Did you bike?

Impressive. I really wish I'd kept riding after my first year in Seattle. Dammit.

That has to be at least 25 miles.

It's more like thirty-five.

That's almost too far to drive.

You are such a wuss, O.

I was given the impression that ben could fly. His greatness has truly been overstated on these here bloggy thing.

I just biked to and from the caltrain station, dummy. But I live on a hill.

I just biked to and from the caltrain station, dummy. But I live on a hill.

You bastard.

You should redact the present comment and archive this thread. To 9, it's perfect.

The eternal dilemma...

drive

What is this strange idea of which you speak?

But do you have to ride uphill both ways?

Nah, that was only possible pre-1965.

That's almost too far to drive.

Totally right. Any commute > 30 min is a reason to change your life.

Wow. How long does it take you? How hot is it usually outside? Even at my very, very best in cool weather and living in a flat and bike-friendly place, I never averaged much over fifteen miles a day and never rode much more than twenty.

Here, to my shame, I haven't even broken out my bike this summer. It's been so hot, and almost everywhere I go is either very, very far or under three miles and I just walk. And

16, meet 8.

Totally right. Any commute > 30 min is a reason to change your life.

If it involves sitting on a train or bus most of the way it can be a relaxing part of the day. You're right if it's >30 min of propelling yourself.

If it involves sitting on a train or bus most of the way it can be a relaxing part of the day.

Agreed. Reading on the train is great.

18: > 30 min of propelling yourself is a lot better than > 30 min of driving, though, assuming reasonable weather.

17: Nice to meet you, 8. You've reassured me that I am not dramatically inferior to w-lfs-n, and for that I'll always owe you.

Yeah, a long drive is the worst case. I have a short (and crowded, seatless) train ride and then a long (~ 1 mi) walk to work. I like the walk, but almost wish the train ride was long enough to allow for reading. A long drive just means staring at the same shit day after day and grinding your teeth listening to NPR.

for that I'll always owe you

Look lively -- you never know when I'm going to call in a favor.

"17: Nice to meet you, 8. You've reassured me that I am not dramatically inferior to w-lfs-n, and for that I'll always owe you."

New poll. w-lfs-n or Frowner - who is better?

I vote Frowner.

w-lfs-n or Frowner - who is better?

At what?

Frowning

I've been bicycling a lot recently too. I haven't exercised seriously for about 8 years, and it showed.

Every little town of more than 75 people around here has a tavern. That's essentially the reason for the town's existence. So I'm planning to go to every one within 15 miles to have a beer. The most I've done in a day so far is 20 miles and that was rough on me.

Biking's funny that way -- you can keep going despite being out of shape a lot longer than for most other kinds of exercise, which lets you hurt yourself worse when you're getting back into it. Running, I just hit a point where I have to stop. Biking, there's never that point.

Biking has a point like that LB, and it's really a lot less pleasant than runnings. At least that's true for me. But yeah, it's a lot harder to hit.

A long drive just means staring at the same shit day after day and grinding your teeth listening to NPR.

A lot of it depends on traffic conditions. I drive about an hour each way to work. It's long, but it's not hard, because most of the ride is a two-lane highway through the middle of nowhere with little to no traffic. It can be rather pleasant. I wish I had a shorter commute, of course, but the only places that would allow a decent trip for both me and the SO (we work in different cities) are too expensive for us without being all that attractive (the attractive parts are either much too expensive or not practical.) Biking to work would be great, but I think the 80+ mile round trip through the hills would be a bit much for me.

28: Oh, I don't know about that. What about saddle sores!?

29 is accurate. Though to tell the truth I have only hit that point once, and it was because I had injured my knee the previous fall and not given any consideration to that when I was planning my first ride of the season. Every other long ride I've done (distances of up to 120 miles), I've felt at the end of the ride like I could keep going though I didn't really want to.

Saddle damage can be unpleasant, admittedly. (Talk about body parts where numbness is undesirable!)

I walk/ran for close to two miles on Wednesday (alernating blocks). This is significant because a) I haven't exercised regularly for a few years and 2) I'm as heavy as I've ever been (crossing even my own self-deluding line from "chunky" to "fat"). I'd like to be able to run continuously for 3 miles by the end of the summer. Any advice from runners on selecting fat-guy running shoes, which I'll be doing tomorrow?

