I want the terrorists to win.

And of course, the Scorpions are Nazis effete Old Europe pussies.

In many ways, ogged, you're a very odd fellow.

I mean—what's with this romanticizing of the hypothesized American Lunkhead? I've seen the CDs in your car; you aren't a lunkhead.

Of that sort, anyway.

No, Ogged is a towelhead. And you should have looked at his motorcycle as well as his car.

Ogged is exactly right, isn't he? How is this even disputable?

I don't like lunkheads, generally speaking, but as I think I've noted before 1) one ought not deny the obvious merits of the things people one doesn't like think/do and 2) every culture, including lunkhead culture, works in some ways, satisfies certain needs, etc., and it's good to keep one's eyes open to those ways. Saying "lunkheads are dumb, and driving fast with the music blasting is dumb" is kind of dehumanizing, and misses the ways in which driving fast with the music blasting is totally awesome.

7 is correct, except that it needs to be made clear that there is the possibility of driving fast with non-lunkheaded music blasting. Rocket From The Crypt, for example. Or The Fall's last couple of albums.

Ok, now I'm going to watch The Wire. Try not to hate America too much while I'm away.

I'm sorry I peed on your cornflakes, Ogged. It seemed to be the thing to do at the time.

And the Scorpions are lunkheaded.

Driving fast with loud music is fun, sure. But it's the quick move to say "wow, America" that I think is problematic. Why is it always the st00pid that gets honored that way?

Why is it always the st00pid that gets honored that way?

See: Destiny, Manifest

"but this feeling is America, is it not?"

Yes. Maybe a little less so on the East Coast. But growing up in the Midwest in the 60s, when gas was cheap and the cars were fast, 100 miles daily after school was normal. Just go, man. N, S, doesn't matter.

Hell, I still wake up some mornings and want to go to the beach. Dallas to Santa Cruz.

12:Is the objection to Scorpions? I crossed Mississippi, Kentucky, and Indiana to Happy Trails.
Whites & pot. IIRC, which is unlikely. Some states somewhere.

But it's the quick move to say "wow, America" that I think is problematic.

Well, it's either that or cowboy hats.

15: or a reactionary fear of things foreign.

s/b 16: or a reactionary fear of things foreign.

I still wake up some mornings and want to go to the beach. Dallas to Santa Cruz.

A friend of mine did something like that a few years ago. He woke up a little stir-crazy one morning, so he headed west. DC to San Fransisco. No one knew where he was for about a week and a half.

I had some friends in high school who decided late one night to head for the ocean. They broke down in Needles.

I really don't see how this point is even in contention. Rocking out is our heritage. Those who disagree are encouraged to move to Helsinki and to listen to Tegan and Sarah while bicycling to work. (not that there's anything wrong with that)

I had some friends in high school who decided late one night to head for the ocean.

I did that occasionally my last year.

Of course I could get to the ocean in around twenty minutes.

Preempted by Timbot.

The fact that baa is able to deploy references to Tegan and Sarah, and to identify Helsinki as a hip locale, is extremely intriguing. One gets the impression that the frequency of scotch drinking and Dickens reading has been in decline in the a household.

For them it was about 1000 miles. They drove all night through Arizona at 100 mph before breaking down. At school on Monday everyone was wondering where they were.

Writing 24 has reminded me that I came up with what would have been a moderately clever comment back when we were talking about how Bphd's son was going to seduce baa's hypothetical daughter, but it's too late now.

And why does your hair hang over your face? For him who meets me to take me by the forelock.
And why, in Heaven's name, is the back of your head bald? Because none whom I have once raced by on my winged feet will now, though he wishes it sore, take hold of me from behind.

Though I wish it sore, I will probably never take hold of baa's daughter from behind.

road rage is America, yes. We are all quite roadrageous.

The Great American Movie

The Great American Novel?:Moby Dick, Huckleberry Finn, On The Road, Play It As It Lays

Theatre? Not really. Rainmaker? Picnic? Summer & Smoke? I got this sexist Syngey thing from me youth, trapped women I left behind. It's the Irish in me.

"It's well you know what call I have. It's well you know it's a lonesome thing to be passing small towns with the lights shining sideways when the night is down, or going in strange places with a dog noising before you and a dog noising behind, or drawn to the cities where you'd hear a voice kissing and talking deep love in every shadow of the ditch, and you passing on with an empty, hungry stomach failing from your heart."

Joni Mitchell's Hejira is great, but of course the Boss wrote the American Song

29 - I was so hoping that's what I would click through to see! No movie with a character named "the Girl" should work remotely as well as that. Also Warren Oates is A++ number one foreva.

This post was really just a slam on Bob.

19:I probably did Midwest or Texas to California and back 6 times in the 70s. Chicago to Texas (D, A, SA) 10 times. Florida 3 times.

