Embedding two pieces of audio like that means they'll both play at once, ogged. Tom will tell you how to do it all fancy-like; in the meantime, there's nothing wrong with uploading an mp3 to the server and then linking to it.

That second song's really good, though.

Your first sentence is false, as should be obvious to you by now. And linking is so 90s.

That second song's really good, though.

Yeah, isn't it? I was blown away.

Your first sentence is false, as should be obvious to you by now.

My first sentence may be false but you're still doing it wrong!

That much I've admitted, and now that you've admitted that you're no help, I'm reasonably happy.

Upload the fucking mp3, dammit.

Ok, changed them to links, but only because the embedded files were loading every time the page was refreshed. Certainly not to make either of you happy.

Oddeg is turning this place into a goodamn myspace alike. whats next, flashing pink glitter titles?

Thanks for those. Somehow I'd never come across him before either. What a heartbreaking life story.

Thanks, Ogged. XOXOXO.

I found the second song quite affecting, even though I couldn't make out much of the lyric - anyone here have more googling patience or skill than me and nothing better to do?

This is what I typed out just now as I listened to it again. I think it's close, if not exactly right.

i seem to tumble in the wind
i wait for it to begin
when i look at you
i aint too proud to say
i once loved a girl this way
i bring trouble on my lonesome self
i see danger in each ? ?
times are hard
the money just won't come through
i would be alone if not for you
they brought my in on a flatcar
down from old hong kong
tried to tell me what i was doing
was absolutely wrong
tried to make me over
into a man of steel
but i knew i would have to kneel
from the plains of alberta
with its ? so wild and strong
i rode over the lokies?
till i came to saskatchewan
from a hardback in my satchel
i read the words quite clear
hurry home to your loved ones now
wintertime is near
i seem to stumble in the wind
i wait for it to begin
when i look at you
i ain't too proud to say
i once loved a girl this way

i see danger in each ? ?

Maybe "in each offer of help."

Wow. That is a beautiful song.

with its ? so wild and strong

wheat, I think. The next line has me stumped.

Here's a blog post with links to Frank's 'Blues Run the Game' plus half a dozen covers, from Nick Drake to The Decemberists.

srry mr ogg i'm only grumpy b/c i'm at the parents place, and sobre, and can't listen to the tunes.

Great find, Jesus.

In fact, reading about Nick Drake is how I came across Frank's name.

I've got a four-album set of Drake, I thought that was all there was.

Thanks for the lyrics. I found "I rolled over the Northlands 'til I came to Saskatchewan" on wikipedia under Saskatchewan.

Yeah, I have that same four album set, and I was surprised. But there's a bunch of songs on the album that's from that I haven't heard.

Amazon didn't have it, but I just ordered it from ebay.

Any idea why these play fine in IE7 but not in Firefox? They skip around like a scratched CD in FF.

But you shouldn't order it! This has all those songs and a few more. Oops.

They play ok for me, Stanley. If you're talking about the mp3s in the main post, of course you can just download them and play them however you want.

25: Right. This happened on another site earlier tonight, and downloading was a quick fix there, too. I was wondering if Quicktime and FF don't get along. I haven't used FF that often, so I don't know it that well.

Also: can you supply examples of this:

contemporary male folk singers think their very sensitive and emotive singing is pleasing

Not trolling; genuinely curious whom you're talking about.

I don't have names, since it's an impression based on bringing up songs on rhapsody and listening to all the covers, and the ones I don't like are quickly forgotten, but I generally mean the really hoky folky people that most of us probably haven't heard of, not the semi-popular folk music that gets close to mainstream. Think Peter Paul & Mary, but less catchy.

Okay. Hm. How do you feel about Leonard Cohen's "Hallelujah"? (Sorry; can't find a link to a good version of it.) It seems like it might be kind of o-earnest, but I dig it nonetheless.

You have any idea how many folks songs I'm listening to now to find you a damn name? And of course none is exactly what I mean.

And I have a soft spot for Leonard Cohen.

Ok, off to bed. Find your own bad folk music! You know, Joan Baez, but male.

off to bed

Slacker. You probably don't have to work tomorrow, unlike some of us. Seriously: get a guitar; write some schlocky folk songs; convert them to midi files; and serenade us all, everyday when we pull up unfogged.com.

