Dude looks like a flying squirrel.
Don't other swimmers get pissed when you make a huge wave right in front of them, while they're still racing, because you're celebrating?
Don't other swimmers get pissed when you make a huge wave right in front of them, while they're still racing, because you're celebrating?
Yeah, I think that was a breach of etiquette, but it looks like the guy in the next lane commented on the YouTube clip and was mostly in awe, rather than annoyed.
We told you how to log in so that you could post about sports?
Good pools will have fancy high-end lane lines that should prevent most of the wave from making it out of your lane. You can even see this on the closer lane.
Oggers, as a friend I have to tell you this: your chances of competing at the Phelps level are history. All the great ones have two intact original-issue kidneys.
I remember doing that treading water drill, it was damn hard. Can't imagine doing it with weight.
But if he could take one of Phelps' kidneys…
Ogged, you do realize that you're not, and never will be, a professional swimmer. This obsession with professional standards is looking awfully yupped up.
I support Ogged's dreams. B, cut your kid's hair.
I've always wanted to see Kevin Clements "hump the giant oreo" (term of art). Thanks.
13: As in, yuppie. As in spending oodles of money on North Face gear for the occasional weekend camping trip, or wearing biking jerseys and padded shorts and cleats to commute to work, or driving a Range Rover to take the kids to Little League. Things of that nature.
I'd love to argue with you about this, B, but I'm off to swim.
18: I didn't really understand that complaint in the earlier thread. It amounts to listening to two devotees of w-lfs-n's Cult of Authenticity debate who has violated the sacred strictures. Why should you buy expensive equipment for your bike ride to work, despite the fact that there's no evidence that it improves your riding time? Because it makes you happy.
He can correct me if I'm wrong, but w-lfs-n doesn't give a rip about authenticity.
C'mon, B. At least give Ogged credit for swimming every day. Someone who takes a hobby extremely seriously for a very long time deserves much less crap than the dude who does hobby X for two weeks, buys all the gear, and then it sits in the closet for the rest of forever.
That's what I thought was meant. We talked about posers with high-end gear last week, although there were some mixed feelings. There is a phenomenon, particularly in individual performance sports, of people older than serious competitors becoming obsessed with improving their times and letting it take over their lives. But the early stages are inseparable from a healthy emulation and enthusiasm.
He can correct me if I'm wrong, but w-lfs-n doesn't give a rip about authenticity.
He's been equivocal on that point, IIRC, and so I tease him about it.
and so I tease him about it.
I ban myself. Carry on.
22: No! No credit for Ogged! Give him an inch and he'll walk all over you, people.
You've been warned.
20, 23: It just irritates my conspicuous consumption radar. I mean, do we always have to have "The Best" of everything? Do we really need professional-grade kitchens and cars that won't get stuck if you drive them on safari? It's so fucking pretentious.
I feel the same way about the cars, and any visitor to my blog can find that I made my bike myself from junk parts. I've always taken pride in how much skill and knowledge can compensate for simply spending money, and gets better and cheaper results. But the leap from emulation and awe for a sport essentially without equipment to this seems excessive.
wearing biking jerseys and padded shorts and cleats to commute to work
Biking jerseys and padded shorts and cleats are *functional*. Jerseys wick sweat much more efficiently than regular t-shirts, and are therefore much more comfortable if you sweat at all. Padded shorts do the same, plus they're more comfortable on a bike seat than anything with a seam. Clipless pedals let you go much faster than you'd be able to otherwise. Getting dressed up in your favorite team's colors to commute to work is OTT, I'll agree, but functionally there's no difference between that stuff and a plain jersey and plain cycling shorts.
Do we really need professional-grade kitchens and cars that won't get stuck if you drive them on safari?
or spacious Brady houses with koi ponds, or
But the early stages are inseparable from a healthy emulation and enthusiasm.
Is Ogged someone who should be given the benefit of the doubt on this? (A rhetorical question expecting the answer "No!" bursting simultaneously from hundreds of throats and almost twice that many lungs.)
Because it makes you happy.
That's what the heroin salesmen used to tell me, but I was too smart for them. As a Protestant, I knew that happiness is not a good thing. Ogged has the kind of dependent user personality which is defenseless against heroin, exercise, swimming instructors, lifeguards, etc.
26 - Yes, but I think there's a difference between conspicuous consumption and taking pleasure in one's hobbies. I would turn up my nose at someone who got the Sub-Zero refrigerator and Wolf stove just so they'll have a cool-looking kitchen to impress the neighbors but less so at a friend who loved cooking and spent all of his free time in the kitchen and wanted to make his favorite and most used room in the house more enjoyable.
Like, when I knit, I usually slurge and buy really nice merino or alpaca yarn. Sure, I could get the stuff at the craft store, but if I'm going to be working with the yarn for hours and hours, I want it to feel soft and nice in my hands. The person I'm knitting something for probably doesn't even notice the difference, but if I'm spending my "hobby time" doing it, I want it to be pleasurable.
Like, when I knit, I usually slurge
So, you really like knitting.
