You should just send the lifeguard a link to this post. There's no way you don't score.
Funny, I've never noticed Matt Dillon's ass, personally.
Try sending this post as an email to the LG instead of the previous one, and see what happens.
Gonerill, pwned by 10 minutes!
Ogged, I feel your pain, but that's why you check Mr. Skin first.
bphd is discussing porn at her place this week. I get confused. The above type stuff turns up in the tens of thousands in newsgroups under names bluebird. I guess they are scans from oriental Maxim type mags. Scan a few pages.
Is this porn? Is it porn because it turns me on? Am I degenerate and misogynist for liking to look at young girls? Am I really embarrasing myself with this comment?
And ogged, you are no expert of film fan. You would know stuff like Rachael Leigh Cook and Camilla Belle don't take their clothes off and Jennifer Jasoin Leigh always does. Except I just watched the Rutger Hauer Hitcher again, and she has no nude scene, which means somebody violated her contract. Ask me. I can usually tell you what actresses have nude scenes in what movies, or are likely too. There aren't that many it can';t be memorized.
Bob, you're creeping me out.
I take it back. Camilla Belle went swimming in The Ballad of Jack & Rose with Daniel Day Lewis but it was very discreet.
Camilla Belle also sexy kisses her brither Jamie Belle in The Chumscrubber.
8:All men are beasts. Especially the ones that lie about it.
I'm discussing porn in order to give my outraged readers some space to vent over my decision to post over at SG. Meanwhile, over at SG, I'm outraging readers because I'm actually talking about issues instead of posting pictures of Jessica Biel's ass (or whatever).
Le sigh. Feel free to click through on that link, btw, b/c I get paid more if enough of you do. Plus the carnage is kind of funny.
The SG readers fall into this curious space between surprisingly acute and disappointingly obtuse. I can't quite figure them out. Seven pages of comments before someone figured out that the second post was about moral panic with poor empirical support? WTF?
12: Well, the smart ones aren't the ones who are jumping in to shout nonsense; having said their piece, they move on (and quietly send me nice messages privately). What I'm loving is how textbook the reaction is. It's like trying to teach a required gender studies course to frat boys, or something.
Girl Mending ...William James Tarbell 1910 Just another picture of a pretty girl
If you have seen the movie it is made perfectly clear the "Girl with a Pearl Earring" is intended porn, painted to feed a lecherous customers leering fantasies.
I read the comments over at b's, where they talk about facials , slapping and women during analand then Marcotte & Twisty say Playboy is the exact same patriarchal bullshit, so when I look at the Tarbell or Vermeer, I got to ask myself some questions, don't I? Not being trollish, I actually do think about this constantly.
The Suicide Girls are useless. I have seen no art or Eros in the work at all. I don't know how they get it so wrong.
PS:the best male ass in movies ever is probably Patric Swayze's in Roadhouse
Deep dimples.
From the SG thread B linked to:
Folks, there is a very simple way to assess whether or not you should bother reading a newswire story. Does it take more than two rotations of the clickwheel on your mouse to reach the bottom of the article? If it does, that means you don't read it.
That's from one of the models.
I want to agitate for more of matt dillon's ass. if looking at matt dillon's ass is wrong, I don't want to be right.
I am profoundly grateful to find out that the readers of a goth porn site are exactly as sophisticated, edgy, hip and alternative as I thought they would be - ie not at all. Try them on "appropriate dress for the opera".
Twisty say Playboy is the exact same patriarchal bullshit
Yeah, well, I wouldn't turn to Twisty for anything approaching wisdom on matters of sex. She clearly has deep, deep problems with any expression of it ever, in any form, and not just the male end of it.
Over at B's several commenters clutched their hemp necklaces and took off for Twisty's, presumably because Twisty is more intellectually honest for not selling out. (Several others actually had a nice discussion.)
Or something like that. If Twisty wrote about disease instead of feminism, she'd rhetorically equate getting a papercut with amputation, because it's really just a matter of degree. And her commenters would be telling wild stories about band-aids and how that was really like having to be pushed around in a wheelchair.
if looking at matt dillon's ass is wrong, I don't want to be right.
I feel obligated to agree: he's great looking, and he gets relatively little credit for it. I blame women and teh gays.
But he's about fifty now. That's the problem.
He's just turned 43, and still great looking. And who are the alternatives people are pointing to? It would be one thing if people were point to Kutcher-aged people, but no one really does. It's all (AFAIK) people about his age: Pitt, Clooney, etc. Hell, I don't even know who the handsome guys are anymore.
I don't really blame women for this, and I don't really expect much from them on this score. But I'm v. disappointed in teh gays; this one's a gimme.
Young Matt Dillon in his tighty whities.
I don't even know who the handsome guys are anymore.
You're not looking in the right places.
In a more serious vein, I was going to say Clive Owen, but he turns out to be 42—both he and Dillon I had pegged figured for mid-thirties. This is what happens when you let your subscription to Us Weekly lapse.
Right, but thanks to ogged, even without US Weekly, you know that Jessica Biel has a nice ass. I think I'd seen her once on Seventh Heaven prior to ogged's series on her.
he's great looking
Holy shit, you're a monkeyfucker, and not in that intensifying way Bridgeplate means. Dillon has chimpy eyes/eyebrows.
Dude, we've seen pictures of your hirsute self. Don't let the self-hatred get in the way of analysis.
Really, this thread has taken an embarrassing turn, you ancients. Have any of you heard of Jake Gyllenhaal and Heath Ledger?
If ac were around, she could tell you who the hot young guys are.