Rufus Wainwright's version of "Hallelujah" is great.

31: Wow. Thanks. The Spanish text was great, too. Googling, I just learned that my first encounter with the song was in a West Wing episode, and done by Jeff Buckley.

Most versions of Hallelujah seem to be covers of Jeff Buckley's version of Cohen's original.

All beautiful, but Lenny's will always be tops.

Thanks for these songs, Ogged. Indeed "(Tumble) In the Wind" is especially beautiful. I'm a sucker for roughly recorded versions of amazing songs. Feels like home.

I saw Buckley himself do his cover of Cohen's 'Hallelujah'. It was OK.

[This is another one of those 'Losing my edge' moments, I saw Buckley perform solo in the bar of the Art School in Glasgow*, and there were only about 8 people there. He was mostly 'OK' rather than outstanding. Lots of over-sung histrionics and scratchy guitar playing.]

* wikipedia tells me that must have been March '94.

In the same vein perhaps as Nick Drake, I don't imagine Buckley's legacy will be his shows, but the songs.

John Cale does a good cover of Hallelujah.

Bert Jansch (who's apparently covered "Blues Run the Game") is very good.

35 - I think Drake's phrasing and delivery in general was stronger than his writing for the most part. For me his cover of The Blues Run The Game above is by far the best.

hi girl27!

Nice find, Ogged.

Drake was also an influential and interesting guitar player, irrespective of his singing style and delivery.

Jansch too, of course.

I had no idea that song was originally by Leonard Cohen.

I just listened to the original (thank you, intertubes!). The covers do a better job of bringing out the inherent prettiness of the song. Since Cohen doesn't have a technically good singing voice, he instead uses speaking mannerisms to communicate tone. Sometimes it's an extremely striking technique: the contempt in "but you don't really like music, do you" comes across much better in the original than any of the covers.

the contempt in "but you don't really like music, do you" comes across much better in the original than any of the covers.

You know, you're right. I always sort of thought nobody else who sings that song seems to know why that line is in there.

My pick for singer who emotes too much is Richard Shindell. He seems like a friendly funny guy (despite the warning signs of having converted to Buddhism and moved to Buenos Aires), but I can't stand to hear him sing. Similarly, Pittsburgh's answer to Richard Shindell, the very talented Brad Yoder.

The thing about Richard Shindell is that he doesn't open his mouth. It's hard to sing well when your jaw is locked that tightly.

As far as Cohen, the contempt is like some of Dylan's more bitter songs, except that in his case there's generally a more forgiving undercurrent. I like Suzanne, of course, and also Dance Me to the End of Love.

He's like Tom Waits in that when you listen to him sing his own songs you tend to get something very different than, say, Madeleine Peyroux's cover.

37: Ben, Jansch's 'Blues Run the Game' is among the covers linked to in 16. He's a terrific guitarist.

My pick for singer who emotes too much is Richard Shindell

Dammit, Ned. Of course you're right, but 1) I actually own a Richard Shindell Album and worse 2) I had a running disagreement with the ex in which I claimed that his emoting was tongue-in-cheek and she said that I was deluding myself so that I could listen to his overwhelmingly o-earnest singing. She was right, of course. Although I still think the first half of Transit is tongue in cheek.

This might also be the time to note that Cold Missouri Waters is a great song in search of a proper rendition. Now there's something Jackson Frank could have sung the shit out of.

I claimed that his emoting was tongue-in-cheek

The problem with this is that not many of his lyrics are tongue-in-cheek. "Are You Happy Now", and I don't know what else.

This might also be the time to note that Cold Missouri Waters is a great song in search of a proper rendition.

Yes, definitely, that's my favorite song of his. I almost said "That and the song about the smoke jumpers", before remembering that that is the song about the smoke jumpers.

Nick Drake and Leonard Cohen are both on my list of singers I like a lot but don't listen to very often and I'm not sure why. (Well part of it is media -- all the Drake I own is on cassette tapes and all the Cohen on LP's.) I like the songs linked in this post. Interestingly, people who (expect to) like the album linked in 24 also like Neil Young Live at Massey Hall '71, according to the oracle.

that's my favorite song of his

Except that it's a cover of James Keelaghan's original.

