I can confirm wikipedia's account of the Scottish colloquial expression. I'm not sure if the usage of the word makes the distinction between the two, though.

"initialism"?

What's wrong with just "TLA"? (or acronym).

Actually, if you believe wikipedia) that acronyms narrowly refer to "abbreviations pronounced as words" FUD would qualify, so I think it is errant pedantry to use "initialism"

I suspect you mean "arrant", but "errant" works too, so I'm at a loss.

I thought "acronym" was reserved to abbreviations that actually are words, like SPECTRE. Else I would have used it.

1: Does it rhyme with dud or dude?

The "errant pedantry" was a reference to a line attributed to Churchill (I suspect apocryphally). When told that he shouldn't end a sentence with a preposition he replied "this is the sort of errant pedantry up with which I shall not put."

It was a reach.

I think "arrant" is a pointless vestigial word that is only found attached to "nonsense"

Churchill's line is witty enough, but "this is the sort of errant pedantry I shall not tolerate." Not ending a sentence with a preposition is one of those things that oughtn't be an ironclad rule, but rather a good guidepost for avoiding colloquialisms and informal language.

Nice symmetry with "pud".

errant pedantry

I'm sure what he said was "arrant pedantry". He was an educated fella.

Not ending a sentence with a preposition is one of those things that oughtn't be an ironclad rule, but rather a good guidepost for avoiding colloquialisms and informal language.

It's frequently much more cumbersome not to end with a preposition, innit?

It's frequently much more cumbersome not to end with a preposition, innit?

Sometimes, but more often it's just as easy to use an equivalent expression that doesn't end in a preposition.

But why? The only justification for avoiding sentence ending prepositions is that they don't work in Latin.

But why?

Because. It's a rule. A preposition is something you should never end a sentence with.

11- you say that as if it were an insufficient justification.

a good guidepost for avoiding colloquialisms and informal language.

And we should do that because....?

I thought "acronym" was reserved to abbreviations that actually are words, like SPECTRE.

ac·ro·nym

1. a word formed from the initial letters or groups of letters of words in a set phrase or series of words, as Wac from Women's Army Corps, OPEC from Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries, or loran from long-range navigation.

SJ lives!

By definition, most abbreviations that are actually words became words via acronym, e.g. radar.

So, what's the word for an abbreviation, that is not an initialism, but is nonetheless conventionally spelled out? The only one I can think of is O.B. for obstretician, but there must be others.

So what's the name for words that started as acronyms and then got colonized by slang, like "gaydar"? Slacronyms?

16: Only to my everlasting shame, ogged.

18: Abbreviation.

But it's not a normal abbreviation. 'O.B.' would be an abbreviation for Olive Bread, but for a word that begins with those letters wouldn't you normally just pronounce, rather than spelling, the first syllable?

And "gaydar" is an ordinary portmanteau.

Hey, if Dick Cheney lives, why not you?

Because Dick Cheney has no shame to feel shameful about.

it's not a normal abbreviation

It's a perfectly normal abbrev.

Oh, never mind, I've now actually read your comment.

I actually sort thought the spelling out of OB/GYN was because of a twisted perception of the subject matter, not unlike a parent spelling out words they don't want their kids to hear.

You mean people say "Oh bee gee wye enn"? Huh. I had always assumed it was pronounced "ob guine". I'm not sure I've ever heard anybody say it, as opposed to "gynecologist" -- seems like something I've read more often than heard said.

29: You *are* married, right?

I am married. Ellen (she to whom I am married) always says "gynecologist" when she is speaking of the lady who supervises her naughty bits.

28: I suppose that could be it -- I can't think of another example.

I agree with 28! I always assumed that women actually say "Ob-jine" among themselves, and the two or three times I've heard it said it was spelled out so that a teenage girl would know what was being referred to.

Why would you use five syllables to pronounce the first two syllables of two hyphenated words?

ob-jine vs. ob guine

There appears to be some division over whether the "g" in "gynæcologist" is hard or soft. OED lists both pronunciations as acceptable giving preference to the hard "g". What do you guys think?

Apparently most people pronounce it "Gee-why-en-ecologist".

33 is the most insane long rationalization for a silly assumption I've heard since my students spent half an hour trying to deny that "To the Fair Clarinda" was a lesbian poem. You've heard it spelled out two or three times, and you've never heard it pronounced "obejine," but you assume the latter and come up with some ridiculous supposition for why what you've heard was exceptional?

