If you guys gave a damn about stylistic integrity, you'd have picked a bar in the Meatpacking District.
As I said here, picking places is not my strongest suit, especially because the "cool" places are irritating, change daily, and involve snooty service. I had a bad experience a few years ago with a friend who insisted I pick a bar on the LES to go to. I said, "Uh, Pianos?" and she responded, "Oh my god, what is this, 2003? Ha!" I'd love to have stylistic integrity, but it seems to involve overly loud speaker systems.
Oh, and I'll be done at my "job" at/before 6 that day.
Wait a minute - that comment says "O'Reilly's Irish Pub on 35th b/w 5th and 6th". There is an O'Reilly's Pub in New York, but that is on 31st Street, not 35th. There is also a place named O'Reilly's on 35th but that is O'Reilly's Townhouse. To prevent confusion, let's confirm where we're going.
Also, it would probably be good to get a headcount in this thread so one of us can call ahead and see if they can reserve a table or something. The bar we went to did that for us last time.
5: They get crowded at the bar after work, but tables don't fill up till later. In fact, if you show up with a big group and they can't accomodate, they let you have the whole upper floor to horse around in.
AWB, I couldn't even name a single bar in NYC, much less pick a cool one. But the original Mineshaft was there, y'see, and the unsubtle double entendre, well...
The next time the question of why some people may resent New York comes up, I'm going to bring up these meet-ups.
I figured that was the case but I just wanted to confirm. The NYC crew has a reputation for smoothly-executed meetups, unlike those losers in Chicago.
8: Yes, yes, I got your mockery of the hip scene, but no matter how I try to detach myself from unhipness anxiety, it follows me. Sometimes I miss Cleveland.
Becks, did you have to read every prior post and every comment to get the keys to the kingdom? You have an infinite ability to find and link to the appropriate bit of Unfogged mythos.
She's got apostropher in her back pocket.
10: Hey, when I was meeting people in Chicago, it all went fine.
12 - Another one of my talents, I guess.
I've been to Pianos recently, it's fun. However, I've never claimed to know where hip places are. Last weekend I went to the Delancey, which I think may have been cool recently.
Oh, and some people find the Back Room impressive the first time they go there, and it has a mineshaft worthy name. Despite what the link says, I've never seen anyone famous there.
13 - Apostropher can get into any girl's pants, one way or another.
I once got dragged, screaming, to Schiller's Liquor Bar on a date with a Conde Nast guy. After getting molested in the Whiskey Ward afterward, I decided no more trendy places for me!
Schiller's makes at least one tasty drink (ginger martini). It is otherwise highly annoying.
I was going to forgive them for their reasonably tasty Welsh Rarebit.
If you guys gave a damn about stylistic audacity, you'd have charged the common ground.
(And everyone responded, "Oh my god, what is this, 1983? Ha!")
One of these days, I'll learn not to comment before I've had my morning coffee. Unfortunately for all concerned, today is not that day.
Good morning, other person who is up way too fucking early.
Just to point out -- 5 is egregiously mistaken. The Old Town refused to hold a table for us or indeed, to give us a table at all until we had all arrived. Becks knows this becuase she hung out at the bar with us until we reached critical mass and were able to threaten the wait staff with iminent chaos if they did not seat us.
And good morning, other people who are up way too fucking early. (Hey look at me! I have not drunk any coffee for 3 weeks now and my system is starting to feel a little less stressed out!)
I've been up for two hours and have changed two diapers.
26: Yeah, well, at the time I'd posted I'd been up for an hour and a half after PK woke up writhing and screaming with some kind of horrible migrane (? Will make a doctor's appointment as soon as the office is open). Had kicked Mr. B. out of bed to find the kids' Tylenol while I went downstairs to get some coke for PK, then held him crying on the toilet because his head hurt, then took his temperature (apparently it's not meningitis), and then, once the tylenol kicked in, had deal with him kicking the coke off the side table while trying to crawl behind my head in bed. So take that.
25: The coffee-free are almost as annoying as the ex-smokers.
28: I have a William Burroughs-y relationship with coffee -- periodically quit, then get re-addicted, in the belief that quitting will flush my body of putrescence, replace it with freshness and vigor, and going back to the needle will kill and allow to putrefy the aging, no-longer-vigorous essence. Allow the scum to rise to the top, then repeat.
