"The L Word" references--hey, why isn't ogged watching that?
Keep up, Al.
I'm so sorry Labs isn't around to talk about Buck Angel.
From the Wikipedia article:
The first phalloplasty done for the purposes of sexual reassignment was preformed in 1958 by Dr. Judy T. Wu in the Soviet city of Bratsk
What an amazing fact! Complicates the image of technical backwardness and reactionary prudery I have of Soviet society/medicine, left over in my case no doubt from subtle propaganda heard in childhood.
I know, ever since Labs won that fucking contest it's like he's above us all or something. I hang my head in shame at my comparatively sketchy knowledge of ogged's viewing habits, but I'm glad to hear the cast is hott.
to 2: yeah, isn't that amazing? Dr. Judy T. Wu of Bratsk is my new hero. when the soviets set out to create a new man they didn't fuck around.
FWIW: I remember seeing an episode of "Taxi Confessions" in which a MTF transexual said that she wasn't going to have the reassignment surgery because her friends who had done it regreted it. Life must be so tough for people who feel they're in a wrongly gendered body.
I've thought of that too; what if you regretted it? on the whole, though, science is great because there must always have been people who felt this way, and now they can be remade more to their liking.
Anyway, the main thing I was thinking was, damn, they make some realistic looking dudes out of lesbians these days!
The pictures certainly have a "straight" affect, particularly the last one, in the hallway. Whether that's just picture selection because of the article's message, or an accurate reflection of the way these guys are, I don't know. If the latter, very interesting.
All I can say is, the lesbians' loss is the straight chicks' gain. Bring on the guys who used to be women!
A listen to the Dresden Dolls' "Sex Changes" is required for this thread.
Aside from shared understanding, realizing a dream of understanding both sides as old as the Greeks, and the implicit promise that an engineered future may succeed in surpassing mere natural endowment, are you thinking of any other attractions?
Of course, I myself first listened to that song yesterday. And then I bought this album on the strength of the first two tracks.
what if you regretted it?
The only thing I remember from some Fassbinder film I watched decades ago was a substory about MTF transexual who had been a gay man. He fell in love with the villain of the piece, who said "too bad you're not a woman", so the character had a sex change, and then the villain said he wasn't attracted to him as a woman either. So the broken-hearted transexual went back to cruising gays in the park, which was the sort of thing he really preferred, apart from his infatuation with the villain, but now he would sometimes get beat up when his partners found out he was a woman.
I wonder if the percentage of satisfied FTM transexuals is different from the percentage of satisfied MTF transexuals. It's easier for me to imagine the long-term benefits of the FTM transformation.
8 gets it exactly right. Hear hear, and my thoughts exactly.
8, 14: You're worried that without artificial measures there'll be a shortage of guys?
There seems to me to be an over-supply of us whenever I try to get on the fucking subway but perhaps I'm missing the big picture.
The fucking subway?! Whoo-whee, where's that train? Damn and this whole time I've been taking the A,C,E.
I recommend the U2 shortly before a game at the olympic stadium; there's sure to be a crowd of meatheads chanting and beating the top of the car.
Eh. It sounds pretty good but like I said it's kind of a sausagefest.
15: No, we're worried about the shortage of men who aren't annoying.
Someone told me that in NYC there are significantly more women than men. Can't verify that though.
I've never noticed more men than women on the trains.
I've never noticed more men than women on the trains.
Didn't mean to suggest there were. I meant "trains" to stand for "crowded places generally."
And I meant "oversupply of men" insofar as I meant anything at all to stand for "oversupply of people."
Except for the fucking subway, which really does have too many men, even on women-ride-free Mondays, and gets pretty awkward sometimes.
Felix, why do you hate men?
I think everyone's pretty sick of you feminists and your men-aren't-so-bad-really attitude, actually.
I meant "oversupply of men" insofar as I meant anything at all to stand for "oversupply of people."
Mm-hm.
(But I want to have 24 tattooed on my arm or something.)
I want to have 24 tattooed on my arm or something
Cool! Jack Bauer's my hero too.
I've never seen that show, actually. You know. Because the main character has a penis. And really, I'm just so sick of those.
23: "train"="subway" in NYC.
"women ride free Mondays"? Where do you live?
Because the main character has a penis. And really, I'm just so sick of those.
