I sent the link to Buck, who's generally solid on the computer shopping front. If he's got useful info, I'll pass it along.
If I have 256 MB of RAM, will my computer be really slow?
Nah, not really. I have 256 MB on my Mac, just because I haven't gotten around to upgrading, and it's fine as long as I don't run 8 program at once (which I tend to do anyway).
Oh, but it has no ports. That means no external hard drive, I guess.
3 -- does the red box on that page that says "SOLD OUT" mean it is no longer available? I seem to remember hearing that H/P notebooks are good. But not where I heard this or any qualitative information.
(Also the line that says "Shipping: Sold Out" seems to confirm that it's not available.)
I notice both computers have Microsoft Works rather than Microsoft Office. I haven't touched Works since the days of Windows 98, but my experience of it then was that it sucked, and if you needed to exchange documents with someone using Word it was a pain in the butt. Don't know if the Works suite has improved since then.
A solution to this would be to install something like Open Office (which I also have not used in quite a while.)
I think you can maybe get it from the actual Best Buy stores. My old computer didn't have Word either. I'll just download OO.
Get a Mac. I'm sure (ahem) somebody 'round here could give you PS7. Also, RAM is dirt cheap. No reason not to max it out.
7 -- I find it very puzzling that computers and software are no longer sold separately.
Oh, but it has no ports. That means no external hard drive, I guess.
Look for the USB 2.0 and IEEE 1484 FireWire ports. Most exteral hard drive these days would connect via those.
Microsoft Works doesn't. Neither does AppleWorks.
Tia, are you set on getting a laptop? You could get a desktop for much cheaper, still watch DVDs, and then maybe be able to go to your friend's wedding.
I have an iBook G4 (12") for about 2.5 years that I've been quite happy with. Macs are more expensive, though, generally, both for the initial purchase and for software. And there are no cheap games, ever, if you like games.
But they're very popular at the Caladepartment.
I've found that 256 MB of RAM isn't really enough for me because I always have a lot of things open at once (chat, several browser tabs, itunes, rss reader, etc.) Also, bumping up the RAM is a really cost-effective way of making your computer a lot faster (though my experience is with desktops--I don't know how easy/cheap it is to upgrade on a laptop).
If you look around for deals online, you can get a decently large external hard drive for around $100.
Dealnews.com lists lots of computer sales, usually from online vendors. The cheapest Windows laptops are about $400. The cheap ones might not have the ports you need; the laptop in the Best Buy ad had USB 2.0 and Firewire. Can you connect an external hard drive to those?
I have an older Apple iBook and plan to buy another someday, but they're much more expensive than Windows: the new Intel MacBooks retail for around $1100. Even a refurbished G4 iBook (1GHz) costs around $600.
The cheapest Windows laptops are about $400.
Unfortunately, you also get what you pay for. If you're lucky.
Also might be worth checking out the refurbs at Costco. They're pretty good at standing behind their stuff.
I want an Intel MacBook so I can play games.
Playing games on a laptop (of any flavor) is a pretty suboptimal gaming experience.
I find it very puzzling that computers and software are no longer sold separately.
They still are, they just charge you more.
18: She should run Linux on it.
[/w-lfs-n]
Also check out the sale page on the Apple site, which has refurbs and previous generation models at discounted prices.
Full Disclosure: I am an Intel Product Dealer.
You absolutely must have at least 1GB of RAM (2 x 512MB SO-DIMM modules) and should strongly consider getting 2GB (2 x 1GB SO-DIMMs) running in a Centrino Core Duo platform. The sweet spot (value/performance) for the CPU is the Intel Core Duo T2400 (1.83GHz). The Core Duo requires the Intel 945 chipset. The performance difference between 256MB and 1GB is astounding. The difference between 1GB and 2GB is the difference between a machine which will run Vista badly and one which will run Vista tolerably.
