You are sharpening along the edge rather than directly on top of the edge, right?

Other than suggesting you wait until the knife-sharpening man comes calling around your block, I got nothing.

At our house we have some sort of nifty automatic sharpener where you just put the knife in some slot, hit a button and move the knife back and forth. (Or something similar, I've only seen it used, I haven't done it myself.)

Why not take them to a pro?

Steels are only for maintaining an edge (and should be used much more often than most people think).

You can get a good edge with a stone or ceramic, but it takes a bit of practice. The main problem is maintaining a consistent stroke. Once you are good at sharpening tools, it is pretty easy, but if you go at it the wrong way you easily end up with a half assed job.

You options are

- buy a gadget
- send them out for professional sharpening

if you buy something, you have expensive (say $100 to $150) but easy electrics, inexpensive manual ones (say $25-50) that require work and/or skills, cheap electrics that don't work well, and cheap manuals that don't work well.

If everythings in bad shape, having them all done at once professionally and then aquiring a steel and keeping them up (depends a bit on steel quality) may keep you going for a while.

I don't know of an online resource off the top of my head, but I'll look. I happen to know Cooks Illustrated recently did a good review article on what's out there. If you can find a copy (or perhaps access on their website) it will outline everything.

Regardless of how they were sharpened, if you want to keep them up you should get a steel and use it at least every few times you use a knife.

As usual, Wikipedia knows a lot about this stuff.

Incidentally, under a different pseudonym I actually wrote the first wikipedia article on "Knife." It's somewhat stunning to realize that it was only 2001 when Wikipedia didn't have a Knife article.

I too am unsure of myself when sharpening and in fact fucked up a knife (not irremediably, but stupidly) by doing things backwards.

I have a two-sided 4000/1000 grit waterstone and am fairly confident that, if I don't significantly sharpen them, I at least don't dull my knives terribly. I soak the stone until it's sponged up all the water it's going to, lay it down on a towel so it doesn't slide, and sharpen using two pennies at the far end as a guide for the angle. The knife lies on the stone with its blade towards me and the tip pointing up and to the left (or right depending on the side of the blade being currently sharpened) at about a 45-degree angle away from the length of the stone. Mostly I put pressure when moving the knife away from me, and not so much when pulling it towards, though I think you can do either. You might have to increase the angle w/r/t the stone closer to perpendicular when you get closer to the knife's handle. Feel occasionally for a lip curling on the non-sharpened side (but don't cut your fingers) and when one's formed sharpen the other side, then at some point switch to the higher grit, etc.

Here are some pictures where you can see someone doing something which is not actually identical to what I've described. They purport to have a video but it's not working for me.

My mom uses the roll knife sharpener seen here. Her "good knife" is old, but still sharp as hell, so I assume it works.

The chef's choice electric knife sharpeners work quickly and well, and they don't even cost that much. Failing that most fancy grocery stores will sharpen them for you for a nominal fee. Surrender to the division of labor...

I think there was a recent Cook's Illustrated rating electric sharpeners.

But with an electric sharpener you might never get this feeling.

ben: better

- 15 to 20 degree angle on the edge
- edge facing direction of stroke (avoids creating burs)
- alternate sides each stroke (helps avoid burs, keeps it centered if done properly)
- oil is better, but messier
- lighten up your stroke after a while, you should finish up on the smooth stone with very little pressure
- a few quick strops or passes on the steel (blade facing you) lightly to remove burs and you are done.

one more note, the length of stone matters, you should be able to get along the whole length of the blade in one motion without cross cutting too radically (45ish?)

it's hard to get a good natural whetstone these days.

I've actually got a gadget, but it's a bad gadget (that is, I've been using it on our knives, and then someone gave us a new knife at Christmas, and it is infinitely sharper than the gadget-sharpened knives.)

So, Ben, what do you actually do with the pennies? Rest the back edge of the knife on them?

good stones properly used and sized (and with enough grits) work as well as anything, but it is a skill. If you maintain shears and chisels etc. it may be more worth the investment than if you just want to occasionally fix kitchen knives.