Well, then I have no favorite song of his. Now I can safely say that he is not all that great.

So this James Keelaghan fellow, how is he on the emoting? Over-, under-, just right? Never heard of him before.

Cohen is the most amazing pop artist ever. He was originally a highbrow poet, and his lit stuff is well worth a look. He has a pleasant, weak voice and a limited range and plays guitar (if that's him) minimally. He wrote depressing, negativistic non-rocking faux-folk songs right at the end of the folk era -- folk was often sad, but in a sweet way unlike his. He trimmed his songwriting and his themes to his severe musical limitations and amazingly, it worked.

It's hard to find a blog-length Cohen poem, but look up "Selected Poems: 1956--1968".

"The doctor held up Grandma's stomach
Cancer! Cancer! he cried out...."

".....The future seemed unnecessarily black and strong
as though it had received my casual mistakes
through a carbon sheet."

".....
Like jigsaw pieces married too early
in the puzzle we are pried apart
for every new experiment, as if simplicity
and good luck were not enough to build
a rainbow through gravity and mist".

".....
Like an empty telephone booth passed at night
and remembered
like mirrors in a movie palace lobby consulted
only on the way out
like a nymphomaniac who binds thousands
into a stranger brotherhood
I wait
for each one of you to confess."

I like the idea behind Abuelita, but not so much the execution. Actually, that's true of Transit too.

Keelaghan has a great voice and over-emotes just a little, but his songs tend to lapse into monotony.

I'm guessing that Ogged (and Labs and w-lfs-n) might prefer Cohen in the Conspiracy of Beards versions. Here are the Beards doing 'Sisters of Mercy.'

Cohen is great. As someone somewhere remarks about him, time has been much kinder to his work that anyone had any reason to expect: even though it was classified as late-night, depressive bedsit music, it turned out to have a lot more to it than that.

I should search around on YouTube for an old interview with Cohen from the mid-60s, on Canadian TV: Cohen gently mocks the questions asked by the woman interviewing him, and it's like she really can't decide whether to be annoyed or have sex with him right here.

Er, there.

27: I'm kind of baffled by this description, because you seem to be dividing "folk" up differently than I do, but I can't read your dividing lines. What's weird is that, like you, I'm coming at this very much from an "Anthology" POV. So to me, "less popular" folk - especially compared to PP&M - is the old, good stuff, and the newer stuff that captures the same Weird Old America flavor. But you seem to be using "less popular" to mean... cheesy coffeehouse stuff? Like, it's less popular because it's less good?

Reviewing my iTunes Library, I see that most of my "Folk" stuff is female, of the Gillian Welch/Iris Dement vein. Maybe I subconsciously have the same prejudice, and so I don't own many male "folk singers." I certainly like Jackson Frank, and am happy to have his stuff now (thanks, Jesus!).

Ogged, do you know much about Chris Whitley? After Living With the Law (in 1991), he veered wildly between noisy rock and raw, Delta-ish stuff. One of my absolute favorites. If you liked Living with the Law at all (even if you thought it was too polished, or pseudo-atmospheric), you might want to try some of his other stuff.

cheesy coffeehouse stuff?

Yeah.

More cheesy than Peter Paul and Mary? I'm not following.

I've found Nick Drake revival of recent years to be utterly inexplicable. I remember being given a copy of the Hannibal boxed set as a gift some time around 1990 (evidently because Richard Thompson on it, so it seemed like the sort of thing I'd like.) It provided much hilarity for me and my friends until we finally tired of mocking him and his death and smashed the records. Wish I had kept the thing, actually; probably could sell it now if I had. An even worse decision, in retrospect, than not selling the old Fountains of Wayne cds I was given when their popularity peaked a couple of years ago. Now those things will be sitting on the shelf forever.

Thanks for the reminder about Chris Whitley, JRoth. I did quite like him when he first came out and had totally forgotten about him. And I confess I'm a sucker for anything Daniel Lanois produces, so the pseudo-atmospherics are ok by me.

Nick Drake revival of recent years to be utterly inexplicable

Dude, dude, dude, the Pink Moon album is god's own music.

