This post going out to Bitch, Ph. D.
There are several smokers among the Unfogged regulars.
And I normally wouldn't nag them -- everyone else in my nuclear family smokes or did smoke for decades, and I stopped being a jerk about it when I was ten or so. It was just hearing about Chris -- I'll be civilized about it again in a day or so.
LB--I'm very sorry to hear about your friend's illness.
But smoking ain't the only thing that can kill you. Obesity, poor circulation, hypertension, osteoporosis and its complications--those and more can leave your kids orphaned early.
So get off your ass and get to the gym!
You're welcome.
I'm a smoker, and as I've announced on my blog, I'm quitting on Dec. 22.
LB--so sorry to hear about your friend.
m. leblanc--quitting immediately before Christmas? You must have a much better relationship with your family than I do.
No, quitting before Christmas is a good idea. My family doesn't know, and my mom, if she found out, would die a little inside.
Addendum to 9: To clarify, I smoke two or three times a week, since August, I think.
Oh, Jesus. The hospital just called, and apparently Buck is Chris's health care proxy from back before he got married. He's unconscious, on a ventilator, and may not be going to wake up.
And thank you, sam. And M., not that you weren't quitting already.
Jesus Christ. Didn't he just get diagnosed last week?! Fuck.
13: We had dinner with him and his wife two Thursdays ago. The week after that, he was in the hospital with pneumonia, but they didn't think it was a big deal. We found out about the cancer this morning -- I think the diagnosis was yesterday.
He was doing long bike rides last month.
And as to the quitting date: I'm waiting until the day after finals, which will be a coffee-and-cigarette fueled two weeks of madness. Quitting before Christmas not a problem as I'm spending it with my sister, who is delightful; hanging out with her is actually less stressful than hanging out with some of my friends. Also, she gives me a hard time about smoking, so I hardly smoke around her anyway.
Oh, LB, your update. I don't know what to tell you. As someone who lost a parent, adult friends of your parents can be a great comfort. But don't worry--I imagine that opportunities to help will present themselves as they arise. Just keep up with what's going on.
And more than anything, what people need when they've just lost someone they love is someone to hang out with. I have had two friends who lost their boyfriends (one in a car accident, the other a suicide), and what I could do most for them was go over there and just hang out, cook, listen to music, watch tv, whatever. If they don't have people to do that for them, they'll need you.
It seems that I am the resident Unfogged death expert. Lovely.
I'll take this thread to 100 by myself if I have to.
LB, I think what you can do at first is make yourself available. Call his wife, leave her a message or tell her that you are there to help if you can, if she's camped out at the hospital she may need someone to bring her stuff or other errands. Also-his kids? Are they in town, or are they going to come in from elsewhere? There might be logistical issues associated with those things.
LB:
I'm sad to hear that. These sort of shocks are pretty hard to encompass.
Everything practical falls by the side. Free her up to spend time with him (while he's here) while not worrying about other things getting done. You said kids: are they young enough to need supervision? If so, take them off her hands for a bit if you can and distract them. Offer to tidy up a bit at home if it goes on for a while and the kids live there. Coming back from a vigil at hospital to a mess can't be fun. Oh, and if she is spending a lot of time at the hospital, make sure she eats and rests enough.
Afterward, what m.leblanc said: They're going to need distractions and company. Food is good (takeout if you haven't the time to cook). Just hanging out if there aren't others doing that, as she said. Depends a lot on the person how much time alone they need/is good for them.
whups, I'm an idiot, didn't read `early 20s'. In that case, situation for them is similar to hers.... m.leblanc is all over this stuff: help them with logistics if you can./
Good luck, LB.
LB, that's really awful. Good luck.
Also, 18 is pretty much right. My gf lost her second parent almost a year ago, and for her step-mother the biggest thing that people did to help was bring food, or cook for her. In general, cooking and "errands" are teh suck when you're grieving -- any chance you have to prepare food, or pick people up/drop them off, or handle bureaucratic nonsense, or offer on-the-side legal advice, or anything like that...
What sad news. I'm very sorry to hear it.
To second what leblanc says: a few years ago I was surprised at how comforting it was to have friends with me at the services for a family member-- it seems like things like that wouldn't be a big deal, but they often are. Making yourself available for just being around can be very helpful, though you have to look for signs that grieving people also need space. When something like this happens, the shock makes it hard to do day-to-day stuff, which is why bringing food over is a traditional community response-- people forget to eat, sleep, and so on. Horribly, there's also lots of paperwork, logistics, etc. Most of this I would guess has to be done by the family, but you could try to take care of day-to-day stuff in order to allow them to do what they need to do.
You're an astute person, and you'll see little (or big) things that are burdens to the family. If those problems magically got taken care of, the family has an easier time.
Specific offers of logistical help can be good. Anticipating what is needed can be even better. Does the car need to be filled up with gas? (Oh wait, they live in NY.) Does the dog need to be walked?
