All I know is I'm getting tired of hearing people whine about how the movie is mean. I propose a required course in satire for all college students.
How would that help? I thought the mean complaint isn't "say bad things about Jews" but "puts people in awkward situations against their will [pretending that these aren't actors] for the amusement of others."
The Khazaks had nuclear ICBMs after the USSR breakup. They gave them up voluntarily, and I bet they're pissed about that now.
I thought the mean complaint isn't "say bad things about Jews" but "puts people in awkward situations against their will [pretending that these aren't actors] for the amusement of others."
That would probably be my complaint. I haven't seen the movie.
I'm just happy Yglesias pointed out how bizarre it is to say he's from Kazakhstan, which is something that's always bothered me about him.
The point is that the awkward situations thing is the medium for the satire. That whole thing, you know, about pushing social norms to the point where they break down? Putting pressure on competing social conventions to expose the underlying inconsistencies? Mockery of platitudes? Combined with a demonstration that even though platitudinous conventions are ultimately flat and shallow, they actually have a great deal of power to lubricate uncomfortable situations and can go a lot farther than we, the intellectual elite, might expect? Or at least be expected to expect. Or something like that. Jeez, Labs.
See, for a long time I had Kazakhstan confused with Uzbekhistan, and thought that was part of the joke. But then I realized I was wrong, and now I'm just confused about that part, too.
Satire is all we have left to do while we wait for the US to collapse.
I don't follow the complaint that SBC's choice of Kazakhstan is off. Belarus might be the more regionally accurate choice for the character SBC created, but Belarus doesn't end in -stan, and he's of course playing on the low-grade background discomfort Westerners have with Muslim nations (or, potentially, the awareness of such discomfort and PC desire to not exhibit such). And all those hilarious-sounding consonants? Extra points.
This isn't something I care about either way, but I imagine the dispute going like this, B:
Objector: the movie is mean.
B: But the awkward situations thing is the medium for the satire.
Objector: yeah, I know from satire, but this sort of comedy requires placing actual people* in situations of considerable discomfort through no fault of their own in order to make its point. Whether that's sanctioned by a genre or not, it's still mean. (All the more so because the point is often not that interesting.)
What seems unfair about some of the SBC antics (again*) is that they're parasitic on a kind of conversational charity that's generally laudable.
*Suppose the interactions were real.
Is Borat himself supposed to be Muslim? As far as I can tell he disavows that when talking to the old-time rodeo guy.
Given that he's making up everything else about the country Borat is from, criticizing it for being Kazakhstan instead of, what, one of the countries where they what, exactly?, seems a bit off. Plus, -stan countries are cooler.
and he's of course playing on the low-grade background discomfort Westerners have with Muslim nations
I don't think that's obvious. I think Kazakhstan was chosen because people are not likely to know anything about it.
Borat is clearly very Eastern European. That yellow thong atrocity is the kind of thing you'd see at a Black Sea resort. Parts of his schtick resonate with me, like when he expresses pride over a massacre perpetrated by Kazakhs against some other ethnic group. Reminds me of my cousin's husband, who'se proud to have participated in the ethnic-cleansing campaign against Serbs in the Krajina.
9: Okay, sure, but the problem (as I mentioned over at tom's place) is that there actually is a real country called Kazakhstan that's nothing like Borat's country, and it would have been very easy for them to just make up a country ending in -stan for the purpose of fooling gullible Americans.
This sort of ties in to what FL's saying about meanness.
Labs, you seem to be very dubious about the reality of the movie. I hadn't heard that the people involved were plants. Are you just being skeptical on general principle?
I haven't seen the movie yet, so please don't spoil too too much.
JM, I'm pretty sure that at least some things are real (i.e., the interlocutors aren't in on the joke, e.g the rodeo) and some things are not (Pamela Anderson, the dinner party).