You know what rankles me? People who brag about having found the perfect condom. It's like they're too good for the normal off-the-shelf condoms because they're fucking Scarlett Johannsen. I doubt that Scarlett even cares.
29: Exactly. It's ridiculous.
I know. People who choose that "lifestyle" make me sick.
But ... Whatever the merits are of denigrating hobbyists buying professional gear, it seems kind of irrelevant to the present case. Ogged's obsession with swimming excellence isn't manifesting itself in consumption.
SB, you're not suggesting direct action, are you?
Break out the pitchforks and torches.
John, I regard you with fear, awe, and incomprehension. I have no idea what you're talking about.
Ogged is probably bragging about his perfect condom to the lifeguard this very minute. This infuriates me.
Hell, no one needs a Ph.D. - there are plenty of good jobs available for those with four-year degrees. Accept your lot in life, people! Accept it!
He might get a nice pair of prescription goggles. How much do those run? It's nice to see well.
35: I believe you are exaggerating and misrepresenting both the tone and content of what I said, which is highly unlike you. Or do you really think that because I'm renting a house with a koi pond that I can't pick on Ogged?
20: And it eliminates the chance to make self-excuses based on the inadequacy of the gear. Besides, it's fun.
32: I just arrived, but now you've got me wondering whether the links in Ogged's last paragraph are SFW.
Besides, Ogged isn't yupped up, he's inegalitarian and a (swimming) social climber. Big difference.
OK, you're disavowing your call to violence for fear of eavesdroppers. I can accept that.
Youknow what's good for people with koi ponds? Herons. They're a protected species, too.
48: We have a heron! It visits once in a while, and I always startle it when I go out back and it flaps awkwardly away over the rooftop. So cool.
The hating on quality equipment reminds me of this.
Sooner than you think you're going to be dealing with angry, resentful herons wondering why you haven't brought themtheir fish.
No one can sulk like a heron, believe me.
Herons are cool. I'd get a koi pond just as Heron bait.
Is Ogged's swimming habit helping to support endangered species? I think not.
Who's hating on quality equipment? Aren't we talking about level/need appropriateness versus conspicuous consumption?
We're talking about conspicuous consumption, in this case disguised as something the person needs.
I believe you are exaggerating and misrepresenting both the tone and content of what I said, which is
... common in parody! Zing!
OK, maybe it's bad parody. I think your peeve is mostly arbitrary and (to follow baa) inapplicable anyway, and you were weirdly vehement and insistent besides. And koi pond-having is totally perverted.
It boils down to the same thing: "you don't need something that nice."
But whatever - I went out dirtbiking yesterday and ending up cruising around with some old Mexican guy with no gear beyond a helmet and a bike that cost probably 20% as much as mine and had 1/4 the horsepower. He was going faster than me, but we both had fun, so who cares?
Aren't we just dumping on B and Ogged? Is there some other theme that I haven't been told about?
No, we're talking about people being pretentious about "needing" things 85% of the capacity of which they'll never actually use.
54: Great blue, I think. They nest about fifteen miles down the road in the harbor, supposedly.
B doesn't *need* a koi pond. She could do just as well with a pool of standing water and some oversized goldfish.
I am guilty of this kind of hobby-spending. I did not really need that big ol' tube of cerulean blue, especially when I still have most of a big ol' tube of cobalt blue, which was really expensive. I keep thinking I'll be inspired by the nifty colors to paint more often.
Herons are remarkably skittish for such a large bird. You should probably screen off your koi pond so they can relax enough to eat.
and you were weirdly vehement and insistent besides
Shrill, even. Mustn't call people "yupped up."
I know! Dude was kicking my ass - must be their natural athletic ability. Or Whitey's inherent softness.
Or maybe because he has a bike he has to actually pedal....
Mustn't call people "yupped up."
Right. It's doesn't work straight, since it's so disproportionate with regard to what ogged was doing. And it doesn't work as humor, since it's not funny. Tell us what you're up to, maybe we can help you out.
God didn't kill the dinosaurs so that we could pedal.
Just being my usual shrill and humorless self. Having company was nice for a change; thanks.
Is SB secretly a sub-competitive swimmer with competitive delusions?
Only time will tell. This adds to the mystique.
I swim competitively against subs.
Now you're all making me feel bad about having bought ski boots last year rather than renting. It's not that I have delusions of excellence, just that my feet hurt.
Luckily, I've been punished by having bought terribly expensive boots that still make my feet hurt.
I had a swimming blog but I havent updated it for a while.
I was posting workouts from my Master's workouts.
I have been meaning to restart it.
and (to follow baa) inapplicable anyway
I think you're actually following "bza."
No, we're talking about people being pretentious about "needing" things 85% of the capacity of which they'll never actually use.
Like biking jerseys and padded shorts and cleats?
I think you're actually following "bza."
So I am. I double-dog ban myself.
You know what's really ostentatious? Teeth. If you have your natural teeth, cool, but I'm talking about crowns, fillings, etc. You don't really need teeth. Trust me.
