you'd come across the picture of someone with his/her ex when you were flipping through an old photo album with them, and there'd be a brief moment of "oh, yeah..." before moving on.
You left out the part about ripping that person out of the photo and then tearing up his/her image into little bitty bits and throwing it on the floor and stamping on them. Sometimes some burning involved too.
I never followed such a protocol myself, but I'm told it's standard.
I'm not sure I understand -- do you just want people to delete pictures of old relationships?
Actually, if I were in a relationship with someone I'd probably want them to take the pictures of the ex off their flickr account. Okay to save them burned to a CD somewhere in the bottom of a drawer, but posting them to Flickr is a little too much like having them displayed around one's apartment.
And I'm not ashamed to admit that I have no idea what the title of this post means. Should I be?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayyid_Qutb
Ogged, they're all bad people who are going to hell. Don't sugar-coat the pill.
ogged: Do you think there's a difference in the way younger folk approache relationships and the way old people do? (I do.) Do you suspect that their way is better? (I do.)
Do you suspect that their way is better?
Only if getting into heaven doesn't matter to you.
How do you think they're different, SCMT?
Is the idea supposed to be that the young people these days go into a relationship expecting there to be exes, and that most information about those exes is permanently and publicly stored?
In many ways, I am not of this generation awesome.
I share ogged's feelings about this (but not in a prescriptive way). For me what's weird isn't so much the idea of the new S.O. seeing the ex on Flicker, as the ex having to see the new S.O.
I would forgive the young people of today if they had casual sex with me instead of always just with each other. Forgiveness would be so easy to get, but they're heedless.
4: Oh, so you're saying Ogged got a bad haircut.
12: that happened to me. The ex- complained I was flaunting the new relationship, even though several months had passed. (Of course, the ex- is several years older and probably just doesn't understand.)
several months had passed
You're not even supposed to be out of half-mourning at that point.
8: It's tough to say (because I'm not sure), and doubly tough to say briefly (because I feel like it's complicated), but something like JM in #9. In some way, the kids today seem less angsty about sex than I was/probably am. They've diminished the importance of it without demeaning it, and I see that as wildly beneficial both to relationships and individuals.
OTOH, their teen romcom's suck.
12 makes a lot more sense than the original post.
15: I have non idea who your ex is, obviously, but it would be hard for her to be cuter than eek. You can't entirely blame her.
I think the kids today are just differently angsty, not less so. Angst springs eternal.
Like, the ones who aren't getting laid, or are only getting laid once or twice a year, and get all freaked out about it. Damnit, back in the old days we were *glad* to get laid once in a blue moon....
You're not even supposed to be out of half-mourning at that point
Isn't there some goofy equation for how long one is to mourn? Is the time for the the breaker-upper different from the breakee-upee?
I don't think 22 fixes 21.
Whatever, Clowny, you know what I meant, right?
If there's an equation, I don't know it.
I don't mean a real equation, but sort of like that "half+seven" thing (and all its variants) for age differences.
I was thinking something like (0.25) x (total time spent dating).
Clearly, I'm insane.
No, I've heard that too, Stanley, but I can't remember the equation now either.
i feel like i've always heard it was half the time you were in the relationship. that might have been from a SATC episode. and we should all sincerely hope it is not true.
Considering the breaker-up's reason is starting with new, if s/he hasn't already, and the non-breaker is often surprised and in need of mourning, a different time is practically a given.
My vague recollection is also half the time; that seems both way too long and just about right.
There's more a mourning obligation for the breaker-upper, right? If the breaked-upon gets over things quickly, no harm no foul. But this ignores that 90% of cases are mutual.
This young/old dichotomy is crap.
Get off my lawn, whippersnapper.
Were you the b'upper or the b'uppee, Stanley? If you were the b'uppee, then your ex- complaining about you flaunting a new relationship seems pretty f'upped.
Even if you were the b'upper, I can see her thinking ill of you for flaunting. But actually telling you about it is just pathetic and/or disturbingly controlling, so you obviously made the right choice.
half the time makes sense if the relationship was short. We need a logarithmic function. Or something.
34: It was a mix of mutual breakage, but I made the final no-really-that's-it-for-real break. And yes, definitely, on making the right choice.