14: And SBC's totally unrealistic and unflattering depiction of a real nation has paid off dividends. I mean, Borat claims to represent Kazakhstan in some capacity, doesn't he? When the IRL nation of Kazakhstan threatened to sue SBC, and Borat responded by affirming his country's right to "sue that filthy Jew"—I haven't seen the film, but I kind of doubt any scene in it reaches hilarity of that kind of global proportion.
Isn't it the case that he's not so much making fun of Kazakhstan as gullible Americans who will believe any crazy thing about somewhere that doesn't look like Smallville?
15: Okay, sure. Whether mean or not, though, the use of Kazakhstan strikes me as perfectly explicable.
Isn't it the case that he's not so much making fun of Kazakhstan as gullible Americans who will believe any crazy thing about somewhere that doesn't look like Smallville?
Yes, but that's not how the Kazakhs see it.
I think part of my problem with all this is that I just don't like this kind of cringe-inducing humor much at all.
There's a story in the Post today about a car dealer who's a little honked off about the scene he's in.
Kazakhstan seems to have backed off their original attitude towards the film.
Mongolia published a series of Three Stooges stamps. Maybe they'd appreciate Borat.
Whether that's sanctioned by a genre or not, it's still mean. (All the more so because the point is often not that interesting.)
What seems unfair about some of the SBC antics (again*) is that they're parasitic on a kind of conversational charity that's generally laudable.
Of course; satire is often quite mean. I, personally, disagree that the point isn't that interesting; I think it's really interesting to see people--especially people who one might tend to dismiss (frat boys, southern belles) exercising the conventions that we think of as shallow or silly. First, because the conventions actually go a lot further than one might expect; second, because experimenting with *which* gaffes (sexism, racism, personal insult) are likely to cause the system to break down is interesting, and seeing who reacts to which kind of faux pas is interesting as well; and third because the fact that we *do* think Borat is being mean shows that we're not entirely on his side. We *do* think those conventions are laudable, and in some cases (I presume) we find ourselves impressed by/siding with someone we might not otherwise ally ourselves with (e.g., for me, the clip with the dating coach). I'm not really all that sure that the unwitting innocents in the movie are always the butt of the satire.
All that said, I'm talking out my ass based on previous Borat stuff I've seen; I haven't seen the movie yet. But I'm totally gonna.
Second paragraph is supposed to be italics also, since I'm quoting FL. One of these years I really will remember that one has to redo the italics command after a line break.
I'm a bit leary of Borat. I think his gig is funny as hell, but I think, in the end, it's pretty harmful. The "throw the jew down the well" clip is hilarious, but scary. The people in the clip are totally enthralled by the song. SBC's act is somewhat like Dave Chappelle's act w.r.t African-Americans. It's funny as hell, but is it worth it?
I think Borat's generally less interesting than Ali G, whose targets are less obvious (more liberal intellectuals, fewer fratboys) and who doesn't rely as much on pure shock value. I think the Ali G sketches are generally better at bringing out the stuff b's talking about, whereas the Borat sketches are cruder and more dependent on stereotypes. But I haven't seen the movie either, and I don't plan to; I don't think I could stand two hours of Borat.
All I know is I'm getting tired of hearing people whine about how the movie is mean. I propose a required course in satire for all college students.
Is the idea here that satire isn't mean?
I felt a little unclean after seeing it, but I laughed a lot. The theater full of college students I saw it with were appalled--in that "I'm grossed out, but I can't stop laughing way"--at the fat jokes; I thought they were the jokes most directed at filmgoing audiences.
And I totally appreciated the Oliver & Hardy sight gag.
I haven't seen the movie and I don't know if I will, but that total stranger who stopped me on the elevator yesterday morning, declared his love for all things Borat, and asked if I was going to see the movie, was a little creepy. WTF? Was he a Borat street-teamer or was he trying to pick me up? I couldn't tell.
I said "How nice that you've devoted your life to Borat, you creepy person you. I think you have something between your teeth."
29: FWIW, I hadn't planned on seeing the movie, precisely because I felt the same way as you, but ended up going with some friends last night.
It was AWESOME.