HA! I was going to post that Matt Dillon looked like a monkey, but then thought I'd just let it go. Monkeyfuckers indeed.
27 - Come on, dude, he was Ponyboy* almost 25 years ago.
* ATM.
Timbot, do you find George Bush strangely alluring? Here's some kiddie porn for you; Go Wild!
After that Heroes discussion the other night? People know, they're just not sayin.' TV, usually broadcast, and particularly CW, or whatever WB is called now, is where to look. And has been where the stars come from for a generation at least. ac watches that stuff. I know about it because I have a seventeen-year-old daughter.
If ogged knew how to focus on The Wire's real issues, you'd know, SCMT.
38: He's great looking, but I think he's too old (34).
What movie was this that had Matt Dillon's ass? I need to check for a rebroadcast.
Come on, dude, he was Ponyboy* almost 25 years ago.
You've mistaken me for someone with a firm grasp of—wait, what was I talking about?
Not for me!
Obligatory: I'd smoke his package/he could reup my stash any day of the week.
I was looking for guys under 30. Because that's how I roll.
Pants, be the voice of teh gay community here: Dillon is seriously hot, right? Even if he's not your specific type, you have to respect the talent.
Hugh Jackman is 38. I'm really bad at this.
Jake Gyllnnahalllhlll is funny-looking. I hate to break it to you all.
Yeah, I assumed JM was looking for guys under thirty/early to mid twenties, as well. Sort of a Tiger Beat for those just out of college; that is, roughly the age of Biel.
Ditto 47. He looked more at home in the role of PuzzleNerd in the zodiac killer movie trailer whosit.
Heath Ledger is cute, though he's too blond for me.
I agree that G...l is funny-looking, but I don't make the rules in this here society of ours today.
45: Wicked hot.
Jake G. is funny-looking, yes, but in a hot way.
Running thru his IMDB listing, and trying to remembering what is in rotation on cable, MR Wonderful is floating around. That is kinda sweet and romantic, with Annabella Sciorra, William Hurt, and a wonderful cameo by Mary Louise Parker.
And Vincent D'Onofrio. Who coulda been a contender, but now has some TV cop show. I noticed James Woods now has a series. Great actors reduced so seriously depresses me.
53 is part of the search for Matt Dillon's ass, in case the referent was lost.
42 - We're talking about Matt Dillon's ass. Don't you have a firm grasp of it?
Jake's sister is smoking, but I'd agree that he's a bit odd-looking.
Really? I think both of the Gyllenhalls are pretty hot.
Jake's sister is smoking
She's odd-looking too. Hot, but still odd-looking.
Employee of the Month is also in rotation. Haven't seen it.
I think City of Ghosts is around, and is a likely Dillon ass opportuinty. Seen it twice. Cambodia-noir. Sucks, except for James Caan, Depardieu, and Stellan Skarsgaard is supporting parts. I sometimes wonder about an actor's life:"Hey, Stellan, 20 grand and 2 weeks in Cambodia" "Why not?"
45: Wicked hot.
Thank you. I rest my case, you ig'nant motherfuckers.
As a person under 25, the only actors I can remember hearing my female peers describe as hot more than once are Clive Owen, Orlando Bloom, Johnny Depp, and Naveen Andrews.
TV, usually broadcast, and particularly CW, or whatever WB is called now, is where to look. And has been where the stars come from for a generation at least.
Since about 30 years ago, right? At least if you're talking about "Tiger Beat" type stars (both male and female).
We're talking about Matt Dillon's ass. Don't you have a firm grasp of it?
For all its seeming visibility, his ass eludes me. Just when I think I have a handle on it, it slips through my fingers.
Orlando Bloom would be hot, is so close to hot, but for that weak neck alignment. And the terrible acting.
Deep dimples
Is this the metric? It'd be great to have something concrete and measurable to aim for.
Thank you. I rest my case
Because all gay guys agree about what's attractive? Bigot.
So Orlando Bloom needs to sleep on a firmer mattress?
Clive Owen, Orlando Bloom, Johnny Depp, and Naveen Andrews.
42, 43, 30, and 38.
The youngest calasister likes most of the cast of Lost. Naveen Andrews and Daniel Dae Kim and whoever the heck plays Sawyer, in particular. I think they're both around 35; there seems to be a strong cultural presumption that around 22 is hot for women, around 35 for men, with there being a considerable range on how old the person can actually be and still look about the right age.
weak neck alignment
I don't know what this means.
That should be 42, 30, 43, and 38, right Tim?
I think I saw the ass of Christian Slater the other night, but it doesn't count, since he was either invisible or dead. Not at the same time.
The lady talks me into watching too much Sci-Fi stuff. Currently really bored with the bad wizard. Jericho is at least incomprehensible and paranoiac.
Spending warm summer days indoors
Writing blog comments
About a monkey-faced man in Hollywood
Ask me, ask me, ask me
I'm pretty sure he meant 42, 30, 43, and 38.
66: It seems that the erudite young woman does not idolize about a man her own age, perhaps because he seems likely to be an immature douchebag. (EXAMPLE EXAMPLE)
Just like in those toy commercials where if you want the 6-year-old to think a toy is cool, you have to show a 9-year-old playing with it.
There are so many cats having cat-sex right now.
Jake G: hot. Matt Dillon: smirky and annoying.
Twisty, people, is a radical feminist and analyzer of the broad effects of a sexist culture. There's a difference between saying sex is inevitably affected by sexism (surely true) and saying sex is bad. It's not that difficult a concept.
Orlando Bloom is not hot.
Not with that neck he isn't!
Twisty, people, is a radical feminist and analyzer of the broad effects of a sexist culture. There's a difference between saying sex is inevitably affected by sexism (surely true) and saying sex is bad.