71: Quick, are there an odd or an even number of levels of irony in that comment?
After the second level of irony, no one has a clue if they mean anything or not.
I think you're actually following "bza."
To forestall further confusion, I'll declare "bza" to be pronounced like "the RZA" and spelled "bizzah."
Coincidentally--I picked "bza" at random, when commenting on another blog, but I'm now 95% sure baa and I were college classmates, and that he stayed with me when visiting graduate programs.
63 -- Alizarian crimson...
Don't get me started on reds, Clownae. There's this perfect Japanese red I used at someone else's studio once four years ago that I could spend a hundred dollars trying to find. (I'd be much better off improving my color-mixing, I know, but the fact of the matter is that I'm actually a very shitty painter.)
I am also a shitty painter (which is why I don't do it anymore), but there is no shame in requiring both cobalt and cerulean blue, since they don't work to make the same colors at all.
I leave for a couple of hours, and B manages to wreak havoc with a hidden analogy between an athletic hobby and buying an SUV. My thanks to bza and Becks for holding the line.
Next week: how big a pool should I buy?
The moderate position here is to ridicule both koi ponds and fantasy swimmers. BZA and Becks are loyalist extremists, probably because they're hoping for sexual favors.
82: I dunno, you may want to hitch your wagon to a different producer these days. Wu-Tang Clan is now very much somethin' ta fuck wit (excepting Ghostface, of course). May I suggest "Bimbaland"?
86: 50 meters all the way. And deep too.
33 - Since you're all thinking it but I'm the only one to ask: what is the perfect condom and what makes it perfect?
Damned if I know. Scarlett would be the one to answer this question. Every time I ask her she just blows me off.
The bitch.
And why do some prefer the natural gut ones, which need to be cared for and cleaned for re-use?
What is the advantage?
Don't forget to make the cross dimension 25 yards, so you can have real sprint races instead of that obnoxious long course metric bullshit. And ordinary chlorination is now woefully passe; better spring for ozonation. It's delightfully bling, plus it has theoretical health benefits.
90:
I dunno in general, but I can say that the consensus in my circle about the new-ish ultrathin models is: Girls think they're a definite step up; guys think they feel too much like saran wrap.
When the condom achieves true perfection, it disappears, like the wind. Ommmmm.
86: Can you buy the kind of pool that you can also stock koi in? A youtube video of you getting attacked by a heron would be awesome. Maybe it would go for the other kidney!
Actually, seriously, are there any good swimming blogs? I'm a terrible swimmer, and my new year's resolution is to learn how to tread water, so I suppose some sort of inspiration might actually be quite helpful.
Do condoms differ in some feature other than their imperviousness to sperm and viruses? Does anyone actually use the textured ones? I've generally assumed the answer was "no", but have no idea.
77 is mostly just incorrect. Ok, the jerseys part sort of ok.
The fractal laser condoms show promise.
are there any good swimming blogs?
If there are good swimming blogs, I don't know about them. There's Timed Finals, but that's mostly news about elite swimmers, and the discussion boards at goswim are occassionally helpful.
Do condoms differ in some feature other than their imperviousness to sperm and viruses?
Sensation?
81.1: That'll teach you.
81.2: At least this long. I think saltwater pools are nice.
I agree with atrios on this today:
The Lecture Genre
Aside from the expected BoBosity, can we all agree (it'd make David Broder feel good!) to fight what appears to be our society's general impulse to tell people how they're supposed to raise their kids. I'm not talking about intelligent discussions/advice about good practices, I'm talking about the general idea that the specifics of how you're raising your kids, over and above a basic welfare concern, is any of my damn business. It isn't.
Similarly, can we fight the "it's my right to tell you how you should spend your money" impulse, too? Again, I'm not talking about advice about good financial practices, but the micromanaging of peoples' consumption habits.
See, 102 and 103 bring up potential avenues in which they might differ. But do they really, in any detectable way? Can anyone speak from experience?
100: Mm, yeah. Probably not what I'm looking for, though I suspect your hypothetical swim blog would also be too advanced for me. I need someone who wasn't a very good swimmer in their youth but has taken it up and done well and wants to share the wealth.
"Gut" is such a nice euphemism.
Hey honey, I'ma bone this sheep pooper, then I'm gonna put it in you!
Do check out the beginner discussion board at goswim. That might have tips. And you can post to it.
See, 102 and 103 bring up potential avenues in which they might differ.
Each avenue will bring her own differences, of course.
I did not really need that big ol' tube of cerulean blue, especially when I still have most of a big ol' tube of cobalt blue, which was really expensive.
Don't be silly, jm. You need both, plus a nice ultramarine. Limited palettes are for puritans. Of course, I'm working in black and white.
102 and 103 bring up potential avenues in which they might differ. But do they really, in any detectable way? Can anyone speak from experience?
You can't be asking that in seriousness.
105: I'll stop pointing out what a yuppie Ogged is when he stops telling me to cut my kid's hair.
Nyah.