Of course, I still think ill of you for flaunting.
Every time I've heard the "half the time" equation -- which is certainly the most common c.w. in my experience -- there was a cap of something like one or two years.
I think I've heard the half the time thing, but more in a "that's how long it will take you to really psychologically be done with it" than in a "that's what's proper" way.
"Isn't there some goofy equation for how long one is to mourn?".
My mom waited for 3-4 years for her fiance in WWII. Then when he was liberated (he'd been captured) he married someone else. My mom was heart-broken and cried for three days.
"Three days!?" said my sisters. "You should have cried for at least a month!"
Within a month she married my Dad, whom she'd known for 2-3 weeks, and lived happily ever after.
Her fiance is still alive at 94. We found a picture of him on the internet (he has a unique non-American name) right before my mom died and showed it to her. He was the star member of a fitness club.
9 is pretty close. It's not that we expect that relationships are temporary, exactly, but more that we accept that chances are good that after a break-up, the ex will be, if not friends, probably in the person's circle of friends and acquaintances, for some time. This is true especially of my college circle. People would be friends for a couple years, date, and then break up, but they're all friends with each other's friends, so the option are either to split the friends, ostracize one person, or grow up, ignore each other for a while, and then be friends again.
I am apparently punctuating my sentences by taking a handful of commas and whipping them at the text.
a SATC episode
I only just this minute realized that the name of that show is Sex and the City and not Sex in the City.
I always thought it was "Sexing the City"
announcing it to everybody doesn't make it ok to whip me with commas.
45: Didn't realize it 'till you pointed it out, big guy. And I liked the first few seasons of that show.
31: 90%? You're joking, right?
I've said it before, but this business of taking your lovers from among your circle of friends and acquaintances, and expecting to return to that relationship afterwards, seems odd to me. It occurs to me this might be more natural to people who actually have a circle of friends, but still.
90%? You're joking, right?
My observations say that something like 90% of (hetero) break-ups are initiated by the female and are mutual only in the sense that one partner doesn't take the other as a hostage.
It doesn't return to the same thing. It couldn't. It's just that there's no easy way to cut the person out of your life when they're rooming with your best friend, so you deal.
See, healthier. Really, we ought to think about implementing some sort of Logan's Run policy, for the good of the country.
90% seems high to me, unless by 'mutual' we mean 'one party initiates the break-up but the other person doesn't stalk them or cry on the phone after them and moves on maturely.'
I got dumped shortly after starting graduate school, but if we want to get technical, he said he didn't love me any more but didn't want to break up, and two weeks later I told him to go to hell. Was that mutual? Seems not to me, but at the point where we broke up, I wasn't interested in fighting for it any more.
I'm guessing you're on board with the free sex, but not so much the life clock and age-coordinated clothing.
Renew! Renew!
I don't know from marriages, but when people are dating, it's not that hard to see that your partner is dissatisfied. That in itself can cause dissatisfaction. I don't mean that most break-ups are desired equally, but that they don't exactly come out of the blue.
My wife's ex destroyed my car by sugaring my gas; someone I broke off with let herself into my room and threw everything of mine she could fit into a full hot bathtub with cocoa and tea. Dealing would have been so nice.
Perhaps my friends are just more fractured already, since there's a lot of moving around, but for the breakups of longterm relationships there's often been very explicit lines drawn. Some people refuse to hear the name of the ex, ever, others try to micromanage friends' interactions with the ex, and in a few instances, the ex is ritually drummed out. There have been some more sane breakups, people dealing and getting over the relationship, but those tend to occur either with less serious couples or with marriages.
you have to admit, the cocoa and tea was a nice touch.
But shit like 58 is just wrong wrong wrong.
58: Wow. Sugar in the gas tank is hard core.
In college, I had a girlfriend physically attack me and another woman while we were in the shower (always get your key back immediately, kids). This was three weeks *after* the girlfriend had dumped me. Apparently I hadn't mourned long enough or something.
59: Probably. I've noticed it with my own friends. It's a lot easier just not to talk to someone when chances are they're on the other side of the country now.
58: Damn.