That's at least as silly as using five syllables. Plus, ob/gyn is *still* less syllables than "obstetrician/gynecologist."

34: Jesus. Luckily I don't have to pick my jaw up off the floor to pronounce the "g" in gynecologist.

The soft "g" is nice because it allows for plays on "vagina"-cologist. But I'm not sure that's a strong enough reason to change the way I pronounce a word.

35 -- would they spell it out when saying that word or only when saying "OB/GYN"?

It just seems bizarre to suddenly spell out all five letters in a word, in a conversation where no other words are spelled out. Unless you're trying to prevent a dog from knowing what you're saying.

I also discovered a couple years ago that "anxiety" is not, in fact, pronounced similarly to "anxious".

37 -- huh?

It just seems bizarre to suddenly spell out all five letters in a word,

Except that OB/GYN isn't, in fact, a word, you see.

re: 4

Dud.

37: Try it and see if you can figure it out.

I am also truly shocked that more than one of you thought OB/GYN was pronounced "objine."

Or "obguine," for that matter. Begin the obguine.

To defend my assumption, I challenge the audience to find another abbreviation that

A) is composed of the syllables of its constituent words, rather than composed of the actual first letters of its constituent words
B) can easily be pronounced as syllables rather than spelled out
C) is nonetheless spelled out when people are speaking.

It would be equally odd to spell out a military abbreviation like "CENTCOM" or "NORCOM".

I wish B would quit being passive aggressive. Is "OB/GYN" the normal way for women to refer to their vagina-doctors, and my Ellen is the exception in talking about her "gynecologist" (also, coincidentally, 5 syllables)? Or is there a distinction and the two terms are not synonymous, they refer to two different doctors?

Just admit that you were wrong, and that there's really no valid grounds for the assumption you made. Especially since it actually ran contrary to not one, but several observed instances.

As to Clown, he has kids, right? And still doesn't know how to pronounce ob/gyn? Dude, this is just sad.

Having never been pregnant or even close to it, I can't explain why I call my gynecologist an O-B-G-Y-N without some reference to prudishness.

I had kids (or "kid") without the intervention of a pregnancy-doctor.

Well, the gynecologist is the one who does the regular checkup and repairs on the waterworks, whereas the obstetrician is the one who delivers the babies. It seems to me that although an OB/GYN is both of those things, it's less than universal for a woman's gynecologist to also be the person who ends up delivering that woman's babies. Logically, Ellen should only refer to her gynecologist as "my OB/GYN" if the same doctor performs both functions in her life. If her gynecologist is not also her obstetrician (or likely future obstetrician), she should say "my gynecologist" as my various female relatives all do. Among homo economicus, anyway.

I've heard both o-b-g-y-n or and "obguine". On reflection, it's possible I've only heard the latter in my head, as I read the abbreviation in print, but I know I've at least heard it there.

My wife also says "gynecologist".

(Instead, adoption-lawyers enabled the landing of our stork.)

Just admit that you were wrong, and that there's really no valid grounds for the assumption you made.

I admit the former but demonstrated in 46 that the latter is simply not true.

Especially since it actually ran contrary to not one, but several observed instances.

I believe there were two instances, which occurred within about one minute of each other.

An ob/gyn is an obstetrician/gynecologist. Not all gynos (pron. "guy-noes") are obs (pron. "oh-bees"). However, your wife probably calls her gyno her gynocologist because it's a perfectly fine word and there's not some girl rule about what you're "supposed" to call them.

Next week, I'll explain that women aren't naturally hairless.

Next week, I'll explain that women aren't naturally hairless.

All women???? Even my darling Candy Sue?

your wife probably calls her gyno her gynocologist

On the contrary -- my Ellen minds her vowels.

God, if this discussion isn't the best evidence of male defensiveness I've ever seen, I don't know what is.

They're called either obstetricians (if you're pregnant), gynecologists, or OB/GYNs. There's not a particular rhyme or reason; probably we just call them whatever our moms called them. And it isn't prudishness--that's what the docs call themselves. I'm sure that *they* say OB/GYN because that's the abbreviation for the fucking specialty, people. Just like they pronounce ER "eee-arr" rather than "er." Or MD "em-dee" rather than "mid" or "mud."

And we should do that because....?

In conversation? No reason. You can find me ending comments here with prepositions. In formal writing, like the kind I edit for a living? That seems self-evident.

if this discussion isn't the best evidence of male defensiveness I've ever seen, I don't know what is.

