Get off your lazy ass and climb rocks for sex, persian.
I was combing through CL ads recently and thought, "My God, everyone skis now. Where do they ski?" before I realized they all meant they like cocaine. Maybe rock-climbing does not mean what you think it means?
And "traveling," I think, is more a class-marker than a statement of interest in international culture.
You mean this woman who wants a guy who "will take off for powder" is actually a coke fiend, or maybe she's looking for an addict stripper? I'm not sure about that. The lesson, once again, is that Craigslist is for crazy people.
Yes, a lot of these things are just class markers. I was going to go on about that in the post, but I didn't want you all to bore me. If you go down a bracket or two, you find the women who love to go to movies, and are looking for a man who is "honest."
That sounds exactly like my wife. She's all yours for $137 (+ shipping.)
All the nice guys claim to be "holding", but they never say what they're holding. It's infuriating.
She's all yours for $137 (+ shipping.)
This is one of those scams where the price is hidden in the shipping charges, right?
5: I've bored you with this before. I won't do it again.
I was just getting it out so we could all move on to more serious discussion of how these things translate to sexual and pharmaceutical experience.
"travelling" and "reading" are - to my mind - indicators that some thinks their life is more exiting than it actually is.
Are you serious about the skiing/cocaine code?
I've been using OKCupid, which gives you a match percentage based on a huge number of questions. (Most people answer around 400-800.) I've come to trust the percentage much more than anything else in the profile.
13: Yeah. I got the tip-off from reading too many ads by guys saying, "Just looking for a nice girl to go skiing with while we watch Top Chef. Sex possible but not necessary."
This is where you need your copy of Distinction to help you along. Someone needs to write a paper using this approach based on data from personal ads.
I'm always put off by those ads, because I actually don't like to travel. I'm pretty content just hanging out in Chicago for the most part -- but I wouldn't say that I want someone to explore the city with, necessarily.
I also resent the fact that so many women appear to want someone with absolutely no emotional baggage or "drama." Should I go to a psychiatrist and obtain a letter certifying that I am emotionally unencumbered and completely predictable?
What's really awesome is that so many of these people have such a radical sense of entitlement but appear not to have a whole lot to offer. My standards are basically that I want someone who I find initially attractive (something that is not easily predictable through listing various statistics and properties the person should have) and who I like hanging out with. And who likes music, travel, and can write a coherent sentence! And I'm so tired of the games and the drama! Where are all the nice women?!
Hold everything!
I love literature, but don't read that much. I like being active, but I watch a lot of tv. I prefer to eat healthy, but there's nothing like a Double Western. I love the outdoors, but I can't resist staying inside when it's cold.
...
I don't ski/snowboard (not because I'm bad--I've tried them both once and was pretty good; it's just not my thing), and I refuse to watch bowling. That's not too bad, right? I don't throw like a girl--I can't respect anyone who does.
...
I'm currently working for the FAA as an air traffic controller.
...
I Spend a Lot of Time Thinking About
How to improve the traffic in Los Angeles. But I've come to the realization that it can only be done by non-egalitarian means. I'm willing to make that sacrifice--are YOU?
This is The One!
You know, Ogged, you might want to seriously reconsider what you're looking for, because it sounds like you're looking for someone like . . . me.
I think that emotional baggage thing comes from the fact that most guys spend first dates bitching about their most recent ex. It's a real turn-off to me when a guy says he spent six years with a woman he never really thought was pretty, or ten years married to a woman who cares about nothing but handbags. This is not confidence-building for your date. I actually like talking about exes, but in ways that make it clear that I had good reasons for liking them, but it didn't work out.
21: Well, yes. But Ogged really, really, really doesn't want to admit it.
it can only be done by non-egalitarian means
Does that translate into advocating those express pay lanes in freeways? Because that's just stupid.
Air traffic controller? Well, you won't be the biggest cause of stress in her life, not matter what.
24: For a 39-year old woman who gave birth to a ten-pound baby? You can kiss my shapely bottom, Mr. Ogged.
Because that's just stupid.
But she likes to play catch, JM.
I had the same thought as 19. I mean literally, with the indexical reference shift and everything. You basically want to date your commentariat.
I'd suggest a hiatus, except that that seems to make you post more.
But she likes to play catch, JM.
So she's into anal?
20: Yeah, I definitely prefer to give the impression that I'm still in love with my previous ex.
There's nothing wrong with playing catch.
w-lfs-n! Stop it with the dirty hermeneutics!
Just shut up about the ex, boys! We know we're probably not your first date or first girlfriend. We don't need to know about her before we've ordered coffee.
32: Not in love with, just respectful of. I sometimes find myself in conversations with guys, thinking, "Obviously, he's the type who will date someone he secretly loathes for a long time and wait for her to break up with him so he can blame her. I don't want to become that girl." I'm more flattered if someone I'm going out with has had good, happy relationships with smart, attractive women and he still prefers me than if he has only been out with hideous, demanding bitches and I'm, like, kind of a step up.