11: I'm assuming he rests the knife on them to try and keep a consistent angle. If I'm picturing it correctly, it's too steep for most uses

The model 120 or 130:

http://www.chefschoice.com/page2a.html

I've used every method of sharpening known to humans over the years and either of those are the quickest and easiest way to get a good edge suitable for "normal" use in a kitchen.

I just discovered that it took until early 2004 before anyone removed my horribly awkwardly phrased "based on the simple machine concept of a wedge" from the first sentence of the Knife article.

Well you can't reallly rest the edge of the knife on them since you're moving the knife for each stroke (global actually makes guides that you can attach to the back of the knife, but they seem too big), but you can use them for reference at the beginning/end of the stroke.

- alternate sides each stroke (helps avoid burs, keeps it centered if done properly)

My knives are supposed to have the edge predominantly on one side—something like 70/30—so this wouldn't work for me, but perhaps for LB.

LB, biohazards 14 points out the electrics that magazine article liked best; if you don't mind the cost those are probably your best bet.

16: ah, well you are probably still better off alternating if your ratio is already correct. You don't need to destroy the existing edge unless you are taking out nicks; you can always alternate assymettrically, too.

If I'm picturing it correctly, it's too steep for most uses

? It's certainly no more than 15 degrees.

she want 20 degrees or so. 15 would be a minimum. Are we using `steep' oppositely?

.... erm, i meant `steep' thinking about the knife's edge, but suspect that is counterintuitive and you are thinking of the angle between knife and sharpener...

I think we are. I'm just following my sister's advice and that of the site I linked above, man.

11, 17: Hrm, if you're recommending the Chef's Choice electric thing from personal experience, I suppose I won't worry that the bad gadget that I have now is also Chef's Choice, albeit manual.

the gypsies can do a good job.

22: IMX the various common manual gadgets don't work anywhere near as well as the three station CC electrics. I can get hyper-sharp edges using various manual whetstones and lots of patience but that edge doesn't last long in a kitchen anyway.

I tend to use stones and/or ceramics, but a) they are already set up on a bench so there is little setup or cleanup time and b) I've worked in kitchens and machine shops and have a pretty good hand for it. So I can't recommend an electric from personal experience, but I suspect it's the easiest way to go.

I don't know how long a $100 electric will last though.

Dude, just go to a knife-sharpening place once a year, and use one of those two-ceramic-wheels-next-to-each-other dealies with a handle that costs fifteen bucks during the intervening months.

26: those two wheel dealies are nasty

A lengthy article about the theory and practice of knife sharpening, with recommendations for a number of sharpening systems.

Look up "grinding shop" in the yellow pages. Won't cost more than a few bucks a knife. At least that's the case at the place I go to in Sunset Park. That plus a hone is all you need.

I endorse the CC electric sharpener, as well - unless you have Shuns or other Asian-style knives, which take a slightly different angle - 15 degrees v. 18-22. Chef's Choice also makes a sharpener for them.

i used to read a lot of knife-knut websites.
consensus on them was to use the spyderco sharpmaker.
i bought one and could suddenly sharpen knives.
(i had previously owned a variety of knife dulleners).

SpyderCo makes some neat-looking knives.

i see the link in 28 says most of what i would have said (or repeated) about the spyderco sharpmaker, as well as having pics.

the trick of it dwells in human physiology:
we're lousy creatures at maintaining a consistent angle that is low to the horizon, as is needed with a stone lying on a table.

we're actually pretty good creatures when it comes to maintaining a consistent vertical angle, i.e. straight up.

so with the sharpmaker, you hold the blade straight up and down, and the device holds the stones at the correct angle off vertical.

anyhow--works very well, even with serrateds.

32--
yeah, nearly all neat-looking, some of them also extremely good.
but they employ a lot of designers, materials, and even factories for fabrication, so there is a range of quality.
delica and endura have been solid choices for years. police and military models up on the extreme end towards weaponry.
your best bet for sort of an all-around non-extreme pocketknife might be the paramilitary.

oh--and i almost forgot. if you haven't looked at pocket-knife prices in a few decades, companies like this will make your jaw drop. you can easily spend over $100. for a pocketknife. (and that's not even counting the custom knife-makers, where $400-$1000 is more common).

it's a weird subculture of its own. i don't recommend them as long-term companions. but if the question at hand is about how to sharpen knives, then they know about it.