I could point you to several other threads that provide much better evidence.

60: Fair point.

59: Formal writing, it really depends, doesn't it? I write formal shit for a living, and ime there's no reason "formal" needs to men "stilted."

58: Bitch speaks the truth -- ob/gyn is pronounced O. B. G. Y. N.

I know beause I just had an appointment with mine yesterday.

God, if this discussion isn't the best evidence of male defensiveness I've ever seen, I don't know what is.

Probably a different discussion, in which the male in question did not admit to being wrong.

Also, I note that the distinction between an abbreviation composed of syllables and an abbreviation composed of letters has been TOTALLY IGNORED.

God, if this discussion isn't the best evidence that women become irrationally contemptuous at any sign of harmless male ignorance, I don't know what is.

58 seems really weird to me. LizardBreath's initial observation was that the pronunciation of "OB/GYN" was unusual -- MattF hazarded a guess as to why the abbreviation might be pronounced the way it was -- I mentioned that I could not remember hearing it pronounced, only seeing it written out -- and you jumped right down my throat! What's up with that?

(I mean in the mean time, since 30, I've been mostly needling you, so I could understand your getting annoyed -- but I don't get the initial reaction.)

there's no reason "formal" needs to men "stilted."

I agree. "Up with which I will not put" is stilted. "Which I will not tolerate" is not. "Which I will not put up with" is informal, and sounds less authoritative than the middle one.

Sorry Clown, I guess going to Needling Level 9 in #63 drove off the quarry entirely. The more subtle approach in #64 was better for the situation.

Quarry, shmarry. I figure that the patheticness of your ignorance was made pretty manifest when not only redtail and I, but Kotsko, pointed it out.

I did not take Kotsko's post 62 entirely seriously.

The second paragraph of 62 was intended as a joke. Perhaps I should've put it in brackets after a signature, in honor of the late commenter "ash."

Hey Harry Frankfurt is on The Daily Show tonight.

Save me, obi-jine!

We have a secret feminine conspiracy not to talk about our girly parts.

It's OB/GYN because a) a doctor can be both b) it's pretty much the same parts, minus the incubation of a baby and c) that's how the department is often abbreviated. It's said as letters because that's how it's said. I'd probably say 'gynecologist.'

"ER", "MD", "Ph.D.", "J.D." "C.P.A" "FBI" "CIA."

I meant to post this but I forgot to put post.

Whenever I start feeling pity for the majority, I go see my KM/FDM.

kilometer/frequency-division multiplexing?

W/r/t ending sentences with prepositions -- some day we just need to come to terms with the fact that English is a Germanic language, not a Romance language.

Comment fork: Why is the English infinitive form considered to be "to [verb]"? Why not just "[verb]"? After all, there are many auxiliary verbs that take the infinitive and yet do not require the "to" -- should, must, can, etc. True, in many locutions the infinitive is accompanied by "to," but not all -- perhaps not even most.

And even in mentioning verbs qua verbs in speech, I don't see that any clarity is gained by including "to" -- compare "Consider the verb 'to run'" and "Consider the verb 'run.'" Is anyone tempted to wonder whether the second example may be referring to the first person singular, second person singular, etc., form instead of the infinitive? No, it's clearly referring to the infinitive (absent some contextual clue that one is referring specifically to an inflected form, for example, pointing out the word in a sentence).

The point of this: If we did not insist on regarding the infinitive as including the preposition "to," then the entire problem of the so-called "split infinitive" would disappear.

I'm sure that *they* say OB/GYN because that's the abbreviation for the fucking specialty, people. Just like they pronounce ER "eee-arr" rather than "er." Or MD "em-dee" rather than "mid" or "mud."

As has been pointed out upthread, but perhaps not as explicitly/pedantically as I now hope to, OB/GYN (which I somehow know to pronounce the same way BPhD does) is different from the other two examples quoted above. ER/E.R. stands for Emergency Room, and MD/M.D. stands for Medical Doctor. But if we followed that model for Obstetrician/Gynecologist, we'd call them OGs.

Taking the first two letters of the first word and the first three of the second word, but then pronouncing out each letter, instead of pronouncing each part as small words, is unusual. Compare, for example, "Phys Ed", "Chi Com", or "Tex Mex". Can anyone think of an example similar to OB/GYN?

75: Cross-posted at Standpipe's blog.Cross-posted at Standpipe's blog.

Twice, even.