Gas-tank-sugarin' and such is insane, and I will never understand that. The last wedding I went to, the groom had as his best "man" the woman to whom he'd been engaged a few years before. She was sincerely thrilled for them and happy to be there in support of the wedding. People need to learn to cope.
The same ex dumped hot coffee on her when she was with one of her friends, and mine attacked me by throwing stuff. I ducked easily but the rage scared me and I was shaken. These events did not occur in the same timeframe, nor did they arise out of the same transaction.
I thought the Mythbusters had busted sugar in the tank?
Certainly most breakups don't come totally out of the blue, but that's not at all to say that they're mutual in any way relevent to the dumper/dumpee distinction.
I ducked easily
I had to pick up the flailing ex-girlfriend, carry her down the stairs (no mean feat) and physically throw her out the front door, while I was dripping wet and naked. That was the last date with the new woman, who was roundly and understandably freaked out by the entire scene.
Man. I can't think of when I've heard stories of this sort of thing happening to anyone I know in real life -- a certain amount of sadness or hostility, sure, but never violence or property damage.
dripping wet and naked
Geez, apo, this is a family website. Are you trying to corrupt all of our minds?
this is a family website
The Manson Family, maybe.
breaking up is hard to do
but it really depends on the relationship. Cala, you have mature friends. Some of my friends ex's from college, well, good god it was funny. actually, that includes me. drunk and jealous is not a good answer to any question.
I once broke up with a guy who, in the course of the evening's conversation before I managed to break the news to him, told a story like IDP and apo's as though it had happened to a friend. A nice little story about "his friend" breaking into his mostly ex-girlfriend's apartment and cutting up all her clothes and her down comforter. Then, after I broke up with him, he talked on and on about how much he'd loved this woman, and I left feeling very glad that he had evidently not cared for me very much.
I was also very glad never to see that chappie again.
A good friend of mine's ex poisoned his cat when he dumped her. Poisoned his cat! And left it, dead, on his kitchen counter, with a note saying something to the effect of "now you'll be sorry to have left me." Sorry to have left he was not.
71: 'Manson' s/b 'Addams'
do do do dit *snap snap*
Not all of my friends have handled all breakups maturely. This includes me, but I was nineteen. But we're all at the point where we can attend parties or the weddings of other friends without it ruining the night.
"but that's not at all to say that they're mutual in any way relevent to the dumper/dumpee distinction."
Here we disagree.
The moral in all of this may just be that one shouldn't date people who are insane.
Easier said than done, I suppose.
I thought the Mythbusters had busted sugar in the tank?
Shortly after he must have done it, I drove the 300 miles home from Chicago, and by the time I arrived, it was running poorly. Then it wouldn't start. My dad, a physical chemist, helped me sleuth it. Little caramelized bits were all through the system, and I could never stop them from plugging the jets. I must have tried cleaning the tank and rebuilding the carburetor five-six times over the next few months.
Drew us together, maybe in mortification, all though we were pretty serious from the git-go. And since it was a Beetle, probably a good thing, as my wife's a Yekka.
63: She must have decided that dumping was too good for you.
but never violence or property damage
The college girlfriend was my only direct experience with it, but I've seen it plenty. One set of friends (McManlyPants, you probably know who I'm talking about) during one of their many separations, the woman came home to find her wedding dress in the bathtub, covered with urine and shit. For some sense of their history, nobody who knew them was much surprised by this.
Against everybody's advice, this couple is still married.
wedding dress in the bathtub, covered with urine and shit
See, this is at least artistic. Not just reckless violence.
Sugar in the gas tank is hard core.
Mythbusters claim this is bogus.
mcmc! Able to judge the artistic quality of breakup violence, and maybe take a picture.
My two best friends and the resident head of the old Shoreland cleaned out the tub while I sat by in shock. He just kept saying "This is so inappropriate." My friend, also my Best Man and a great friend of my wife, will sometimes kid me about that even now.
Much like a drug company's clinical trial that interprets "lowered LDL cholesterol for six months in healthy people" as "will reduce the risk heart attacks over the entire lifetime of non-healthy people", the weakness of the Mythbusters' results comes when they try to investigate something that takes a long time to happen as shown in 79.