Now that I've actually listened to "Yellow Walls", it isn't at all what I expected, it doesn't sound like either Shindell or Buckley or Cohen or Drake, it doesn't sound like any "pop-folk overemoters" that I'm aware of.

It sounds more like an ancestor of the "mannered indie-rock overemoter", Colin Meloy or Conor Oberst or Jeff Mangum.

Great song, too.

Glad to see everyone talking up Cohen, who's one of my absolute favorites. His Songs of Love and War is one of my absolute favorite albums: it's the perfect blend of Cohen, because his voice has gone gravelly but he's yet to embrace the synth. New Skin for the Old Ceremony comes in a close second, followed by the criminally underrated Death of a Ladies Man. (I mean, the Wall of Sound behind "Don't Go Home With Your Hard-On"? Brilliant.)

I'm surprised that no one's mentioned John Prine. "Illegal Smile" [.mp3] is one of the best anti-war songs, and has the virtue of not being embarrassingly cloy.

Chris Whitley is dead? Damn.

Dude, dude, dude, the Pink Moon album is god's own music.

Meh. Maudlin folky junk. The man had no rebop.

Sometimes I'm a little bummed that Chris never got back together with Lanois - I understand why he didn't (he felt - to varying degrees on different days - as if Lanois had created his Sound too much, and Whitley wanted to make his own sounds), but shit that was a good album.

Whitley in the (vaguely) Lanois vein:
Perfect Day (covers)
Dirt Floor
Weed
War Crime Blues
Live at Martyrs

Whitley being loud and/or electronic:
Din of Ecstasy
Terra Incognita
Rocket House

There's actually nothing he ever did (he died a couple years back) that I don't like. Hell, if you want, I could burn you a sampler.

You are beyond help, JL, but you seem content there.

66: I gotta type faster.

Thanks, JRoth, but all his stuff seems to be on Rhapsody and I'm listening to Dirt Floor right now.

I'll leave the JL-slagging to Ogged (maudlin folky junk, feh). Rufus Wainwright fans should check out Sondre Lerche if they haven't already. And it seems that John Fahey should make an appearance somewhere in this thread.

I've been thinking about the 60s folk music now, and intrigued by it for the first time, as it was sort of my business to make fun of my parents for having all these JoanBaez and Tom Rush and Joni Mitchell albums. Now that I'm taking it seriously, it seems like the records by male singers of that time have aged a lot better than the records by female singers - in terms of not sounding dated and odd to a 24-year-old, that is. I never understood why Joan Baez went in and out of that really high swooping bird-like voice, and now it seems like Sandy Denny did that all the time as well. That doesn't sound natural to me, it's hard to enjoy.

Richard and Linda Thompson rule, and so does Richard alone.

71: That's right, I was pleased to see that.

Do you know about Jim White? Also on Rhapsody. Very atmospheric/Lanois-tinged. But much, much weirder. Try "Wrong-Eyed Jesus" first - it's all good, but pop elements entered after the 1st album, and may deceive.

I was going to say something about Prine, but it hardly seems fair to talk about him in the same thread with coffeehouse folkies. I mean, of course they're not that good. Who is?

I like Prine's liner notes to Iris Dement's 1st album, where he relates hearing her demo while frying up some pork chops, and when a tear drops into the skillet, he says the fat sizzled at him as if to say "I'll give you something to cry about." Eloquent and absurd.

Also, what about John Gorka and Dan whats-his-face, with the super-Dylan-ey voice?

super-Dylan-ey voice?

Dan Bern, the least earnest folk singer of all time. He's awesome.

Thanks for the hint, I'd never heard of John Gorka, I'll go look at him.

Also, I've never looked into Jim White, because I get him confused with Joe Henry, Jack Logan, and probably some other guy with a really generic name. Better to stay out of that whole hornet's nest.

73: I never have liked and I don't think ever will like Baez.

Can some music historians help me here? It seems to me that soprano voices were the norm for women in music for centuries, but now they sound utterly painful to modern ears. Is this just an artifact of electronic recording (like how pre-Bing Crosby tenors sound ridiculous to our ears, because they had to sing like that to make audible recordings)?