"Just shut up about the ex, boys! We know we're probably not your first date or first girlfriend. We don't need to know about her before we've ordered coffee."
So we shouldn't wink and say "she liked to play catch" on a first date?
Yeah, the "let me tell you about my ex" thing is weird. Do you really want to send the message that you're comparing the person in front of you to someone else, favorably or unfavorably, as if she were something you were thinking of purchasing? It's kinda off-putting.
35: I guess I disagree, kind of. I like to hear about exes, plural. Any guy who talks only about one ex is trouble.
Does all this chatting-about-the-ex really happen? I mean, how many obviously worse strategies are there, apart from talking about the children you've killed or whatever.
I always wanted to know about the ex. Like, is he really an ex? Does he know he is an ex?
How someone describes an ex can tell you a lot about them.
I'm familiar with the skiing code, but what the hell is "snowboard" code for? Rock? Heroin?
What if there's a reason relevant to the conversation to mention your ex?
39: Yeah, but I like to know what I'm buying, too. I hate it when dudes pretend I'm the only person they've ever known because I don't get a chance to plumb the depths of his attitude toward partners.
40: But there's a difference between simply talking about one's life, which includes references occasionally to people one knows, including one's exes, and sitting down to a "date" and launching into a monologue about someone the person you're with doesn't know and is effectively auditioning to replace.
Does all this chatting-about-the-ex really happen?
I was going to ask the same thing, but then I remembered that I probably did some of this back when I was 22 or so.
Any guy who talks only about one ex is trouble.
Fuck.
41: Seems to. Usually when the guy's recently been dumped, and hasn't moved on from the need-validation-and-comfort phase before trying to date the next girl.
I actually only talk about exes if there's a particular story involved. I try my best not to talk negatively about them.
Surely one shouldn't talk about the ex or exes on the first date.
I'm not saying it's all one should talk about, but it's really hard to get a date to explain what it is he is looking for. (Marriage? I'm not your girl. Facial cockslapping? I'm not your girl.) Knowing whether a guy's been married before, if he's dated a certain type a lot, if he's undersexed--these are important details.
44 and 50 make essentially the same point, yet B singles 50 out for praise. What's Kotsko got that I don't got, other than no beard?
sitting down to a "date" and launching into a monologue about someone the person you're with doesn't know and is effectively auditioning to replace.
Yeah, exactly. Obviously you'll pay attention to how they talk about them if it comes up in some natural context. But this is clearly different from self-absorbed blather about one's previous relationships.
AWB, I'm fine with it coming up eventually, or even casually (as ben suggests, it could be relevant). But dishing on someone I don't know is rarely going to make the guy look like a winner. Nothing wrong with not leading off with how she gooshed your heart into little pieces.
Adam's just trying to get into my newly-single pants.
It's better, too, when people are on good terms with at least some of their exes. I am always a little uneasy around people whose romantic philosophy is "love them until one day you hate them, then hate them forever". Weirdly, I know a couple of people like this.
There's a significant portion of 50 that's missing from 44, douche-bag.
I'm not saying it's all one should talk about, but it's really hard to get a date to explain what it is he is looking for. (Marriage? I'm not your girl. Facial cockslapping? I'm not your girl.)
Don't you get time to figure that out? Does it have to be laid out on the first date?
58: I wish I was better at staying friends with exes. We always say we will, but I always end up friend-dumped because of a jealous new girlfriend.
The best thing about dating is the stories you get. You run across CRAZY people and fun people. I loved dating.
AWB: I give someone credit who brings up facial cockslapping on a first date. What a fabulous story to tell your friends.
I think calling me a douche-bag counts as speaking negatively about (or anyway to) an ex of yours, Adam.
I don't get that about bringing up exes, either. I mean, fine, if they ask it would be weird to be all evasive, but really the last thing I want to talk about with a girl I just met is people I used to date.
Otoh, it did happen to me once, unintentionally. First date, new place, about 10 minutes in I had to have this conversation. "So, let me tell you about Mary[*]", "Um, ok, who's that", "My ex. Who apparently has a job here, but I didn't know.", "Great", "Yeah." ...
I guess I wouldn't want to date someone who'd broken up with his ex like a week before I met him. I'm not sure how I'd find that out without alluding to exes on the first date. Still, it would be too intrusive (by my lights) to inquire too far into the previous relationship on a first or second date.
"It's better, too, when people are on good terms with at least some of their exes. I am always a little uneasy around people whose romantic philosophy is "love them until one day you hate them, then hate them forever". Weirdly, I know a couple of people like this. "
As always, Frowner nails it.
57: I always envisioned you wearing skirts.
60: What else are you going to talk about? Obviously, first dates are just negotiations toward sex. And unless you can keep up flirty banter with a stranger for three hours, explaining previous sexual contexts is not a bad way to spend that time.
We always say we will, but I always end up friend-dumped because of a jealous new girlfriend.