I've wondered about this a lot. I have both some random cheapass knives that I'd be happy to have sharpened by any monkey with an abrasive, and a couple of nice knives, but I haven't even been sure where to start looking. It would be nice to do it myself, I suppose, but it's been years since I changed my own oil, too, and I don't really feel like I'm missing out.

Bah to electric.

There's all kinds of stuff from Lansky, Gatco, etc., but not for the average kitchen knife user. Listen to kid bitzer and get the Spyderco. Can be had for a decent price from these guys. I've bought a number of things from them.

http://www.knifeworks.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1215

If you're going to get a folding knife, best bang for the buck are the Benchmade Griptilians, full size or mini. You're not going to touch that quality of steel and locking mechanism from in that price range anywhere else.

Mini
http://www.knifeworks.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1635

Full size
http://www.knifeworks.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1546

My dad got me one of these back before they added that lame spring.

I say Bah to the manual sharpener naysayers. The Smith's carbide knife & scissors sharpener was recommended by the NYT 3 years ago and again by Cook's (in the aforementioned electrics article), and by me now. I've had it for 3 years, use it every few weeks, and steel before every use, and my knives are fantastic - perhaps not as good as whetted (which I've done with so-so success), but really very good.

I'm happy enough with this little handheld that I don't think I would accept an electric as a gift, and I use my knives 6 days a week.

glad to see the gswift and i are still effectively maintaining the old codger bloc vote. yup, benchmade is what i carry, though some years ago i had a nice spyderco designed by terzuola.

39: Even older codgers are carrying a Spyderco (looking very much like the current Endura 4 in SS) for about 30 years. I switched to it after nearly cutting off a finger when, blinded by sweat and exhaustion, I didn't realize I had managed to get the sharp side of the old blade against my finger while cutting a loop of rope off a fallen tree limb during the tornado season. That's much harder to do with a Spyderco. The incident wasn't worthy of a Darwin Award but might have gotten me into the preliminaries.

Whatcha really need is one of these knives right here.

1) To keep a real edge on a knife you should go to the steel every time you use the knife, and you should be spending a serious amount of time with a wetstone at least once a month. That sort of routine is the problem most home users (me included) have. Modern blades ("stainless high carbon") are also a problem, because they are harder in a way that makes it more difficult to put an edge on them. If you have knives either older thatn 25 years that are expensive ones or that are high carbon but not stainless bought since (hard to find) you can get a better edge.

2) I can't overstate the difference it makes if you occassionally get your knives sharpened by a pro, even if you have a good routine. Last fall, a traveling couple out of Austin TX passed through here en route to knife-and-gun shows. I had them sharpen all of my knives and they were beautiful when done. I could have shaved with them. I would get that done once ever six months if I had access. In NYC, there has got to be a pro who will pick up and deliver-- someone who does this in pro kitchens.

3) I'm assuming here you have really nice knives, even if of the carbon/stainless variety. You can't keep a good edge on a cheap knife and just like with any lousy tool will just make yourself unhappy.

4) For the home wetstone and steel thing, I really think it's a bad idea to have an electric sharpener for a lot of reasons. A couple of stones, one slightly rougher to start with and a finer one to finish, is what you need. There are two kinds of steel, one that has bits of diamond and one not. The former do some grinding. I have heard professional chefs take wildly divergent views-- either that the diamond is a good thing or that it will hurt your knives. I use both, but only go to the diamond steel when I think the knife edge needs a little more work.

I thought that you sharpened knives by heating them and then plunging them into the body of a slave or captive. I guess I'm old-fashioned that way.

John, that heating and plunging routine to harden the blade, not to sharpen it. The thought is some carbon gets into the iron's structure and converts it to steel. I don't know how true it is but it might be therapeutic to find out.

No wonder my knives haven't been getting sharp.