Nobody gives a fuck. She's irritating.
There's also a difference between saying wearing heels spits in the eye of every rape victim, and you know, actually having a defensible point.
BACK TO THE ACTORS.
I agree it isn't that difficult a concept, B, and yet she seems to have a great deal of difficulty telling the difference.
Come to think on it, I'll bet Slater used a body double for the invisible scenes.
bitchphd is wrong, and also not funny. Film at 11?
re: 77
Troy was on TV last night. My wife would agree with 77.
Bloom is kind of a mystery -- I don't know any women who think he's attractive. And he's a shit actor.
Of course we all have the same taste in men. It's part of the training. Can truth also be bigotry? I think not.
Orlando Bloom was charming in the first Pirates movie. Don't think I've seen him in anything else, besides LOTR.
re: 90
He has a pretty limited range as an actor. Compared to other comparable 'leading men' of a similar age. Gyllenhal, to take one example.
81: He played the gayest elf ever. He is hot to my 18-year-old sister. But she has no taste. And Orlando Bloom is going to look boyishly charming until he's about 50, when he will morph into Paul McCartney.
Funny, I never even considered the possibility that he had been in anything besides LOTR, POTC, and Troy. Apparently there was a Cameron Crowe movie last year! Who'd have guessed.
My theory of Orlando Bloom is that somebody had to come out of LOTR as a whitehot sexgod (otherwise how could it have made so much money?), and Bloom was the most plausible candidate. Viggo's chin-dimple and unmalleability mitigated against him, and hobbits are, well, hobbits. He didn't embarass himself in the first Pirates movie, but it's been downhill ever since.
Are you people really denying the hotness of elves? I would remind you that this is the internet.
Fuck all y'all. I love Twisty, *and* I wear heels. She's right that playing the femmey game is a capitulation. But it's also, as she's also acknowledged, a survival skill.
Ogged of the fake emails to lifeguards has no ground to stand on calling me a troll. Phhhhttttbbbb.
Also, Orlando Bloom is good-looking, he's just not a great actor and he keeps getting cast in silly parts. PK adores him.
Ned Kelly is in cable rotation, and has both Heath Ledger and Bloom. I started it, but turned it off.
I don't like Ledger.
82: Eh. I don't know why that came out that way. I think I'm irritated that (a) B denied the obvious beauty of Dillon, and (b) someone earlier compared Twisty to Ivins. And, honestly, I think I'm more irritated by the Dillon thing. Can't explain that; I don't look anything like him. Anyway, apologies for tone.
99: Oh, c'mon. I was just beginning to respect you.
Love Koko Timbot. Timbot friend. Pretty. Naptime.
I am with b. twisty makes me laugh. And of course, there are the fantasies of being torn to pieces by mad packs of Dionysian Maenads, and twisty is only a couple hundred miles away.
And I am attracted to extremes. As in all private property is evil, and all images of women are expressions of patriarchal oppression.
96: That she makes some correct sociological observations doesn't change the fact that she's got blatantly obvious personal issues regarding sex.
I've been assuming pornification refers to the suffusion of ordinary cultural products like movies, ads and cooking shows with porn values, and that there's been quite a lot of it, working insidiously for a long time. And that every self-aware adult ought to be and is aware of it. I realize "porn values" doesn't do anything but move the definitional problem, but it at least makes a distinction between products intended merely to arouse, which seems to be damn near anything, and those intended to release, porn proper.
My wife thinks Orlando Bloom was hot as Legolas, but I think that was mainly the running and jumping and shooting a bow. Also, like Tom said, elves are hot.
A very plausible critique of Twisty is that she foregrounds specific sex and beauty issues that are of concern primarily to white middle class women while both not really dealing with how race and class intersect with sex/gender/beauty and that she foregrounds these issues as if they were the only important ones. I more or less agree with this.
I think she's funny, though, sometimes. A little repetitive, perhaps.
And I think her views should mostly be viewed as a corrective/homeopathic rather than as strong statements to be upheld strongly: ie, we live in a culture where it is assumed that being Sexxxxxeeee at all times is both the highest purpose of woman and lots! and lots! of fun!
So it's refreshing to read Twisty saying "No, being Sexxxxxeeee is stupid and boring and besides, men's dangly bits are gross as well as over-rated."
To be all frank about it, I constantly deal with messages from our stupid culture that are like, "You, Frowner, are over thirty, fattish, and you have besides a big nose. So you should just kill yourself, or at least stay home wrapped in three layers of fabric so we don't have to look at you." This is a constant, a given of my experience in the world. So I don't have much sympathy for people who can't handle the occasional satirical remark about men and heterosexuality. You-all think it's terrible that she's "anti-sex"? Well, almost everyone in the world is anti-fat-chick sex, so suck it up. [That might be slightly more vehement than I really intended it to be.]
103: Right, unlike the rest of us. I don't think she does; I think she's a lesbian, and therefore finds it easy to pooh-pooh straight sex. It's kind of a refreshing lack of angst.
106: Agreed.
the occasional satirical remark about men and heterosexuality
Nobody here has any problem with that, quite obviously. Her most venomous remarks are often directed at heterosexual women, rather than men. And, frankly, I have far less problem with Twisty than with the battle-axe-wielding shriekers in her comment threads.
107: My impression is she's celibate, rather than a lesbian, and is pissed off that the rest of the world hasn't joined her. I haven't noticed that straight sex gets condemned specifically; rather that any sort of sexual expression at all anywhere just enrages her.