NOTE: The current generation of Intel Core Duo mobile processors are of the Conroe family. They will soon be supplanted by the Merom family, a small but distinct improvement in technology. Google to learn more.
The only remaining considerations, in my opinion, are:
1) the form-factor, ie: Ultra-Portable; Thin and Light; Multimedia; or Desktop Replacement. The variables there are primarily screen size, weight, battery life and of course cost;
2) integrated or seperate video display adapter. I recommend a non-integrated solution, either nVidia or ATI, it doesn't really matter too much which because both are vast improvements over the typical Intel integrated graphics solution. This is more important in graphics intensive situations like running Photoshp, Games and Watching DVD movies;
3) optical drive; DVD-RW or not. I suggest yes. Screen Resolution: I prefer a higher resolution to increase screen real estate while others can't easily read normal fonts at anything higher than 1280 x 768. YMMV: connectivity: wi-fi a/b/g/ is a given as is Gigabit LAN but do you need Bluetooth? Media card readers? A built-in Web Cam? etc; and finally
4) The difference between having a 7200RPM HDD and anything less is nothing short of remarkable. Also, a SATA HDD is preferable to a PATA HDD.
Go to Directron.com (or similar sites) and do some comparisons among configurable notebooks, check out their warranties and dead pixel replacement guarantees.
A general Note: You should expect to pay approximately $1200-1500 for a notebook you will be happy to own three years from now. Buy for the future, not just for tomorrow.
HTH
I strongly recommend the iBook for price. The one drawback I ever found is, they've deliberately crippled the iBook so you can't have separate images on the laptop screen and on an external monitor, which is a disadvantage if you do presentations. But you can work around that with various hacks if you need to.
I am doing a project on Mac currently with all open-source or otherwise free software (except the operating system). I think it's quite possible nowadays to do without Microsoft Office.
Aaron Adams: perhaps someone with your expertise will be able to answer a question I've carried around for a while: what is it with power supply cables for IBM laptops? The plug just gets loose and there is nothing you can do about it besides hold the notebook carefully aligned while it's charging. Is this a common problem? Any way to fix it? I was thinking about judiciously applying epoxy to the end of the male plug to change its shape but have not done so yet.
24: Slolernr, do you recommend the Intel MacBook specifically, or would a G4 be okay?
re: 25 I get the same problem, although I suspect it's because I'm careless and I've torqued the plug too much.
Clownęsthesiologist
Newer notebooks don't have this problem so much but many earlier notebooks (IBMs being the most egregious example) share the problem. I have successfully used strategically applied velcro as an effective (and less tacky than Duct-Tape) remedy.
I enthusiastically recommend getting a Mac. An iBook sounds like it should be in the ballpark for what you want, and as 'postropher says, max out the RAM if you can.
Apple's refurbs are often a very good deal.
would a G4 be okay?
I was actually thinking of a G4. Although I'm in many respects the model early adopter, I've avoided an Intel Mac, preferring to let others be the guinea pigs. (Also, I've no disposable income at the moment.) I think to this point, anyway, there's no drawback to running a G4. The OS is still geared very nicely to it, as is all relevant software. There will of course come a day when people stop offering G4 upgrades, or at least start thinking in terms of optimizing for Intel and hang the G4. But that day does not seem to have come yet.
slolernr: deliberately crippled the iBook so you can't have separate images on the laptop screen and on an external monitor
The good news is that this is no longer the case on the new MacBooks! The bad news is that complicates my decision making processes in the coming future.
Thanks for the advice; this is all really confusing to me, but I think both of my last two laptop purchases were really unintelligent, so I'm trying to do better this time.
Asberger's guy is telling me in email I should get a computer with an AMD processor, because it is cheaper. Does anyone have an opinion on this?
Cala, I am set on getting a laptop. I don't even have the space to set up a desktop workstation in my room, and I not infrequently spend the night at other people's houses, etc.
FWIW, Josh Marshall recently bought his first Mac and says he now prefers it.