I am so confused. I thought feminists in general had no problem with men with penises, I thought it was men with balls they objected to.
[runs, hides, waving his "it's just a joke, really" flag]
I thought it was men with balls they objected to. [runs, hides, waving his "it's just a joke, really" flag]
Well, you've got nothing to worry about, obviously.
Because the main character has a penis. And really, I'm just so sick of those.
And now there's going to be even more of 'em! Cyborg penises with hinges and rods and things! All just running round loose and un-attached.
I am opposed to this whole phalloplasty business. This kind of thing is how Terminator got started. Who do I write to to have it stopped?
"women ride free Mondays"? Where do you live?
It would be a lie to tell you that a ride on the fucking-subway is altogether free of cost for anyone.
Well, you've got nothing to worry about, obviously.
I do too have balls. My wife keeps them in her purse someplace, I think.
33: It's like we're speaking parallel languages. I understand all the words in your comments but still I have no idea what you're talking about.
And thank god I've never had to ride the fucking-subway. I've just ridden the clipping-fingernails-subway and the cracking-gum-loudly subway.
And thank god I've never had to ride the fucking-subway. I've just ridden the clipping-fingernails-subway and the cracking-gum-loudly subway.
The fucking-subway sounds uncomfortable. I ride the stand there and daydream for 15 minutes subway. It's not bad.
I once read a really hot porn story about anonymous fucking on the subway.
It's sounds very uncomfortable. I'd have to avert my eyes during the whole 40-minute commute.
37: On an empty car? Under a blanket? In front of the other passengers?
Empty car, light bondage (being tied to the overhead handles). Other people could see only as they pulled through stations. It was not politically correct.
35: The fucking-subway thing is me running into the ground a joke introduced by Kissing Cigarettes in 16, where she humorously misunderstood my use of the phrase "fucking subway" (meaning "bloody/goddamn/etc subway") as meaning that there was a sort of orgy subway, a fucking-subway, which she was excited to learn about because it was more interesting than the A,C,E, which she rides presently. Unless I've misunderstood her comment; either way that was the joke of my subsequent fucking-subway references. I imagine it as having red velvet curtains on the windows and a mirrorball in every car. Hence "women-ride-free Mondays;" just as meat-market pubs and clubs will often waive the cover charges for women on certain days because otherwise the balance is off. Hence also in fact the ride is not really free, because . . .
I amuse myself; that's the important thing.
All subways, by definition, run into the ground.
Ohhhhhh.
With crap reading-comp skills like that, you'd never know I got 800 on the verbal part of the GRE. My quality, sadly, seems to have deteriorated over the years.
I'm considering having Subway™ for lunch. Footlong or six-inch? It's so hard to decide sometimes...
Does it matter? All their sandwiches taste exactly the same.
crap reading-comp skills
I'm pretty sure it was mostly my fault. I was being obscure. I was too deeply entranced by the image of the orgy-subway to imagine that anyone else wasn't on the same page.
All subways, by definition, run into the ground.
?? I don't get it.
Footlong or six-inch? It's so hard to decide sometimes...
ATM
Subways. Go under ground. "In" the ground, if you will. They run. Into. The ground. Hence the "sub" part.
The joke wasn't obscure at all. Maybe DA needs more coffee?
Does it matter? All their sandwiches taste exactly the same.
Yeah, I decided I'm going to this local joint instead for a greasy-but-delicious veggie burger. Unfortunately, there's no discernible cock joke there.
I've found that I can generally eat about 9" of a Subway™ sandwich. I don't go there much.
I really can't tell if these are intentional double-entendres or not.
I've run out of coffee and have to settle for tea. That could be the problem.
Does it matter? All their sandwiches taste exactly the same.
I believed the same thing, once upon a time. But I was so, so wrong. As fast food goes, Subway is one of the best. The steak and cheese isn't a cheesesteak sandwich, but it's a better substitute than most things you're going to find outside of the the N.E. states. Also, though unrelated, why does Beyerstein rule uber alles, and why am I so late in realizing that?
As fast food goes, Subway is one of the best.
That is such a low, low, low bar.
You know, b, there are places where your dining options are essentially constrained to fast food.
Road trips in the US would be perfect if it weren't for the food.
Yeah, Teo, I know this. It fucking sucks.
55 is exactly right. As I get older, I'm more and more about pulling off the highway and poking around looking for a restaurant somewhere.
