When noting these "facts" about what appeals or bothers voters, why is it so hard for pundits, and yes Maureen Down, I'm looking at you, to also say, "by the way, basing your vote for the presidency on a characteristic like this is about as good an idea as swimming with pirhanas while wearing a bathing suit made of raw steak."
I took 2 to be the subtext of Matthew's comments.
In my personal ironic punishment hell, Chris Matthews does nothing but listen to his own nasal voice in a large auditorium at loud decibles going on and on about meaningless stupidities, but! though the auditorium is filled with people, they cannot hear him; their ears are trained on some other speaker.
I share Atrios' disgust with this kind of thing. We did "beerworthy" and "authentic" last time, and the results have been catastrophic. Now we have to listen to people speculate about what kind of aircraft could land on Romney's shoulders. (Answer: none; they're not loadbearing.) Fuck a bunch of this bullshit.
In other news, it seems we've got the pundits we deserve, and the government they deserve.
All the world voters loves a lover an actor.
W/d's point makes me reflect on how obnoxiously elitist the Dowd schtick is. God how I loathe her.
Agggh. I thought I could exempt my own self from the rule that "gravitas"-mentioning = death, but I cannot.
stab! stab! stab!
I don't see how being pregnant is going to help him, SB.
He doesn't have gravidity, ben.
Matthews thinks Thompson was the star of the recent Old Spicy "Ahoy" commercial. Understandable mistake.
An Aqua Velva man! I think it's the scent of money and power that does it, myself. In any case, it works in the trophy wife department:
Maybe he'll be too busy trying to satisfy her to start any new wars.
IF HE HAD A BETTER SHAVE
HE COULD BE PREZ
In B's absence, I'll object to the "trophy wife" characterization, since I think his wife had a real Washington job before they got married.
This is the 21st century, trophy wives can have jobs. Besides, she was in PR, not sure that qualifies as "real".
I find your response sexist and offensive. Now I need to go lounge by the koi pond while my husband slaves for his paycheck in the government mines.
But seriously, I'm pretty sure a trophy wife can't have characteristics that would plausibly make her a suitable wife apart from her looks.
That's way too restrictive -- by your definition, only lazy slatternly uneducated humorless morons could qualify for the trophy wife position. We all know the talent pool is much wider than that.
23: I think that for each quarter-century between the elder and the trophy, one suitable characteristic is wiped out. So for a standard 50-25 relationship, a mere job doesn't do the trick. A good (eg, not PR) job would. For a 70-20 relationship, the trophy basically needs to be a rocket scientist to avoid the pigeon-holing.
The concept of trophy wife is embodied in the expectation of wife-as-attainment, and not in any particular characteristic of the wife herself. Any damn thing can be a trophy if you put it on the mantle.
male gaze.
I'm with text. Trophy wife is a concept which doesn't pay much attention to her attributes beyond youth and attractiveness.
put it on the mantle
Ok, then don't we need evidence that Thompson has done this? What I'm saying, folks, is that not every hot wife is a trophy wife.
28: Look at him, then look at her. Look at him, then look at her. Look at him, then look at her.
Ogged is just trying to soften up the commentariat so that when he introduces us to his 16 year old girlfriend we'll be impressed she's in AP History.
20: a real Washington job
Okay, it's not an oxymoron, quite... but it does make me want to ask "what kind of job, exactly"?
"Can you smell the English Leather on this guy" is made of awesome. That's a campaign slogan right there. Hell, if Thompson is smart he'll put two ads into heavy rotation right now: the first a remake of the original MANDOM ad, only featuring him, and the second a montage of white bimbos talking about how Obama is "packing" IYKWIMAITYD.
22: Actually, I spent the day dragging PK around shopping!!!!
Being a trophy wife rocks. In my defense, though, I *did* buy Mr. B. two really swanky shirts for father's day. One of them has a subtle embroidered pattern of two naked ladies (but it's art!), which the clerk felt she had to point out to me before she'd let me buy it. "Yes," I said. "That's precisely *why* I'm buying it."
30: I'm sure I did something that starts with L in an O.L. manner.
Saul Bellow's last trophy wife was a hott mathematician. As I understand, she played him even.
30 is awesome.
About his wife, wiki says,
Kehn (born January, 1967) is an attorney and a political media consultant at the Verner, Liipfert, Bernhard, and McPherson law firm in Washington, D.C. She had formerly worked for the Senate Republican Conference and the Republican National Committee.
The photo when Mrs. Thompson is directing her heat at Wolfowitz, of all people, looks trophy-wifish.
Apparently she's 40, though.
I get a leetle annoyed by the concept of trophy wives because there really isn't a similar thought process that happens when a woman is with a man who is seriously out of her league. That is, a trophy wife is taken as evidence of the man's wealth, personality, or sexual skillz, but a out-of-one's-league dude confers no such status on a woman, at least, not to other women in the way TW's signify to other men.
37: there really isn't a similar thought process that happens when a woman is with a man who is seriously out of her league
"Boy-toy"?
23
I think you are wrong, attractive young women are common, attractive young women with substantial personal achievements are rarer, hence make better trophies.