California is a nice place to visit but I can't live there. I feel like I might fall off the edge of the world. I need a thousand miles of road in every direction.

this feeling is America, is it not? Ok, it's not the whole thing, but it's right near the heart.

or so the mullahs would have you believe.

Ha!

I need a thousand miles of road in every direction.

Funny, I'm the exact opposite. I get a little overwhelmed if I'm not within a few hours' drive of the ocean.

I believe that the French are the only people aside from David Brooks who are allowed to make breezy overgeneralizations about American culture as a whole.

That's right, I just compared Ogged to David Brooks.

Ogged thinks that this sort of behavior gets to be "America" because he thinks (a) America is, like, \textit{real}[1], honest, authentic, etc, man, and (b) unreflective rawk is real, probably \textit{because} unreflective (while reflectiveness is soft, corrupt, out of touch with Being, or whatever). This is, of course, silly.

[1] LaTeX markup written accidentally and retained for quasi-humorous effect

37: And to the French.

accord w/ mcmanus over hejira.
Great highway album, great album simpliciter, and refuge of the road contains greatest fretless bass playing of all time.

and of course, any guy who likes Joni Mitchell probably hangs out at lesbian sites, too.

No, Ben, because the "get in your car and just go (preferably while blasting music)" impulse is distinctly American (best as I can tell).

reflectiveness is soft, corrupt, out of touch with Being,

This would, of course, be a stupid thing to think.

36: Also the Lur.

42: Though no less correct for all its stupidity.

w-lfs-n., you're position is just wrong. The road movie might be the most American of all genres.

Yes, but the road movie starring John Emerson?

Insofar as Ben is saying that this isn't distinctively American, of course he's just wrong. Insofar as he's saying it's wrong to celebrate this, there's plenty of room for debate, and I haven't actually celebrated it (though I do, personally, dig it).

45: You mean "Jeepers Creepers?"

"your", Timbot. One almost wants to ask about the Western. Instead I'll point out that a road movie need not depict the phenomenon ogged describes (I've never seen Two-Lane Blacktop but my understanding is that it's not a balls to the wall Scorpions rockout), and that his mythologizing and hypostasizing of an unreflective (because, whether or not it actually is, that's the description you're working with, with that "butthead power rock" stuff and all—non- or anti-intellectual, so-called "primal" stuff—whereas probably all that primality is an invention of culture) emotive state is, to me, distasteful.

It's ok, ogged. The disenchantment of the world has hit us all pretty hard. But let's not put our heads in the sand.

Recall my impassioned defense of the American highway system.

Whereas ogged, in post to which the linked comments are pendant: doesn't it seem like lots of people would love to take trains, if only trains were even a bit more convenient?

Why do you hate America, ogged?

The "primal" as a category may be one of culture, but as an emotional state, it's real. And you can't just argue it away, or pretend it doesn't exist, or banish it with censure or scorn. It'll get ya. And as expressions of it go, speed and music are pretty damn civilized.

I didn't say I would take the train.

I enjoy rocking out as much as the next guy, but The Scorpions make me mash frantically at the radio buttons to find anything else, including static.

Hejira

No matter how great the songwriting, arrangements, or Pastorius' bass, I can never get past Joni Mitchell's voice, which just makes my muscles tense up (ANITGW).

I should shut up b/ cI don't know the Scorpions (I'm sorry, I just don't remember music I don't listen to a lot. Sue me.) But. . .yeah, how is this arguable? Cars, loud music, big open spaces, well paved roads, fairly uniform availability of gas, AAA---there are few other places in the world where these things combine so well and smoothly. It's not that you have to do this to be American--it's that if you want to do it, America is probably the best place for it.

I had a relation once who had lived in America for about ten years before moving back to India. The man loved to drive, and upon revisiting America, the first thing he did was rent a car and drive as far and as fast as he could. You just can't drive like that in most of the world. I'm a total treehugger, but I think it's more productive to acknowledge that rush and combat it openly then to dismiss it as mere stupidity.

Wait, since when is being unreflective a part of rocking out? Rocking out is only unreflective insofar as it transcends reflection as a limitation. Aren't you a Kierkegaard fancier, w-lfs-n?

54: I worked with a young woman who had grown up in India, and she considered the American highway system the eighth wonder of the world (her words).

I thought someone might play it that way, baa. It's not clear to me that that's the kind of rocking out that was under discussion.

I actually haven't read much Kierkegaard, something I should remedy.

w-lfs-n:

The road picture is the child of the Western. We listen to the Scorpions rather than scalp Indians. Perhaps you liked it better the old way?

I have Kierkegaard fancier's disease.

Wait, since when is being unreflective a part of rocking out?

Well, you do tend to lose awareness of the people around you.

1&38 get it right

Apostropher, that anecdote justifies the ways of God to man.