Phone calls are a big deal. Something that can be hard for family to do and too personal to give to a total stranger -- having someone with one degree of distance, like you, can be good. Maybe there is a list already of people who will have to be called to tell them about the memorial service or funeral. There may also be a shorter list right now of people who might want to say a goodbye in person, even if Chris is unconscious.
It's hard to think clearly when you're in the midst of this kind of situation, so sometimes gentle questions to prompt the wife to think about what she wants/needs to have done can be OK. Play it by ear.
Eventually there will be stupid but important stuff like an obituary, flowers, music, etc. Also picking up out-of-towners from the airport, or making hotel arrangements for them, etc.
Thoughtfulness and caring are what will matter most, and you're already providing those.
So sorry to hear about your friend. As for his family, like Silvana says, the most important thing is to be with them. Especially initially, the less time they spend alone, the better. You don't have to do all of that yourself; you can become the coordinator for the circle of friends they do have, figuring out when people will be with them. The other thing you can do is take on some of the minor administrative responsibilities. The paperwork of death, and all that. The family will be in shock, and will forget and just not want to do a lot of things. Make lists, do the stuff that someone without authorization can do. Finally, take care of Buck too, as it sounds like this is a close friend. Don't forget how traumatized he's going to be.
Oh, phone calls are a huge deal. Good call on that. Last summer, my godmother, with whom I used to be really close and still am, although we only talk every few months, lost her mother. I didn't even find out her mother had died until almost three weeks later, because she couldn't bring herself to call me.
So that's a good one.
LB, I'm so sorry. I've really only dealt with the much older relative situations and don't have too much in the way of practical advice. If there's something those of us out in blogland can do for you, don't hesitate to ask.
Oh yes, really good reminder to take care of Buck too. The ripple effects are so much wider than you realize they're going to be, and you often don't notice in the moment because you're so busy being functional.
If this is new-ish to you (a death of someone who was not already elderly and ill), it's probably also new to Sally and Newt. I'm sure you've already thought about this, but they'll probably need reassurance in whatever form they usually prefer (verbal, nonverbal, etc.).
If possible, you may even want to bring a gift/snack to the hospital for the nursing staff. Yes, they're professionals and they're supposed to treat everyone well, but they're human too. And those are the folks who can make end-of-life bearable or unbearable, can smooth the path for the family in a hundred ways -- a plate of cookies, especially given that they're working a holiday week, is never a bad idea.
advice is all well but in all honesty there is nothing that can be done that makes it even a tiny bit less bloody horrible. best wishes.
there is nothing that can be done that makes it even a tiny bit less bloody horrible
There's nothing that can make the death ok, but having people helping as they can, or just acting like they care, can keep a bad situation from being worse. And it helps the people grieving, especially when they get over the initial shock, feel less forsaken by the universe.
After my grandmother's death, even when the crying was mostly stopped, I was surprised by how tired I was. I was just too exhausted to get anything done. I would have welcomed help for anything that took initiative, 'cause I was too tired to get started.
My friend Chris is incredibly good at sitting with grieving people, but that's something I have to work myself up for. He just sits and listens and acknowledges that it is really that sad. It is an amazing relief to have him there.
Also, this stunned me, but when we were in our mid-twenties, my ex-boyfriend's friend's parent died. My ex sent a card, and the friend said later that he was the only person in their group who did. People are probably better about notes or cards now that we're older, but I learned that they can matter.
There's a fairly simple rule you can apply to gym attendence. When it's nearly time for you to go, and you find yourself in doubt, the doubt in itself is the decider: you'll go. And if doubt continues, even more weight piles up behind the 'go' decision. If you really don't feel well enough to go for some reason (injury, virus, etc.) you'll know, and there won't be doubt.
LB, I'm very sorry about your friend.
What Witt said above about anticipating is very good. I think most people are reluctant to ask for help. Even grieving people, who really need the help, may feel uncomfortable about it. Or they may be overwhelmed by the death that they're not even thinking about other stuff. And then, when the dog couldn't hold it anymore, they remember that no one walked the dog that day.
Condolences to all.
And there's much better advice here on bereavement than I could offer; but I'd echo the thought that in tough situations you can give a lot of comfort just by making yourself available to take care of practical things.
I'm sorry, LB. The advice here is good though: an informal shiv'ah is a wonderful thing.
God, that's awful. I'm sorry. 24-26 are the best advice, ime; how much to be with someone, or leave them alone, is tough, and you may have to figure it out as you go.
So sorry, LB. Fucking cancer.
What everyone else has said about helping out and just being there is exactly right. Another thing that can help, depending on the family situation, is just working in a low-key way to try to make sure that information gets communicated to everyone who needs to have it and that people stay more or less on the same page about what's happening and what needs to be done. It's awfully easy for people to inadvertently hurt each other pretty badly when they're busy dealing with their own grief. Sometimes you can see that coming and head it off without anyone even really noticing.