Oh fine. Now people will be talking about the three different highly superior condoms they bought depending on what they were trying to achieve. "This is my me condom for when I'm just into being selfish".
108: Better a nice cleaned sheep gut than a syphilitic cock any day.
Is that a reference to Love and Death on Long Island? I'm now thinking that I was wrong about you...
bizzah is still cofusing with baa, of course. It just makes you assume that baa's affecting a Snoop vizzoice.
I'm interested in how they're going to figure this out in public.
112: I've never felt any need to experiment with different makes and models. And contemplating #90, I couldn't remember anyone I know ever mentioning what type they thought was the best. So perhaps there is, in fact, no difference between them except their branding, like cigarettes.
It would be more straightforward if BZA was all majuscule, like the rappers, and baa was all minuscule.
73, doesn't the bread get soggy?
Slightly OT: a new pool for Ogged.
I've checked out the Equinox pool in my area, in fact, and it sucked.
Ile:
Very basic swimming swimming tips.
Hopefully, nothing is original:
http://swimminginvirginia.blogspot.com/2005/11/basic-freestyle-drills.html
120: You're just not interested in playing in the big time, I guess.
109: Yeah, actually, there is quite a bit of good stuff there, thanks. This one looks like an honest to goodness swimblog. Now I just need to put some more effort into finding a pool where I can flail a bit without making a total fool of myself or getting in other people's way. . .
Does it really matter which condom you wear when you bike to work?
He'd take the equinox if it came with the guy in the picture.
I think that swimmers need a special condom because of the chlorine, though who knows what works in an ozone pool.
I couldn't remember anyone I know ever mentioning what type they thought was the best.
I agree that guys only rarely discuss condom preferences, but I think that's because guy-to-guy conversation generally involves little discussion of sexual mechanics.
A TI guy? hmmmmm How can I put this....I have known Terry a LONG time. He was my coach in Richmond.
He has marketed some very good ideas for triatheletes and beginner swimmers. A lot of the things he promotes are not horribly original, but are packaged very nicely.
I would like to propose that the BZA instead post as "Bobby Zigital".
I had no idea this great referring search would be topical today.
I have known Terry a LONG time. He was my coach in Richmond.
Ahhh, I see. A lot of the advice is quite good, though the quasi-mystical "swim like a fish" stuff bothers me.
I would like to propose that the BZA instead post as "Bobby Zigital".
In full, Bobby Zigital Ass-tastic.
136:
I just tell people that they arent getting any stronger, but they can get more streamlined in the water.
Fine advice, that. God, I miss the Swede. I need someone to look at my breaststroke, dammit!
Isnt there a Master's team close to you?
baa: Do you have any Bostockian, bza?
I think I get what you mean, now. Were you looking at philosophy programs in the spring of '98?
baa: Do you have any Bostockian, bza?
His next line is "would you like one?"
139: Speaking of your breaststroke, when's lunch with the lifeguard?
when's lunch with the lifeguard?
A fine question! I asked her when she'd be available, but haven't heard back for a couple of days now. She's probably scared that I'll break her little heart; can't say I blame her.
139: A huge part of breaststroke, and part of it that is just as easy to do right as it is to do wrong, is the relative timing of kick and pull. It's also completely impossible to put into words, but you might as well try randomly varying the timing to see if you can get something that feels easier.
Also, from a "going faster" perspective, tighter streamlining off the wall and holding your pullout longer is much easier than, you know, actually swimming.
This is like when I criticized someone's site design at Crooked Timber and got comments telling me that I could increase the font size, right? I'm a decent breaststroker, but find it really helps to have someone look to see I'm pulling too wide or not wide enough, keeping my hips in position, etc. The Swede, with her European "everything in its place" nitpickiness, was perfect.
129: Meh. I didn't hunt sfgate.com for the past week for that ad so that someone ELSE could imply Ogged was into men.
Note to self: be less subtle next time.
But I didn't know you were a swimmer, Jake.
Talking about Oggedly is much more fun than talking to him, IYKWIM.
Before most people were born, I used to be able to swim the lngth of the pool underwater and turn around, but I can't remember how long the pool was. I couldn't make it all the way back, though.
Being obsessively interested in technique is not the same as trying to purchase glory by buying the same equipment as a star or "the pros."
(I also have the impression that ogged used to compete at a decently high level, but I can't think if this is accurate.)
I wish I had something more to offer, but omg water that can go over your head is scary!!1!
149: Was, to be precise. Haven't swam more than maybe 20 times in the last five years, though. Still remember how it all works, but crap out after about 40 yards of butterfly.
147: And yeah, there are definitely a lot of different ways to tweak fine details of your technique. But the timing thing is huge - I randomly figured it out over Christmas break my senior year in college (8th year of swimming), and instantly dropped about two and a half seconds off of my breaststroke split in the 200 IM. Simultaneously an exciting and frustrating development.
(I also have the impression that ogged used to compete at a decently high level, but I can't think if this is accurate.)
Sweet. False, however. I only took it up a few years ago. My entire swimming history is chronicled on this very blog.