Ben W, Let me predict that you will enjoy Kierkegaard a great deal. I'd start with Sickness Unto Death. On the serious question, there's really the issue of whether being unreflective is a deficit, or whether it is at times the appropriate response to being a limited human being. I mean, if we subject every aesthetic experience to the scrutiny of the angelic perspective, it will turn out that it all sucks. Journey sucks, Sufjan Stevens sucks, the Beatles suck, and we should spent every moment listening to the Bach B minor mass (if that). But we can't be that way. So, is it unreflective-in-the-pejorative-sense to rock out to Journey, or is it instead an appropriate recognition of the kind of thing we are?

Ben's going through an exceptionally defensive phase right now, isn't he?

At my URL (footnote ii) I explain that "Lolita" was a road novel three years before "On the Road", and that not only that, Humbert Humbert and Dean Moriarty (and Vladimir Nabakov and Neal Cassidy) might have crossed paths in Colorado, and not only that, my mother and father might also have crossed paths with the two of them in Colorado while I was still in the womb. There are no coincidences. Also, I have a few things to say about age-of-consent laws.

I don't actually use "unreflective" pejoratively. (I might have in this thread, but I shouldn't have.) I just don't think it should be exalted.

Ben's going through an exceptionally defensive phase right now, isn't he?

I'm just upset that Tim apparently thinks I'm going to try to cheat on him.

I dare someone to ask me about my forthcoming Schlegel essay.

Tell us about your Schlegel essay. Like Hegel, but more Jewish sounding?

But a dialectic isn't green.

I don't actually want to talk about it.

So you could paint it green.

The Scorpions? Please.

Journey sucks, Sufjan Stevens sucks, the Beatles suck

The reductio ad absurdum fails here,

Who's Schlegel? Let's just start there.

It doesn't hang on the wall, either.

73: I know I know! Well, I knew but forgot. Goes wit Schelling and Winckelmeier.

He was someone who prated about irony, and many followed him in prating about it then (during his life, that is), or are prating of it afresh just now. He and his brother (also named Schlegel), in proximity to the renaissance of philosophy, being covetous of novelty and with a thirst for what was striking and extraordinary, appropriated as much of the philosophical ideas of the time as their natures, which were anything but philosophical, and essentially of the critical stamp, were capable of absorbing. Neither of them can claim the reputation of a speculative thinker.

So you could put in on the wall.

Okay. And what's your argument, in this paper?

Don't think I'm not hip to your scheme, here, b.

OK, wise guy, but no way does a dialectic sing.

The dialectic is the singing. It's a duet.

79, see 66.

But see 69.

"79, see 66", see 69.

The formal niceties were worth the pwning.

Oh. Missed that. Well in that case, redact 66; you're the one with the keys.

85 gets it exactly right.

Or so the mullahs would have you believe.

God I'm sick of that joke already.

But not sick of the kitten! I'll never tire of that darn kitten.

Hey w-lfs-n, you can help me on this. Who is that new British singer, young woman, with a bit of a space-age longue act vibe? Has this song about going round London and watching a mugging. I can't recall her name and it's been killing me.

75:Winckelmann.

I think I know the person, but I too always forget her name (if indeed we've got the same person in mind).

Arggh! You were my only hope.

The Scorpions are from Hanover, Germany. That, plus the lack of a speed limit on the autobahn, cuts down on the "only in america" factor.

space-age longue act

This would be a good euphemism for fellatio. Or perhaps cunnilingus.

sez da friggin' expert.

Do you disagree?

I like to think America is riding a bike 5mph over the limit, listening to the Scorpions.

The new british singer I was thinking of is Lily Allen. Apparently she's got a video that involves a mugging. That her?

That is definitely Lily Allen.

Also in that song she rhymes "Tesco" with "al fresco".

You may have had trouble Googling her song because it uses the Generation Y affectation of being entitled "LDN" (abbreviation for London).

98: I mean, that's okay as a euphemism. I'll try it out tomorrow and see how it goes.

If you can remember a snippet of the lyrics, baa, you can probably google it (though you've probably done this).

There is a mugging in this Lily Allen video.

I'm certain it's Lily Allen. There are videos of LDN and "Smile" on youtube.

103: I'm not wedded to it. It's just the first thing that came to mind when I saw baa's typo.

Get yer mind out of the gutter, dood.

Thank you unfogged community!

There's also a mugging in this Lily Allen video. Odd.

So, I had a conversation with a guy who comments at Wonkette today. I told him of the superiority of the unfoggedariat, but he was unconvinced. We should have a Battle Royale.

Wonkette has commenters?

I know of at least two who are registered.

Look here, for example.

I did actually know that Wonkette had commenters. I'd never read the comments before, though. They're kind of lame.

Right. We could destroy them.

I'm sure we could, but why bother?

Teo, this Amuri-fucking-cka. We destroy.

Gotta admit though, good story about the making out with the second cousin.