Ah yes, what I mean by "high sweeping bird-like voice" can better be described as "soprano". It sounds ridiculous. No women folk singers (that I'm aware of) sing like that anymore. Yet...if Dar Williams had been born 30 years earlier she would have done so, because everyone did. Right?

Apparently everyone here is ten times folkier than me. It's Grumpy Old Man Music no more.

Jim White is one of the most unusual musicians going today, IMO. A British (?) filmmaker heard his first album and called him up to ask him to guide/narrate a tour of the weird, gothic South described on the album. I haven't seen the film, but it's supposed to be amazing. Also, dig the crazy, rambling interview conducted by David Byrne. It's a bit long, but kind of fun.

Last, go here and click on the weird video from the latest album. Song is "If Jesus Drove a Motorhome."

SORRY JOHN

"FOLKY" NO LONGER MEANS "GRIZZLED"

IT'S A STATE OF MIND ANYONE CAN ACHIEVE
IN A FEW SIMPLE STEPS`

The quavery, breathy operatic soprano is what drives me up the wall. I always think of Margaret Dumont in "A Night at the Opera", but I run across that style in serious music too.

Hmm. Something odd with that interview link. Here.

Thanks, I'll look at it later.

weird, gothic South

What do you think of...um....that old guy...Johnny Dowd?

78: Dar Williams is an interesting one for the earnest/self-serious discussion. One of my friends brilliantly described her music as "too much Girl Scout singalong." Not in the sense of simplistic rounds, but in the sense of Relax, it's just your emotions. But she can be pretty funny and, possibly, silly. I haven't risked buying an entire album - I'd rather leave her in the category of "I've liked most of what I've heard."

Apparently I can't link that interview, but it's on the main Jim White page linked in 80.

Johnny Dowd not ringing any bells.

All of my musical connections are useless to me. I really don't like Meloy's quavery voice, or anyone's, so my Decemberists connection is wasted. I also don't really like old-timey music either, so my Foghorn Leghorn in New Guinea CD goes unplayed. I sorta like the Tin Hat trio and Three Leg Torso.

Same with politics. I used to be well-connected in rightwing and pariah circles, just not with anyone potentially successful.

What, I wander into a music discussion thread and say, "that stuff sux" and no one is grateful? You can keep your fey little Nick Drake records--the Gore Gore Girls have a new cd coming out. Kick ass. Although, one of the two mp3s they have up, um, isn't much good.

"high sweeping bird-like voice"

Oh man, I hate that. Geddy Lee sounds less ridiculous. Early Joni Mitchell is like fingernails on a blackboard.

That Jim White song reminded me of Johnny Dowd, actually, although somewhat smoother and less exaggerated. I'd never heard anything by Jim White, and you'd never heard anything by Johnny Dowd. But now that I look into Dowd again for the first time in a while, it seems that those two fellows collaborated on an album called "Hellwood" last year. Interesting.

All I have by him is a few random songs I downloaded from Napster five years ago.

Check out the clips here, including "Worried Mind", "Hell or High Water" and "On Shaky Ground We Stand".

77: JRoth, thanks for that formulation: soprano. I'd never quite figured out what I disliked.

85: Dar Williams is great. One doesn't have to like everything she does, obviously, but yeah, she's self-deprecatory often enough. Wry is good. If you wanted to risk an entire album, I'd suggest Mortal City. But of course your mileage may vary.

90: RealPlayer is screwing with me, but I did like the full mp3 on there. Thanks.

Do people here have the feeling that Dylan is full of himself? My feeling is that (during his best years) was perpetually hostile, disgruntled, or disappointed. The way a guy should be.

Ah, Johnny Dowd. "No Woman's Flesh But Hers" deserves a listen, though the little clip at his website doesn't give the full sense of it. I've long thought Pictures from Life's Other Side to be a great album title, but I've never been able to get myself to actually buy the thing.

OK, Mortal City - but you'll pay if I dislike it.

I was always afraid of The Painfully Honest Room or whatever that one is called.

93: I like Dylan quite a bit, but it's never been clear to me why he's viewed as a genius while any number of other funny-voiced singers with (arguably) nonsensical lyrics are dismissed.