77: PhD, as already pointed out by Cala, dipshit.

I guess PhD is somewhat similar.

And Kotsko, don't make me get all infinitive on your ass.

Ph.D. is absolutely nothing like OB/GYN, in that it has not got any vowels in it.

Hey! Here's Dr. Frankfurt!

Cala's one relevant example is hidden amidst a half dozen irrelevant ones. So really she's only right par hazard.

"Ph.D." became solely consonants after the famed Vowel Movement, at the Diet of Worms in the year 1521.

It wasn't a satisfying vowel movement.

Well, I'm right intentionally, and I wouldn't have thought of it without her post.

An explanation that I will defend to the death even when someone points out that it's stupid and I just made it up on the spot: I think people pronounce it P. H. D. because they don't want to come out and call it "doctor of philosophy" and expose themselves to all kinds of dumb questions about the meaning of life. So they spell it out, just like you spell out McDonald's when you don't want your kids to hear you.

Also, the prefered spelling is par hasard.

there's no reason "formal" needs to men "stilted."

I suppose it's too late to notice what B wrote for mean, no doubt by association with "stilted."

My dad used to quote that Churchill line all the time, as "arrant pedantry, up with which I shall not put." But I noticed he often substituted and misremembered, often keeping the scan. An example I remember was him reciting Gray's Elegy, where he said "kept the even temper of their ways," when I knew it was "noiseless temper."

Also, the prefered spelling is par hasard.

Depends on which language one's speaking, dunnit?

By definition, most abbreviations that are actually words became words via acronym, e.g. radar.

You have a curious notion of what a definition is.

91: I'm just going on what Google told me. There were some results, including French-language results, with the z, but three times as many results overall with the s.

"PhD" would be relevant if it were pronounced "D.O.C.P.H.I.L."

Given that the abbreviation is from the Latin, no it wouldn't.

"Ph.D" is the only one I can think of offhand, but I wouldn't be surprised if other academic or medical abbreviations were similar. The ones I'm coming up with don't quite fit the pattern, because usually if you bother taking the second letter, it's so you can make a cool acronym.

Still, trust the girls that we're not mispronouncing it. 'OBGYN' as 'ob-gine' would be a little weird, and wouldn't make you think of 'GYN.' Plus, I usually see it as OB/GYN.

I endorse Kotsko's 76.

Can anyone think of an example similar to OB/GYN?

EI/EIO.

What'd you bring that book I don't wanna be read to out of up for?

Also, moving from White to Thurber, have you (= ogged) read Thurber's _Alarms and Diversions_? Get it and take a gander at the essay, late in the book, on a certain word game.

Also also, I can't believe that nobody has yet made a joke about OGs (77). What, too low-hanging?

("Knock knock." "Who's there?" "Non sequitur.")

I always pronounced that in my head as 'yo-yo'!

93: Oh yeah? "abbreviations that are words" are virtually always *only* words because of the abbreviation. I gave an example. Hence, "by definition," "abbreviations that are words" were acronyms first, *then* words. The point being that your presumption that "acronym" = "abbreviations that are words" was a very silly and ignorant one.

we'd call them OGs.

I'd like that.

Where did my italics go?

"abbreviations that are words" are virtually always *only* words because of the abbreviation. I gave an example. Hence, "by definition," "abbreviations that are words" were acronyms first, *then* words.

Even if it happened to be the case that abbreviations that are words are only words because of the abbreviation, that wouldn't make it so by definition. In fact, the fact that it isn't the case (I gave an example, and you acknowledge this by saying "virtually always") shows that it couldn't be by definition.

99: swt?

The fact that acronyms are, apparently, those abbreviations pronounced as words, and the further fact that there are many acronyms based on existing words, shows that it's not a completely outlandish mistake to make—not like, say, thinking that one kind of thing is another kind by definition, while at the same time acknowledging that there are instances of the former kind that aren't instances of the latter.

Even if it happened to be the case that abbreviations that are words are only words because of the abbreviation, that wouldn't make it so by definition.

Nonsense. If word X is in the dictionary, and its etymology says "origin: abbreviation for ___," then *by definition* that word is a word only b/c of its abbreviation.

This doesn't need to be true in all cases for it to be so in most cases, which is what I originally said.