I think part of my problem with all this is that I just don't like this kind of cringe-inducing humor much at all.
Maybe this is a big part of the divide. Because I fucking LOVE cringe inducing humor. I also happen to love Chapelle and Curb Your Enthusisasm.
How are people pronouncing the title, "bo-RAH" or "BO-rat"? Idle curiosity; this is not a movie I will be seeing or probably really discussing much IRL.
40: The second. Whatever language it's supposed to be, it's definitely not French.
I love awkward, but Curb Your Enthusiasm is too awkward even for me.
The "throw the jew down the well" clip is hilarious, but scary. The people in the clip are totally enthralled by the song.
You know what else people are totally enthralled by? Dot racing. Dot racing is what convinced me that your average person has a far more highly developed sense of irony than they're usually given credit for.
I've watched SBC as Borat on the first-season Ali G DVD, having not seen the show before. I found both the Ali G and Borat personas off-putting, and ended up not watching the entire disc.
SBC as Borat reminds me of Robert Townsend in "Hollywood Shuffle", where he righteously shot down anti-black stereotypes that no one had heard of for at least 20 years. As a Jew (by birth, if not by religious belief), I think SBC's shtick is at best irrelevant and at worst harmful, because it dredges up stereotypes and anti-semitic beliefs that no one really deals in anymore.
But, as Jerry Seinfeld said about a character in one episode of his show, SBC also offends me not as a Jew, but as a comedian. It's easy to make people look stupid when they're not in on the joke. I respect SBC's brand of humor about as much as I would respect a so-called martial artist who sucker-punches all his unwitting opponents when they're not looking — indeed, before they even know they're in a fight.
I think Borat's generally less interesting than Ali G, whose targets are less obvious (more liberal intellectuals, fewer fratboys)
I think that's why Borat's satire is more subtle than people seem to realize. Part of the satire is against we, the liberal intellectual audience--the kind of people who are interested in, say, foreign journalists.
Against us, the pedantic intellectual bitches.
I think SBC's shtick is at best irrelevant and at worst harmful, because it dredges up stereotypes and anti-semitic beliefs that no one really deals in anymore.
Why do Republicans like to rail against the "Hollywood liberals" and "Northeastern intellectuals." Why is Traumer, the Democrat House candidate in WY being attacked in ads as being from New York when he's lived in WY for 15 years? Care to hazard a guess as to his ethnicity?
You might like to think we don't deal in this stuff any more, but the ruling party in this country regularly campaigns with the "dirty Jew" code words and wins.
Yglesias: "Expectations for this were sky-high and even though it was good, I feel they weren't meant."
So what's the problem?
"Even though" is typically employed concessively.
Part of the satire is against we, the liberal intellectual audience--the kind of people who are interested in, say, foreign journalists.
See, I just find this a little implausible; you seem to be saying that he's making fun of the rubes not only to humiliate them, but also to mock his viewers for being interested in the first place. I doubt it's really that subtle.
"Even though" is typically employed concessively.
As it is here, where the problem (such as it is) is that the movie failed to meet MY's very high expectations of it. He did, however, still find it very good, so there's no overall problem with the experience.
54: How can you doubt it, given that virtually everyone who talks about the thing expresses ambivalence and discomfort?
But if the high expectations weren't actually meant, then the fact that the movie didn't meet them shouldn't matter.
56: I've always assumed that people expressing discomfort were doing so because it's uncomfortable to watch people being humiliated, not because they felt it was attacking them personally. At least, that's how I feel about it. Maybe other people see it differently.
I don't know what that means, but I suspect my answer is that intent doesn't matter.
57: Whether or not they were meant, they still existed and must be taken into account when evaluating the movie.
if the high expectations weren't actually meant, then the fact
Are you making a joke, or did you not realize that Yglesias almost surely meant "met," where he had "meant"?
59: Yeah, but that's what I'm saying. If we sympathize with the supposed targets of the satire at the same time that we're bothered by whatever it is he's leading them to say, then *our* discomfort comes, in part, from sympathizing with people because we're judging them.