But you read her more often than I do, so perhaps you've got the better overall picture. I'll stand down from this conversation now.
foregrounds specific sex and beauty issues that are of concern primarily to white middle class women while both not really dealing with how race and class intersect with sex/gender/beauty and that she foregrounds these issues as if they were the only important ones.
That's a pretty common criticism of a fair bit of 'third-wave'/'post-third-wave' feminism. That it's overly concerned with the beauty/media issues and with the concerns of white middle class women.
109: I find my battle axe quite convenient when I have to break into someone's apartment to rescue people's televisions from having to show pornography.
I would call the police, of course, but I don't have a phone.
The thing is, I'm not against women being bitter or angry about how crappy sexism is, even when that involves being angry at ordinary straight women who are gleefully complicitous. I think that it's unhealthy to stay bitter and angry in the long term, but it's not unhealthy to be a shrieking harridan for a while; sometimes it's even beneficial. My assumption is that a lot of bitter-Twisty-commenters read and comment for a while and then move on.
Twisty's anti-hetero vibe wouldn't seem so bad -- one can't begrudge a lesbian a little het-bashing, given the realities -- except it feeds directly into other, much uglier and less understandable things, like the transwomen-bashing incident. I'm sympathetic to those who seem pretty much to have written Twisty off after that point.
110: Funny, the standard amongst-feminists take is that the second wave was the white-middle-class-women-and-their-tiny-concerns one. But I think it's more that there's a powerful current in most western-world feminism that is all "I'm a white middle class woman and sexism keeps me from enjoying my whiteness and relative wealth, and fixing that is all I care about".
112: Good grief, I'd blocked that from my consciousness! Yeah, anyone starts talking about "oooh, those evil transpeople have so much power and priviledge to oppress poor little me, and transwomen are just men who want to get into the women's bathroom"--well, anyone who's stupid or malicious enough to take that seriously is right off my list. Twisty should have spoken out against that right at the start. That was so gross and cruel.
I missed the trans thing and will have to check it out.
Re. the commenters, well, yeah. You could say similar things about some of my commenters. The fact that any time you write about hot-button issues there are going to be people who only half-understand them or who oversimplify complicated ideas presented in an entertaining or deceptively simple (because clear) way.
Anyway, from the sound of it she's wrong on the trans thing, and god knows I think she's wrong about breeding, but I don't have to agree with everything someone says to be able to see that they're right about a lot of things and to admire their ability to shoot from the hip.
re: 113
"I'm a white middle class woman and sexism keeps me from enjoying my whiteness and relative wealth, and fixing that is all I care about".
Yes, I certainly find a a great deal of what passes for 'feminism' in the mainstream media reads that way to me.*
* Note: not intended as a dig at feminism in general; any more than the whiny lifestyle 'green' articles in the paper count against people with a serious interest in the environment.
I don't think you can lay the trans thing at Twisty's feet, though. Her post wasn't about it at all, and here was her comment on the matter:
I stopped reading this thread when it turned, for no apparent reason, into a referendum on Sheila Jeffreys' views on transgenderism, which do not interest me. Since then, it has been suggested that my failure to have commented on this "trannies: good or bad?" issue implies my tacit agreement with one faction over another.
Incorrect. It merely implies my lack of interest in a clump of commenters telling each other to fuck off. Not that you should stop or anything. But I personally gotta be in the mood.
And a few comments later:
Wait. This just in. My spies inform me that there has been actual hate speech in this thread. Knock this shit off pronto or I'll have to close the comments.
117: Yeah, having read, I don't think that's her deal at all--it's just further evidence for why Apo (and I, to be honest) aren't all that crazy about a lot of her fans.
I can't believe we have comity in a discussion about Twisty. I'm so ashamed.
119: Next up, why Tyler Durden is the bleeding edge of feminist thought.
Shave your legs, it'll make you feel better.
Crap. I totally meant to type Tucker Max, but I guess Tyler Durden works too.
117: A lot of people--including me--feel that she didn't really handle that whole thing nearly firmly enough, and that there had been a climate on the blog in general which allowed for that stuff.
It's not that Twisty herself is anti-trans (I mean, I would have remembered that, for one thing) but that there's some very legitimate debate about what kinds of comments she allows on her blog.
A lot of people, including Brownfemipower who I respect a lot have--in order to avoid this kind of thing--established some rules about what kind of speech is allowed on the blog.
it'll make you feel better
And faster!
124 comments, and nobody has mentioned Ioan Gruffud?
And faster!
I never got up the nerve to do that when I swam. I did paint my fingernails so the judges could more easily see me touch the wall, however.
Aren't you very fair (complected) though? Who would notice? And...faster! If I shave any hair off, people won't recognize me.
Ioan Gruffud, who according to imdb is also credited as Ioio Gruffoid.
He's got a certain barrier to name-recognisability in the US. (Is that pronounced "Ian"?)
He seems to be getting cast, despite the name issue. (YO-an GRIFF-ith, I believe. Where is our Welsh contingent when we need them?)
more like Johann.
I like the twisty site. It is full of people who hate each other and say so all the time, really aggressively, and there is no way on earth of finding out why.
Pronounced sort of like 'yoh-wan'. But run together. iirc.
The fairest of them all, yes. People would have certainly noticed, though. I also didn't feel like I was good enough to merit such a step--it's the same reason I didn't start wearing the flashy shoes for track until I got my mile time down to something respectable.
I also didn't feel like I was good enough to merit such a step
Yeah, it's an oddly fraught decision. I'm not close to racing, so I'm not considering it, but if you do race, there's too slow to bother, probably should, and too good to bother for this meet. At the not-quite-world-class meets, the best swimmers are all scruffy.