Hey, this is funny. When typographers duke it out...
http://blog.leetsoft.com/2007/2/24/brazil-vs-argentinia
the timing thing is huge
Absolutely. This drill is good for getting the feel--you can do it without fins, of course. (The guy in the video is Dave Denniston, who is now paralyzed.)
When typographers duke it out...
Fantastic link.
154: Ah. I had the sense you were returning to it after having competed in college for some reason. Anyhow, as long as your obsession centers around technique rather than consumption, I shall not mock!
(Blah, blah, no right to tell someone what to do with their cash in a free society, also, total right to mock in the Constitution. JaaaayEEEEFFFKay put it in .)
But the timing thing is huge - I randomly figured it out over Christmas break my senior year in college (8th year of swimming), and instantly dropped about two and a half seconds off of my breaststroke split in the 200 IM. Simultaneously an exciting and frustrating development.
This reminds me of the moment I finally became able to follow every soccer coach's remedial advice to "watch the guy's bellybutton, not the ball, to see what direction he's going to go." My response to that for about 10 years was "I see how that might make sense in theory, but if I'm looking at the guy, I'm no longer keeping track of the ball." About four games before the end of my soccer career I finally became able to do this, because I figured out that in order to do that I first had to trust my instinct to tell me that by seeing the guy's kicking motion I could tell where the ball was going to be, which was probably a skill I had learned six or seven years earlier.
Generally coaches and teachers don't stress enough the fact that in order to move beyond an introductory level you have to trust your muscle memory -- like if you're playing a guitar, you have to be able to form chords without looking intently at your left hand if you want to do any sort of single-string picking action. It seems obvious now that my guitar teacher should have told me to do my various exercises without looking at my hands, so that they would be more than just an exercise in Simon Says. Blarf.
Just a note on the expensive gear question, I've bought expensive parts for both my bike and my stereo, and in both cases I would say that I'm happy to spend money on them and that in both cases the only purchases I'm unhappy with are things I end up not using.
If I buy a $200 part for my bike and decide that it is only barely better than the $80 alternative, but I use it all the time I figure it's still worth it. I could have bought the $80 part, but I'm not going to complain. If I buy a $30 set of tires that I never use that feels like a waste.
The other thing to be said for people who spend way too much money on things they never use is that, while it's wasteful, they frequently help make things easier for the people who don't have money to spend either by helping keep shops in business or by contributing to the market for used parts. The only cases in which I am resentful of the people who spend lots of money on hobbies are when it contributes to a stiutation that prices out people without money to spend.
Any of the swimmers ever train with those hand blade things? I was thinking about getting me a pair.
161: Yup. I didn't like them, but I was more of a leg swimmer than an arm swimmer. Watch out for your shoulders.
156: Speed drills rule. If you want to get the attention of the lifeguard, and improve your flip turns, you can do the "run down the side of the pool as fast as you can, dive in at the flags, and do your turn" one. How'd Denniston get paralyzed?
Generally coaches and teachers don't stress enough the fact that in order to move beyond an introductory level you have to trust your muscle memory -- like if you're playing a guitar, you have to be able to form chords without looking intently at your left hand if you want to do any sort of single-string picking action.
This is one of the difficult things to learn about riding a motorcycle, at least in my experience. Proper riding technique emphasizes looking through the turn, that if you focus on something, you *will* ride into it. (This is a problem if the thing you're focusing on is, say, a big rock in your path.) I found it a bit frightening at first, but you learn pretty rapidly that even if you're not looking down at the front wheel, you won't veer out of the lane you're in.
How'd Denniston get paralyzed?
Sledding accident. Hit a tree.
Watch out for your shoulders.
Absolutely. Unless you're already a pretty good swimmer with good technique, paddles are kinda risky; very hard on the shoulders.
run down the side of the pool as fast as you can, dive in at the flags, and do your turn
That's the "traumatize the other patrons and get kicked out" drill at my pool.
154: So how good were you when you started taking it seriously? I mean, presumably you actually did know how to swim, right?
That's the "traumatize the other patrons and get kicked out" drill at my pool.
Which is why rec swimming sucks, and I don't do it. That, and I'm fat and slow.
random comments:
The gear thing: some things, a little extra expense translates into pretty clear benefits -- stereos are a bit like that, ditto a lot of sports gear, musical instruments, etc.
It's the 'I need hideously expensive pro-level gear that I can barely use' thing that's worth mocking. For a lot of people it's the pursuit of the gear that's the hobby. The gear isn't an instrument to enable them to do their real hobby well but an end in itself. That's when it's meaningless consumption.
Also, I can see 'I Don't Pay's' thing about taking joy in doing things well, cheaply, though. I have a pretty nice stereo but it's almost entirely composed of second hand stuff I lucked into because I was prepared to wait. And part of the pleasure of it, is that it was cheap. Amazingly cheap. With a lot of people getting into 5 channel surround, etc you can pick up speakers that were $500 dollars a few years back for $20 or $30 second hand. Ditto amps and old tuners. You could go out and spend $200 second hand and get a stereo damn near indistinguishable (to the ears) from anything under several thousand new.