What's with the concept of chill breakups? If it's mature and calm and professional on both sides, there wasn't much passion or feeling there to begin with, n'est ce pas?
Not that I'm asking to have my gas tank sugared, mind you.
It was slow-acting, as I described above, but it eventually made the car undriveable. And my dad demonstrated what it was with a battery of solvents and a flame test, and that same stuff kept blocking the jets until I gave up. Or shall we try it on your car?
I agree with 86 to an extent. I can't even imagine having an actual passionate relationship with somebody and then going back to having a casual friendship. All my exes have dropped completely out of my life as soon as we broke up. The breakups themselves were never full of anger, though. More like resignation to the inevitable.
McManlyPants, you probably know who I'm talking about
I don't know the specific story, but I'll bet I could guess it in fewer than three.
Or shall we try it on your car?
I ride a bike, IDP. But, I'm sorry. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Fortunately, the worst I've had to put up with is stalkery behavior.
Ah, the fine often-invisible line between stalking_it's-not-really-stalking and stalking_totally-creepy.
If it's mature and calm and professional on both sides, there wasn't much passion or feeling there to begin with, n'est ce pas?
I am a frigid cow, but it's just not the case that failure to destroy someone's property indicates a lack of passion earlier in the relationship.
In my experience, at least, it's either inevitable (it's either find a new group of friends, or deal), or just that my response to being scorned is pretty much to decide that someone isn't worth the time.
I mean, it doesn't go back to being sunshine and roses immediately, and there's been a fair amount of 'don't sit so and so next to so and so at the wedding' or 'are you okay with seeing X at the game?' or 'I'm not really talking to him these days', but with one exception, everyone I've dated seriously is now someone I could call and talk to with very little awkwardness.
? If it's mature and calm and professional on both sides, there wasn't much passion or feeling there to begin with, n'est ce pas?
Maybe that means there relationships shouldn't be forced to bear the weight of expectations of Happily Ever After.
If it's mature and calm and professional on both sides, there wasn't much passion or feeling there to begin with, n'est ce pas?
That seems pretty silly. Some people learn to control themselves.
All my exes have dropped completely out of my life as soon as we broke up.
I'm still very good friends with my ex-wife—live in the same neighborhood and she sometimes comes to my current in-laws' for holidays, even—but having a kid together changes the math of that equation significantly. If we didn't have a child, I don't know whether we'd still be in touch or not. I like to think so, though.
The boyfriend before the Biophysicist [hereinafter, B3] went around telling one of two stories after I broke up with him: a) that he'd discovered I was secretly a lesbian and was exploiting him [how was unclear, as I paid half the household expenses]; and b) that I was part of a secret sex cult and flew around the country having sex with hundreds of men [given that he'd seen me every day for several years, this was the more delusional].
Amusingly, B3 told a colleague that I was An Evil Dyke, causing her to call me, asking through gales of laughter just how long I'd been playing on her team. B3 didn't know that she wasn't het - after all, she had a daughter and wore make-up and dresses.
The worst thing he did was steal my SF signed first editions, some by Heinlein, which are today worth actual money. However, the universe took care of all of the above by killing him. I figure it was the book-stealing that really pissed off the Powers That Be, as my first husband tried the "she must be a lesbian routine" routine, as well. Why can't people accept that sometimes we leave them because of them, not because of some other person.
Why can't people accept that sometimes we leave them because of them, not because of some other person.
The answer to that seems obvious.
95: I was good friends with the Offspring's dad for quite a while - until Wife #2 came into the picture. She hates my son, even found a divorce attorney who tried to argue that the ex shouldn't have to pay child support because the Offspring is adopted. That started fireworks and a prolonged and expensive legal battle, and the ex and I have barely spoken civilly since. Absent Wife #2, I think we would have gone on being friends.
97: It wasn't actually a question.
went around telling one of two stories
My parents went through a pretty ugly split about the time I was graduating from high school that included my father telling people my mother had molested my brother and me. This was not the truth and the sheer nastiness of it shocked all of us, as it seemed so utterly out of character for him. A few months later he was diagnosed with an aggressively malignant brain tumor and all sorts of previously inexplicable things made a lot more sense.