Okay, but I don't see how that means the satire is directed at us.
Because we're forced to sympathize with people we're used to looking down on.
I'm not convinced there is any satire in Borat.
I read 65 as an admission.
Of what? The too-fineness of your mind into evidence?
I'm not at all sure what "satire" even means anymore.
I have trouble holding a grudge, but officially you're still dead to me, zombie B.
Starting with that adorable kitten! Here, kitty kitty.
But isn't that what satire is? The eating of brains?
I have trouble holding a grudge
That'll never do. You people are supposed to run around chopping heads off over the Crusades and shit.
Borat makes people look like asses. But unless those people are pompous, or bigoted, or some other thing deserving of scorn, they look like asses only to a very limited extent. When the target merely falls for the gag by maintaining politeness, but doesn't do or say anything horrible, it's funny, but I don't think the target actually ends up looking all that bad. So I don't feel all that guilty about laughing. I'm an ass in just that way all the time; we all are, so deal.
But sometimes Borat strikes gold by getting someone to say or do something awful. In which case, I don't feel all that bad laughing at that person. He or she sort of deserves it.
It reminds me of the saying that it's very hard to cheat an honest person. There is truth to that.
I've not yet seen the movie, but I had a roommate several years ago with burned DVDs from the BBC show. I laughed.
That'll never do.
Oh, sure, I'd chop off B's head qua her Americanness. That's different.
There's a ton of Borat on YouTube. Here with the anti-semitic hunter. Here's the famous "Jew down the well" scene. And here accompanying a wingnut who's running for Congress door-to-door.
I don't think you know what "qua" means, ogged.
No, I'm pretty sure he knows it's the sound an emu makes.
"qua American," Ben. My sincere and humble apologies.
Good luck chopping off my head before I eat your brains.
Here's Borat learning etiquette. Pretty cringeworthy. Also, funny.
A quality squirm moment from Overheard in the Office.
Asian coworker to black coworker: Why can't you be like Akeelah in Akeelah and the Bee? She was black, but she could spell!
A friend of mine (Richard North) was actually done by SBC in the first Ali G series -- it was never shown on television, but did appearently make it one one of the DVDs.
Though he now claims to have been in on the joke all the time -- what else could he do? -- I remember his reaction at the time, when he really thought that Ali G was some kind of street child who had never seen the countryside at all and that it was very clever of the researchers to find him.
I thought the whole thing horribly cruel, since it combines comedy of embarassment, which makes me squirm at all times, with comedy to be watched drunk, which I don't find funny when I am sober.
I suspect there is a real generational divide here -- that there is an age below which being in on the joke (whatever it may be) is tremendously important, and so carries a huge potential comic charge; and another age where you know deep down that some jokes will always be on you and so it isn't very funy any more.
87 -- not really very well. And if 86 was going to work the clause preceding it would need to be "I would behead B", not "I would chop off B's head".
Okay, this is funny: A guy pretends to be Borat's cousin Horat, and crashes the premiere of the movie. At the end, he corners Borat (i.e., SBC) himself!
SBC halfheartedly answers a question or two in character, but pretty much blows the guy off. It shows that SBC isn't so keen on playing along when the joke's on him.
Wait, wait-- is the consensus here that the movie is insensitive and cruel and politically incorrect and mean and blah blah blah or that it is simply unfunny. I don't care about any of the former--cruel jokes are great! as long as they're not on me--but I don't want to waste my $8 seeing a movie that's boring.
Reminds me a little of Cheech and Chong doing bad taste race jokes and getting away with it because they weren't white. (This is before you people were born.)
They also do Canadian jokes, little-known fact. And I thnk that the Chong prosecution was insane.
B's head is the seat of her Americanness. Remove the head, and you remove the problem.
95: Chong was born in Canada. And I agree that his conviction was bullshit.
Also, text's 81 gets it exactly right.