Also, re: pricing people out the market; for a long time I was joyous that good camera gear was dropping in price with everybody going digital. Unfortunately, that's no longer the case and 'cult' film gear is going back up in price. Which is a bastard.
164: I've heard the same principal applies to snowboarding, though I didn't really try enough to experience it first hand.
ugh, principal. Why must I always rise beyond Yglesian heights in typography. . .
Gah! I did it again. Principle.
Y'all just take it on faith that I'm literate, anyway, right? Right?
154: So how good were you when you started taking it seriously? I mean, presumably you actually did know how to swim, right?
Yeah, I did. I took lessons when I was six or seven. Then I didn't swim until a couple of years ago, when I swam for a couple of months by myself (very poorly), and then enlisted the Swede.
172: Well that right there is pretty inspirational. It's like how I was finally inspired to learn to ride a bike. I will look into pools for next weekend. Awesome. Thanks. I shall humbly attempt to follow in your footsteps, Oggers.
Lessons or a Masters club are probably worth looking into, both for help with technique (it's very easy to do things wrong if you're just jumping in and trying to swim) and for motivation.
footsteps s/b wake, no?
I walk on water, LB.
174: Heh. I think Ogged would be thoroughly creeped out to see me struggling behind him, though. Not to mention that I'd almost certainly end up getting in his way when he changed direction.
145: "widdle," damnit. Can't you get it right?
I am almost certain you are correct, bza. There was only one program visit where I stayed with people from the same undergrad, went to the movies, and was told the town had "the lowest percentage of young people of any East coast city."
Are you still in the philosophy business?
Is it possible that the collective wisdom of the internet doesn't know the answer to how often Spike Lee misses a home Knicks game?
I think Spike Lee very well might, and that someone might ask him in an interview.
There was only one program visit where I stayed with people from the same undergrad, went to the movies, and was told the town had "the lowest percentage of young people of any East coast city."
That seals it. Well met, old bean.
I am, sadly, not just still in the business, but still in grad school.
I think paddles are a mistake for most swimmers.
They can be helpful if used with a coach to help your stroke. They can be helpful if you already are a very good swimmer. Otherwise, stay away from paddles.
Ogged is a good example that you can learn to swim if even you never did swim when you were younger.
I have a lot of people who want to do a tri but are scared of swimming. You can learn to swim if you are willing to go it some time.
Wait. When you swim faster you create more resistance and it gets harder? That sucks.
188 Not necessarily. Greater effort does not necessarily equal greater speed.
It can be helpful to think of it as swimming in a wind tunnel.
Ile:
It is important to focus on technique instead of trying to swim fast. Take your time. Swim slow. Get someone knowledgable to watch you swim.
If you are serious, it helps to see a video of yourself swimming. If you have a video camera, get someone to video you so you can watch it.
If you post it on youtube, I will critique it if you want.
He is right Ile. On a related note, make sure I see your butt every time you glide when you swim breaststroke.
The water is the wave and the wave is the water, and you are one with the water and the wave and shit. Focus all your ch'i on the water-wave as you become one with it/them. Probably you should focus all your ch'i first and become one with the water and the wave second, I can't remember anymore. Probably if you fuck these things up something terrible happens.
Here's a short swimming lesson for anyone who wants it; will can critique it if he likes.
1. Learn to float. I'd say this is the most important thing. Try to find the balance that lets you lay flat and stretched out and face down in the water. It might feel stupid, but this is worth practicing until you get to the point where you can be relaxed and floating flat. If you don't learn to do this, you're gong to spend a lot of energy keeping yourself up and that's tiring and slows you down.
2. Get comfortable getting air. When you master relaxed floating, practice turning your body to get air. Float, turn, breathe, and back to flat. Remember to blow out the air in the water so that you only need to inhale when your face is out.
3. When you can float and get air anytime you want, start moving your arms and legs for propulsion--you can do it slowly and deliberately, no need to splash around.
There's more, obviously, but that's the way to start.
What is the sound of one wave crashing in a forest and if nobody is there to hear it, does it shit in the woods?
Apostropher:
I feel that I should mention that the first song I taught my children had the words go to hell carolina.
Ogged:
Those are excellent points. I would start face down, arms by your side, and when you want to breath, roll head, shoulders, and hips as one unit.
Once you learn to be comfortable in the water, the rest comes much easier.
Once you learn to be comfortable in the water hell freezes over, the rest comes much easier.
Cala, you can do it.
You are scared bc you think you will not get air. It really is hard to keep your body underwater. Trust me. You always come back to the surface.
The charismatic do-it-yourselfer, Tom Cuthbertson, who wrote three books on bike repair and usage in the seventies, and also one about the early Macs, wrote a wonderful book about learning to swim too. Nothing new, but very friendly and encouraging. I learned at camp under conditions of maximum stress and fear, but came to love it anyway.
199: That's what they told me in swim class. They said, let go of the wall, you'll find that in ten feet of water you will bob up and down, if you don't do anything, right at the level of your forehead, so, let go! And I went under the water. Wasn't impressed.