This is as near perfect as backhandedly self-serving relationship comments get.
61: Well, the thing is, it's taken me a long time to build friendships with exes--we never "just stayed friends". We broke up, didn't talk for various lengths of time, and then talked again and started hanging out. I'm experiencing a mini-friend dump right now because one of 'em just got into a serious relationship and is too busy, but on the whole, these are the types of friendships in which we can just pick up where we left off.
I lived with an ex (several years after we'd broken it off) for oh, three or four years.
I had a first date. She was telling me about how she moved from San Diego to Norfolk with her husband. When I ask her what happened to her husband, she said he was deployed. As I asked her when they separated, she said "I consider us separated five months ago."
Panicked, I asked whether he knew they were separated. She said, I think so.
Did I mention he was a SEAL?
70: That seems wise, Frowner. I'm trying to negotiate a friendship right now, but I keep wondering whether we'll be able to. Maybe time will make it easier.
I'm friends with most of my exes. The one who isn't my friend any more has a wife who can't stand me. It's a shame, because he's a great guy.
With the breakups I've had, usually we needed a pretty significant radio silence period before we could move onto being friends. One ended badly as in didn't-speak-for-nearly-four-years bad, but we're friends now.
So with all this talk of first dates...er, you guys actually go on "dates"? I usually just hang out with people, and eventually we decide we'll go on a date, but that's really after we've already decided that we're going to be dating, so to speak. So I generally know a lot about people before any significant physical contact gets made.
you guys actually go on "dates"?
Only if I get permission from her father first.
69: Not as much as it probably seems without knowing me, Gonerill. I think it's because I'm never as pretty as the girls my exes go on to date, and if there's one thing scarier than a well-thought-of ex who is gorgeous, it's a well-thought-of ex who is not.
I didn't, really; most everyone I've date dwas a friend for a while first. My sister does, though, and the number of times the guy starts off with something about his ex leads me to suspect she's attracted to moody vulnerable morons.
75: Actually, I was thinking that perhaps this was some kind of sophisticated, coastal dating that we yokels in Minnesota don't have, since we just sort of stand around slack-jawed until one of us hauls the other off to coffee.
What's Kotsko got that I don't got?
More than one ex.
In New York, everyone is so damned busy that you have to schedule (a week or so in advance!) an hourlong lunch with an old friend. Simply hanging out and getting to know people through osmosis is impossible. I'm not saying it's better, but it's how these things seem to work around here.
If only there were a pithy phrase to express the bind in which I find myself.
More than one ex.
w-lfs-n doesn't have exes, only women who he hasn't let return yet.
78: This produced a little terrible indie movie in my mind.
OTOH, I wouldn't date Frowner (or she wouldn't date me), because I'm not in touch with any of my exes.
I consider this a mark of good character: I don't break up with someone until it's truly, inevitably clear that the relationship is completely over.
76: Well obviously I know nothing about you, and no offence meant: it just had the ring of, "Sadly, the new-arrival girlfriends can never compete with my wonderfulness even though I try so hard to accommodate them."
w-lfs-n doesn't have exes, only women who he hasn't let return yet.
Yeah, that's right, I hook up in continuation-passing style.
85: Because a sexual relationship is over, you cannot be friends? I do not understand that.
81: Yeah, and you thought being a virgin was bad.
88: But B is non-monogamous, so she doesn't need to break up to explore other possibilities. I, being bound by my monogamy, am forced to break up with perfectly sweet, kind, wonderful individuals when the sex lags. Which makes for a good character? Sadly, neither and both.
85: Because a sexual relationship is over, you cannot be friends? I do not understand that.
This may be a definitional issue. If it's just sex, isn't the other person just a "fuck buddy"? In which case, if that relationship stops is she an "ex"?
85: See, you're like my weird friends. Weird! It's a good thing you're in sunny locale whose name I can't remember, so that I can't fall in ill-fated love, huh?
With being friends with exes, I can't bear to think that someone whose finer qualities I'd liked and admired was now someone I couldn't stand.
84, there are terrible little indie movies galore about 78.
91 does a nice job of responding to 85 so that I don't have to.
I, being bound by my monogamy, am forced to break up with perfectly sweet, kind, wonderful individuals when the sex lags.
Seriously? Seems like a recipe for permanent disappointment in the medium term.
The only exes I've cut off contact with deliberately were the ones I regretted: regretted either breaking up with them (1) or regretted dating them in the first place (1). I'm not saying it's a healthy way of dealing with an ex---I've stayed friendly with the others, and that's much better---but it seems to be the only way I can deal with those two.
Has anyone here besides B had "fuck buddies"? I am really confused by what this is. I've had people I've had sex with and not promised any kind of longevity or commitment to, but that would cover every relationship I've ever had.
95: Not really. I like being single, and there's always sex somewhere else. I'd rather be single and friends than lie there every night next to someone who's not in the mood.
w-lfs-n doesn't have exes, only women who he hasn't let return yet.
w-lfs-n doesn't have exes, only girls he hasn't let out of the locked room in the basement.