Anyway, there was a YouTube clip (I assume from Don't Look Back) where he's mocking a Time interviewer, and comes off as the biggest prick on earth, largely because he can't actually sustain his critique. He's 22 or 24, and he simply is too young and dumb to back up his "You don't know what it is, do you, Mr. Jones" attitude.

Part of me thinks that his entire career has been an in-joke, with him as the only one in on it.

Okay, the first two songs I played from "Drill A Hole In Whatever" were both ones that I've heard a dozen times on the local NPR station, and liked, but never knew who they were by. I'm going to buy that album.

95: If you don't like Mortal City, I cannot accept responsibility. I have only one other Dar Williams, The Green World, which I never listen to for whatever reason.

97: W00t! He's also a LOT of fun live - I saw him a few years back at Club Cafe in the South Side, and his little band just has a hell of a lot of fun (re)producing this wierd music.

96: I once watched a (PBS, no doubt) documentary on Joni Mitchell in which she explained that Dylan's genius, in her view, was in the writing of lyrics that tell a developing story. Narrative. Apparently something not particularly done prior. And that she'd adopted the same approach. The interview/documentary illustrated this with various Dylan and Joni Mitchell clips, and I saw the point.

I'm afraid I can't remember the documentary, nor the particular Dylan cited.

77: I think that the general shift has to do with trained vs. untrained voices. Lack of training (of the kind involved in art music/opera/musical theater) is inherent to folk and folk-inspired music, and the lower tessitura is just more natural for most people. That fails to account, of course, for birdlike folkie sopranos, but that kind of singing is largely a thing of the past.

72 -- Thanks. I was just thinking, Why don't I say "John Fahey" and see if anybody responds. "Poor Boy A Long Ways From Home" has a lot in commong with "Prodigal Son". Though obviously Mick and Keith are together not half the musician Fahey is, nor Fahey half the performer they are. (Obligatory: "Prodigal Son" is not a Stones song, it is by the Reverend Robert Wilkins. The Stones' cover is much better known and pretty similar in sound to Wilkins' original.)

Speaking of contemporary folkies, does anyone here listen to Gordon Bok?

I go back and forth between loving his music, and getting frustrated at his new england emotional reticence.

But I grew up hearing Peter Kagen and the Wind as a bedtime story/song, so I'm prejudiced.

80: It is a good film containing great music, and with some weird racial stuff in it. We discussed it some at AWB's blog last year, I will try and dig up a link.

Gordan Bok?

Here is the cached page. AWB switched over to Wordpress and her Blogger archives seem to have gone away.

100: One can only presume that the developing story Joni was thinking of was something like:

The cloak and dagger dangles
Madams light the candles
In ceremonies of the horsemen
Even the pawn must hold a grudge
Statues made of match sticks
Crumble into one another

Yeah, you couldn't get that horrible Dumont sound naturally.

No women folk singers (that I'm aware of) sing like that anymore

Except those who are going for a british folk revival sound, like Meg Baird of Espers and solo fame. (She also has a trio album with Helena Espvall and Sharron Krauss—lots of birdlike singing!)

Johnny Dowd is in the movie Jim White made (as are Handsome Family and maybe 16 Horsepower), and he actually made an album with White as Hellwood (it's called Chainsaw of Life) which I thought mostly sucked except for the lead track, "Thank You Lord".

Now that I think of it, whoever the dude singer in Espers is sounds kind of like Bert Jansch.

Espers are really good! People should pick up their ep The Weed Tree.

The Handsome Family was one of my favorite things about that movie. I keep meaning to listen to more of their music but have not gotten around to it yet. (This huge Robyn Hitchcock mania sort of hit me over the head the spring and has colonized most of my consciousness that would be available for finding out about music.)

106: Thanks, although now I'll have that thought in mind before I start watching. Oh well.

I think that what Mitchell meant was that the old folk songs were static, reiterated elaborations or variations on a type situation, whereas with Dylan, Stanza One didn't give you much clue as to what Stanza Two would be.

The contrast in this videos is painful to hear.

Why does everyone start cheering when Dylan starts singing? Does Willie Nelson get no love?

Gordan Bok?