Anyway, that is the justification I have worked out for living as I do.
horrible migrane
Oh God, I hope he isn't getting migraines. That's the one odd health thing I've been afflicted with, though I only get one or two a year. They are the absolute worst. Will make you think perhaps cutting off your head would be preferable.
I'm sending good mojo PK's way. mojomojomojomojo.
We seem to be no closer to securing a time to meet than ever we were.
32: I will go there after I leave work, which should be between 5 and 5:30, and sit or stand by the bar. This whole "deciding on a time to meet" thing seems a little unnecessary to me because most everybody will be working or going to school and be free in the early evening, like around 6. Those that are not free until later will show up later. Those that are at loose ends during the day will understand not to go there expecting to meet anybody until the early evening, based on the above reasons which hardly need stating. My memory of the last meetup is that enough people were there by 6:30 to be a party, a couple more people came between then and when I left around 9:30, and a couple more people came after I left (if I am to believe the reports).
I too hope it's not a migraine but I guess you'll know soon enough. It takes me it seems all my strength to concentrate and ride them out; drugs are useless. I am terrified at the idea of facing that as a kid.
Anybody remember Joan Didion's description of her first, childhood migraine? essay called "In Bed," in "The White Album." I think her dad was at March Field, and the Air Force doctor prescribed an enema, or some such nonsense.
I've never tried any of the migraine drugs because when I get them, one of the lovely side effects is not being able to keep even water down for more than a couple of minutes. Yeah, I can't imagine dealing with that as a kid (I was in my late 20s when they started) and the thought of watching one of my own kids go through that is even worse. Eek.
Well, I get 'em, so who knows. He's been talking about seeing "flashing lights and colors" for a while now, and today we've got this sudden pain behind his eye "like a thousand suns," and photosensitivity, blah blah blah. It would suck to start getting migraines that young, though. We'll see what the doc says.
As I say, I'll be free around 530 or 6. They'll let us sit without the rest of the party. The rest of you have met before? Am I the only one who will have to wear a silly hat?
Oh, poor kid, and poor you. I don't get migraines, but a good friend does, and they look awful.
37: I don't think a hat will be necessary, I don't think there will be too many polar bears in O'Reailly's of a Wednesday afternoon.
You and I will have to be siblings in silly hatdom, AWB.
I will see by your outfit that you are a cowboy.
White linen would be terribly gauche in March.
36: If he's getting them that young, mightn't there be a cause that can be remedied?
We will know them by their trail of pwned.
It seems that the week I'll be away from SF, when I would have no academic responsibilities, is the week of the noise pop festival. Curse this awful coincidence!
44: well that helps if there is tags and codes, but no so much if it is worlds apart....
urk. 46 was truly awful. forgive me. or forgive for being in this sort of pre-coffee shape so late in the morning. if it helps, i'll blame mogwai.
We'll bring the noise pop to you, Ben.
37: The only other time I've done this, it was pretty easy to find people by looking for the quizzical stares -- everyone who was there already was peering interrogatively at people walking into the bar.
When I got there, I looked straight at Ogged, thought "Hey, that guy looks like a skinny Iranian Chris Noth." Ogged looked right back at me. But then I though--they're downstairs; that can't be right. And I proceeded to wander around confused for another twenty minutes.
Still no shoutouts for me. *pout*
51: Hey, I asked if you were going to fly in from the Fortress of Bridgeplatitude, wherever that may be, to show up and meet us all on the 29th -- if that's not a shoutout, what do you want?
I mean from Ben, on his radio show.
Fortress of Bridgeplatitude
I hear Don't Burn Your Bridges, We'll Cross That Bridge When We Come to It, and It's Water Under the Bridge are holed up in there.
This is the Phoning It In edition, though. Surely you want a more respectable shoutout.
I probably won't be able to make it to the meet-up, unless a miracle happens. Alas.
We understand that flights from your mountaintop citadel in the Andes are few and far between.
When I got there, I went upstairs, waited a moment, and Ogged wandered up the stairs from the gathering at the bar. He studied me up and down, then said, "Are you...looking for someone?" with a Mineshaftey inflection.