Text and DA are wrong-ish, particularly here: But sometimes Borat strikes gold by getting someone to say or do something awful. In which case, I don't feel all that bad laughing at that person. He or she sort of deserves it.
This strikes me as somehow similar to (but worse than) Dateline encouraging pedophiles to meet up with SEXyTeEN15 at "her house." I'm not sure where "revelation" stops and "entrapment" begins.
I don't think it's the same sort of entrapment. Borat is funny because his behavior is so absurd. If, it turns out, your inner monologue is equally absurd, then SBC is doing us all a favor by exposing that. Not all temptations constitute entrapment.
And the joke is always on Borat, as well as on his victims. The truth is, people sang along to "throw the jew down the well." They didn't have to. That's something we have to deal with.
98: I was going to say, well, Tim, Dateline isn't funny. But then I realized this was question-begging. I'm going to have to think about this some more.
Admit it, DA: As a Democrat (or someone sympathetic to Dems), you sympathize with pedophiles.
98: I'm pretty sure "entrapment" begins where someone is being induced to break the law and subsequently prosecuted. I haven't seen Borat but I don't remember hearing about him getting people to actually commit crimes.
Exposing people's awfulness or embarrassing secrets for others' fun and amusement is what Fortuny thought he was doing.
SCMT's anti-Borat's arguments are similar to his anti-Fortuny arguments; I agreed with the latter.
Thanks Tim, you've ruined Borat for me.
So, Borat really gets people to expose themselves in career- and life-ruining ways on camera, like Fortuny did to people on the 'Net?
Wait, wait, wait, you can't just say "Borat does..." or "Borat is like..." because his bits are all quite different. Sometimes, they almost have a larger point. In the Jew Down The Well scene, he pits "be hospitable and generous to strangers" against "don't be anti-Semitic" and the result is hilarious to watch. (I don't think it tells us a whole heck of a lot about the people in the bar. If some crazy foreigner showed up to my regular dive, there's very little I wouldn't sing along with, out of simple politeness and fun.)
In the anti-semitic hunter thing, it's a little Fortuny-like, in that the humor is simply in getting the monster to be monstrous, but it's different in that we think the hunter deserves to be publically ridiculed, and also in that Borat isn't undermining a system of trust that a lot of people depend on; it's a one-off.
Then there are the bits about "would you like to feel my balls," which don't really have a larger point, don't hurt anyone, and are hilarious because they show people straining against the limits of their generosity to strangers.
109: That's just what I was wondering about, thanks.
I don't think it tells us a whole heck of a lot about the people in the bar.
I'm not sure yours is the representative response. Most discussions of it that I've read say something like, "Rednecks who are anti-semitic? Tell me something I don't already know." This may be a "aware of Family Circle"/ "not aware of Family Circle" divide.
I know rednecks are supposed to be anti-semitic, and the hunter bit demonstrates that pretty clearly (at least for that one guy), but the singing is, if you like, overdetermined: there are too many other things that could explain the singing for us to say that Borat demonstrated the people's anti-semitism.
I can't believe Ogged is sticking up for anti-Semites and asking people to feel his balls. Some nerve.
Sorry, sorry, no one has to feel my balls until after I wipe Labs's spit off them.
Well, if you watch the clip, the crowd is a lot less responsive when the song is about the transportation system, and not the jews. I have no idea how the clip was edited, but the crowd seems displeased with the performance--until Borat starts singing about grabbing the jew by the horns. It is a very generous interpretation of the scene to say that they are just being hospitable. They aren't hospitable at first.
But otherwise, 109 is right.
"My moustache still tastes of your testes!" That line stayed with me, oddly enough.
In particular, I refuse to feel bad for enjoying the "would you like to feel my balls" bits.
Well, if you watch the clip, the crowd is a lot less responsive when the song is about the transportation system
See, this is where I think SBC is masterful. He's not singing with nearly as much gusto when the song is about the transport system. He gets into it when the chorus about the Jews begins, and then the crowd gets into it.