It was the power supply that broke on my computer. But the power supply is integrated with the motherboard, so it needs a new motherboard.
Was just curious, Tia. I love my laptop and really need the portability, but desktops are generally cheaper. (Also, I you sure you're not my sister? I swear I had this conversation with her yesterday.)
30: My G4 is nearly three years old at this point but isn't really showing its age. (Better get me through the next two years, dammit.) I'm not sure how fast Apple is planning on dropping support for it, but if it's a while off, the G4 is certainly workable now.
I not infrequently spend the night at other people's houses
Tia is teh shameless hussy!
Didn't we recently establish that we were born very close to each other, and were conceived close to our parents' wedding nights?
Okay, I feel like I have two sets of options:
1) get an ibook. This would require buying the ibook from apple itself, because I can't do the cash outlay all at once and would need an installment plan, and I'm pretty sure apple offers it. (I could maybe theoretically still go to my friend's wedding if I did this.)
2)get one of those AMD processor computers Asperger's guy recommended. He's right that they seem a lot cheaper. Here, here, here, and here are samples.
Don't mind me; I'm just talking through my options.
Tia, you can also get a refurb MacBook like I did earlier this month. These are the most current models, and feature the Intel dual core that Aaron Adams mentioned above. Mine was $949, and it came directly from the Mac store, where you could get the same financing they offer for their new computers. But then again, if you're paying in installments, you might as well get a new model; $10 or so extra per month isn't much.
Tia,
Don't you work for a university or some sort of education institution. Apple provides excellent educational discounts. You may be able to get a deal on a PC that way too, and you're likely going to get better service options.
Yeah, BG, my coworker just pointed that out to me. Thanks.
Dell also offers educational discounts, but then everyone says that Dell laptops are from Satan. Mine has been fine, though--well, mostly--and I bought it in late 2000.
I'm typing this on the Dell laptop I pulled out of a dumpster.
AMD vs Intel Core Duo
Go with the AMD if you perfer a lower performing, hotter lower battery life notebook; otherwise go with the Intel.
If you perfer doing more than one thing at a time (for instance: opening email while blogging and surfing the internet and downloading/playing a video) then go with the Intel Core Duo; if you tend to doi things more sequentially and price is a major object, still go with the Intel.
Don't take my word for it: Read some technical reviews/comparisons at anandtech.com and tomshardware.com.
Also: The Intel Core Duo is Intel's dual-core MOBILE processor. The Intel Core 2 Duo is Intel's latest generation dual-core DESKTOP processor.
Tia, you could be my alternate universe sister. Except without a moustache.
Apple offers a very nice installment plan. Usually the educational discounts are around $100 off the price (which I ended up just putting into more memory.)
Speaking of, I need to get a memory upgrade before too long. I only have 512MB. Which is obviously a disaster.
44 Aaron, I am confused. Tom's hardware seems to prefer AMD:
http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/04/24/dual_core_intel_processors_for_low/
The low end of the MacBook line is a sweet deal. Buy some extra RAM from a third-party dealer online; no reason to have less than 1 gig, and really why not 2? I just got an Intel iMac at work and it's faster than the non-Intel ones I've used. Slightly glitchier, although much smoother than Windows, and the glitches have been getting fewere with each software update. (The problems are mostly when I'm running MS Office, which is not yet native code for the Intel Mac environment.)
So what if I got this computer?
Does this--
512MB of 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM (PC2-5300) on two SO-DIMMs, supports up to 2GB
--mean I can change the memory card later? Realistically I never would, though.
49: Tia, you'd better hurry up and buy that computer. I'd love to be buying it myself, which I take as an indicator that it's going to go fast.
Get a Mac G4 refurb. Anything else ain't good enough.
Get a Mac G4 refurb. Anything else ain't good enough for a girl like you.
