This needs a comment. And a brainstorm.

Questions I would have for Gary:
1) Is it possible for him to work outside of the house? Getting into a routine, seeing people, not being alone, &c, can help manage depression for some people, and a part-time job might keep him from getting even more depressed while looking around for something more lucrative.

2) I think of Gary as a researcher and editor. Here might be a start, if he's looking for freelance writing jobs.

3) Temp work? Type, make copies, organize other people, make $13 an hour?

The Craigslist thing looks useful.

Craiglist is useful. I haven't used it for finding a job, but it's great for finding apartment roommates.

Ironically, I found my current hideout via Craigslist. Some dude was SUBLETTIN HS STOODio and it all worked out.

Cala's right about temp work, but the reality is that the whole serious depression thing is probably the real problem. Honestly, hospital?

You mean check himself in someplace? I don't know, but I bet it'd be impossible to get mental health care without health insurance unless you were demonstrably about to hurt yourself or someone else.

Any Boulder-area readers willing to let Gary hurt them? Alameida will send you a mix CD.

I received free mental health counseling for depression for a couple of years from a then-local hospital's mental health center. It was very helpful and effective. It was a lifeline for me for a while there.

There's this place in Boulder that offers mental health services regardless of ability to pay (sorry, I don't have my cheat sheet re: how to post a linkable link):

http://www.mhcbc.org/

Oh, that did work.

Yeah, Craigslist job possibilities is one of the things I'm following.

And, yeah, a huge question is how much I'm able to actually do, even at home. It's not easy to answer that question; basically, I can't answer it with any firm reliability.

I have a combination of physical ailments, some of which produce exhaustion (the heart thing), and some of which sometimes generate excruciating pain (the gout, sometimes teeth; once in a while, kidney stone gravel), both unpredictably, but fairly regularly over time.

And I have the depression, which is also unpredictable, and even more sweepingly able to cripple me from between doing anything at all, to only being able to make light chit-chat, as a desperately needed form of distraction from the fact that it's all I can do.

Much of the time, if things aren't in crisis, and doom is months away, not weeks, I can manage to do varying degrees of productive work as regards reading and writing. Much of the time, not.

Thus the whole applying-for-disability plan.

Working out of the house, in a real job, was my hope, as of a couple of years ago, but after the last couple of years of experience, and the frequent -- though certainly not constant -- recurrence of the gout, and the depression, make me thing that the odds of my being able to maintain such a job, even were I to find one, for more than a few months, to be low.

Also, the fact that I've suffered this problem all my life, and have nothing resembling a normal work history or references -- or a college degree -- tend to make it hard for me to find that sort of work these days, particularly in Boulder, at other than maybe a retail outlet; although when I'm able to work I can certainly do secretarial work, I don't expect to be able to find that around here, based on past experience with multiple job applications, and agencies, when I was in better health five years ago. That's why I ended up working at the local Sears for a while, until they closed, and then at CompUSA until I was let go for too much sick time. And you can't work most retail when you can't stand up some of the time; plus, the depression.

And, as I wrote, the whole apply-for-disability thing is, unfortunately, in contradiction to the holding-a-job thing, as well.

No, I don't need hospitalization, thanks. If I were in the state I was from Saturday through Tuesday for a longer period of time, that might might be the case. Though how it's a solution to anything, particularly absent health insurance, I have no idea. But I'm feeling somewhat better now, not that says anything given the episode I was in. But that's also situational, and I'd not had that bad an experience in several years. Absent that sort of shattering news, there's not much reason to think *that* level of distress will reappear. Which is why it's so important for me to try to have at least 3 months of rent/expense money on hand at any given time, from now on, if that's at all possible: it's a necessity for me to keep what mental well-being I have.

At least I live relatively cheaply; ~$800, absent crisis needs, keeps me okay. (A little more would be good for occasional clothing replacement needs, and that sort of thing, but in a given month I can usually get by on ~$800.)