My dating technique is so unstoppable, any woman with whom I go on a formal date will eventually wind up wanting to marry me.
I hate to say this, but 87 is the greatest fucking joke ever. Too bad it's potential audience, even if broadcast 24-7 on national television is like 7 people.
97: "Fuck buddies" are friends with whom you basically don't do any other relationship-type stuff apart from the coitus. Sometimes there's an explicit talk about how neither party is looking for anything more than sex, sometimes it's just a friend whom you wind up having sex with on occasion. It's not a very stable status and can often segue into relationship territory.
I am with frowner. I do not understand how you go from being in a relationship to having no contact whatsoever.
I've remained friends with all of my significant others.
100: Do you warn women beforehand? I mean, I'd never go on a date under those conditions.
I really hate to say this, Walt, especially after that compliment, but I think you mean "its audience".
97: What's so confusing? A fb is someone who you're basically friends with but for whatever reason you're not "a couple," and yet you like them and think they're attractive and they feel the same way about you, so once in a while you have sex.
Either that or it's someone you're having sex with but don't actually like very much, and are just kind of using (or being used by) b/c no one else is out there. But that's kind of a shitty situation to be in.
105: Maybe he's only had the one formal date, and is married now, so, like anecdote=data.
104: I've remained friends with all of my significant others.
For me, the "remaining friends" thing would be masochistic. I'm friendly with most of my exes, but if we still wanted to spendany significant amount of time with each other we wouldn't be exes.
Wait a second, Chopper. You and I have met for a meal on more than one occasion.
w-lfs-n doesn't have exes, only girls he hasn't let out of the locked room in the basement.
w-lfs-n doesn't have exes, only unworthies.
if we still wanted to spendany significant amount of time with each other we wouldn't be exes.
Exactly. I'm going to just outsource my relationship commenting to Dr. S. from here on out.
107: I keep trying to figure out if I've had that, and if I did, it is all I've had, or if I haven't had that, because we always end up talking about stuff. (Guys are always finishing off a night of sex with "the story of how my dad accidentally killed himself" or something.) Basically: no one should ever take dating advice from me ever, because none of my experiences make for good extrapolation.
106 - Then don't say it. Log into the server and delete your comment. And then every time in the future you get the urge to correct the spelling, grammar, or punctuation of anyone who compliments you, whip yourself with a cat o' nine tails.
Nothing much to narrate--I've started three relationships with formal, can-I-take-you-to-dinner dates. All three turned into relationships where it was made clear to me that I could marry my gal. The last one stuck.
115: I like that approach because it puts the evening in a clear context. Accepting that kind of date means she's interested in you. Half-assed "Wanna hang out later?" stuff doesn't make the context clear.
Has anyone here besides B had "fuck buddies"?
Yes, but they kept wanting more out of the relationship.
Maybe I should just conclude that I'm just too awesome for women to resist.
Even though I just used just twice in one sentence.
109: That's exactly what I don't understand--how could you not want to spend time with a person you liked enough to date, unless they were a huge disappointment to you or unless you look for a lot less personality in dates than in friends?
This probably has to do with how we conceive of romantic relationships. I'm basically looking for bestest-friends-forever-with-benefits, and I don't find it too hard to reconceive of things as pretty-good-friends-without-benefits. Also the great thing about being friends with an ex is the lack of secrets because hey, they're already had sex with you, probably seen you behave pretty damn badly during the break-up, etc. It's almost a waste of someone who still likes you even though they've seen you look vulnerable/ridiculous if you're not friends with them.
The ex I lived with? One of the few straight male friends I have with whom I talk about sex in reasonable detail with reasonable honesty.
114.---Walt, despite your new fancy last name, I know you're not that new around here.
because we always end up talking about stuff
Having a fb doesn't mean you can't talk. That's what the "friends" part is about. It just means you don't assume that you'll spend the weekends together, that they're not dating or trying to date other people, or that you're going to make decisions "together."
110: Those weren't dates, B. And even though they weren't, you still kinda want me.
Has anyone here besides B had "fuck buddies"?
Yes.
122: Yeah, but only because I'm indiscriminate like that.
Wait, are all these people who stay friends with their exes people who have also stayed in the same geographic location for the last ten years? Because moving around changes a lot of the calculation here.
I stayed best friends with an ex for six years. We used to call each other brother and sister. That intimacy was really intense. But then we had sex again and spoiled it. After that, the friendship limped along for another two years before it died. We haven't spoken in a year and a half.
121: Then I've never had a relationship that went beyond being fuck-buddies. I likes my independence.
"For me, the "remaining friends" thing would be masochistic. I'm friendly with most of my exes, but if we still wanted to spendany significant amount of time with each other we wouldn't be exes."
Define significant amount of time.
I've got kids, a job, a significant other, hobbies, and a bunch of friends.