Check the Jack Rabbit shoe store in Union Square, seems to be the consensus.

Do keep in mind that I live in Minnesota, clownae.

Huh. Not much I kin do fer ye then. I could check whether there's any new don't-miss Jamaican eateries in Lansing, but Jamaican food is probably not what you are looking for right now.

Sigh.

I'm no help with the Minn. shoestore, but my getting back in shape advice for the running is to keep the run-walking unstructured. If you just go for the length of time it would take you to run the three miles, and run till you have to walk and then walk when you can run again, I find I progress faster with a program like that then with planning out run-a-block, walk-a-block.

I didn't know Lansing was in Minnesota. Or that Jamaican eateries sold running shoes. Am confused.

34: Vertical stripes can be very slimming.

If you're starting with short distances and can stay up on the front part of your foot the whole way, I suggest wearing light shoes. It takes a while for your feet and ankles to get used to running, but if you're building up to 3 miles slowly (which is the smart way to do it) they should have time to do so.

But this would go against what lots of other people would tell you, I'm just some crazy guy on the internet, etc.

34: I just started running this summer as well, and am not a light guy myself, so I went through some of this. I don't know that shoe selection is going to be different for heavier people then for lighter people. What I found made a lot of difference was running form. You wan to get that right. When I started I tended to over stride and bashed the hell out of my shins. Working on form helped a lot.

I don't know where in MN you live, but if you can find a store that specializes in running that might be a good idea. I assume Minn/St. Paul has some and Fargo has one if your on that side of the state.

40: But Michigan is roughly the same state as Minnesota, no? And they don't sell running shoes; hence the final clause of my 37.

Chops: You should have Frowner ride along side you on a bike, exhorting you, Rocky-style.

39: I need the visible goal--OK, I'm running to there.

42: Yep, gonna go slow. I'm still trying to figure out my stride--my natural running gait seems to push me up more in the air than is necessary, both from an impact perspective and from an energy-expendiure per foot travelled perspective.

CJB--the sites I've been looking at say that heavier folks should get shoes with extra cushion to cut down on wear-and-tear in the knees. I'm going to a running store to pcik these suckers out.

39: That's called fartlek, BTW. It was the Swedes' secret weapon against the Finns.

I'm 38 miles from home, and I have to get up at 5:30 to keep my driving commutes close to an hour each way. Trains impossible because of connections and being miles from the station out here: 2.5 hrs one way. I stopped being able to listen to NPR regularly about 10 years ago. There's college radio of several kinds which I listen to instead. I've an ipod now, and when I can find the time to set it up I'll have the catching–up–through–podcasts option.

If I started working downtown I would bike the ten miles or so for sure.

48: I think most basic running shoes probably have enough padding. It seems like you wouldn't really run into the padding issue until you got into more advanced shoes, but I could be wrong. I think getting the right arch support and size are probably more of an issue.

Chopper: yeah, the only thing special about fat-guy running shoes is to get lots of cushion so you don't wreck your feet and knees while your body is getting used to the whole idea of this mean thing you're trying to do to it. And if you don't have any experience running, it would be helpful to know what kind of gait you have, i.e., whether you overpronate. I would have to assume that overpronating with a lot of weight on top would be worse for your ankles than otherwise, so if you can correct for it from the start, you'll be ahead. If there's a running store where somebody can help you with this it would be the best thing.

Also, what LB said about run-walking. And there's no shame in this; many serious runners continue to do run/walking runs long after they've passed that 3-mile goal.

yeah, yeah, what Emerson said. Fartlek.

Didn't someone in one of these here threads mention Nike Free shoes? What was the report on those, I was kind of interested in trying them out. (I realize they wouldn't be right for Chopper, I'm talking about for me)

I used them, and I recommend. I also recommend them for Chopper, especially if he is starting out with short distances. I don't use them anymore because (a) they wore out, and (b) I decided to run in something with even less support. I bought my first pair from a man in a running store who thought my purchase was ill-advised. But no injuries.

I've read that mushy shoes with too much cushion don't plant firmly enough and make ankle injuries more likely. Grain of salt, definitely.

For whatever reason, weight being one possibility, I can't run any more. Losing weight first on a low impact machine and then starting to run again might be smart. Certainly if you find yourself getting injured much.