49: Yeah, you can change the memory later. And 512 MB will run the computer fine, especially if you don't have a lot of programs open at once, and especially (on the Intel Mac) if you don't use a lot of programs that were written for the pre-Intel Mac (PowerPC). For most people, that means the current MS Office, although that's supposed to come out in a native Intel-Mac (Apple calls it a "Universal Binary") form at some point.
Refurbished is not a bad idea, although it's probably about the same as an educational discount.
I buy IBM / Lenovo thinkpads, often secondhand, because for the stuff I do -- writing, reading, and organising photographs -- they are powerful enough. They're also very well built and spares are widely available. They tend to be cheaper, for the same level of performance, than Macs, and I'm mean. But of course buying second hand means that you can't get the money lent you so this may be useless information. If it isn't, the X series thinkpads are gloriously small and light: an X40 with an external drive is hardly bulkier than a big legal pad.
OpenOffice on Macs is still a bit of a mess. It's fine on Windows, though. If you're going to run it comfortably, you'll need at least 512mb of memory.
pirate peet
That is a review of DESKTOP processors. Also it is somewhat out-of-date (April).
So I checked with my university computer store, and the educational discount is not as good as the discount for getting a refurb, so I'd pay about 100 more for the same computer. I'd also get an ipod nano, but whatevs, I don't have 100 dollars to be throwing around on piddling little mp3 players. So I think I'm just going to get the refurbished Mac I linked to, unless anyone wants to shout "Noooo" before I click the purchase button.
It costs $949. Here are its specs if you can't click the link:
Processor 1.83GHz Intel Core Duo
L2 Cache 2MB
System bus 667MHz
Memory 512MB of 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM (PC2-5300) on two SO-DIMMs, supports up to 2GB
Hard drive 60GB 5400-rpm Serial ATA
Optical drive Slot-loading Combo drive (DVD-ROM/CD-RW)
Graphics Intel GMA 950 graphics processor with 64MB of DDR2 SDRAM shared with main memory
Video camera Built-in iSight
Display 13.3-inch (diagonal) glossy TFT widescreen display, 1280 x 800 resolution
Ports One FireWire 400 port (8 watts); Two USB 2.0 ports (up to 480 Mbps); Mini-DVI port with support for DVI, VGA, S-video and composite video output (requires adapters, sold separately)
Audio Built-in stereo speakers, built-in omnidirectional microphone, combined optical digital audio input/audio line in, combined optical digital audio output/headphone out
Networking Built-in 10/100/1000BASE-T (Gigabit)
Wireless Built-in 54 Mbps AirPort Extreme Wi-Fi (802.11g); built-in Bluetooth 2.0+EDR (Enhanced Data Rate) module.
Height 1.08 inches (2.75 cm)
Width 12.78 inches (32.5 cm)
Depth 8.92 inches (22.7 cm)
Weight 5.2 pounds (2.36 kg)
Also, I decided I'm going to do it in one lump sum. My bank has an interest free 1000 dollar line of credit if I really need it.
I hope you all have enjoyed your window into this fascinating drama. Not everyone gets a front row seat to Tia's life.
Woo-hoo! New computer for Tia!
Noooo!!!
Seriously, you'll love having a Mac once you get used to the differences in the OS. Congratulations on drinking the Kool-Aid.
Hey guess what? After contemplating the four weeks it was going to take my computer to get here, I decided to reconsider the university store option. Then I realized I had forgotten to ask about the price of the warranty, and I found out it was seventy dollars cheaper, so that meant it was thirty extra dollars to have a brand new computer sooner, and to get the rebate on the ipod. Then I found out my U was doing a promotion offering an extra 512 megs of RAM, so it was 30 dollars to have it sooner, get the ipod rebate, and get the extra RAM. So I canceled my order for the refurb and I'm getting my brand new puter next week. Even though I am really poor right now, I decided to buy the 30 gig ipod, because this is my only chance to get the rebate and 1 gig is just puny. It was 90 dollars extra to get a normal 30 gig ipod.