Now the Welshmen are going to tell us we're pansies. That's fine, since I'm going to paint my nails now.
132: God yes. I cannot abide people who must have all the latest techno gear or what have you for what are essentially hobbies. Dude, you're riding a bike around town--you don't really need the racing jersey and padded shorts.
Yo-an, stress on first syllable. Oh, and the surname should be pronounced Griffith (but with a soft -th sound).
Twisty lost me when she came out against blowjobs.
Orlando Bloom: too boyish. Jake Gyllenhall: h0tt. Heath Ledger: used to be h0tt, but now smarmy is taking over. Clive Owen: h0tt. Welshmen with painted nails: mega-h0tt.
133,135: The equivalent of this in figure skating is the adult skater who buys the most expensive boots and blades, the top-end practice gear, and insists that they are too an athlete, just like the kids who might (if you squint funny) have a legitimate shot at competing at a high level. All before they've mastered forward crossovers.
Also, while we may all have differing opinions on the man-ass on TV (me: pro), I think we can all agree that there should be warnings when Harvey Keitel is flashing his ass on cable. Comity?
re: 132, 135, 139
Yeah. The bike thing especially.*
Then again, that applies to a lot of hobbies (guys are particularly guilty). Lots of my guitar playing friends have rigs capable of playing stadiums -- but who gig half a dozen times a year in bars.
* although, that saying, I do have fancy gumshield ..
Jake Gyllenhall: I knew he was hot the second I saw those fellows kill his mother while Robin Williams watched all those many years ago on Homicide. (This is an addendum to my "That was Luke Wilson!?!" comment the other day.)
Twisty's outrage bores me. She's often not wrong, but in a very predictable way. (Same goes for Amanda Marcotte.) That's why I prefer B. She, too, is often not wrong, but she never bores me.
Women are always wrong, but if you humor them you can sometimes get some nooky off them.
142:And the openess to things she doesn't know about , but respects because people she knows care about them. The piece about the Bakersfield sound, on the Death of Buck Owens, about a year, made me a fan and crusher for life.
135: Racing jersey, no. But don't underestimate how comfortable bicycle shorts are.
They just make everybody else uncomfortable.
Hey, here is finally a venue where I can say this without letting down any of the various sides I find myself on:
137: I found the "ew, blowjobs" thing kind of funny and politically appropriate as a hyperbolic statement...I mean, as a person of the female persuasion, I feel a certain amount of pressure to provide them when I really don't want to, pretend it's wildly fun when it's just tiring and making my neck hurt, provide them in non-reciprocal situations because it's soooooo awwwwful for someone not to be gratified and sex is defined by his responses, etc. And I resent such pressures quite a lot.
Understood as literal truth, of course, it was about as ridiculous a statement as I've read on these wonderful intertubes of ours.
135, 141: I dunno - the padded shorts come in handy awfully early in one's riding. Anyone who regularly rides 5+ miles at a time without shorts is nuts, not riding hard enough, or on a cruiser with a La-Z-Boy saddle.
And, speaking as a heavy sweater*, t-shirts are gross for any ride longer than to-the-store. As Calvin's dad says, "Look, I didn't design this outfit - this stuff is functional."
*cardigan, thank you very much.
Agreed that many good riders, such as Maynard Hershon, have needed to go away from the frame and saddles of their youths in order to keep riding at all. In that context, padded shorts aren't so bad and rufusing to wear them, in a sort of reverse aesthetic, Critical Mass spirit, would be just as stupid. But Matt's instincts are sound, and we should be aware of what kind of gear will in any given situation mark us as posers.
Understood as literal truth, of course, it was about as ridiculous a statement as I've read on these wonderful intertubes of ours.
I think this may be why Twisty drives me bonkers. As rhetoric filled with hyperbole, it's great and entertaining, though pretty reptitive. You can, with a couple moves and a shift, get to something reasonable.
But taken seriously, it's just absurd. I'm not sure that Twisty thinks that she isn't exaggerating; she tends to back off the rhetoric but not the positions when pressed, and the Great Blowjob Debate seemed to have a lot of condescending "you've just not thought it through, sweetie" false consciousness baloney. But it's certain she's creating a distinct persona, so charity: she's exaggerating and she knows it.
But I'm convinced her commenters think anything she says it the literal truth. Hence why their storming out on B was so absurd.
And I just read the response to B. at SG and...
...that "scroll-wheel" comment chick is hot. Dumb, but hot. If any of y'all are secretly members, could you send me her pictures? My email address is imreallyabetterfeministthanyou@endlesslykvetching.com.
Thanks!
I have no idea what happened to "repetitive" up there, but it clearly needs some help.
Look, insofar as the test for value of something like Twisty is, "It makes me feel better," then, you know, if it makes you feel better, it's doing its job. And if doesn't make other people feel better, it's not for them. Which is probably why they/I don't read Twisty. I'm not sure she's feeling the loss in readership, and I'm not aware of any particular loss as a reader. Win-win, comity.
I like Twisty quite a lot, and have simply learned to shrug off her more... over-the-top pronouncements. I mean, I'm a white father - no matter how much I think I'm pro-women, I'm going to fall pretty far short of her standards. But, as bob said, her absolutism is interesting - she's taking the arguments farther than just about anyone else, and since I like her writing and her schtick (not to mention the lovely food), I like spending time there. Whereas I found Amanda tiring almost instantly, and never read Pandagon anymore (it has almost nothing to do with her positions, almost everything to do with her prose - too dense).
Also, I once commented to the effect that she was anti-sex, and her response was genuine hurt - she clearly thinks there's a line that she doesn't cross, even if the rest of us can't see it.