I don't think my take is idiosyncratic, by the way. Here's Ron Rosenbaum:
1) If you scratch the surface of the average American, you find someone who's capable of encouraging murderous anti-Semitism.
2) Americans are so friendly and nonxenophobic that they'll go out of their way to play along with a foreigner even if they wouldn't in their wildest dreams throw a Jew down a well. They're just being good sports about the kooky outsider so he'll feel at home. Maybe it's anti-Semitism, but it's not deep-seated Streicher/Goebbels anti-Semitism, is it? It's more get-along, go-along anti-Semitism. (Like the anti-Semitism in Roth's The Plot Against America.)
3) Maybe it's get-along, go-along, friendly-to-foreigners anti-Semitism. But under the right circumstances, a substratum of this sort of jovial sing-along anti-Semitism can be transformed into something uglier.
That's a good point. I was thinking about how he structured the song earlier; it is masterful.
I just watched that Horat bit. Quite a long way from funny.
but the singing is, if you like, overdetermined
To be clear, I wasn't speaking to the actual motivations of the audience, but to the probable interpretation (and what I assume SBC knew would be the probable interpretation) of their response by the movie audience.
Rosenbaum concludes from the fact that the normal American response to him is attempted murder that Americans are anti-Semitic. But really, it's just him. Find a non-Jewish Rosenbaum-equivalent (should be easy) and my point is proved. Hitchens, perhaps.
So, Borat really gets people to expose themselves in career- and life-ruining ways on camera, like Fortuny did to people on the 'Net?
If anything should wreck your career or your reputation, it's showing up on TV singing, with gusto, "throw the Jew down the well."
Question: don't the people appearing on the series or in the movie have to have signed a release form? If you aren't mortified by the prospect of appearing on TV singing "throw the Jew down the well"....
I don't think it tells us a whole heck of a lot about the people in the bar. If some crazy foreigner showed up to my regular dive, there's very little I wouldn't sing along with, out of simple politeness and fun.
Like I said, people will cheer wildly for three fucking dots chasing each other around an animated track. That doesn't even require the crazy foreigner, just a little bit of music and some enthusiasm from the stadium announcer.
Josh totally got caught out by SBC.
To add to what Josh is saying, it seemed to me that during the movie a lot of the audience reaction was prompted by hearing Things We Don't Say. (E.g., "my brother has very big mental retardation.") I wonder if the appearance of the crazy foreigner creates a context where people think they can play at saying forbidden things without genuinely endorsing them.
Also, I'm the gun dealer who sold Borat the gold 9.
Like French in The Magic Mountain.
123: This article discusses how they get people to sign the releases; it's by one of the women who appears in the movie. They got her to sign the release *before* the interview, and once she'd signed it there wasn't a whole lot she could do.
(This article discusses the releases themselves.)
125: No, but I was horribly disillusioned when I discovered the dot racing was fixed.
I wonder if the appearance of the crazy foreigner creates a context where people think they can play at saying forbidden things without genuinely endorsing them.
You mean ogged is really Borat?
Ogged's photos reveal a body-hair match. Would it be irresponsible to speculate? It would be irresponsible not to.
132: It's clear that his posts on the attractiveness of women were attempts to satirize "liberal" men's purported feminist beliefs. Or so he should argue evermore.
SBC is part Iranian (if you go back a bit).
Huh, I'd always wondered where that "Baron" came from.
I have a South American friend whose name is Baron.
OT Bears comment: Ha ha ha ha ha.
I'm still unclear as to what's so funny about immigrants. The "joke" here seems to me to have far more to do with standard xenophobia than any kind of semantic play or subversion of the rules of polite conversation.
And what's up with all the anti-Roma stuff? Coming from a supposedly devout Jew who's lived in Israel, that seems extremely suspicious to me. Picking on Kazakhs is one thing -- they can always theoretically go back to Kazakhstan and be part of a majority and do as they will. But inciting anti-Roma hatred, even in obvious jest, seems pretty dubious, given the level and degree of oppression that Roma people face, especially in Eastern Europe.