I've had an offer, incidentally, a bit ago, from someone to do some paid work on their blog for a while, which is the sort of thing I'm somewhat hopeful about, up to a point, but he's also, at the moment, asking for about an hour and a half of work each day, every day, for a total of $200/month, which works out even if it's only during weekdays to $6/hr and change, so I'm wondering whether that makes sense to try to do (I'm not in a position to turn down much, but that's an awfully low rate of pay for what works out to a fair amount of work: but I'm also really hesitant to ask for more; comment?).

I'm applying for local therapy help, thanks.

Gary, I hesitate to ask, but have you explored medications for your depression? I only ask because they've made such a difference for me. I've experienced near crippling episodes of depression in the past, and while the meds aren't a cureall, they reduce the severity and duration of my episodes to the point where I don't worry that stress will cause me to lose a job.

whether that makes sense to try to do

Yes, it does make sense to try.

I've had an offer, incidentally, a bit ago, from someone to do some paid work on their blog for a while, which is the sort of thing I'm somewhat hopeful about, up to a point, but he's also, at the moment, asking for about an hour and a half of work each day, every day, for a total of $200/month, which works out even if it's only during weekdays to $6/hr and change, so I'm wondering whether that makes sense to try to do (I'm not in a position to turn down much, but that's an awfully low rate of pay for what works out to a fair amount of work: but I'm also really hesitant to ask for more; comment?).

Yup. It's not a lot of money, but it's not a lot of time commitment, either, and would be presumably flexible with whatever freelance assignments you might land.

"Gary, I hesitate to ask, but have you explored medications for your depression? "

In the past, yes, a variety, including Paxil, Prozac, Zyprexa, and a handful of others I forget at the moment.

I'm really not up to running down all, or most, of the ins and outs of the various things I've tried, and what has and hasn't worked, at the moment, because that's a long discussion, but the short version is that in the past I didn't find chemical help that helped, but I did find a certain amount of the cognitive therapy of great use, though entirely only in the tools it gave me, which helped a lot, rather than in the actual talk therapy.

In any case, the local mental health center that Annie pointed is the one I'm quite familiar with here, although I'd not pursued treatment here in Boulder up to now -- but that's where I'd already been dealing with, and will be talking to again tomorrow, I hope, about, I intend, to see someone next week, if possible.

And I do expect that inevitably I'll be trying anti-depressants again; it's just inevitable. In fact, I have some Lexapro on hand, which the GP at the Boulder People's clinic gave me a couple of years ago, when I was crashing when Anna died. I didn't take them then, though, and while I've dithered a bunch in the past few days as to whether I should start trying them immediately (titrating up, of course -- yes, I'm quite familiar with the standard procedures, and have now read a bunch on Lexapro in particular, and have kept up a little bit with developments in the field in recent years), but I tend to lean towards the view that it's better to talk to an actual therapist next week, and see what s/he thinks, than to start now on my own, particularly since I'm not in the crisis any more, for now, that I was at the beginning of the week.

As of today, I do feel, however temporarily, significantly better. Why? Well, partially time, and partially the notions that doom isn't immediate, and I hope it's not inevitable, but mostly due to the simple and situational fact that some people sent me money so far today, so I at least have another month's rent, and high hopes of enough for another by tomorrow, and that goes a huge way towards easing my panic.

It's that simple.

What's left of my depression after I'm not in *PANIC!* that I'll be on the street in another month is relatively dealable with. That is, it can be more than enough to interfere with doing lots of productive stuff, but not, so much, these days, to keep me from doing critical stuff, or to keep me feeling Oh My God Life Is Hopeless And Doomed. (There are plenty of complications to this statement, but again I'm not going to write my bio in a blog comment.)

This is one of the differences between me these days, and me a decade or more ago. So that's good.

Yeah, I definitely wouldn't recommend starting up an anti-depressant on your own without talking to a doctor. Particularly if you only have a limited supply--they're not short-term meds.