I dont spend significant time with anyone but my kids and gf.
101: It's a lot more than seven...It might even be 7 here.
119: how could you not want to spend time with a person you liked enough to date
It's usually that whatever proved enough of an irritant to derail the dating will also derail any sustained after-relationships. I'm not talking about casual acquaintanceship here; having an occasional coffee or beer with someone isn't a big deal. I'm talking about regular contact -- I wouldn't want to make a weekly or monthly thing out of seeing any of my exes, for instance (much less could I fathom living with any of them).
I did take a good shot at the "being friends" thing once, regularly hanging out with someone I'd broken up with... but that wound up lapsing back into a relationship and shortly into a second breakup which was considerably uglier than the first. That would be another reason I'm not into the whole concept.
Happily enough, I think 132 also answers 130.
119: Seriously, why would you break up with someone you liked enough to want to spend significant amounts of time with?
cares, but in a passive, intellectual way.
Your killing me softly with your blog.
I call it "dirtyneutics".
I call it "hermeneuticles".
132, etc: It occurs to me that I don't spend too much time with any of my friends, either...I have a couple of friends I see through activist stuff once a week, but with everyone else it's once every four to six weeks. So I would only see an ex once every four to six weeks at the best of times anyway, which seems to fit more into your "friendly" rubric.
125: No, but with lots of friends in common, it's not always moot just because we're no longer in the same town.
I call it "hermeneuticles".
Hermeneuticles are teh prosthetic. Dirtyneutics are for real.
134: I've had several relationships end while we both still wanted to spend significant amounts of time together. In some cases one of us moved for work and the other did not wish to follow; in a couple cases she was looking to get married sooner than I was.
121: Then I've never had a relationship that went beyond being fuck-buddies.
This does not jibe with my impressions based on your own blog.
141: Well, I've never had a relationship that fits B's description of "expecting to spend weekends together" or "making decisions together." Even my longest-term relationship never involved either of these.
Marriage? I'm not your girl. Facial cockslapping? I'm not your girlMarriage? I'm not your girl. Facial cockslapping? I'm not your girl
dear me, with every year that goes by I become more of a stockbroker and less of an economist. It took me a full five minutes to work out that yes, the preference system defined by those two statements does need at least one more axiom before the possibility "Marriage and facial cockslapping? I'm your girl!" can be ruled out. And possibly a second axiom if one wants to rule out some strange corner cases of highly nonlinear combinations of marriage and facial cockslapping.
Repetition, dsquared's your girl.
These innocent questions about "why would you break up with someone you still like" are kind of pissing me off.
I also try to sound a little less cynical than I really am on ye old blog, which is probably read by whatever gentleman I'm dating. Even if we're on the same page, no one likes their relationship publicly described in those terms.
145: Me too, Adam, in that they imply that liking someone at all is a reason to keep dating them. Does that mean that I ask for far too much, in requesting that my partners be not only likable, but also on the same page about non-marriage and constant intercourse?
I will now no longer write comments containing the phrase "on the same page." Sorry. I'm out of it.
Does your species of bear live in Chicago?
Band name suggested by 36: Herman's Neutics.
145: Not "why would you break up"--I'm a ruthless breaker-upper, that's why I have such an array of exes--but why wouldn't you want to reconstruct a friendship with? That is, if you were talking to me.
Although I view the existence of people who don't want to be friends with their exes more as a fascinating example of The Wideness Of The World than anything else.
See, if there's a fundamental problem with the relationship--the other person is crazy, or wants a commitment you're not willing to make, or is a control freak, or whatever--then yeah, that's a reason to break up. But I would think that if there's a *fundamental problem* that you also wouldn't want to keep hanging out with them, or vice-versa. If I wanted to marry someone, and they broke up with me, that would be painful, and I would not want to "just be friends." If I thought someone was a fucking drama queen and I was sick of getting yanked around, I wouldn't want to be friends. What I, at least, am objecting to is the idea that the "breaking up" basically means "we stopped having sex," as if there weren't a *reason* that the relationship didn't work out.
All my past relationships I've still enjoyed hanging out with the person when they ended. That's what makes it hard.
Good reasons to break up though: they cheated on me, they're fundie babtists, they're cosmically depressed and I'm graduating college, etc.
Hadn't read 152 yet. I agree with the last sentence.
142: I've never had a relationship that fits B's description of "expecting to spend weekends together" or "making decisions together."
How about a relationship in which you and the other party have specific agreements / expectations about whether or not you can sleep with other parties? Expectations that your partner would be at least invited to most social occasions you take part in and vice versa, even if they don't always take you up on it? Expectations that your partner would be a major consideration in major life-changing decisions (moving to a new city, taking up a different career, whatever) because they're important enough that you'd want them to come with you or would seek their advice? Any of those would make it more than a fb relationship.
Is there a special bonus category for "Exes you don't hang out with because you might seriously, no-kidding murder them"? Or does that blend in too much with the Betting Pool thread below?
