At Best Buy they actually enforce the single-line policy, which I think is nice, but a bit overboard when there are only four people in the line.
CVS on Connecticut in Woodley regularly forms the single line, curving into makeup. Amusing incidents from last night:
"Um this is the line..." "Oh, you don't mind if I cut, do you? I'm in a big hurry."
Also, guy repeatedly dropping box of condoms and looking around to see if anyone saw what he was buying. Yes, we all saw. Good for you, sir, I hope it's delightful.
Single lines rule. The CVS on G & Penn street is also populated by fascist line dividing cashiers (who also happen to be the slowest cashiers in history).
Yeah, the single line is always preferable. There's nothing more maddening than being stuck behind a nitwit in a multiline situation.
Also, guy repeatedly dropping box of condoms and looking around to see if anyone saw what he was buying
What was he, 16?
"Oh, you don't mind if I cut, do you? I'm in a big hurry."
Like many other little social things, that is annoying as hell. Queue properly, people, and if you skip the queue, may you burn in hell.
4 - Rfts once showed me a study someone had done in which it was demonstrated that any reason at all offered while attempting to cut in line vastly improved the odds of success. I think "Do you mind if I get in front of you, because I need to make these copies?", used in the queue in front of a Xerox machine, was the best.
"Do you mind if I cut in line in front of you? I'm attempting to subvert Whole Foods' Hegelian liberal-fascist totalitarian zeitgeist."
I'm much more "British" about queues, which Canadians always called lines just like Usans do, than my wife is. Except when driving, when our roles are reversed. In Chicago, "zippering", an easy understanding that one car from each lane, alternately, allows one to get around many long merge lanes, with no adverse impact on the speed of the person in front of whom you insert yourself. In central Ohio, that would be some sort of social crime, but screw them, I served my time there.
I don't know why we don't line up at the bus stop, but we don't, we just mill around - and it's a problem that creates some injustice if there are too many people there to fit on the next bus.
I try to contribute to the formation of a mental line, such that if I was the first person at the stop, I get on first, and if I was the sixth person at the stop, I get on sixth. I don't think anyone notices.
7: What was he, 16?
Oddly, no. Like 24 or so, collar popped. Ironic mustache.
Count me as another vote for first-come, first-served queueing. If I remember my queueing theory correctly, under certain simplifying assumptions, a first-come, first-served (FCFS) in a multiple server environment reliably delivers the shortest mean waiting time (W). Interestingly, IIRC, if you want to minimize L, the number of people in the queue, you adopt the shortest-processing time (SPT) rule. In the Wholefoods environment, this would be tantamount to telling all the coupon redeemers and check writers to wait until everyone else has been served.
Also, the "You don't mind if I cut, do you? I'm in a big hurry" phenomenon has a formal name: EDD, or "earliest due date". Naturally, it screws up both W and L. Bastards
Canadians call lines "line ups." I have no idea why but I think it's because the winters freeze their brains.
The psychology of the line physically moving faster is also a balm of the single line.
I thought that people in New York would stop saying "on line" when they mean "in line", now that "on line" means "on the Internet", but NO! They're still doing it!!
"on line" means "on the Internet"
This veers sharply from the path of Truth. "online" means "on the Internet"; "on line" does not.
I submit that when spoken aloud the two phrases resemble each other most strongly.
One problem is that a lot of physical spaces can't easily accommodate one long line. Design failure.
Banks solved this problem about 140 years ago with the innovative "walk one way, then walk the other" style of line. Likewise movie theaters and amusement parks. These stores are just under so much pressure from WalMart that they can't risk investing so much money in the infrastructure for Boustrophedon-style lines.
I shouldn't have said "Canadians." My parents are from the Maritimes, and my family has Pre-Revolutionary New England roots. Probably our speech patterns are more like New England than standard Ontario practice in many ways. I pronounce ant and aunt the same way, have a "k" sound in schedule, either like a voiced version of ether, and many other differences from what some people around me in Ontario used to say, I know.
We said "lines."
Another reason to love the world: someone's done formal work on queue theory. Not to be confused with Wolfon's AOS.
At the "self checkout" section of my local supermarket-- which is single-line-- some old guy was stuck doing the hard work of yelling at two intimidating lesbians who had cut in line. They yelled back, so things got sort of ugly, and I've regretted not thanking him for shouldering the burden of enforcing our beloved norms.
I think Milgram did some experiments on line-cutting that suggested that the person directly behind the point of cutting is by far the most likely to object, with a steep drop-off of probabilities after that.
Finally, I was recently in line for the Art Institute of Chicago on a day when the line spilled out down the steps in front of the building. Some woman in a half-scooter/half-wheelchair contraption came up the ramp and cut in front of me, accompanied by her husband, who was on foot. "You don't mind if I..." she said, but clearly she'd already decided that she was getting into the line. Normally I'm totally live-and-let-live with this sort of thing, but since I was in a hurry I briefly contemplated suggesting that she wait next to the line while her husband waited in the appropriate spot. Not worth the trouble, but I hate when people leverage awkwardness like that.
21: Which is why the article linked in the original post deals extensively on the design issues involved in creating the Manhattan Whole Foods store in question. It also described how Trader Joes has tried to copy the one line system, but with fewer registers and without the necessary space to accomodate the queue, it's pretty much a nightmare.