That is, a trophy wife is taken as evidence of the man's wealth, personality, or sexual skillz, but a out-of-one's-league dude confers no such status on a woman, at least, not to other women in the way TW's signify to other men.
I thought it sent the signal "She must be really good in bed or else he would be with a hot babe".
36: Some 40 year old women are attractive, John.
37: Whaaaa? Ashton K, anyone?
The sad thing about 39 is that JBS has shown himself incapable of irony.
41: Does he do Demi credit? I thought it just did him credit.
I think he does; remember the thread with the pic of Demi, Ashton, and Bruce?
Of course the guys all thought that was about how cool Bruce is, but as usual they're wrong.
. That is, a trophy wife is taken as evidence of the man's wealth, personality, or sexual skillz,
Is that a joke. It's wealth or power. And see B in 41 about Trophy Husbands.
44: Maybe it's because it hadn't occurred to me to think of Demi as being therefore, obviously so incredibly cool and funny and smart and sexxay that Ashton sleeps with her.
43: He's generally thought of as Demi's kept man, so he fits with the trophy concept.
You're wrong that the trophy-other does the people involved "credit," I think. Mostly it's seen as evidence that someone is so far past it that they have to buy somebody's pretense of affection.
46: as opposed to how you think of Fred Thompson?
45 gets it right. I do not look at a Fred Thompson-style relationship and think "he must have sexual skillz". I think "he must have money". That's it.
48: Who can help it, with that Aqua Velva smile?
Obviously, this whole discussion is c/o my anxious temperament. After the wind pushes all this past, remind me not to date hot guys anymore.
This is an interesting split. The women seem to think that having a trophy is supposed to be good, and the guys all think it's bad. It's bad! I'm objective!
They still make Aqua Velva? I remember that from reading early-70s Erma Bombeck columns in which it was worn by the middle-aged man who thinks he's still hip. Anyone my age who hasn't read a lot of Erma Bombeck columns probably has no idea what it is. Chris Matthews must be older than he looks if he thinks that's a compliment.
If the massive female support for Hillary really gets her the nomination, we have to hope for a Republican who inspires instant revulsion among both liberal and conservative women. Thompson could fit the bill.
Chris Matthews must be older than he looks if he thinks that's a compliment.
Chris Matthews is 61. Fred Thompson is 64.
23
This 1989 Fortune cover story is more evidence that you are wrong. Trophy wives are expected to be more than just a pretty face.
Chris Matthews is 61
I guess when your job is to wear makeup and smile on TV, the ravages of age are hardly apparent. In pictures like this and this he is hardly recognizable. Neither his hair nor his skin have that healthy orange glow I associate with him.
54: it can be hard to tell, since Fred Thompson acts 80 and Chris Matthews acts 12.
Oh my.
Thompson's wife is too short for him, her neckline is too low for First Lady material, she looks sorta slutty, her beauty is a function of her eyebrow work, she is dressed like a trophy wife, so they both have it all wrong for a presidential candidacy, um, have I offended as many people as possible yet?
Seriously, though, a partner who seems hotter than the principal isn't a trophy unless he or she is paraded as such.
60: I guess I'd say in this case that the wife is overdressed compared to Thompson's dress. (I honestly don't know about these things, though; perhaps her dress and hairstyle seem perfectly appropriate.)
More generally, and kind of winging it here, introducing someone as, say, "My wife [husband]" rather than by name, adding, "my wife," might be a way to present the spouse as an accoutrement.
Mrs. Dennis Kucinich is way hotter.
I'd call trophy wife on him, too, but it just seems so unlikely. What exactly would she be a trophy for?
People seem to be confused on the whole trophy wife concept. Hot and young in exchange for your money and power, that's all it's about. All else is optional. The key is that there needs to be an *exchange*. She shouldn't be too wealthy or powerful herself, but that's not because the trophy wife concept requires her to be stupid or inferior. It's because if she's as rich and powerful as the man she doesn't need his money, hence no exchange.
Ashton Kutcher is thus not a trophy or a boy-toy, he's a wealthy star himself and has plenty of other options. He just likes Demi.
There aren't as many male trophies because women are less likely to see being with a young, beautiful man as the ultimate reward for a successful life.
My dear bitch, 40 is too old to be a trophy wife. It says so in the manual. She just looks young.
The quality trophy wives gravitate toward hedge fund managers, not politicians.
My first thought on seeing a shot of Thompson at a fund-raiser or something last week - as candid a photo as a pre-campaign can allow for, I imagine - was, "Shit that guy is old." Playing at being NYC's grandad on television is one thing when the network foots the bill for makeup, clothes and hair. In real life he looks like absolute hell.
He does have cancer, you know. It's in remission, but still.
I view the draft Fred thing as a direct index of Republican desparation.
Great, now I'm an ageist and an asshole.
Apo, I maintain that those are society ladies, not trophy wives.
Kehn (born January, 1967) is an attorney and a political media consultant at the Verner, Liipfert, Bernhard, and McPherson law firm in Washington, D.C. She had formerly worked for the Senate Republican Conference and the Republican National Committee.