Yeah, that may turn into an issue. Chris's wife is pretty new, and given the age of his kids, while everyone is friendly they aren't really a family. Being there as a bit of a cushion between F. and Chris's kids may be helpful. And thank you all for the advice, this is really helpful.
42: I think its preferable to err on the side of the former. When you're grieving sometimes you think you want just to be left alone; but when people really do leave you alone it's actually much much worse. It's awful to feel forgotten in your grief.
First, condolences. I've been through this with two parents, an aunt, and a brother, and it's never easy. Things will get screwed up. Cut everyone a bunch of slack. Grief affects one's mental capacity, and not for the better.
Second, let me get ghoulish. Along with quitting smoking, this is also a reminder to everyone: get those durable powers of attorney for health care, the regular powers of attorney, the wills, the pay-on-death designations on accounts, etc. in order. It's never too early.
I don't know if Chris executed any powers of attorney, but remember that they expire when he does. If anything needs to get cleaned up in the estate plan, this is the time. It's also something the family shouldn't be worrying about, but may be.
This might also be the time to start making funeral arrangements. When my aunt was in hospice in the Bronx it didn't occur to us that we'd need to make cremation arrangements pretty soon, so we didn't start until she'd died. If you can find out what the family wants, you can have things lined up. Or you can just scout ahead, and then when they suddenly realize they need to know you'll have some maps.
The hospital should have a social worker on staff whose job it is to help make arrangements, perhaps including transfering Chris to a hospice facility. You might want to find that person.
The family might appreciate someone to accompany them, or even act in their stead, when dealing with hospital and funeral home and related issues. In my family the rule is 'never go alone'. The spouse/kids etc are often too upset to be able to rationally comprehend what they're being told, so another person making mental notes at such meetings can be comforting.
And yeah, this is going to be tough for you, and Buck, and Sally, and Newt, and pretty much everyone. Condolences.
And yeah, making sure no one is left out of the information loop, and that information is repeated as often as needed, is very helpful. Anticipate denial, anger, and sudden attacks of overwhelming stupidity. Also anticipate sudden attacks of absolutely debilitating, overwhelming grief.
All of the good advice has been given already (after the loss of a parent, having competent adults around to just get shit done helps no matter how old the kids are), so I'll just add my condolences.
Hiring a cleaning service or having food delivered is always really helpful ... but I'll echo the sentiments of others saying just being there and being around the house is probably the best thing to do. There will always be members of the family who handle things better or worse than others, so being able to sit with the ones who are worse off can be a giant help to those who are just barely managing to keep it together. When my best friend's dad died at the beginning of the year, I flew out there and spent two days keeping her mother, who was really a mess, distracted so my friend could make the funeral arrangements. I think that meant a lot to all of them.
If it looks like he'll regain consciousness and will be lucid, suggest to his kids that now is the time to ask questions that they'll wish they knew the answer to later. I didn't get a chance to do this (my father died suddenly), but when my wife's dad passed earlier this year, she did get a chance and I think it helped her immensely.
I've struggled for years with some very basic questions--to this day I'd love to ask my dad if he was proud of me. You friend's relationship with his kids may have been far better than mine was with my father, but I would suspect that there are always questions that could and should be asked and answered.
now is the time to ask questions
Indeed. Unfortunately, I was 18 when my father died and I hadn't the faintest idea what questions to ask or, for that matter, the slightest inkling that questions existed in the universe for which I hadn't already figured out every answer.
So, so many questions now. And like all the rest, condolences.
Another thing: When it gets to this point, the family is going to need at least 12 and probably closer to 20 copies of the death certificate. A ridiculous number of companies (bank account/safe deposit box, insurance company, safe deposit box, life insurance policy, dept of motor vehicles, credit-card companies, and on and on) will insist on having an ORIGINAL death certificate. They only cost about $12 each -- when the funeral director asks how many they need, the answer is "A lot."
Also, a bit off-topic: I keep looking at that line about expected deaths being easier to take and tearing up at the image of my wife's uncle at the funeral of his wife of 63 years a couple of days ago. She'd been bedridden for several years after a stroke, and the service was several weeks after her death, so it wasn't like there was anything unexpected about it, but I have seldom seen anyone who was working so hard at holding it together--and mostly succeeding--still look so completely shattered. This losing loved ones stuff just fundamentally sucks, whenever it happens.
Death is one area in which traditions play a valuable role. Make sure the family has plenty of prepared food, i.e. frozen caseroles that can be microwhapped. The last thing people want to face is the quotidian. Take the kids to a movie. And call in two or three months, once evryone else has moved on. And on the six month, and one year aniiversary of the death.