Thinking outside the box:, I give you "Unfogged, The Movie":

(1) Hollywood loves stories of physically and mentally challenged people overcoming adversity. It also loves stories about high technology and the Internet. The story of a guy with debilitating depression whose online friends band together to help him out could sell for a nice sum to a TV or movie company, and Gary could get a cut of the proceeds. I see Paul Giamatti or Philip Seymour Hoffman in the lead role.

(2) John Rogers is a professional screenwriter blogger who takes on a different charitable cause, one after the other, but he hasn't picked a new one since the last fundraiser ended months ago.

(3) We contact John and get him to stage a fundraiser over the Internet for Gary, and then write a screenplay and cut Gary in for a chunk of the sale price.

Neat, huh? (Note: I am totally serious and this isn't meant to make light of Gary's situation in any way.)

"Particularly if you only have a limited supply--they're not short-term meds."

I'm well aware. I'm specifically well aware of the need to taper down, and I can discuss the technical specifics, but let's not. Sorry, I'm being too sharp in response to perfectly well-meant advice. Anyway, yeah. I have enough samples from two years ago -- which are old enough to be reaching their "don't use after" date in a few months, but haven't quite gotten there yet -- to use them for a few weeks before tapering down, on my own, if I had made that choice; that's the situation I got them under two years ago, or what use would they have been?

But, in any case, I've decided to hold off on that. I've also read plenty in recent days on the pros and cons of Lexapro, specifically, from a variety of POVs; of course, the thing about pills that affect your mental/emotional balance is that there's just no way of knowing whether a given one is more good or bad for a given person without that person trying it for a while; would Lexapro be effective, or counter-productive/useless for me? There's really no way to know without trying; but, the same for any other anti-depressant. Everything else is, at best, educated guessing.

"I see Paul Giamatti or Philip Seymour Hoffman in the lead role."

If you want to be realistic, keep in mind that I'm 5' 4" (and I hate to admit how chubby -- okay, fat -- I am these days; I was such a skinny kid....). (When I was young, I got Richard Dreyfuss a lot, as in "you know, you kinda look like..., for a couple-plus decades, actually.)

I resemble Giamatti, to be sure, a lot more than, say, Clint Eastwood.

I'm still trying to live down the guy at the Rocky Mountain Blogger Bash (link on the chance that someone might not have seen it, and might be amused; try to remember that those were kinder, gentler, days, though) who suggested I resembled Gimli.

I mean, I used to look like this (circa ~1976), before getting to look like this (in the middle, 1996), but degenerating into -- hmm, it seems to be offline at the moment, but you can still see a small version of the pic via Google in the upper right, here, of me, overlit and unflatteringly captured, in early 2004. (Gary Farber through the ages! Isn't it thrilling?)

Fixed before and after pics -- I cannot decipher the intermediate one.

The cool thing is, it's the internet, so you can be played by anyone, because who care what the heck anyone looks like anyway.

I wanna be played by someone hott.

How tall is Philip Seymour Hoffman?

whether that makes sense to try to do

Agree that it makes sense to try. I say this bco past personal experience. I don't mean to suggest that what was helpful for me will be helpful to you. It might, it might not. Anyway, back in the day, before diagnosis and drugs (Paxil CR and Wellbutrin XL), when I felt like life wasn't much worth living, but I wasn't ready to finally throw in the towel, getting through each day alive was my goal. Each time I did some small thing, it contributed to recovery, albeit a very slow recovery.

So, long story short, simply trying to work 1.5 hours/day for $6/hour may be an achievement.

Since many of us here appear to be connoisseurs of the big D, I thought I would link to this little gem by George Scialabba.

"I cannot decipher the intermediate one."

Oh, whoops, I didn't give the full URL, so it got filled in with an "unfogged.com" prefix. Yeah, here, and here is the 1996 one, and you got the last one right. Sorry.

"So, long story short, simply trying to work 1.5 hours/day for $6/hour may be an achievement."

I'm highly likely to offend someone, or give them the wrong impression, and I really should keep my mouth shut, but I'd much prefer the achievement of making at least $10/hour. Is all. (Not saying I won't take the offer, if I can't find something better, that I'm as likely or unlikely to be able to succeed at; just saying.)