Come on, LB. Say it out loud. "Fartlek. Fartlek". Don't be such a priss.

Dude, I'm sitting in my office singing it to myself to the tune of 'Sunrise, Sunset'. Truly, an awesome word.

I need to get out on my bike more often. Stanley:

have you ridden any of the mountain bike trails at Wintergreen or Snowshoe? If so, do they have beginner trails?

59: from a bikey co-worker: the ski resorts are more for "free rides" (lift-assisted downhill rides). For a good beginner workout ride, he suggested some of the Geo. Washington Nat'l Forest trails, Walnut Creek in C-ville, Buttermilk Trail in Richmond, or Poor Farm in Ashland.

The good American word for that Swedish technique is "interval training." We don't need to murky up the language.

Losing weight first on a low impact machine and then starting to run again might be smart.

Like the elliptical trainer in my basement that I don't use, or the ones at the gym I pay for but don't go to? I'm just trying something new here, John. I've never been a runner.

the elliptical trainer in my basement that I don't use

Dude! (Try putting it somewhere with a view; of course you won't want to use it if it's in the basement.)

Thanks Stanley:

We've ridden Pocahontas Park some, but just havent branched out much.

49. It was the Swedes' secret weapon against the Finns.

The racist Swedes, or the non racist Swedes? Not that it makes any difference, because fartlek is probably some kind of war crime. Or should be.

55: text, what shoes are you wearing? I'd like something less supportive than the Frees.

Text just puts duct tape on his feet.

Moleskin. Made from real moles.

I run in puma h-streets these days, which they don't even make anymore, but you can find them on e-bay. Any running shoe from the 70s will do.

Duct tape, there's an idea.

Also, owing to the fact that there isn't really anything to wear down, those shoes last forever. I put a ridiculous (for me) amount of miles on a pair of h-streets I bought about two years ago, and they're still fine to run in. You can just throw them in the washing machine.

61: I don't see how taking an honest opportunity to insert "fart" into serious conversations counts as muddying up the language.

55: I hadn't considered the short-distance part of the equation, I guess that makes sense. But they seem like not the best shoe for an inexperienced runner who's moving a lot of weight.

While Emerson has a good point about the elliptical, the best exercise is always the one you're most likely to do. I know that for me, running outside would be WAY farther up that list than ellipticising in the basement.

I feel like such a loser running on a treadmill rather than outside. I just hate running on sidewalks, and the only time I could run in a park would be early morning or late evening, which I'm not going to do. (Stupid dog. I'd run in the park if the dog would run with me, but she interprets running as bad-sheep behavior, and alternates between tripping me and biting me.)

Well that seems like it would make a good, strenuous work-out.

But painful.

I don't understand 72 at all. Why can you only run in a park in the morning/evening, but can run on a treadmill or sidewalks at other times? I initially thought that must mean you're running on a treadmill at a gym near your office (or on sidewalks around your office), but then you brought in the dog factor and I got totally lost.

At lunch, I can run on a treadmill. (I could also run on sidewalks, but I hate that.) Before or after work, I could run in a park. I don't feel safe running in the nearby park by myself at night or in the early morning. I would with the dog, but she's uncooperative.

Presumably the gym is closer than a park. When she does go to the park, it's doggie time.

Or I could let LB speak for herself.

72, maybe you're just giving her too much lead? Put her on a choke chain, hold the leash directly above her neck, and correct, without stopping, if she starts paying attention to anything besides walking at your heel. Older dogs may vary, but in my experience this takes no more than 5 minutes to begin working.

I pay for two gyms I'm not going to right now. Go me.

Buck has the dog well trained. If LB even looks at another man.....

79: If I had more time and energy to train her, I'm sure it's doable, but I've already spent a lot of time working with her on stuff like that, and keeping her civilized when I'm walking rather than running is as far as I've gotten (I walk her with an extensible leash, which I keep mostly at 2-3 feet). She's a sheepdog, and has a lot of very strong herding behaviors - anything moving fast elicits Chase-Nip-Block.

Could yours be "The World's Silliest Dog" (TM) and not DeLong's?

I have considered contesting that title on her behalf. She's pretty goofy. And, of course, looks like some unspecified wild animal (hyena, jackal, whatever).