Plus, it's fun being friends with exes years after. Because then, when you're merrily tipsy at 2am, and someone asks your ex, who you're having a great time talking to, how you two know each other, and he blushes, you can purr, 'Oh, come on, tell him how you broke my heart' and order more margaritas.
I have exes I'd like to be friends with, and I've even tried to find some online. My wife's most serious ex stays in touch with us, and we're on his holiday card list. But not everybody.
101: For men, the downside to that situation is that you can't make jokes about how big your pecker is when there's someone to call you on it.
Since the title of this post makes no sense, you should have just gone all out and called it "Gleaming the Qutb".
Can you hammer a six-inch spike through a board with your penis?
The title makes perfect sense, you bozo.
110 to 108. Once again, Ogged ruins everything.
78 -- but then you would miss out on the hott insane-person sex.
Okay, then one should not break up with people who are insane. Better to have them killed once the sex starts getting predictable.
What's going on? 84 is posted by i don't pay but it concerns an experience of the Apostropher's.
IDP's tub in 84 first appeared in comment 58.
114: If comes down to them or your cat, okay.
116 -- ah. So many defiled bathtubs! Hey btw, here's somebody else who went to Chicago.
That's some chin Nic is sporting.
Some people learn to control themselves.
Wasn't suggesting property damage was a requirement, just that calm, professional pretend-nothing-happened and then be-good-friends about it within the year seems weird to me.
Cala's interaction w/ exes is to be envied, I think...
Maybe that means there relationships shouldn't be forced to bear the weight of expectations of Happily Ever After.
A tough opinion to bring up when a-courtin'.
Also, mental note: don't post comment then take hour-long Metro trip home.
A tough opinion to bring up when a-courtin'.
Maybe. But it might seem worth the initial difficulty in Years 2, 7, and 20 (IIRC).
I am seriously wondering about y'all's taste in people to date. I've had bad breakups. But IME that means someone gets very sad and cries, and then maybe writes letters/calls/comes over a lot, awkwardness ensues, and eventually they realize they're no longer wanted and cry some more and go away.
And (of course) shit on your wedding dress.
Actually, I had the damn thing cleaned and packed in a box after the wedding. Then, about half a dozen moves later, I finally just threw the fucking thing away.
But what will PK wear when his wedding day comes?
124 seems right to me. I'm all about being hurt and angry and eternally scarred and shit, but this Fatal Attraction stuff is a bit weird.
127: He can wear my great-grandmother's wedding dress, which someone preserved and which, on account of antiquity and actual handmade lace, I am not going to toss. Although I do have to find where the movers packed it and put it in actual acid-free paper.
Why must this thread devolve into horror stories? If Apo had been in Generation Awesome, his ex-girlfriend would have arrived at the shower to take part in the traditional Goodbye Threesome. I'm voting for the first Presidential candidate to campaign on a Logan's Run policy.
How many Generation Awesome's do you know in real life, Rosebot?
Hey, check out the optical illusion that makes it look like I put an apostrophe on "Awesome."
That's okay, it *is* your second language.
Why must you kill the dream, ogged? The GA'ers IRL that I know well-enough to know anything about their relationship/sex-lives are people I knew from a couple of local hangouts. Almost certainly not representative. I'm mostly inferring from the fake GA'ers I read on the Internets.
Is there something in your religion that prevents hoping for a brighter, better tomorrow, Shi'a? (And more seriously--don't you think that they seem more mellow about this stuff than we were/are?)
I dunno, the ones that hang out here seem particularly chill and cool, but there are a few blogs that I read by people in Generation Awesome that scream Avoid! Avoid! Maybe you, Timbot, just attract cool people, so you don't know about the crazies.
Or maybe I close my eyes to unpleasant realities when the need arises. For the good of the blog--nay, for the good of the country--you should start dating some GA'ers and report on how awesome they really are. w-lfs-n doesn't count.
re: mourning periods, etc.
I met a new partner, by sheer chance, a month or so after I broke up with someone I'd been with for a fairly long time (3 years or so). Unseemly haste? I don't know. Just depends how quickly the right person turns up. Fuck sack cloth and ashes.