Anyway, I'm baffled by complaints about her commenters. Frankly, I rarely bother with comments anywhere but here, because of the well-known Usenet tendencies that wore me out before the WWW existed*. Small comment threads on small blogs can be worthwhile, and a (relative) few blogs maintain actual discussion, but it's mostly painful everywhere. IOW, not Twisty's fault.
* Too Farberish?
Her food posts are fabulous. Her rant on frisée was very funny.
149: If it weren't for the posers buying the latest and greatest the cost of fancier gear would price it out reach for many of those who can use it to good advantage. The digital single-lens-reflex camera scene at the high end is a very good example. Anyway, really good high-end stuff has its intrinsic attractions even if one can't use all the capabilities.
The thing that's more annoying about blogs over Usenet is that lots of blogs become cults of personality and they don't have commenters so much as minions.
IOW, these kids and their crazy blog commenting these days.
Worship me or die, Magpie. Them's the rules.
JRoth makes a good point about comments generally sucking. Though Yglesias has had good threads since he consolidated.
The digital single-lens-reflex camera scene at the high end is a very good example.
Ooh, threadjack!
After I lost 4 out of 6 rolls of my vacation pictures, film is dead to me. Anyone have any recommendations for low-end digital SLRs? Also, will conventional lenses (in my case, Nikon F-series) actualy work on a digital SLR?
Shit, how can I worship O's comment in 158 without seeming to glorify myself?
What's weird about Yglesias' threads (and some similar ones) is that you get all these regulars, plus a bunch of irregulars, and the regulars are terribly ineffective at policing. My tolerance for trolls is pretty close to zero - AFAIC, Al should be banned form the whole fucking internet (including mapquest and msn). Hell, even that damn Petey (I think he shows up on both MY and Ezra Klein's - can someone please make those two change their site designs?) has trollish effects when he's not trying. Who can take that shit?
If it weren't for the posers buying the latest and greatest the cost of fancier gear would price it out reach for many of those who can use it to good advantage
This is a good point, and such high-end stuff as I've owned in my life almost certainly had posers in its chain of title.
Anyone have any recommendations for low-end digital SLRs
I think the Nikon D40 is supposed to be good and should be compatible with your lenses (but check, of course).
Also, will conventional lenses (in my case, Nikon F-series) actualy work on a digital SLR?
Short answer: yes, for Nikon, though sometimes with limitations.
Long answer.
"Shave your legs, it'll make you feel better."
Or your head. Feels great when you dive into the water.
159: My understanding is that Nikon film lenses will work on their digital SLR bodies. I think they have an affordable-ish "prosumer" camera. We have the Canon EOS Digital Rebel XT, which we love, but if you already have Nikon lenses you'll probably want to stick with Nikon.
The thing that's more annoying about blogs over Usenet is that lots of blogs become cults of personality and they don't have commenters so much as minions.
This is precisely the conversation Rah and I had the other night after dinner. He described blogs as "the new Usenet" in an off-handed comment (I'm not trying to put him on top of some position he doesn't want to defend himself, etc.) and I replied that in my opinion usually a blog is built around a personality but a Usenet group is built around a concept*. The development of cults thereof is organic and natural though not always pleasant. I can think of blogs where comments always have at their core a desire to connect somehow with the author and not with their message; on Usenet there was just as much rivalry to form an in-crowd but it was at least superficially built around expertise or contribution rather than sheer social status. It's not at all far-fetched to think of a blog shutting down because of, say, the death of its author. I can't think of any Usenet groups that went under because of the personal fate of any one person, though I'm by no means an expert.
I'm not trying to play "I hate blogs because I miss alt.alien-vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk," though. I'm just noting that I agree that there are differences, good and bad, between the two. I prefer blogs.
Also, none of the blogs I'm thinking of negatively are Unfogged, which has a much more Usenet-y flavor than pretty much any other of the doubtless tiny minority of all blogs which I've read and this is at least in part because of having multiple authors. Almost any one-person show is just that.
I think this is where I make a "we are all Farber" joke, but I'm not sure.
* There are, of course, counterexamples to this I'm sure. alt.shava, for example.
146 was written by the guy who regularly links to a picture of his hairy nipple.
Anyway, if anyone is uncomfortable with the sight of my Dillonesque ass in bike shorts, that's their problem, not mine.
I like making people uncomfortable.
154 is so good, esp on Marcotte vs Twisty. T's prose has a lightness, a a I need a Nietzsche quote here, something like "One must write as if one's life depended on it, not like a German march but like the French galliard, on the page like pigeon droppings on the Notre Dame."
Yggy's prose is light, as is the lesser Malaysian's if you overlook the Joycean incomprehensibility. But I've never demanded that I understand what I read, as long as it sounds good and makes me laugh.
There are, of course, counterexamples to this I'm sure.
Like alt.religion.kibology. Also, some newsgroups are/were more personality-driven than others -- alt.tasteless comes to mind. But as a general rule, most Usenet groups were less personality-driven than most blogs.
I would say that Unfogged has more of a community feel than many other blogs. Usenetty to me would imply a hell of a lot more flaming.
157: "The thing that's more annoying about blogs over Usenet is that lots of blogs become cults of personality and they don't have commenters so much as minions."
True, but for me the most annoying thing about blogs over Usenet is that we can't all use kill-files to read blogs with.
166: "I think this is where I make a 'we are all Farber' joke, but I'm not sure."
You can't all be Farber, because I'm not particularly inclined to separate personalities (a confused personality, sometimes, sure, but all the voices are pretty much expressions of the same personality -- we were all talking about this in the shower the other morning, and decided that), and this would be much too confusing.