Road trips in the US would be perfect if it weren't for the food.
This is so very wrong. Happiness is knowing you're never more than 30 miles from McNuggets.
56: But that's not a safe bet either. I don't know how many times I've gone to a restaurant and ordered something with mushrooms in it, only to remember when I got my food that FUCK! oh yeah, "mushrooms" means "canned mushrooms" anywhere outside heavily urban areas.
And what's with the popularity of non-dairy creamer in so much of the US?
Weirdest chain restaurant in the country?
Skyline Chili.
Hands down.
No, #57 is basically right. Happiness is knowing that where there are McNuggets, there may be an Arby's, a Taco Bell, or even a Carl's Jr. But at least B explains her position: As I get older, I'm more and more about pulling off the highway and poking around looking for a restaurant somewhere.
Subways. Go under ground. "In" the ground, if you will. They run. Into. The ground. Hence the "sub" part.
So here's the thing: I was joking in 46 about not getting your joke in 42 (which I enjoyed) in keeping with the emerging theme of joke-ungetting. But now how can I be sure whether you are joking in 48 about not getting my joke, or just not getting it? And furthermore how will you know whether I'm serious here or not? I should have thought ahead; I see no way out now. No way out but the tomb.
I'm going to have a nap now.
62: Your humor is too esoteric for us.
57 is right in the sense that yes, happiness is living somewhere where food is plentiful enough that crap like McNuggets is around to be scorned, yes. But it's deeply right in the sense that McNuggets and the rest of the scornful crap that passes for fast "food" is not deeply, deeply depressing.
62: No way out but through the tunnel, you mean.
37, 40 -- I think the subway is a popular setting for pornography. There is a pretty hott fiction floating around the internet in which the authoress is coming home from work on a crowded train, hot, tired, starved for affection, when the lights go out and the train stops in the tunnel -- hijincks ensue -- and a similar setup where the authoress is sitting on a crowded train mesmerized by the man standing in front of her, whose meat she observes stiffening -- they abscond from the train at the next stop and make whoopee in the empty station.
43 -- WTF? I thought you, as a Canadian, were free from the tyranny of ETS.
Stop being mean to Felix, people. He wants to give laughter to the world.
I'm done with that "Subway is the best available fast food" schtick: too disgusted too often.
Ordinary american diner food, available in small towns, is something I almost always prefer. If you travel the same way several times, you can build up a knowledge of where to stop.
What's wrong with "authoress"? It's a word ain't it? I thought it was anyway...
67: Go to an American Grad School you must take the GRE, no?
Mebbe I meant "narratrix"...
69a: And other fast food isn't disgusting?
69b: Exactly right.
74 -- I'm not disgusted by Chipotle.
Subway is way over the line for me though, and from time to time I find myself in a place (a) with very narrow options [Subway, McD, and a cafeteria with decent Middle American hot meals, fully stocked salad bar, $3.50 prix fixe] where (b) everyone in the group has to go the same place for lunch. I practically have to stand in the street in front of the bus every dayto keep from eating at Subway.
Okay, I'll grant that Chipotle is better than most fast food (although the association with McD's is kind of icky), but it's not very widespread. Subway is everywhere and you have a great deal of control over what you get, which is why people with various dietary restrictions like it. Personally I very rarely eat fast food; I once had ice cream for dinner rather than eat at McD's (this was at a MassPike service plaza). If possible, I try to stop at diners and similar local restaurants.
76 -- Me too. To be fair, none of the folks on the bus [in 75] are arguing for McD -- they're just willing to go to Subway. It's not a very good Subway, either. Low turnover of ingredients, much less than the full menu.
There is a long passage in Chapter 11 Look at Me -- I was going to quote it but couldn't pick out a small enough bit -- describing "Michael West"'s first visit to McDonald's, that brought back a strong recollection for me of my last visit to Mickey D's, which was in the late 90's after several years of not eating there. I felt drawn to it, like I wanted to refresh my experience of American fast food, like I was losing some connection to my childhood. Well here is the bit that really hits me, midway through the passage: "His first thought was that it didn't look big enough, it was squashed, pelletlike, the meat gray and incidental; was this really a Big Mac or had they given him something inferior? Then his own thoughts sickened him -- greed, individualism -- and he lifted the thing to his mouth and jammed half inside. ¶He couldn't taste anything at first, could only think it would never go down, he would choke to death on this gray sweetness, dry and sticky; he tried to swallow, ... He ate a french fry, breathing hard, sweat on his face, then shoved the second half of Big Mac into his mouth, loosening its airless compression with a slug of Coca-Cola, his body braced for the surge of rage that would galvanize his dead insides when this affront reached them, an explosion that would shove it all back up. But nothing happened. He sat there... feeling the lump of food dissolve and become part of him..."