"I wanna be played by someone hott."

At this point I'd like to have someone hott play me IRL, but it would kind of miss the point. (Hey, they thought I was cute when I was young; why, at Marcon, 1976, I was voted by the assembled women as having the Best Male Ass. No, really, it wasn't "being." Pinky swear.)

"How tall is Philip Seymour Hoffman?"

5' 9½" (1.77 m), it says here. (I wouldn't take the IMDB as absolutely reliable in this sort of thing, though.)

23: Thanks for that link, idp. I'd never seen that before. Brings back memories. Bad times, bad times.

Oh, he could play you. Just put everyone else on boxes.

Yes, it does make sense to try.

Do or do not, asshole; trying is gay. [/yoda]

26: 'welcome. I heard a piece, on All Things Considered, by Reynolds Price some years ago, about how as a college instructor he watched for signs of it in students, and how common it was that he found them. Does that ring any bells?

more seriously, how about employment agencies? You'd most likely be a difficult case, but contact several (which can be done through the internet) and maybe you'll look out and find someone who'll put in some work to find you something.

29: Not the piece, but in my short time teaching I've had three students break down in tears in my office confessing they're dealing with depression. I'm not that harsh a grader.

The anti-depressant commentary above reminded me of this, written by a high school friend.

"Do or do not, asshole; trying is gay."

Severe clinical depression turns out to cause a lot of gayness, apparently.

i'm crazy gay by that measure too, to be honest

I like the 2004 photo, so there. Also, Farber might enjoy knowing that last night I had an attack of insomnia brought on by a back spasm, and stuck in my head the way that a song might be was nothing but the word "amygdala." Amygdala amygdala amygdala amygdala amygdala.

I myself have found myself sounding out the word "amygalagf" repeatedly. Among other words like "markarkleiman" and "nattargcm".

I hadn't read the Scialabba before; thanks; I've added a link to it at my post. (I recall liking, so to speak, the Styron not long after it came out, as seeming pretty right to me.) And I want to stress that I've, before this bad news this past weekend, and the following episode (now mostly past, mostly due to donations, and kind words, coming in) not felt that bad, or had that kind of episode, in a bunch of years now; these days I'm not apt to fall back into that bad a level of depression without a situational cause.)

"I myself have found myself sounding out the word 'amygalagf' repeatedly."

Are we grading for spelling?

At first I thought Farber was on crack with that Richard Dreyfuss thing. But, looking at this pic changed my mind.

"I like the 2004 photo, so there."

I just realized that the "after" one that Clownaesthesiologist linked to in 23, that I subsequently said was "right" was not, in fact the 2004 picture that I pointed to Google Images' small cache copy of, since the link wasn't working, isn't that picture at all, but the picture of me from 1994 that's on my blog. Which I think *is* a nice picture, which is why I put it up, along with with the fact that it was the only remotely decent photo from remotely recent years I had when I put it up in 2002.

But it's not the unflattering (and more currently accurate than I prefer to contemplate) one from 2004.

Okay, now even I feel like I'm talking too much about myself (and being boring besides).

"But, looking at this pic changed my mind."

Incidentally, my old friend Allen Baum, there on the right, was, like, Apple employee #12, or such (I don't recall the precise number, but he was that old a friend of Woz's, back in the garage).

There's another shot of me, much hairier, in 1986, on the same page (on the left), by the way.

(Typical sf fans/pros; Ted White, next to me, used to edit Amazing Science Fiction and Fantastic Stories magazines, and later Heavy Metal, and had a bunch of novels published, and lots of other credits; Moshe Feder was for years the editor of the Doubleday Military Book Club, and the assistant on the Science Fiction Book Club for many years, and also a reviewer for Asimov's SF Magazine for years, and later an editor for Tor Books, and so on and such, and Andy Porter was the founder and publisher and editor of Science Fiction Weekly for many years, and lots of other credits, and a couple of Hugos besides. But, more sf people photos at that page.)