After blowing me in the bathroom, he asked me my name, and boy did we have a laugh then.
"probably X unless Y" isn't quite right. More like "probably X, to the extent that not X unless Y".
Such that not X unless Y.
Gah, to a certain extent.
This is way premature, but turns out I'm going to be in Chicago at the end of April for a trial training program. I've completely lost track of who's still around Chicago -- anyone?
Thanks, Ben!
So, it looks like we're shooting for about 6:30, right? I really don't think we're going to have much of a problem meeting up; at least seven of those planning to come have met each other before, we all know what w-lfs-n looks like, and everyone else can simply look for the largish group of slightly awkward collection of cock jokes. Or we could wear our handles on placards around our necks.
Or perhaps some symbolic object -- I could wear a lizard, you a little set of golden plates, Tia a small bottle of coffee liqueur...
J/m, before I ask the following question, I want to admit that I am lame. A lame bigot who is insensitive toward other people's religions. I also want to admit that I frequently treat people of a different background as novelty objects, to be poked and prodded for my own edification and amusement.
Now that we've gotten that out of the way, can you tell me what your reaction was/is to Big Love?
I am not wearing any household appliances around my neck.
65: Mightn't the answer be, "I didn't see it"
It might. But I'd imagine she has thoughts on at least the premise of the show, and the depiction of its characters. Because I'm a bigot who puts people into categories.
At the end of April, I'll be in Nashville, alas. At the end of March, though, I'll be in Chicago. Right now I'm in Houston, believe it or not. There's a rodeo going on. Anyone up for a rodeo meet-up?
I haven't seen it (no TV). The write-ups around the web sound interesting, though. I do like the idea that they're focussing on the emotional dynamics within such an arrangement. The so-called disclaimer that's supposed to distance the family from Mormonism sounds like utter bullshit, of course; from one write-up, rather specifically Mormon language (some version of families' being "eternally sealed") gives away the game. Someone, I think Ezra, pointed out that Chloe Sevigny's character, the whiny middle wife, would probably be shunted aside or greviously harmed in any real polygamous marriage, which really correlate well with misogyny and patriarchy. That is, that polygamy (rather than less institutionalized forms of multiple partnering) seems fairly incompatible with modernity.
There's part of me that is kinda glad that polygamy and polyamory are getting discussed on a national level. But it's also a little strange: it's almost as though the Volokh Conspiracy slippery slope is getting acted out before anyone has really done decent research.
Also: from what I've read, the dramatic set-up seems a little contrived. The main family are the good, emotionally complex polygamists, but lo! a foil! Over here there's a group of fundamentalist, crazed polygamists with a patriarchal cult-like leader! I dunno, perhaps the obvious foil is necessary in TV land, but it sounds annoyingly binary.
I should watch it, though, and get back to you. You also might want to check out some of the Mormon blogs on my site's roll to see how they're reacting.
I'm sorry to make this like an interrogation, but jm, have you ever come across this book? I've heard good things about it.
No, but the synopsis looks great. The legal and political means by which polygamy was eradicated were pretty wild, and gentiles haven't had much of a reason until recently to look into the subject.
I've always wanted to do more serious research into 19th-c Mormon history, but there was always the fear that if I got really into it, I'd want to write and publish on it, and then I'd might get ex-communicated, which would make my grandmother sad.
I saw it on Sunday, and it seemed remarkably Sopranos-like. Head of an unusual family is having trouble keeping it all together, and having specific phychosomatic symptoms associated with such troubles.
The "good" family did seem way too glossed-over.
This is the point at which I have to admit that I'm the only person in America not to have seen a single episode of the Sopranos.
As to the psychosomatic problems, lemme guess: he can't get it up?
I've never seen an episode either.
Hey cool, another club I can join!
Moi aussi. I have also not seen Desperate Housewives. I have, however, to my great shame, seen three episodes of Project Runway.
To your shame? But Project Runway is teh awesome!
It's true. It's nice to see people who really care about their work on TV doing their work, as opposed to incest victims with boob implants trying to get attention for falling in mud.
81: That's a creepy thing to say. I ban myself.