IDP is right -- I had to take the GRE to get into school here. The only university in Canada that requires the GRE is McGill, if I'm not mistaken.
65: This reminded me [shudder] of a horrible scene from the novel, Sophie's Choice. No more subway sex stories, please.
Unless they involve 12" things full of fresh ingredients.
There's a story, probably apocryphal, about the first opening of the first McDonalds in Moscow that as some lines grew longer than others new arrivals began to join the longest lines under the assumption that, as had been the case under the Soviet regime, the longer lines were usually for the higher quality goods, until someone finally came out and announced to everyone that each cashier was serving exactly the same thing.
One other thing about the subways -- sorry da -- are any of you familiar with the connection in Grand Central Stn. between the 7 train and the 4,5,6? That tunnel always makes me feel like I'm in the sperm scene in Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Sex (But Were Afraid to Ask.
McDonald's is crap, sure. But Hardee's is fast food perfection.
You're the reason Democrats keep losing, B.
I once got busy in a Burger King bathroom.
You're the reason Democrats keep losing, B.
I'm so glad you're here, apostropher. I was going to get into it with these...people about the various fast food chains and what to order where, but that's like wasting bacon on a muslim, you know?
Democrats keep losing because I prefer to eat at locally owned joints? I don't think so, buddy.
No, that's why the terrorists are winning. The Democrats are losing thanks to your badmouthing of fast food. Commie.
Keep turning your nose up at places other people eat regularly, missy. Bitch Lieberman.
I stopped eating most fast food. I just get pizza. Nearly every place has a pizza joint. Some of them suck, but it's not McDonald's. And when traveling, there's always a chance that you'll find some little-noticed local treasure and get real pizza. No risk of such ephipanies when 'eating' at McDonald's.
B should take this a step further and start badmouthing Hamburger Quick for not being as good as locally owned European (usually Francophone, I believe) restaurants.
re: 2
The Soviets were always fairly innovative surgeons. Even to this day, they carry out orthopedic surgery that's beyond what's routinely done in the West. Russian surgeons will repair severely fractured limbs -- due to crush injuries, for example -- that are routinely amputated in the West.
The 'Soviets as backward' meme was always propaganda. Solid state electronics may have lagged behind the West, for example, but in lots of other areas they were innovators.
Allright, you all-American patriotic fast food junkies, listen the fuck up: I know that shit sucks because I eat it all the goddamn time. Because I live in fucking hell, that's why.
So bite me.
See? I taste like rancid grease. Mmm, mmm, fucking good. Choke on it.
95: That's like saying you dislike potatoes.
Somewhat related: What it feels like to have two vaginas. And the picture that accompanied the article.
No, potatoes are good in most forms. Pizza, eh.
Except of course for that fancy gourmet pizza with goat cheese or that kind of thing, natch.
(But I want to have 24 tattooed on my arm or something.)
Or 27.
That's a pretty 27. I have a friend who has a question mark tattooed above her right breast. Similar effect.
I have a food-related question: when someone says they're taking you to a Mediterranean restaurant, what does that mean to you?
I'm particularly interested in what midwesterners have to say about this.
I worked with a woman at my last job who had two vaginas. She talked about it every time she got drunk. This is a completely true story.
Because I live in fucking hell
That's not authentic American fast food in hell, B.
I taste like rancid grease.
No, you taste like chicken.
Mediterranean restaurant
I think it will be an Italian-y restaurant, but without the red sauce -- most dishes will include pasta and olive oil. Lots of roast vegetables on offer. Chicken will likely feature prominently on the menu, and there will be dishes with asparagus and a lot of salads. Decor will be dominated by yellows and golds.
a Mediterranean restaurant, what does that mean to you?
The folks in the kitchen don't speak English. No wait, that's just restaurants in general.
a Mediterranean restaurant, what does that mean to you?
Greek. If said with a wink and a nudge, Mineshaft.