As for bigots who are caught out in their bigotry, I can't get too upset about that, but there definitely seems to be a question of whether Baron Cohen's schtick is intensifying bigotry in order to subvert it, or merely directing it at some of the most vulnerable people in the world.
Really. Miami? Miami? At Soldier Field? Oh my.
(OK, now the Patriots really better win tonight.)
Isn't The Donald's latest spawn named Baron? And one of Paris Hilton's brothers? Does anyone name children "Viscount"?
The most useless point guard in the NBA is also named Baron.
If anyone ever abandons a baby girl on my steps, I'm naming it Nutella.
I think Marquis (in the British pronunciation) is a delightful twist on the banal name "Marcus" or "Mark."
There was a clerk down at the Santa Monica Courthouse named "Countess". And she made sure she got the deference her title merited...
I think Marquis (in the British pronunciation)
Lemme guess: "markwiz"?
Mar-kwiss
[part 101 in an ongoing series 'strange British pronunciation' quirks ...]
McGrattan is a Scot. Don't pay any attention to him.
All I know is I'm getting tired of hearing people whine about how the movie is mean. I propose a required course in satire for all college students.
B, weren't you the one getting all upset about how mean Garrison Keilor is to Americans of Nordic extraction?
By the way, I have no particular beef with Prarie Home Companion: I don't particularly like it, but if it's on, I don't mind listening to it. I watched the movie this weekend, however, and it was one of the most tedious experiences I've had in a long time. Did any 'Shafters like it, and if so would they care to explain why?
Also, the latest This American Life is a really excellent piece of radio journalism:
What's in a Number? 2006 Edition
A new study in the British medical journal The Lancet estimates the number of Iraqi dead since the U.S. invasion at over 600,000. This week, we look at whether that number might be accurate, and return to a in-depth look at a similar study in The Lancet, with similar methodology. That study came out a year ago, and was largely ignored by the press. We also hear U.S. forces dealing with the aftermath of some of those Iraqi civilian deaths.
B's argument seems to be that sometimes it's okay to be mean and sometimes it isn't. I still don't understand how she distinguishes between the two cases, though.
Thanks for clearing that up, teo.
#120: I don't think the whole "Horat" video is funny; just the part where he meets Borat at the end of it.
#129: “We are working in conjunction with Belarus Television and a foreign correspondent,” Chelsea wrote, covering up even the fictional nationality of Borat. She wanted to arrange “a round table discussion about the recent history of feminism.” Members of the producing team have worked on productions about women war correspondents and female boxers, she reported.
Since the interviewees' consent was apparently induced through outright fraud, one would assume that a disgruntled Borat victim could sue the bejeezus out of SBC and his deep-pocketed production company. I wonder why this hasn't happened yet.
151: Maybe if Keillor was funny, I'd feel differently.
I realize it should be "different," but I don't care, Ben.
Maybe because they're not such bad sports, GB.
I've always assumed that the real art of Da Ali G Show was the creation of the bookings agent who got the interviews and the lawyer who wrote the disclosure forms.
Bad sports isn't in it. There's money to be had!
Ok, I know about problems of quotation and irony, but for this, "Instead, for the sake of a cheap laugh, he chooses to reinforce the stereotype of women as the inferior sex, at the expense of women. How funny is that?...But, clearly, he will only show segments that make the 'figures' in his art — his interviewees — look foolish, so that he looks superior." (quotation from the link in 129) to be a proper inference, don't we have to assume that the audience is laughing with, not at, Borat? I strongly deny that that is the case.
Borat says stupid and false things constantly, it's a rarity when he makes a true claim. Interestingly, the writer of the article accepts this with regards to Borat and Jews (because SBC is jewish, 'natch) but denies it with regard to women. It's, according to her, simply out of bounds for men to engage in self-deprecating humor where the joke is, "Men hold idiotically anti-feminist beliefs."
Still off topic, but as for 141: fuck me.
It was a rough day for fans of the true and the good.