Don't go bringing the riff-raff over here, Stanley.

Charity, ogged. It's that time of year.

Apparently it's the lonely time of the year. This pic on postsecret, (have to cut and past the link cause Blogger blows)

http://photos1.blogger.com/x/blogger/994/593/1600/694331/meet.jpg

was followed by these two emails. Doesn't get much more desperate than this.

-----Email Message----- Sent: Sunday, December 3, 2006 8:22 AM

This Saturday evening I will be waiting for you too. This invitation does not mean that I want to do anything or talk during the movie. But when the darkness leaves the theatre, perhaps we will look into each other's eyes, smile, decide to get a cup of coffee and share a conversation over what we just saw.

-waiting with a white hat

-----Email Message-----
Sent: Sunday, December 3, 2006 12:42 PM
To: frank@docdel.com

i bought a white hat today.

-searching on saturdays

I must sleep. Stay gold, and all that.

Me too. Good night, everyone.

Well, the feeling isn't Germany because out there on the autobahn there is no limit. And how awesome is that?

You're doing 100 mph in the right-hand lane on the way back from Salzburg because that's all you feel like doing, and there's someone passing you in the middle lane, and there's someone passing them in the left-hand lane. Don't know if they're listening to Scorpions, but there's bound to be serious Doppler on their way by.

Germany even has an equivalent of "...cold dead hands." It's "free driving for free citizens."

Sure, you can drive from one end of the country to the other in time for dinner. But that's mostly because, conditions permitting, you can do it at about 120 mph. My nerves are good enough to handle 150 for very limited periods of time, but zipping along at about 110-120 is most excellent.

The last time I did this, I had a new BMW diesel (!) with a six-speed transmission, and sixth wasn't even really useful until you got up above 85 mph or so. At one point of this trip, a group of about six or seven Porsches got on together. They hung with traffic at around 110 for a few minutes, probably to make sure that everyone was there, and then there was obviously some signal. Because they all took off. Accelerated visibly from above 110, and soon they were just gone. Zoom.

Oh yeah, and when you don't want to be bothered to find a parking space (that is a problem), there's regular trains that hit 200 mph on certain stretches. The need for speed.

125: As I pointed out, effete Eurotrash Nazis have long outdone us on this supposedly echt-American driving behavior. Rather than try to compete, we should just realize that from here on out the future of America lies in sitting at home, drinking, and pecking at computers.

125: I'd still rather drive in Italy. Higher density of elevated highways and tunnels. And plenty of autobahnen are two lane: the speed differentials can be huge and terrifying. The drivers in the south are the worst: one moment, nothing in your mirror; one microsecond later, some fat bayerisch bastard in a tuned Audi S4 up you.

Driving in Utah - around Christmas 1994 - was good. Cold and dry, empty roads, blue skies, etc.

One of the Schlegels was the moving force behind the standard German translation of Shakespeare (I forget whether it was Auguste or his brother Friedrich). He and his collaborator Tieck.

German types will insist that Schlegel and Tieck is *better* than the original Shakespeare. It's what Shakespeare was trying to write, what he would have written, had he not had to struggle with the impoverishing confines of Elizabethan English.

62--dude, you don't have to take the angelic perspective to see that Journey sucked. Any perspective that includes ears will do it for you.

headline:
"Aide: Bush Not Seeking Cover for Pullout"

isn't there a rule about the headline "I will not resign"?

I'd still rather drive in Italy

Driving in Italy was nice, except in Rome. That was terrifying.

A pack of cigarettes, a full tank of gas, 5 mixed tapes and the open road = freedom.

Nazis and Fascists the lot of you. Hitler and Mussolini effectively designed the interstate system, you know.

Driving in Italy's ok - the best thing is that on the 2 lane highways the lorries aren't allowed to overtake, so you never get stuck behind one. Would like to go to Germany, just for the hell of it. But in a better car.

My favourite european drive at the moment is the Eurotunnel, although I'm not sure that really counts as a driving experience. Fun though, and so quick and easy.

And there is definitely something about the American roadtrip - I'd like to do that one day too.

Don't know where I first encountered the names, probably some secondary Nietzsche or Kierkkeggaarrdd stuff, but the Schlegels, Schelling, and Schiller would have made a fine barbershop quartet, unless one or more of them was dead.

Saturday night I was exploring the pre-Raphaels, especially Burne-Jones, who really wasn't cept sorta, so Winckelmann and the German Romantics were on my mind. Then w-lfs-n mentions Schlegel, and I am reminded of SEK's work on Keats as part of his work on the enematic Kellogg or someone like him and lesbian sites. SEK inspired me to download Herland. Everything connects. Laocoon in the Well of Loneliness.

I have already moved on to Japanese woodcuts. I do too have a sense of humour.

How's this for Romanticism.

mixed tapes

And if you stop for iced cream, even better.