95: Get off our planet, alien. We don't need your filthy, alien, non-pizza-liking kind around here. We're a decent species, not like you, alien.
97: When I first read your link, my first thought was 'where does she find the room?', but then I found out by reading that it's an internal bifurcation. One vulva, two vaginas, which I think is an excellent way to describe the difference and educate people on the proper use of these important and more-precise-than-usually-imagined words.
104: Actually, I'm given to understand that like the rest of us, she tastes like pork. Except, as per 95, she's an alien, so she probably does taste like chicken after all.
Does this double vagina thing mean two periods as well? If so, are they in sync with each other? Anyone know?
The Biophysicist confirms my thinking that periods would be in sync; the controlling hormones are in the blood stream.
Unless she has two bloodstreams and two bodies, in which case having two uteri is to be expected.
[The Biophysicist's specialty was fetal reseach, in case anyone wondered why he might know this.]
We have to admire apo for cagily sneaking in a reference to snakes not on a plane into a discussion of genitalia.
Hmmm - now that you mention it, I wonder if my diphallus has anything to do with us having twins.
'Pon Olympus, beyond the wine dark sea,
Two immortals did hear an earthly jest,
Concerning gender, from the bourgeoisie.
So one sought to vex those who transgressed.
Quoth Hermes: "To these whom we have so blessed,
"With victuals and viands opulent,
"We now shall curse till they are quite depressed:
"All of their food shall lack both taste and scent."
But Aphrodite, making her dissent,
Said: "You are harsh in meting out their fate,
"So here will be the halt to punishment:
"At Subway each must sup and clean their plate."
Thus Subway soon undid bold Hermes' curse,
Lacking their senses, how could they do worse?
Ah, the tried and true "Might I picke thee up with a sonnet?" come-on. But will it work tonight?
93: I know that ttaM, about Soviet science, or else I wouldn't have phrased it that way in 2. I know for instance that facial reconstruction was far more advanced in Russia during WWII, for instance. It's true in every field I know something about, that they did some things better, some things not as well, and some things merely different.
But even someone like me, who grew up knowing better, still needs to contend against an atmosphere, against unconsciously assimilated notions. LIke some other notions we constantly talk about around here.
115: You've all seen my sonnets, now perhaps you'd like to come up to my rooms and inspect my etchings?
Bphd doesn't like pizza? WTF? Isn't that a capital offense?
118 is the most artful variant on the extremely distasteful euphemism "gash" I've yet encountered.
Is "gash" really a euphemism, when it's so much more offensive than almost any other word one can think of for the thing to which it refers?
More artful than "Love Canal"? By the way, I'd forgotten that Love Canal was polluted by Hooker Chemical.
114: Excuse me, I need to go take a cold shower.
121: yes, it's more of a dysphemism, really
a Mediterranean restaurant, what does that mean to you?
Late to the game, but it might mean French Meditteranean, Spanish, Moroccan, Lebanese, Turkish, Greek, but probably not Italian. Cuz if you're going to an Italian place, why not just say so?
I believe Mediterranean Restaurant = Greek Restaurant = Turkish Restaurant = Middle Eastern Restaurant = Lebanese Restaurant. I've never heard of a Moroccan restaurant.
I've never heard of a Moroccan restaurant.
And yet they exist. Park Terrace Bistro up in LB's nabe, for instance.
Hey, I went to a moroccan restaurant here about five or so weeks ago and it was great, so don't go claiming there are no such.
127: Excellent food, and the owners are lovely, lovely people.
One of the best meals I ever had was in a Morrocan restaurant in Amsterdam. It was just a standard lamb tagine with couscous and some kofte, but it was amazing.
I also have a couple of Morrocan cookbooks. It's a pretty prominent 'cuisine'.
Both times I've been to The Barbary Fig (the restaurant linked above), it's been excellent.
Ugh, late to this thread, but can I just add that as someone who's very tuned into the lesbian community in SF, I've NEVER heard of this issue being anything close to a "bitter debate"? I hate the NYT Sunday Styles section. (And hate that I can't seem to stop reading it.)
The more interesting issue is how trannies are treated with the GLBT community after they've transitioned and 'become' straight. That's an article that would have been illuminating. (Besides, what they fail to mention is the seemingly high % of M-to-F's who 'become' lesbians. Kind of a wash then, right?)