Gary, honest to god, as a bonafide depressed person who lived with a bonafide depressed person throughout my childhood, the whole living-inside-your-head-reasons-why-i-can't-do-this-or-that thing is, regardless of how you're *feeling*, the single biggest problem with mental health, and the single biggest problem, heart and all the rest of it aside, with employment and being broke as a joke and should-i-apply-for-disability-or-not. Get. Some. Medical. Help. Start taking some pills. If they don't work, take more, or take others, or double up. If that doesn't work, switch again. Just keep fucking doing it until *something* works well enough to bring you outside your head enough to actually make decisions about disability (short answer: yes, apply), jobs, and all the rest of it. Talk therapy is great, and I'm all for it, but it's all too damn easy to talk and talk and talk and talk and talk when you've got the fucking weird shit bouncing around in your head. Get into a doctor's office (or a hospital, if you can't get an appointment soon enough), get a prescription, and go from there.

Hang in there Gary. You've got friends who care about you, even if it's the snarky pixelated kind.

I appear to have been unclear that I expect to be seeing someone at the Boulder Mental Health Clinic next week. (I presume one will be able to travel through the snow; we've had heavy snow on the ground here non-stop for more than a month, now, and tonight it started snowing again, with snow in the forecast for the next five days running.)

No, I get that you're seeing someone. I'm just responding to/confirming/cheerleading the plan, plus really emphasizing the "take meds" thing b/c of all the comments upthread about how meds haven't worked in the past, I really prefer talk therapy, ad infinitum.

Boiling down. You know. In that whole not-talking-in-circles kind of way.

"as a bonafide depressed person who lived with a bonafide depressed person throughout my childhood,"

I betcha my father was crazier than your father (though, of course, possibly not; but impressive, if so); on the other hand, I might have to get to anecdotes I wouldn't feel like getting to, about my manic-depressive father, to prove my case. (I'm not assuming you were referring to your father; I was attempting a wee joke based on the "my father can beat up your father" meme, which I've now killed by explaining it out of fear of misunderstanding; thanks, I'll be here all week [probably not].)

Woo, high of 12 degrees forecast for tomorrow! Weathercaster stands outside in heavy snow and shivers as she reports.

Lamictal is great stuff. I know you have a family history of bipolar disorder. I think someone mentioned it on your blog. Glaxo Smith Kline has a fairly generous patient assistance program (I've used it) that covers people up to 200% of poverty. You do need an advocate, but the people at the Boulder clinic should be able to help with that.

Actually it was my mom, yeah. My dad's got his own, uh, "issues." And I'm cool thinking your dad is crazier than my mom. My biggest issue with my mom is the fact that she has refused to get fucking help her entire life and spends her considerable brain power constructing very elaborate scaffolding on which to oh-so-carefully distribute and redistribute the enormous piles of shit in her life. On the one hand it's admirable that she keeps on keeping on; on the other, it's a fucking tragic waste and pain in the ass that she expends all her energy basically running in place.

Gary, just a thought, but Catholic Charities usually has low-or-no-cost assistance for things like legal help, mental health, housing, job assistance, and the like. They're managed by the diocese, and what each offers depends basically on the area they serve, but that might be an option if you need assistance working through the red tape of Social Security disability. Might be worth an e-mail. I think the Denver diocese covers the Boulder area.

(And no, you don't have to be Catholic. Or talk to a priest.)

Specifically, this might not be a bad start.

"And I'm cool thinking your dad is crazier than my mom"

Was; died in 1987.

Thanks, Cala. (Denver is about an hour-and-a-half/two-hour, each way, set of bus trips, for me, but not impossible, to be sure.) (It's a much quicker drive, but I have no driver's license, let alone car.) (It's also been suggested to me that once I get my disability application applied and denied, that my federal politicians might be of aid in speeding things along at that point, so I mention this before anyone suggests it again.)

"...on the other, it's a fucking tragic waste and pain in the ass that she expends all her energy basically running in place. "

It's not hard to get some clue as to how frustrating and painful that must be to see.