Also, everyone's share of dessert would be far too small.
Also, everyone's share of dessert would be far too small.
I'll make extra pie.
Matt Dillon, Jake Gyllenhaal, Naveen Andrews (especially with his own voice not the fake arabic accent), Sawyer/Josh Holloway, Johnny Deep, Aragorn (but not Viggo) - all hottttt. Also (seeing as it's age gap week), Dirk Benedict (Face out of the A Team, was on Celebrity Big Brother over here recently) - veeeerrrry old, but most definitely still hot.
Orlando, Heath Ledger, Clive Owen - nottttttt.
I missed a Heroes conversation? Damn. Am loving that programme, but no one in it gives me the horn. Which is obviously a drawback, being a bored housewife etc.
Minor thread jack: Is this not an incredible picture? I don't know the person in it -- but an old friend of mine took it -- and the damn thing's haunting me.
Alright now, resume with the sexy talk.
I'll have to remember gives me the horn.
Yes, the phrase "Image hosted by Tripod" will echo in my mind for decades. Truly intense.
Is that link not working? It looks fine on my end. Alright then, go here and scroll nine pictures down. It's the one above the baby.
gives me the horn
That's great. You don't think Clive Owen is hot? Are you alone in the world with that opinion?
Anyone who thinks Clive Owen isn't hot is self-evidently a robot, bereft of emotion.
Not so fast, Pants. She's with us on Dillon! We're a big tent party (as it were).
159: Yeah, if you already have Nikon lenses you'll probably want to stay with them. The best reviews I've seen are at dpreview.com. The site also has lots of sample pictures from various cameras you can download and examine. The forums are the usual mixed bag with a fairly high noise level.
What I want to know is, where is that whole Dirk Benedict thing coming from? I, too, love it when a plan comes together, but come on.
Oh, hang on, Dirk Benedict was "Face." Never mind. Just having an ammonia moment.
Was Benedict on the one with the Bollywood star that blew up, Ms. Horn?
Yeah. Not that I watched it past the first night. Honest!
Clive Owen seems more popular in the States than at home.
174 - Thanks to a surfeit of open tabs, I thought your friend was responsible for this piece of loveliness.
He is a goofy bastard, so I wouldn't put it past him.
What's even stranger is that I had this open in another tab, so the whole "Please, Dave" plea was even more resonant.
This game is fun...so, who's still reading that interview with a crotchety Stephen Dixon? Or my friend Joe's demolition of Jodi Dean? Or anything somehow related?
I'm fond of you, Scott, but Long Sunday vs. The Valve is really the most boring rivalry ever. And I say this as someone interested in lit. theory.
Anyone who thinks Clive Owen isn't hot is self-evidently a robot
asilon is really pdf23ds? I feel tricked.
189: Yes, it is. Which is why I mostly don't participate in it anymore.
(Mostly.)
Which is why I wrote an article instead of a post.
No, I'm mpeg2avi. Moving pictures! Shiny!
Is Ioan a Welsh name then? Because it is also a Romanian name, indeed it is the name of a Romanian friend of mine, and pronounced the same way.
Yes, it's Welsh. Does Gruffudd sounds Romanian too?
My favourite Welsh John variant is Ieuan, pronounced Y-eye-yan (sort of). As in Ieuan Evans. I love Welsh names - my kids are half-Welsh and sometimes I think they should have had more Welsh names.
Does Gruffudd sounds Romanian too?
No.
There are a lot fewer Welsh than anyone thinks. A lot of English pretend to be Welsh just for the tax breaks and government handouts. There's a lot of question as to whether Welsh is an actual language, either, because none of the so-called Welsh actually speak it. There are rumored to be Welsh speakers down in the mines and up in the horrible valleys, but who cares.
I lived under the cloud of supposed Welsh ancestry for my first six decades, and there turned out to be no truth in it. Who knows what I could have accomplished in life if I'd been raised with the truth?
And sure, someone's no going to type in "Cwmfllam bllwranegib" nonsense now and claim it's Welsh. Don't let them sucker you.
197: There's a lot of question as to whether Welsh is an actual language, either, because none of the so-called Welsh actually speak it.
I remember hearing spoken Welsh on a visit to Llangollen, albeit not in large amounts.
Emerson, I have to say, you've been killing me lately. This isn't the last burst of creativity before you keel over, is it?
Much agreement with 199. Also, college students can't write.
"My penis is a vase. Not a vase you can put anything in, but it's still shaped like one of those modern, plain glass vases. Never mind, that's pretty graphic. Let's just say that we all know what it looks like."
I'm sorry that the page takes so long to load, because it sounds like it would be a delight to read.
Loads right up for me. Also, the poll in the sidebar:
Should professors be able to inject their political beliefs into class?
Yes, freedom of speech is important.
Yes, students should be exposed to the beliefs of others.
No, it unduly influences students.
No, it creates tension in the classroom.
The second columnist reminded me of the Phil Hendrie character who prefaces every statement "Well, as a gay journalist..."
"All of these questions come to mind." Topic sentence, fourth paragraph.
Apo, I'm going to sue you for giving me flashbacks.
My penis is a vase.
Hmmm, need a metaphor, need a metaphor... "vaccuum"? Nah. Too Fifties salesman.
"Vagrant"? Nah... too Derelicte.
"Vampire"? Meh. Too Tom Cruise.
"Vaquero"? No way. Too Vicente Fox.
"Vase"?
Yeah, yeah... fragile, intricately crafted, resonating with all the power and ancient wisdom of Imperial China and its wushu heroes. That's it! Vase!