You do realize that most of my real-true exes are people I dated in high school, since I started dating Mr. B. when I was 18. Except for the current boyfriend, pretty much everyone since has been a fb.
155: I have mostly had relationships founded on an expectation that we weren't also sleeping with other people, but mostly because I'm not interested in contracting STDs. I have considered more open situations, but that would involve more trust and together-decision-making than I'm ready for.
158: Seriously, why is it more likely that you'll get an STD from someone who's non-monogamous than from someone who's serially monogamous?
I feel like there's some kind of underlying assumption that there's a continuum of relationships, and you can just turn things down so that you're no longer dating, but still friends. But I feel like friendship and a dating relationship are qualitatively different things (for instance), and it can be more painful to be in continual contact with someone and not to be getting what you want than to be out of contact with them altogether.
I would also propose that sometimes a person you would want to date is not the same kind of person you'd want to be casual friends with.
161.--Sufficient time between partners to conduct tests.
Is 161 a serious question? The most obvious answer to me is that the whole transmission/symptoms/diagnosis/inform-your-partner cycle takes time, and the more people you're sleeping with, the more possibility there is for something to be transmitted before anyone is aware (and/or while they're still in denial).
But how do you feel about the proposition expressed in your last sentence?
161: It's not a reasonable fear. I've just always had a paranoia that if I contracted something, I'd know where it came from and wouldn't also have to contact someone else and say, "Uh, sorry."
"Framebuffer" would be an excellent euphemism. Also, 162 is right.
Whoops, JM-pwned.
Kotsko, I think people are using "friends" in different ways.
"Framebuffer" would be an excellent euphemism.
For what, though?
164: Yeah, it kind of was serious. I mean, assuming that one uses condoms (which I assume people who aren't in long-term relationships do), it's not *terribly* likely that a non-monogamous partner is going to catch an STD and then pass it on to you. And do you really go through a period between every relationship where you go and get tested, as opposed to just getting a blood screen annually with your Pap? What happens if you meet someone before you make an appointment/get the results/etc.?
Adam's making sense to me. I am not in touch with any exes, but think I'd like to be with several, and don't see any reason why that couldn't happen.
Nonetheless, the people I've befriended and the people I had relationships with were seldom, no never the same people.
In particular, sometimes "friends" means A has unrequited love for B, who likes the attention. Especially in your late teens/early twenties.
170: I've only occasionally slept with someone who I've been careful with, but suspected of possibly being not-careful in the past, and I'll go get tested before dating again.
172: Damn it, stop spying on me!!!
And do you really go through a period between every relationship where you go and get tested
Yes.
174: You know you love the attention.
Huh. I just get tested annually, and use condoms.
I have more of a tendancy to be "A." In situations where someone else is the "A," I usually get really fucking creeped out.
There's also stuff condoms won't prevent, like crabs. It's not like one needs a test to figure that one out, but it's surprising how dumb people can be about stuff like that.
Hey, you know what takes longer than you expect? Getting a passport.
(This comment is not necessarily as irrelevant as it seems.)
Also, dudes are really variable in their condom-application talents.
Crabs would suck (I've never had them, thank god), but at least they're treatable. The main stuff that would worry me is the stuff that doesn't go away.
It's just that it seems like "mountaineering world-traveler" would sell better than "undermotivated slug looking for nice guy with issues to attend couples therapy with." Or am I wrong?
"Crabs would suck" s/b "Crabs would itch"
182: I got them while losing my virginity. Very annoying. That was also an open relationship, so maybe I take it out on open relationships.
You can transmit herpes while using a condom, for example, though it does make it less likely.
Also, dudes are really variable in their condom-application talents.
So is the idea that dudes with bad condom skills don't have to use them, or what?
187: Yes, yes, I know that. But you can also get herpes from a *previous* partner rather than a *parallel* one.
188: Improper use creates a higher likelihood of breakage, slippage, &c.
183: I would totally choose the second over the first (ceteris paribus), but I doubt I'm typical.
180: Yup. Not just the traditional longer wait because it's springtime and people are planning for summer travel, but the new laws are really slowing things up.
Something else you wouldn't expect: that the post office uses a circa-1960 Polaroid-looking camera to take the infamous photo. Who knew?
183: Is that the choice though? Why is what commercial lawyers call "Puffery," something you're expected to discount, always part of the process? I thought Ogged was wondering why nobody ever attempted a realistic, or at least more realistic self-presentation.
What are the stats on female-to-male transmission while using condoms?
But I feel like friendship and a dating relationship are qualitatively different things (for instance), and it can be more painful to be in continual contact with someone and not to be getting what you want than to be out of contact with them altogether.
I used to disagree, but I ended up believing that I was totally wrong. Friendship doesn't become love, at least not the two times I wanted it to, and when love is gone friendship doesn't really replace it, at least not the time I tried. They're not opposites, but they're not on a continuum.