The Denver diocese just administers the area. Dioceses are like congressional districts, but for Catholics. I thought about extending this analogy, but it went downhill too fast. But basically, there's local levels of administration, too.

So there might be a closer local office for some things, that wouldn't require such a long bus trip. I'm not quite sure where Boulder is, but I think at least for the emergency assistance you're probably served by the Metro Denver group, so you'd have to go into Denver. It's organized by zip code.

52: See, shmee. It's painful to deal with, because you have to stay outside the scaffold if you don't want to get put on the shit pile, but that "makes" her feel abandoned and lonely. BAH.

"But basically, there's local levels of administration, too."

Parishes, even.

Or just a series of centers funded by the diocese, administrated centrally from the diocese, but staffed with volunteers from a parish, but not run by the parish.

A few things that come to mind:
1) Working for $6 an hour isn't great compared to working for $10 an hour but it's better than not working and getting nothing, which is, as far as I can tell, the alternative. It could also lead on to working for $10 an hour. Or even $12 an hour - a man can dream.

2) Book reviewing as a source of freelance income? Sounds ideal for someone who's well-read and a decent writer with a lot of friendly contacts in the publishing business.

3) But yes, absolutely, get the depression sorted out first. All the other things can (really) be sorted out by someone with a fully operational brain. Priority, therefore, is to obtain a fully operational brain. Sorry to be so clinical, but there you are.

#57: I was going to say (1) earlier on, but I thought I would get slammed for being a heartless Republican bastard telling people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and all that.

As to (3), I would say that working a job could actually help clear up the depression. I'm generally a cheery guy, but back when I was between jobs, I regularly felt quite depressed. And yes, not having money coming in was a big part of it. My situation may not have been as severe as Gary's, but I suspect the principle remains the same.

GB - I don't have experience of clinical depression, but I think there's a big difference between just feeling sad because you're unemployed, and actually having serious depression. But, yes, just having something to do would probably help - like occupational therapy does.

57,59: If I read him correctly, G.F. wasn't turning his nose up at the $6/hr so much as asking for advice/commentary about the opportunity cost and adviseability of asking for more $ for the work...

It seems that most commenters on this thread have intimate familiarity with clinical depression, but I wanted to underscore ajay's point several times in red. It took me (like many depressives) a very long time to really figure this out and internalize it, but the key to clinical depression is that the bad feelings are completely peripheral to bad things going on. Oh, sure, you'll attach your depression to something, and you'll probably be convinced that if you can just get past this thing maybe you'll be happy, but really, this is not the case. b described it well above; I would also say it's like there's a record skipping in your head, always playing the same low note of despair and self-loathing.

Indeed, for me the most helpful bit of cognitive therapy I've learned is to disconnect the overwhelming negative feelings from real-world 'causes' to which they are not really attached. When
you're suffering from unbearable despair it's tempting to try to find a source of blame: relationships, jobs, one's own deficiencies, whatever. In true clinical depression, the negative feelings are not proportional to any 'real' problems and they will not go away no matter what you to do solve them. This, I think, is how depressed people destroy their relationships by being 'introspective' -- as we were talking about on an earlier thread.

29: idp, no, I haven't heard of Reynolds Price. Is there something of his that I should read?

wrt: I'd much prefer the achievement of making at least $10/hour.

57(1) is correct. In this situation, there's more to that $6/hour than $6/hour. It will be recent experience that you can use to get more work and show that you can work.

Also, the minimum wage in Colorado is $6.85. So they shouldn't be offering you $6 an hour.

http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/america.htm

Plus, a presumably flexible commitment of an hour and a half a day means that it wouldn't bar Gary from taking on a $10/hr job.

Gary, have you considered offering your services as a book doctor/independent editor? You seem unusually well-placed to do it: you know your SF stuff, you're well-connected and you know the business, and you have a very open public presence and are therefore obviously not in any way a crook.

Apologies if this is obvious or wildly unrealistic.