If I have kids, they're learning to swim when they're little and they're too dumb to be terrified.
Cala: try again in shallow water. Start slow. take an adult lesson. At my practices, I have two women and one man who never swam before. You can do it.
It's worth it shopping around for good swimming lessons. I have Sally and Newt taking a weekly class at a program that feeds into competitive swimming, and it's head and shoulders better than the "Can you put your face in the water" nonsense at the local Y. (For any NYers with kids, it's Asphalt Green. It's great -- they aren't pressuring the kids too hard, but they're really teaching them to swim properly, not just splash around.)
"Asphalt" s/b "Soylent"
Asphalt Green is awesome. I swam there when I was last in NY.
I have a friend who teaches kayaking. When your kayak starts to turn over sideways you can't stop it. All you can do is push it into a 360 degree turn so you come up on the other side (called an "Eskimo roll"). Meanwhile the bottom half of your body is locked into this wood thingie, and if you screw up, you do an 180 degree turn and end up with your head pointing straight down. You can actually bail out then, but it's scary.
Anyway, THAT is hard to teach. But then he asked himself -- what was it like to be the first person to do that on purpose. Because there was a first time.
Gah, this is bringing back bad childhood memories. I can swim, I like the water, but I can't float. If will alone could have done it, I would have saved a lot of misery.
33: I was once with a woman who required a very specific condom -- Kimono brand, microthin. Wow, I can't believe I remembered that!
Honestly, I never thought it made much difference to me, but it seemed pretty important to her.
Bottom line: Maybe Scarlett *does* have a favorite.
205: Yeah, I keep on thinking I should get myself some lessons, and see if I can learn to swim better -- I'm an ugly, splashy, effortful swimmer. I like the water, but I'm not good at it. Then I think of all the other things that I should do instead, and drop the idea.
LB:
There is a lady in my area who is known as the Swim Nazi. She throws the kids in the water unmercifully.
A lot of people swear by her, but I cannot imagine doing that to your child.
It's what TR did. Circumstances, trust, matter a great deal. He did not teach Eleanor that way, but took her to shallow water and showed her how to float.
This place isn't like that at all -- they get them very comfortable swimming in water they can stand in before making them go in over their heads. Sally's half dolphin, so she wouldn't have cared, but Newt might have been worried about swimming lessons if they were scary. As it is, he's having a blast.
I thought I could swim just fine until I took a badly fitting snorkel and flippers set into the surf one fine afternoon. In the years since that incident---and no, the Southern Californian lifeguards weren't nice about it---my confidence has not increased much.
Paddles - indeed, that's what I meant, and in fact, it was a pair very like those that I was looking at. Thanks for the collective advice; it sounds like I may not have a strong enough stroke (yet) to use these without asking for trouble.
Me, I'd like to do a tri, but it's the biking I'm afraid of. I grew up in suburban Florida where it was the norm to teach kids to swim ASAP in order to avoid lawsuits from having a neighbor kid drown in your swimming pool. I was in college before I ever met an adult who couldn't swim. Or drive.
I think I could probably learn to swim if I stuck with it. It is something all humans can do, right? We always took lessons at the local high school, but it tended to be a two-week-class, didn't pass to the next level, then no time in the water until the next summer.
Yeah, you should be able to. I'd bet a decent class would have you waterborne in a month or less.
Eh, the "can you put your face in the water?" approach is important for kids (like PK) who are just physically cautious and don't like doing anything unless they feel absolutely secure.
That said, I've gotta find the kid decent swim lessons now that we live near a beach.
Cala, you could totally do it, and I'd bet that learning to swim from scratch as an adult would actually be a pretty cool and exhilarating experience. The mental trip of overcoming fear, plus the joy of learning a totally new physical skill that comes with the novel sensation of freedom and buoyancy that swimming gives you. I think I'd have to take up skydiving for a similar experience, which is more expensive and less useful. I'm starting to make myself jealous just talking about it.
physically cautious
Don't try to slip your PC terms by us. Where's gswift when I need him?
Sounds like cerebrocrat's angling for someone to disable him so he can teach himself to glide around effortlessly in a racing wheelchair.
217: Toss his ass in the fucking water so he doesn't have to muse about learning to swim when he's twenty-seven.
In the future, besides the Kama Sutra type shit, I'll keep working through different condoms until I'm able to move Scarlett past her crippling frigidity and Puritanism.
My friend swore by a certain Japanese condom cale Sakinulusu "skinless" or something like that. Googling finds "Crown skinless" and "Okamoto skinless".
219: Whatever, I can't help it if the kid likes to think things through before he jumps in and breaks an arm.
221: No worries. No kid of mine is going to not know how to swim.
217: I wasn't mocking the local Y's lessons as overly sensitive, just as insufficiently focused on actually teaching swimming technique. Newt's the cautious type too (as is Sally in non-water-related endeavors. Swimming, she has no fear) and they never pushed him to do something he didn't want to do.
breaks an arm
You do have to fill the pool with water first.