So maybe a half-step up from the pharmaceutical sales rep/real estate agent/mid-market weather reporter demographic. If there were a ranch where guys like Thompson went to smoke cigars and hunt trophy wives and shoot each other in the face, that's pretty much what they'd stock it with.
Kehn has been pushing Fred hard to run for President. She sees a chance to get herself in on a little of that first lady action. See, that's an exchange.
66, 70: What I find bothersome about that article is that the women seem to be perfectly well accomplished, but it's just a given that, once married to some rich dude, they'll become society ladies - like the Ivy League degree retroactively becomes an MRS. Dammit, ladies, don't you have professional fantasies you can use your husband's wealth to achieve? Hell, play Marty Peretz and run a great political magazine into the ground - don't just run the goddam Snowflake Ball!
i cannot imagine having a 'professional fantasy'
well, thats kinda a vague term. i'm sure someone will think of a meaning whihc would apply to me.
He does have cancer, you know.
He looks like it's already killed him. (I can say things like that.)
Isn't there a contrast between Mrs. Clinton, who's never called that, and Mrs. Thompson?
Sorry if Emerson's trying to say something, but I'll just respond humorouslessly:
Your first wife can't be a trophy wife (unless you marry late, but even then not really).
Your trophy wife should really be much younger, or stupendously hott. Otherwise, you've just succeeded in marrying someone attractive but otherwise appropriate.
74: What do you do, yoyo? You know, an academic could write a book or endow her own chair. A lawyer could do all pro bono work or act as a rogue tort lawyer, fucking with corporations. Near as I can tell, those two fields cover about 95% of the Unfoggedtariat. For the odd office worker, there's always starting your own faceless corporation, full of cube farms.
And there's nothing you'd like to do in law that you find yourself unable to do, but probably could if your spouse's income was in the 10 figures?
JRoth doesn't spend much time with lawyers.
The question with Mrs. Thompson is whether she sufficiently younger at 40. She also has certain trophy-wife mannerisms.
My point was, however, that Mrs. Clinton's accomplishments and talents are great enough that the question could not come up even if she were a second wife and 20 years younger.
81: Mostly just here.
Actually, tho, people I've known who've gotten into law have tended to do it with Good Works in mind, so you could see where I might get the idea that it's a possible professional fantasy.
Of course, there's always the professional fantasy of telling of your boss, but that's not really something that holds you for more than a couple years.
off, dammit, telling off your boss.
Telling of your boss is no fantasy, and only holds you for a couple years if you worked for someone really interesting.
my professional fantasy is to make enough money to live modestly and retire by the age of 50.
I bet LB could fuck shit up if she were someone's trophy wife (no offense to Buck, of course).
83: plenty of people get into law with the idea of doing good works, but it rarely lasts long.
I bet LB could fuck shit up if she were someone's trophy wife (no offense to Buck, of course).
Oh man. That's my professional fantasy, to watch that happen.
i'm on the law side.
Henceforth to be called the distaff side. Philosophers may take their choice of "spear side" and "datstaff side".
i got a philosophy major in college, do i stil get a choice?
No, that just puts you with washerdreyer in the "philosopher-turned-lawyer" category.
Shhh, you'll jinx me (and I think yoyo as well) for the bar exam.
Sorry. "Philosopher-turned-potential-lawyer."
90: Well, there you go. Your professional fantasy should be to create a new school of philosophy. Easy.
Anyone else?
37: a trophy wife is taken as evidence of the man's wealth, personality, or sexual skillz...
It is? I thought seeking and getting a trophy wife was a sign of a man's age and/or shallowness.
rogue tort lawyer
What's a rogue tort?
[/end cordelia]
"What's a rogue tort?"
Those things that end open in the office kitchen when you are trying to diet.
Oh, I have a rich professional fantasy life. It used to just involve jobs that I was grossly unqualified for; now it's jobs I arguably am qualified for but don't exist. Latest: investigator for President Obama or Edwards' comission or DOJ task force researching detainee abuse, with an office in a gov't building that shuts off the lights at 7 on weekdays, is closed weekends, and doesn't let you bring the files home. Or perhaps a job with one of Chicago's wide assortments of human rights NGOs. Or maybe simply working on my current pro bono case full time & with sane hours. ha, ha, ha.
I have to say that you people manage to cheer me up a lot--sometimes for the strangest reasons. I was facing terrible drudgery and utterly depressed about it and feeling that it was insurmountable, and then I read here about the equally unpleasant tasks everyone else has to face. And somehow, knowing that other people faced these things with wit and humor made it better and made me feel capable of tackling those tasks.
I acknowledge that that's excessively earnest.
Professional fantasies deserve their own thread. I think you really can live them out if you're focused and determined to achieve on them, there's a lot of opportunity around even if you don't make it in the ultra-competitive race to be a trophy wife.
I realized after a while that most of my Professional Fantasies were actually leisure fantasies or sex fantasies in disguise. Nice to know your priorities.
Yes, it does. It's especially absurd to view a trophy wife as evidence of sexual skills. I've always understood that the assumption is that the woman is exchanging a decent sex life with someone her own age for the power / money / glamour benefits of her much older husband.
Of course, she can always sleep with the pool boy. Having it all!