Well, ok, first, the dictionary is just recording the fact that the word originated as an abbreviation, it isn't making it the case (an abbreviation might not be included in a dictionary because the editors are very conservative; that wouldn't make it not a word, nor would its origin as an abbreviation be different; dictionaries don't have that kind of causal efficacy)—anyway one might think the origin isn't really part of the definition; second, the claim you made, that By definition, most abbreviations that are actually words became words via acronym, e.g. radar., is, to me at least, most naturally interpreted as asserting that a certain relation obtains between most abbreviations that are words and their origin, by the definition of "abbreviations that are actually words" (not the words themselves). The reading you're giving now, that in the dictionary definition for word X, its origin as an abbreviation is noted, is, to me, practically unrecoverable from what you said originally.

My point was that, *as word*, if the thing was an abbreviation, then *by definition* it is a word *because* of the abbreviation. I don't see why this isn't clear to you.

B, you seem to be confusing matters of fact with relations of ideas.

Quite.

Probably because it was expressed unclearly? Certainly in the case of "radar", the word would never exist qua word if not for the abbreviation's becoming a word, and the abbreviation has caused the word—but I don't at all see that its being a word is by definition because of the abbreviation, or that the "by definition" bit really clarifies anything (probably because I don't understand what you mean by it). And I really don't think that any of what you're saying now was a reasonable interpretation of 17.

SB and Hume are clearly in cahoots.

A laser for each of you.

My basic point is that it's silly to think that an acronym only means an abbreviation-word. All abbreviation-words are acronyms, *by definition*. But that's only b/c an acronym is an abbreviation; hence all words that come from abbreviations come from acronyms.

I can verify that OBGYN is the standard terminology in hospitals. It refers to the departments in addition to the doctors. It's partly separable, in that OB is a department of its own, for delivering babies.

However, GYN, as far as I know, is not independent, since all GYNs have to deal with babies too. But GYNs primarily deal with GYN problems, whereas OB doctors deal with birth which is normally healthy.

I'm waiting for ben to pull out the necessary and sufficient conditions.

I don't know what you're talking about.

SB may think I'm mistaken, but at least standpipeself seems to understand what I'm saying, which is all I ask.

I saw that the comment count had gone way up and figured that y'all had started talking about something interesting. I stopped reading around comment 40 or so, but I'll mention (or re-mention, if someone else has said it) that I've heard doctors say O B G Y N and O B guiyn, but never ob guiyn.

Skimming now: I don't know why Yeti is asking me that question in 99. I have nothing to do with this post!

Good lord, B, put down the syllogisms and back away slowly before you hurt someone waving them around.

Bah. Bah, I say! Anyway, I'm going to bed.

Pretend I have my clauses in the right order, too.

I need more friends who are prone to sweeping dismissive rants, damnit.

Occasionally, I mean. It's possible to have too much of a good thing.

"damnit" s/b "by definition"

SB and Hume are clearly in cahoots.

Hume, me?

A PROPOS OF NOTHING, could someone make the nonce names nonce again?

Fuck you, David Hume. Just because something ain't *necessarily* so, doesn't make it not so.

I gotta go wind the clock.

No, but last I checked, 'by definition' sort of implied the 'necessarily', kinda.

By definition, most triangles have three sides.

Just because something ain't *necessarily* so, doesn't make it not so.

AIEEE

If something is so by definition, it's necessarily so.

My basic point is that it's silly to think that an acronym only means an abbreviation-word. All abbreviation-words are acronyms, *by definition*

You keep saying this, but it's simply not true, and I really have no idea what definition you're appealing to. Here's an abbreviation that is a word: "SPECTRE". "Spectre" is a word, yes? It hasn't even entered the lexicon via the causal route you've proposed (though that's probably irrelevant). Here's an abbreviation that's not a word: "GMRA" (stands for "General Mayhem 'Round Annapolis" and is pronounced "gamra"). It's perfectly coherent to think that "acronym" means "abbreviation that is a word" and not "abbreviation that is pronounced as a word"; both types exist, so why shouldn't there be a word that distinguishes them?

It does happen to be the case that, owing to the actual definition of "acronym", all abbreviations that are words are acronyms, since all abbreviations that are words are pronounced as words. But it's not a silly mistake to make; it's not conceptually part of "abbreviation that is a word".

But that's only b/c an acronym is an abbreviation; hence all words that come from abbreviations come from acronyms.

Your conclusion is probably true, given that words are likely to come from things pronounced as words, but doesn't follow from your premise. Consider: A dog is a mammal, hence all offspring of mammals are offspring of dogs.

A PROPOS OF NOTHING, could someone make the nonce names nonce again?