I'm even using a courier service (the one Becks recommended) and the wait has already been much longer than they had advertised.
The camera mine was taken with (at the school store rather than the PO) was not just Polaroid-looking but an actual Polaroid. Bizarre.
189: For me, it's the difference in the social position that would put me in. If someone I was starting to date had herpes, I'd expect him to tell me, or vice versa. But if someone contracted herpes and then came and slept with me, he probably wouldn't take the time to get tested and find out beforehand. It would be an intolerable situation for me to be in, not knowing which partner gave it to me and to whom I gave them. My personal sexual rules are based around maximizing my happiness in sexual situations by identifying what would creep me out.
I'm going to call the courier service tomorrow and see what they say. I may have to cancel my tickets.
I know two women who work as banana ladies going around to health lasses explaining how to put condoms on properly.
And that's why American civilization is falling apart.
193: Actually, if I were ever to write a personal ad, that *would* be a realistic self-presentation. My alternative is "Needy middle-child seeking guy who likes t.v. and doesn't expect to stay out past 8:30." I think this is why I've never written a personal ad...
I can't imagine writing one either.
I would have thought condoms were almost foolproof; they certainly seemed so when I used them. What are the ways people mess up?
Men with massive cocks can sometimes break condoms when, in their modesty, they use the normal-sized ones.
And men with tiny cocks find the condom falling off and have to grope around fishing it out.
I don't mean you, Adam. I'm sure the rumors are false.
I am trying to think of what my "realistic" ad would say, but it wouldn't be very nice.
I think most of the condom failures I've seen have been due to nervous hands.
178: Yes, that's horrible. It's no fun being A or B. And indeed, the one ex-like-person-I'm-not-friends-with was an A, mostly because I hadn't wanted to be a B-who-liked-the-attention but didn't have the social skills to stop what was going on. On the other hand both of us seem to have learned enough to avoid A-and-B-dom over time.
My friends are a lot like my friends-with-benefits, and I get crushes on my friends that come and go, so I suppose it's easier for me to be friends with exes. Really, my life is on such an even keel most of the time that it would make most people weep with boredom.
203: I once tried inflating and twisting one into a balloon animal shape and wearing it around my neck as an anti-fertility fetish. I was later informed that doesn't work.
Teo, that stinks. (And for all I know, it was actually a Polaroid at my post office too. I just didn't look closely.)
Friendship doesn't become love, at least not the two times I wanted it to, and when love is gone friendship doesn't really replace it
First I agree with TLL, and now JE. Is it a full moon or something? (N.b. I have known a handful of cases in which the friendship, years later, did not "replace" the love, but carved out its own place.)
Why is what commercial lawyers call "Puffery," something you're expected to discount, always part of the process?
It's not always, just often.
I thought Ogged was wondering why nobody ever attempted a realistic, or at least more realistic self-presentation.
Pick one:
a) lack of originality ("I like to go out or stay in" takes less effort to write than "I love the ballpark on summer evenings, but I also enjoy stoop-sitting with a large iced tea.")
b) lack of confidence (aka: I don't know how to write a good profile, oh look, other people are using these phrases, that looks good).*
c) lack of interest in doing more than stringing socially-recognizable code phrases together to try to find another member of the club
*The punctuation is on purpose, w-lfs-n, I don't want to hear about it.
Yeah, Witt, I think the encoding of profiles has gotten to the point that, were you to come out and just say what you wanted and who you were, everyone would assume it meant something else. (Like the way that "healthy" gets taken for "grotesquely obese," etc.) When I was writing profiles, I had slighty cryptic descriptions of myself that hinted mostly at my weirdness, along with pictures of me that were unflattering. Every guy who went out with me did so because he thought I might be worth a laugh and a good talk, and then, finding me prettier than he expected, surprisingly sexually attractive.
For inspiration there's always They Call Me Naughty Lola.
Every guy who went out with me did so because he thought I might be worth a laugh and a good talk, and then, finding me prettier than he expected, surprisingly sexually attractive.
Those sound like very good results to me.
See, I think the codes are shared by some of the people, some of the time. Which leads to funny and not-so-funny misunderstandings. Example: The skiing thing that you yourself pointed out.
It makes for fertile ground for a sociologist or anthropologist. I'm sure there are plenty who are already doing the research.
212: It'll turn out all right, but I may end up having to drive in (you can still do that with just a driver's license and birth certificate, right?). The main issue is going to be flying into Teoville on such short notice, which is likely to be extremely pricy.
From the current issue:
I'd slide a hand up your leg. If you had a leg. M, 52, hoping to meet woman who'll give him a hand. Box no. 05/05.
---
My last affair ended with a round of applause from a crew of stand-by paramedics. If the next one has to end I'll settle for a text message. Woman, 39, seeks man who knows when to wear his Medic Alert badge, carries his own emergency injectable adrenaline kit, and isn't too scared to say "Actually, I don't feel like lobster tonight." Box no. 05/10.