And I certainly have mainted quite long friendships with exes with whom I've had fairly fractious and passionate/angry breakups, so it can certainly happen.
My first girlfriend, the one I lost my virginity with, we had a huge breakup scene, but after that we were too proud to descend into real insanity, so we settled for not speaking to each other. Given that we saw each other twice a week for LARP, this was awkward, but after about three months, we got better. At New Year's this year, we found each other and caught up on our lives for an hour, discussing current SOs and recent exs, traded cat stories. She's the best ex ever.
My most recent ex prior to my current relationships I am very happy that we broke up, because we were terribly unsuited for each other beyond a mutual 'haven't gotten laid in forever and you're cute' reaction. After three months of awkward attempts to build the relationship into something other than purely sexual, we broke up and both of us promptly found new people to date that were massively better for us. I'm very happy with the girl I met and she seems deliriously happy with her new boytoy.
Someone needs to make a joke about virginity and LARPing. I just don't have the chops to construct it.
I'm sure that Unfogged has someone that can rise to the occasion.
I'm strong enough to take the hit. After all, I did lose my virginity to a tall, pale, skinny goth girl who taught me how to put on eyeliner.
I doubt I'm in "Generation Awesome," but I did promise my boyfriend that if I were the one to break up with him, I'd find a girl for a threesome. That way, when I left for the last time, there'd still be someone else there. However, if he'd broken up with me and suggested a threesome, I'm not sure I would have been mature enough to avoid the types of behaviors described above.
"If it's mature and calm and professional on both sides, there wasn't much passion or feeling there to begin with, n'est ce pas?"
I had tremendous passion and feeling with my first serious boyfriend -- it just wore down over time due to the reason I never should have dated him in the first place. Because of the passion and feeling, I didn't have the sense not to date him in the first place, or break up with him at times when the reason became especially obvious. Eventually the wear and tear on my heart and soul was too much, and then we broke up. Now I just regard him as a man who is good but weak, and it's easy to be a distant kind of friends with someone like that. I'm sorry, though, because he was my best friend once and it's hard to think less of someone whom you used to respect more. Also all future boyfriends have on the one hand the automatic advantage of not having that reason against them, but the disadvantage of not trying to make up for it by being adoring. Did I mention my vanity along with the passion and feeling?
Sounds like you're a member of Generation Awesome to me, PG.
Does 144 imply that Standpipe has a cock? Does one need a cock to cockblock, or is it simply that one is blocking another's cock? In the event that one needs a cock for the purposes of cockblocking but doesn't have a cock, is it safe to assume that BPh.D.'s freezer houses an ample supply?
No one expects the Standpipish Interposition.
The cock is the universal signifier. Everone has access to the cock.
is it safe to assume that BPh.D.'s freezer houses an ample supply?
Oh yeah, baby.
Does one need a cock to cockblock, or is it simply that one is blocking another's cock?
No and yes. I mean, think about it; why would one need a cock to block a cock? Women cockblock all the time.
Women cockblock all the time.
Hmf. The much-revered Urban Dictionary agrees. I think people around these parts tend to use it when referring specifically to the actions of men. Interesting.
I do like the more-flexible definition.
I think people around these parts tend to use it when referring specifically to the actions of men.
Would those be the people around those parts who habitually wear pink polo shirts with upturned collars? Because if so, well...
153: Exactly. The local ruling class. Damn them and their oppressive cocks.
Dude, I know the theory. I'm saying, I have a problem with it.
Dude, good for you. I do, too. One of the miracles of language is that I can write things I don't mean literally.
The point of 148 was?
Also, come on, "Lacan holds the phallus". I gave you fruit, B. Fruit.
160: A fake rhetorical question. Think raised eyebrow and arch voice. I'm a mom: "what did you say?" is a stock phrase.
162: No, the fruit is behind the phallus.
A fake rhetorical question.
Honestly. It's too late for double meta reverse irony.
I'm a mom
You're a bitch, you're a lover, you're a child, you're a mother.
if he'd broken up with me and suggested a threesome, I'm not sure I would have been mature enough to avoid the types of behaviors described above
But wouldn't the appropriate thing be, if he broke up with you, for him to find a guy for a threesome? So there'd still be somebody?