Gordon Bok not to be confused with Gordondon Wainwright

("this song has a prop. this was lifted/removed from Tower records...its my own section..so hard to see...unfortunately they've mispelled my name LOUDEN..that's tame.. I was playing in this club in NY and in the paper...they said appearing..May 8th... Gordondon Wainwright 111...that's not a misspelling...that's just a different name..it's a fine celtic name....anyway...)

Espers covering Nico's "Afraid". Fern Knight (also good! formerly a member of Alec Redfearn's band The Eyesores) doing something live with members of Espers. Espers live.

Actually that live link for the espers isn't that great.

Willie is clearly the better singer -- and what hair!

There's a great Gillian Welch version of Pancho and Lefty. Willie does a fine job in that one. Dylan is his usual adenoidal sack o' shit.

Jesus, before he became famous (ca. 1956) Willie was a radio announcer and singer in Vancouver Washington.

Willie in the 'couv? I had no idea.

The thread of thought that starts with "Gillian Welch" ends up eventually here; but don't ask how because I will not be able to answer.

I don't think Dumont sang in N@tO. That was Kitty Carlisle as the ingenue singer. Can't call her operatic. Just someone acting that way.

There's a great Gillian Welch version of Pancho and Lefty

I've always been partial to the Townes Van Zandt version.

I particularly like his wry humor on the very freudian lines

"Pancho was a bandit boys / His horse was fast as polished steel / Wore his gun outside his pants / For all the honest world to feel."

I've never been quite sure how much that song is serious, and how much it's intentional humor/parody (that line makes me think of the scene from Red River which is included in The Celluloid Closet ) but, it's clearly a great song and he sings it well.

Can't be sure which movie, but it was Dumont I'm pretty sure.

Contra the disparagement of breathy soprano, those who haven't should check out Loreena McKennitt.

Something called The Book of Secrets in particular. She has a celtic lilt. So shoot her, I dare you. If you can't smile ...

Parsimon, you are so cheesy.

Cheese didn't stop you from propositioning me. Of course, that could have been the cancer talking.

ogged, so are you.

Your outlandish claim is going to require a link, SB.

Is it not my prerogative to make shit up? I believe it is.

ogged, so are you.

Nuh uh.

The fact remains: I am cheesy ("nice", I think you called it) and at some point in the past you were my willing love monkey.

There's a big difference between nice, which is giving a hand up to the handicapped old man that you just tripped for a laugh, and cheesy, which is Loreena McKennitt and Peter Gabriel, which is Parsimon.

It might have been "wholesome". My hoohole magic isn't working.

All Standpipe's claims are a ruse, whose margin fades for ever and for ever when I move.

135: For what it's worth, musically speaking, Jeff Beck's last three albums (cd's, whatever) should, if you have any sense at all, blow your head wide open. No cheese.

blow your head wide open

Cheesy.

Racist.

Anti-semite.

Nadia.

Mountebank.

Rapscallion.

And if you diss Jeff Beck, I will have your head.

Huh, women really do go for bad boys.

Ahem.

146: I don't know what that's a reference to.

As far as Jeff Beck's latest stuff goes, I consider it fucking brilliant.

Let's see: "Space for the Papa"

Look, I'm on dial-up, so I can't provide you with a link. I like guitar, and I'm probably old stylee about that.

Jeff Beck is fine. Not exactly my cup of tea, but clearly very good.

mmm. Those who speak of their cups of tea are full of cheese, babe. Admit it, get over it, enjoy.

Fuck it late to this thread. Ogged the first 4 Drake albums are all you need, unless you want to hear his high school stuff.

I like Johnny Dowd. Ill just go thru my hd and see what is interesting. I mean, I am listening to a lot of Ralph McTell now, but I don't know if I would recommend him.

Bruce Cockburn, Robbie Basho, Davy Graham, Dory Previn, Judee Sill, Jimmie Spheeris. Nah

I don't want to do this.

Grant McLennon died recently. I love the solo albums

Rufus Wainwright doing Leonard Cohen's "Everybody Knows". Terrific. Dylan-at-Budokan-level terrific.

Also: Dan Reeder, "Clean Elvis". The future looks like shit: "When I say Vietnam, it sounds just like Coca-Cola." I think y'all will like this one.