It'll turn out all right, but I may end up having to drive in (you can still do that with just a driver's license and birth certificate, right?)
Yup.
203 - If you pull them tight and don't leave a little pocket of air, they're more likely to break.
See, I think the codes are shared by some of the people, some of the time.
DUH DUH DUH.
Um, excuse me. There is sometimes, somewheres, a tendency to assume that the codes one knows are the codes that goes, and either not to be aware that, no, they're just your codes, or to be aware that they're codes, but to deny that they're just yours, insisting that, contrariwise, they're rational or otherwise to be adopted.
Turgid little squibs on semiotics = I want to make it with egrets
Why, in contrast to Ben w-lfs-n, don't timid pirates fancy egrets?
It's obviously a palindrome, the other half of which is in Old German. Ster gehtiw tiekamott nawiscito im esnosbiuq selt tildig rut.
I don't know, Standpipe. Why don't timid pirates fancy egrets?
Ich habe selt tildig rut angebunden.
Ster geycnaf setar ip di mittnodyhw.
Because, Jackmormon, they lack an arrrrrrrrrrrrr.
Ordinarily, I'd call that a satisfying answer.
Except for that big ol' R in the middle of "egret" that is.
I completely don't understand why timid pirates lack an Arrrrrr.
RE 161
This is a big problem in africa where men and women often have multiple concurrent partners. It is less of a big deal in the US where this is less common. In an epidemic, it matters alot what other people are doing.
Perhaps something could be done with egrets and regrets?
That, or timid pirates don't say "arrr" like aggressive pirates do.
Althouse epitaph: indestructible misologist quits teeming soliloquist subdistrict.
Then I don't see how they're pirates at all.
Perhaps something could be done with egrets and regrets?
I don't know. It would have to be subtle.
Perhaps they've had their tongues ripped out. It wouldn't make them any less greedy for galleons, you know.
Greed for galleons is a good way to tell if you've got a pirate on your hands when he's being taciturn, but the only way to be sure is if you can catch him saying "Arrrr".
No one with his tongue ripped out can possibly be a pirate.
I'm even using a courier service (the one Becks recommended) and the wait has already been much longer than they had advertised.
This is why I'm happy I work a block away from the passport office. I left getting my passport renewed until way too late before going abroad last year, and I was able to get it in two days from the passport office. I feel sorry for the people who have to go to a different state to get theirs on short notice.
I submit that you can lack an X even while possessing an X.
So if I say "Arrrrrr" or when Peter Saarsgaard on Saturday Night Live say "Arrrrr", we thereby become pirates within the utterance?
No, saying "arrrr" is necessary but not sufficient for pirate status.
I don't think SB actually knows much about pirates.
Quit suing, belletristic sodomist.
you can lack an X even while possessing an X
Also, X can both mark and transgressively reinscribe the spot.
Ôwê der friunde, die ich vorloren hân.
Nu muoz ich leider eine bî mînen víánden stân.
John: Oh, where's my dear old gang done gone, I heard a sad man say.
I whispered in that sad man's ear, "Your gang's done gone away."
So Clownae, when did you last visit Old High Germany?
On the one hand I hesitate to chime in because I'm relatively new to a close-knit blog and commentariat (and because the discussion has evolved into multilingual pirate nitpicking), but on the other hand, all this stuff has very much been on my mind recently, so here goes. I had a first date with someone I met through an online dating service. It went well, and we're now negotiating plans for our second date. I was pleasantly surprised to see that we had a lot more in common than I would have guessed, just based on her profile. But then, I'm pretty sure I left the same kind of things out of my own profile, so I can't complain.
Why the vagueness, or subcultural code or unnecessary self-promotion, on dating Web sites? My own bit of armchair psychoanalyzing is that it's still useful as a glimpse at the kind of person they'd like to be, which is often just as meaningful as the kind of person they are. If someone says they paint, they might not have picked up a brush in three years, but it still tells you what kind of decor they go for in their apartment and what kind of hobby they'll take up in a midlife crisis and stuff. If someone says they kickbox, they may only go to class once a month, but curling up to watch kung fu movies is their idea of a perfect weekend afternoon. For example. That perspective falls apart because it could just as easily be a view of what they think is sexy or "normal" rather than what they want for themselves, but it's worth considering.
We did talk a little bit about our respective exes on my date, but mostly because of something else neither of us could have predicted from the profiles: she knows my ex-girlfriend. Not well, but when my date invited me to something she's organizing I got all pensive because it sounded like the kind of thing she would be at, and sure enough, she might show up.
No one with his tongue ripped out can possibly be a pirate.
This is patent nonsense. Pirates, of all people, have good reasons to lie and slander; and liars and slanderers, of all people, would have good reason to become pirates, as they would no longer be able to present oral arguments in court.
No one with his tongue ripped out can possibly be a pirate.
You can't be a real pirate if you're not missing some pieces.
The peg tongue would be an impediment when it came to oral sex.