Oh yeah, technique is important. I may sign him up at the local Swim center rather than the Y, now that you mention it.
225: Not if you're not a pretentious asshole who thinks you have to own your own personal pool; the Y tends to have it filled already. Plus, ocean.
Just throw him in the koi pond. He'll figure it out.
God, if I have to listen to my father fret at me one more time over whether or not PK is going to fall into the fucking koi pond, I'm going to scream.
All the more reason to teach him to swim.
He's not a fucking two year old. He's not going to fall into the fucking pond.
Look, if any of you want to buy me a goddamn car so that I can drive the little prince all over town to swimming lessons as well as walking him to and from school and to and from taekwondo four days a week, feel free. Otherwise, get off my goddamn back.
How deep is the pond? I've never seen a koi pond a kid couldn't stand up in. Or is your dad envisioning some sort of fall resulting in head-injury and then drowning? In which case he should calm down already.
And clearly, you're missing the obvious solution, which is to teach PK to swim in the koi pond.
Koi are carp and thus vegetarian. PK will be safe in the pool unless something bad happens.
LB, you want he should get fin rot? Keep him away from those pathetic parasite-riddled fish.
You want I should actually read all the comments while I'm stuck in the office proving a negative?
I think the pond might actually be too deep for him to stand up in; it's a ridiculously huge koi pond, as such things go. Also, no parasites: the gardener treated the pond a couple months ago.
Sorry about the irritability, but I really am touchy about the fucking "he's going to drown in that pond if you don't get him swim lessons RIGHT NOW" thing. My dad drives me batshit.
Throw your dad in the pond to figure out how deep it is?
Dad's over six feet tall; sadly, I can't throw him anywhere. And mostly he's a good guy, but he's astonishingly stubborn and gets most of his rules for living from the 1954 Rules for How to be a Dad handbook, which means that adjusting for things like individual personality just isn't even on the radar.
He's probably got some immunity against fin rot built up, so you can throw him in with a clear conscience.
Who, my dad? Probably he does; he sails in the goddamn delta, after all, engine oil and stank be damned.
I've got to say I've some sympathy with your dad, B. One of my advisor's kids drowned in the backyard pool at about five years old, and it just destroyed the whole family. Bugging you about it isn't going to help, of course.
244: Life (and blogging) is a hard, cold, thing, Teo, and you don't always get what you want. If there's one thing I expect people to learn at Unfogged, it's that. (Actually, people are more likely to learn what a biscuit conditional is, but that's just a side effect.)
Horrible things happen to small children every day. I also left him alone in the tub a few times to answer the phone when he was under five, and occasionally left him to sleep in the car when I was writing my dissertation and needed the time to get some work done. So far, he's still alive.
Of course, I have nothing but sympathy for your advisor; that kind of thing would be awful. But PK is *not* going to drown in the koi pond. I guarantee it.
246: What, you'd rather prove a negative?
Be quiet, I'm counting white swans. I can get out of the office as soon as I'm sure I've got them all.
It's true, they ARE full of parasites.
the first song I taught my children had the words go to hell carolina
That's okay. My kids will just smash yours in the crotch with a light saber.
247: I guess you're not going to prove that negative?
But PK is *not* going to drown in the koi pond.
Just have him wear these every time he goes outside. Problem solved.
190-192---not sure you really want that. Let me find a pool first and then we can think about freaking out all the patrons by dragging in a video camera.
Speaking of female assets, the last time I was in a pool--I was just goofing off, but I decided to actually try swimming--I found that I still remembered how to do a front crawl and float on my face, but I had markedly less ability to placidly float on my back. It was kind of sad, actually, b/c I remember enjoying just floating on my back for 10, 15 minutes at a time in high school. Was I forgetting something--is it a skill that requires more practice somehow? Or is it possible that an extra 20-25 lbs, bigger hips, and a drastic increase in cup size would make that big a difference? I was a little afraid it might be the latter . . .
I have the somewhat hazy impression that the reason most people on my father's side of the family didn't learn how to swim is that a very strong river runs outside the family home back in the old country---and that my grandfather was so heartbroken when his beloved younger brother (a champion swimmer) drowned in it that he forbade his descendants from learning swimming and acquiring the hubris that they could survive such rivers.
I guess you're not going to prove that negative?
That's okay. My kids will just smash yours in the crotch with a light saber.
I can't wait for UnfoggedDCon 2020.
With kids, the key is to bring them to the pool frequently in the summer. Let them splash around and get comfortable getting their face in the water. If they are around the pool,playing with you or with you watching them in a shallow pool where they can stand, they will get comfortable soon enough.
As far as adults, there are a lot of adults who learn late in life (ie at 27). Follow Ogged's advice in starting with getting comfortable with the pool, floating and breathing.
Actually, my efforts didnt work. Their cousin's uncle works at UNC in the Athletic Department. For some reason, my kids like Carolina. I hate that!
It's always a little discouraging when your kids prove to be smarter and better people than you. Don't let it get you down, will!