Nice find, Ogged.

Love that Wainwright cover.

That was pretty goofy. The thing about "Everybody Knows" is that the whole song is about sexual jealousy, and the way that it makes the whole world feel wrong. The earlier versus are a feint before the real complaint emerges in the last verse. Is it intentional? Did Cohen consciously write the song with that in mind, or did it just emerge?

Fuck Fuck Fuck. Got distracted by this thread and missed the Sundance special on the Ballet Russe.
Archival footage. Fuck.

I blame ogged, and b, b because I had to google up Faludi.

Emerson, while I was preparing for two hours of ecstasy I noticed your guy Satie did 8 days in jail for "cultural anarchy" for the score to "Parade". Parade had Picasso's first sets and costumes, some in cardboard and the dancers couldn't move. Satie was pissed when Jean Cocteau (during weekends off from the front) added typewriters and milk bottles to his score.

Now there is a movie I would pay to see.

Hey, I can't help it that you didn't read Backlash when it came out.

Just to say, I am definitely going to looks up a bunch of the music that is mentioned in this thread that I haven't heard.

Continuing to think about folkies and singer/songwriters I find myself thinking of Ferron again. She's inconsistant, but she's written a number of songs that I absolutely love.

She is at her best writing about the experience of processing strong emotions. Many of her songs are about looking back at the way in which some experience or emotion can shape years of one's life.

(for example, I will look up the Yeats quote that she uses as the organizing theme for the album Shadows on a Dime).

I particularly like Testimony and Driver from two very different parts of her career.

I recommend being aware of her work. It's worth knowing about.

b because I had to google up Faludi.

Hey, I was the one who brought up Faludi, and I was reminded of her in part by parsimon's arguments.

Bob, I don't know why, but it's "Ballets Russes."

Bob's blaming me because he's sexist.

156:Hey, I can't help it that you didn't read Backlash when it came out.

Well, I always saw it as:"Hey, the Patriarchy struck back, and here's the data to prove it!" Duh.

I am also an economic reductionist, thinking that allowing women into the work force while forcing the middle and upper-middle to have two wage-earners to maintain a lifestyle, thereby creating conflicts within and between, covers more of the story.

And I read "The Total Woman". Does that count?

Yeah, I kinda think that the "you gals wanna work? Cool, lower wages for everyone" thing was on purpose, too. Fuckers.

153: Heard it live the first time he performed it in 2003 at the Cohen tribute concert in Brooklyn. It was excruciatingly cool.

All I caught was the final montage of the Ballets Russe thing, with Firebird all swelling while Nijinsky is waving this scarf-on-a-stick thing like an Olympic event. And then the credits, and I says Yvonne Craig? Batgirl in the Ballets Russe?

Patty Griffin keeps growing on me. Guy Clark. Saw Cat Power was on Austin City Limits, but turned her off after 5 minutes. Picked up Brandi Carlisle and Watermelon Slim and a bunch of Albert King.

Zweistein has such a rep, but it wasn't so bad at all.
I wonder if Ben would have to look that up. The Spring outakes. Coupla Prog (that's a group), Electric Sandwich, Pinguin, Highdelburg, Talix.

Fuck it there's just too much.

re: Jeff Beck -- he's the only one of the 60s guitar 'heros' still making consistently interesting work. Also, listening back to some of his 70s stuff -- something like "'Cause we've ended as lovers" -- it still sounds pretty astonishing now whereas when I hear Clapton or Page from the same period, I think, 'any one of a thousand pub guitarists can do that'.

re: the high bird like soprano -- it's ironic that lots of actual operatic sopranos don't sound anything like that. Joan Baez, or early Joni Mitchell == fingernails on a blackboard; Cecilia Bartoli (e.g. on her Opera Proibita album) == really not.

Clapton has not aged well. I really like the Bloomfield / Bishop "East-West" guitar duet (with Paul Butterfield). I have Jeff Beck with Jan Hammer where he does the talking guitar thing and I like that too.

Trivia: the competition for the Ballets Russes was the Royal Swedish Ballet. They do sound like the Washington Generals of ballet. Apparently the first centers of ballet were Paris, Copenhagen, St. Petersburg, and Stockholm in that order.