"Today, men are threatened from every side. Metrosexualism has forced men to be concerned about their nails and chest hair. On the other hand, there is a movement to embrace more traditional forms of masculinity, like Rocky Balboa or Brad Pitt circa "Fight Club." Do I trim or let it grow? Or wax?"
This topic sentence sounds more like a thesis. Moreover, you only give two examples, which doesn't support the claim that men are threatened "from every side." Has "metrosexualism" *really* forced men to worry about their nails? Where is this "movement" coming from--and are Rocky Balboa and Fight Club really traditional forms of masculinity? If so, how? In what ways?
Finally, "it" is an unclear pronoun referent, and seems odd coming after the Balboa/Pitt reference....
crap, that last sentence is also imagined comments, and should have been italicized as well.
Are we sure that those essays are not some Onion-like satire or phonies drafted by militant feminists to prove how stupid men really are?
Those of us who've taught college students are sure, yes.
late as always, but I must have my vote. Clive Owen: hot.
Those of us who've taught college students are sure, yes.
Kids these days.
Dude, I've never taught, but I was a writing tutor in college and those essays are fantastic compared to what I saw (and I worked in a drop-in center, so the kids were motivated). The first one actually has a distinct voice. The situation is much, much worse than you imagine.
The situation is much, much worse than you imagine.
When I was an ROTC instructor, I was surprised at how poorly most of my cadets wrote.
I am a bit surprised, however. Quick, glib writing is beyond me, so you do not see me at my best here (plus, no spell checker), but a big part of what I do for a living as a lawyer is write, or edit stuff that I have other people write. And I graduated in the bottom half of my high school class and mostly have the college equivalent of a GED. It's not that hard to be a serviceable writer if you practice enough. I assume these short essays were by people who wanted to be writers and for that reason tried to get something in the college newspaper. Come on, people, try a little.
Come on, people, try a little.
Not really the mindset of the youth of today.
Well, the thing is, *so* many college students are completely distracted by the idea of how one is "supposed" to write that they can't focus on actually having something to say. It's kind of like they want to do well for the sake of doing well, and get enormously stressed out if you try to get them to focus on content rather than end result. And even good writers, if they're feeling anxious about the idea of their writing being judged, will freeze up and start writing in circles.
Really, students are capable of much, much better writing, but the only way I've found to get them to do it is to find a subject that they care about *so much* that it distracts them from fretting over grades. That and getting them to see you as a human being who will actually listen, instead of just looking for mistakes.
216: No, actually it's the opposite: they're trying *so hard* to "succeed" that they don't think about *what* it is they want to succeed *at*. Poor bastards.
Of course, I can say that now because I've been remarkably free of stacks of atrocious essays to grade this year.
You must know different youth than I do.
Obviously I do, but I suspect the real difference is that I know them in a different capacity.
No, actually it's the opposite: they're trying *so hard* to "succeed" that they don't think about *what* it is they want to succeed *at*. Poor bastards.
I can see that. There are some good things about being old.
Age is wasted on the old.
It was only 4 or 5 years ago that I was still writing insanely pointless essays about things that neither I nor my professor cared about and which my professor obviously didn't want to read, so I'll just say that the idea of being embarrassed because my paper was structured the wrong way was a much more intimidating prospect than the idea of being embarrassed because my argument made no sense or contradicted itself.
This isn't true about papers in classes that I actually cared about, though. But most of those classes didn't require papers, only other kinds of homeworks and exams. The only papers I didn't absolutely hate the experience of writing in college were the one about artificial nucleotides and amino acids, and the one in which I described the etymology of a word using several Old French dictionaries as sources.
214, etc.: I've also taught writing, and I've really concluded that effective written expression is a rare skill. A lot of very smart tech people and business people can't write at all. A lot of people who can converse intelligently can't write. Writing is really a lot different than talking.
I've also known natural writers, for example a 20-year-old reformed-stoner HS dropout who worked at the quicky-mart I went to. I talked him into going to school and within a year he was writing near-publishable journalism.
It's not a highly valued skill. Business people will just plan to hire a secretary with an English MA. (Not a joke, especially not for English MAs). The best justification for learning to write is to say that someone who's able to write, if they're qualified in their field, will have an advantage over other people in the field. (A friend of mine made a lot of money at techtornics -- he was their only tech person who cound write, and their only writer who knew tech.)
199: I'm actually supposed to be working on a serious project.
a serious project
Ssh, Emerson! We're not talking about that, remember?
224 makes sense. I like to think I'm a natural writer, but probably none of my assignments took advantage of that fact, because the goal of all of them was to demonstrate that I had read the material and was able to refer to it in a non-entirely-superficial way. The goal was not to actually make a cogent/original/non-obvious point or write in a vaguely human voice. Therefore, they were all extremely mechanical and dry. I certainly didn't want to seem like a smartass by being too informal.
This is why I think the "30% of your grade is based on the first paper; 30% of your grade is based on the second paper; and 40% of your grade is based on the final exam, which is a take-home exam consisting of three papers" formula for most humanities classes is out of whack. Aren't there more efficient and accurate ways to see whether someone knows the material? (this does not apply to actual "writing" classes, of course)
224: I regularly edit reports prepared by PhD-level biostatisticians who can't write their way out of a paper bag. It was a real shock at first.
So to sum up, you don't learn to write by writing a paper about US history or sociology. You learn to write by doing writing exercises in writing class. Or by writing informally and gradually realizing how to do that in a way that is actually readable and organized rather than unreadable and stream-of-consciousness.
Enwhitelement
My new favorite word.