The change came with the javascript in the new MT install we're using. I'll see about changing it back or asking becks to change it back or something.

I gotta go wind the clock.

Isn't that Walter's job?

The point of this post was actually to propose referring to a woman's naughty bits as "fear, uncertainty and doubt"; this is especially appropriate given the many threads about How To Get Dates and/or Laid we've had.

I think B is logic-trolling.

b-wo, I think B is talking about words like sonar, radar, and scuba. All started out as acronyms, by which I mean abbreviations pronounced as words. Over time and with casual usage, they lost their acronymic capitalization and now function as regular words. Most people might not recognize them as acronyms.

B's assertion is that most acronyms that are thought of as words are not like SPECTRE, but like radar and sonar. They weren't words before someone decided to pronounce the abbreviation; now they are.

Whatever the truth of this assertion, it doesn't have anything to do with possible worlds, definitions, necessity, or syllogisms.

It also really doesn't have anything to do with 17.

It also really doesn't have anything to do with 17.

Right, I know, I'm just frustrated by the way she keeps tossing "by definition" in there, as if it's doing some sort of work. What?

I've managed to make out the view she's offering, and I think I addressed it in my last response to her—basically, I don't think that her assertions, even if true, would make what I initially thought "acronym" meant silly. The truth of her assertions about what sorts of abbreviations are words—whether they're abbreviations modelled on words or words that came about as a result of the popularity and pronounceability or whatever of the abbreviations, which originally were not words—is irrelevant to the claim that my original, mistaken understanding was silly, because obviously there are some abbreviations that aren't words (and some of those are pronounced as words and not letter-by-letter).

(I would be happy to accept "radar" as an acronym on my original, mistaken understanding of its meaning; the fact that it only became a word after the abbreviation was created doesn't bother me, though it would mean that an abbreviation could become an acronym after the fact—well, whatever.)

It would mean that there was a Form of Radar waiting for travel back in time to become a word so that "radar" might be modelled upon it.

I don't think your mistake is silly, because I think there's a word for the type of acronym you describe.

Is there a term in linguistics for the moment when a word becomes a word? I haven't been doing the homework teofilo assigned me.

Bad Stanley!

(First you'd have to define "word." Harder than it sounds.)

(First you'd have to define "word." Harder than it sounds.)

I was really hoping this wouldn't come up.

I'm surprised it took so long.

...but I'm still going to claim that my Intuitions as a Native Speaker tell me that "NATO" isn't a word and that that's good enough for me.

I remain unsatisfied, but it's not surprising given the current cast of commenters.

Ben seems to have stumbled upon the Top Secret Method of Never Losing Linguistic Arguments.

Stanley seems to have stumbled upon the Inherent Frustration Involved in Overhearing or Participating in Linguistic Arguments.

By definition.

(If he had been doing his homework he might have realized it earlier.)

Define the word, "word"?

Ben seems to have stumbled upon the Top Secret Method of Never Losing Linguistic Arguments.

Capitalization, right?

But seriously, Stanley, the short answer is "no," and the long answer involves a lot of discussion of how to define "word." If you still have that book, look at the morphology chapter for more.

150 to 138. To 148 the answer is "yes."

149: Shhh! If anyone else finds out we'll lose our coveted position forever.

150-1: noted. Thanks. And, bed.

You're welcome. I should go to bed too. I have an early flight.

Do you know what annoys me more than any acronym or portmanteau word or anything? Some of the younger folks around the office have started using the word "spot" to denote the decimal point when they read off a number over the phone. E.g. "That'll be one-nine-three-eight spot eighty-seven." Errrrr! It annoys me so much, you have no idea.

What about words that reference an acronym/initials, but aren't actually acronyms? I'm thinking specifically of Freddie Mac, Sally Mae and Fannie Mae. How do those fit in?

Shelbyville tavern-keeper to Homer: "We don't serve Duff here -- we serve Fudd!"

Did teo really give Stanley homework?

Well, *I* know what I meant.

But authorial intent doesn't matter, B.

It does to the author. Who in this case is the only person I care about.

Then why are you going through the motions of communication? Communication is about others.

Web communities devoted to hardcore solipsism don't last very long, ben.

120: If you go find the Thurber, you'll see why!

105: If you're asking what I think you're asking, I give up. Or is 'swt' one of those in-jokes that I don't get? OR, is it the 'Standard Widget Toolkit'? Not destined to become a word, methinks; it's too hard to say.