I think most everything's been said above - the only thing I'd add is don't be afraid to talk about Chris after he's dead. Some people seem to feel that if the deceased isn't mentioned, the grieving process will somehow be accelerated. And never, ever say "It will get better". It won't.
49 and 50 are making me tear up in class. Christ.
I guess I have a lot of questions still to ask my father now. I might as well start asking, even though he's still in perfect health. Maybe everyone should.
The little I've read in the D&D literature (that's Death and Dying) left me with the impression that along with survivor guilt there's often dying guilt - that is, the dying person can feel guilty about all the things he won't be able to take care of if he dies.
If he becomes lucid - and there's a heavy judgment call about pain and meds vs potential for lucidity - he, too, may want to take the opportunity to say a few things, and might appreciate some reassurance that he shouldn't feel guilty about what he's leaving behind.
Yeah, it never gets better. Yeah, anniversaries can be a bitch. And yeah, coupla dozen original death certificates. And for those who are so inclined the NYT will put a note in their obituary columns for a few hundred bucks. Somehow seeing it in the NYT can make it real.
His kids - their mother died when they were in their early teens, and now dad dying in their early 20s. That could be bad. It could trigger flashbacks and reversions and other kinds of psychological things I'm not competent to speak of. But some people who seem to be holding it together at the time can lose it six months or a year later.
Both professional and amateur assistance is available. After my best friend from college died of skin cancer his widow found great comfort, and another husband, in a cancer survivors' group. Some people find 'em helpful, some don't. Again, the social worker at the hospital should have info on finding such assistance.
Such groups may be helpful in the hospice stage, too. FWIW, IME getting the person out of the hospital and into the hospice is a great, great idea. Much nicer situation.
I'm sorry about your friend, LB. This really sucks.
I second all the great advice, especially with the food, errands, and continuing to check in with your friend's wife and kids over the next year.
just wanted to second that it's really important to keep talking naturally about the dead person if it comes up with those who are grieving...don't ignore the topic or avoid saying his name. if you avoid ever bringing him up, it will seem like you forgot him -- or as if he didn't have a big impact on your life and the lives of those around you.
maybe they want to hear stories about happier times involving him...especially stories about him that they might not know, from times when they weren't around but you were.
also, don't say "just call if you need anything"... the grieving people will probably not be in a state to think of what they will or won't need, and they very likely may not feel comfortable asking. just offer. "would it help if i picked your relatives up from the airport for the funeral?" etc.
food is okay, but it's also the obvious thing, so you get inundated with it and you probably lost your appetite and it's nice to feel cared about but there may be other bigger more difficult logistical tasks at hand.
My sincerest condolences, LB, and best of luck with everything.
I'd also like to non-pushily encourage you to keep us updated about how your friend, everyone involved, and you are doing, and to please let any or all of us know if there's anything we can do to help.
But some people who seem to be holding it together at the time can lose it six months or a year later.
This, absolutely. I hit the six month mark, had a precipitating event (my ex-gf told me she'd fallen in love), went on a three-day middle-of-the-week bender, quit my job, and eventually wound up seeing a shrink when I decided I really needed to get my shit together.
And call in two or three months, once evryone else has moved on. And on the six month, and one year aniiversary of the death.
I can't agree more with all the good advice, but especially this. Call her on Chris' birthday next year. Offer to go Christmas/Holiday/Whatever shopping with her. The first year, IME, is the worst because that's when all the first big X days without them start hitting - first time it's their birthday, first Thanksgiving, first time it's your birthday, and so on and so forth. She's going to need to know that someone else is thinking about both her and him on those days.
Can I just say that trying to find funeral homes is maddening? I just spent twenty minutes each on the phone with two different funeral homes (different names, different phone numbers, different addresses) only to find out when they both faxed their price lists that they were the same place.
Sounds maddening. They're lucky to have you to help.
At the rate I'm going, I'm probably going to accidentally set up an orthodox Bahai'i service. (Not that there's anything wrong with that, other than the non-Bahai'iness of everyone involved.)
the *after* is the hardest (as per 59, 61, 62). just knowing that someone else remembers - or at least remembers you might be having a hard time - helps tremendously. sadly, too few people understand this.
Have you considered something scientological? Or perhaps the DIY approach. I remember reading a case about a small religious group in Lordsburg NM who put the deceased into a hefty bag, and then into the closet. I think they were awaiting the rapture, or something like it. Who knew there was a common law crime of 'indecent treatment of a dead body'?
Sorry, it's probably too early for jokes.
FWIW, a funeral home is not absolutely required, if one is willing to consider cremation. We had my aunt direct cremated, I picked up the ashes later from a scuzzy storefront around 110th and 3d Ave, and handled the reception and such ourselves. It was about $600 for the cremation.
Similarly, for my father we did cremation, then had memorial gatherings organized around the people he was close to in his professional life.
Not recommendations, just thoughts.