I saw a couple of episodes of Project Runway and thought it was pretty great, precisely for the reasons in 81.
Sopranos is unbelievably good, the only TV show which even arguably compares (and I've seen) is Twin Peaks season 1. Maybe if Scott Lemieux keeps commenting here, and brings over the rest of the LGM crew, I won't be out numbered by non-Sopranos watching weirdos.
(Kid because love, etc.)
Wait - is "incest victim" about Big Love or Project Runway?
w/d, you wouldn't happen to have a tape of the first episode of this season that you could bring to the meetup that I could return to you at a certain place I can find you would you?
I took "incest victim with boob jobs falling in the mud" as a reference to the usual trashy reality shows, like Fear Factor and Road Rules. Project Runway (along with Top Chef, Amazing Race, and Beauty & The Geek) are more of the positive varieties of reality shows.
I used to watch Sopranos, 6FU, etc. but I don't get HBO anymore. I have to settle for the shows on FX.
Isn't "Runway" about becoming a model? "My first binge and purge" and all that?
Just googled it; my mistake. Maybe I dreamed the model show or something.
You're thinking of America's Next Top Model, which used to be positive, but not (much like Real World) has devolved into exploitation. Project Runway is about people competing to be fashion designers. I'm not usually into fashion and stuff but it's really well done.
No, SCMTim, you're thinking America's Next Top Model, or whatever it was called. It was a pretty sad show, in many ways, primary among them being the fact that none of the wanna-be models was actually skinny enough to make it thirty seconds in a real model casting call.
No, there is a model show. I think it is called "America's Next Top Model" or something similarly unimaginative. Never watched but I can't imagine it being anything like Project Runway. (Which does have some rewards available for the models on the show but they are pretty secondary to the designers.)
You might be thinking of America's. Oh, never mind.
It was a pretty sad show, in many ways, primary among them being the fact that none of the wanna-be models was actually skinny enough to make it thirty seconds in a real model casting call.
You're looking at in a glass half-empty way, jm. Half-full: super attractive women feeling vulnerable.
(That's a joke, y'all.)
I wonder if any of them would have advice for me. You see I have this friend who wants to buy a wallaby...
"I was wondering if you could give me some advice. See, my friend over there has to see a man about a horse…"
A professional model told me once, when I was 20 and hanging out in the demi-mondain parisian scene, that I might be able to model if I lost maybe 5 kg. I weighed 51 kg at the time. I just did the conversions. I weighed 112.43 pounds, and minus 5 kg would be 102.41. I was and remain 5'8". That's the kind of reality that you'd be prosecuted for showing on American TV.
5'8" and you weighed 112 lbs?
That's insane.
After meeting Jackm, I can see it as a concievably healthy weight for her -- she has a very small frame. I'm slightly shorter, and would need to remove a leg to get to that weight.
It wasn't a healthy weight for me. I have a small-medium frame, but any time I've gotten below 120, it's because I wasn't really eating much.
Eh. I'm a little indifferent to the plight of models. It's akin to athletes who jack up their bodies for roughly the same reasons (cash and money). If they get the cash, then they made trade that might not be so crazy. I do feel sorry for the people in each group who fuck up their bodies and fail to achieve the career they want. But even then, not that sorry.
I am in Chicago, LB, as is Kosko, I think. I was out all day.
To a certain extent, SCMTim, that was my point. Since the real underage anorexic horror of professional models is beyond the pale of network TV, America's Net Top Model (or whatever it is) presents a moderated version of it with which we can emotionally identify. Don't pay any attention to what goes into the photographs in the average Vogue, which many women read; of course we all know that's not how clothes should look, and none of us feel inadequate for not looking like that.
LB, where will you be staying? Are they going to be putting you up in one of the residence motels like Marriot Suites? or are you going to be downtown all the time?
In a Hyatt downtown someplace. I'd be up for drinks or something with you, Kotsko, and anyone else from Chicagoland, if the training schedule permits it; I'll post again when I know exactly when I'll be there.
I had a collision with a woman who had worked a bit as a model; she was 5'8", and I heard a lot about how that had made it impossible for her to have a successful career. (My own slight vertical impairment, and our mutual insecurities or intolerance of insecurity on that score, contributed to my using the word "collision".)