Why do you hate the disabled so, FL?
Our local supermarket has a single queue, feeding a line of tills. It also has a digital numbering system for the tills that announces which till is free for the person at the front of the queue. There are also usually security guards monitoring the front of the queue to prevent fuckwits jumping it.
28: Damn. That sounds like the kind of place Jonah Goldberg would LOVE to shop.
the customers all try to form a single line, knowing its the best way to hedge their bets against getting stuck with whoever is the slow cashier that day or accidentally standing behind a person who decided to do some weird transaction that takes a half-hour
Wait, what? How does this help at all? If everyone's forming a single line, then aren't you all just piling behind one cashier, and thus putting all your eggs in one basket, cashier-speed-wise? And how does forming a single line protect you in any way from someone ahead of you who might slow the line down by doing some weird transaction?
30: The single line feeds to all the cashiers -- whichever cashier is free yells "Next" and the lead person on the line goes to that cashier.
30: Numerous cashiers. One line.
In a realm parallel to formal mathematical queueing theory (which is pretty central to telecommunications technology, BTW), a professor at Harvard Business School, David Maister, has published work on the psychological perceptions of of waiting time. Among the propositions he has empirically validated:
Occupied time feels shorter than unoccupied time.
People want to get started
Anxiety makes waits seem longer
Uncertain waits are longer than known, finite waits
Unexplained waits are longer than explained waits
Unfair waits are longer than equitable waits
The more valuable the service, the longer the customer will wait
Solo waits feel longer than group waits
The guys who design the queues at Walt Disney World--they've got science on their side.
Wait, what? How does this help at all? If everyone's forming a single line, then aren't you all just piling behind one cashier, and thus putting all your eggs in one basket, cashier-speed-wise?
No, you're lining up behind all the cashiers simultaneously, and the person at the front of the line goes to whichever cashier becomes free.
And how does forming a single line protect you in any way from someone ahead of you who might slow the line down by doing some weird transaction?
I hope the answer to this is now evident.
Stras, the idea is that there's a single line leading to a branching point. The person at the head of the line then goes to the next free cashier, assuring that you never make the mistake of getting behind someone who is trying to pay for their $25.99 organic Manchego with nickels in dimes.
some old guy was stuck doing the hard work of yelling at two intimidating lesbians who had cut in line.
I tend to be that guy. Some social norms should be enforced with the occasional beating.
Gwsift, abusive sexist homophobe.
Gswift? What about Labs, using "intimidating" as code for "African-American?"
re: 37
I agree. I am only that guy sometimes due to i) laziness, ii) cowardice.
Self checkout is okay. When something goes wrong, it takes a *long time* to get help. Try buying a coke and fail to put it in the bagging area, and the machien will yell at you.
Please, anybody with a tendency to yell "there's a queueue you know" or its local equivalent, feel free to move to Amsterdam and teach the locals some manners.
Bring a baseall bat.
41: And what are you supposed to do with the 20 pack of toilet paper? I've tried telling the computerized register that it won't fit in the damn bag, but it just won't listen.
What about Labs, using "intimidating" as code for "African-American?"
Heh. My dad will be 'that guy" to anyone. Cracks me up. The 6'3, 250 pound black guy who no one else will call on it gets the same "hey buddy, the end of the line is back there" (emphasized with a jerk of the thumb) that everyone else gets from him.
re: 42
In our local supermarket it tends to be the drunks trying to intimidate/bully/embarrass people into getting what they want.
25: Now this one, I'm afraid I don't get. If she's sitting on one of those little mobility scooters, why the hell should she be moved up the line? Someone who can't stay on their feet too long should be given priority, not someone who's on a portable chair.
Should've told her that she could wait longer than any of y'all.
Also, single lines rule. It was a sad day in Operations Management when we discussed a lot of the theory and math behind queuing, only to have the professor finish with "and you'll probably never get to apply this outside manufacturing because most stores are terrified of the psychological effect of large queues."
JAC, I already told you. Your new handle is "Meconium".
46: I think the deal is that the back of the line was on the stairs, and the ramp that she had to take to get up the stairs delivered her to the middle of the line. Bad design, and she probably could have managed to wait her turn somehow, but I can see why she did what she did.
Do those self-checkout machines get health care?
Queuing at the first McDonald's in Moscow.
If I remember my queueing theory correctly, under certain simplifying assumptions, a first-come, first-served (FCFS) in a multiple server environment reliably delivers the shortest mean waiting time (W).
very general assumptions IIRC. You pretty much have to introduce do-it-or-die deadlines or something in order to ever get a situation where multiple queues beat single queue.
Of course, any pub in the world which introduces a queueing system (and these do exist! among the insane) immediately forfeits my business forever, so the psychological angle matters too.
47: Yes John, but I would be a much less happy person if I ever bothered to listen to you.
48: That makes sense, now that I think about it. But that overreaction felt really good for a little bit.
49: Probably better than that of any of the workers. Less turnover, too.
Is there a separate line for each bartender, or do the bartenders all service a single line by calling out "Next!" or making a little numbered light above their heads turn on? Personally I favor having bar patrons take a number from a reel and having an electric sign behind the bar that says what number is currently being served.
31: Okay, sure, that I get. But at heavy-traffic times, your average Whole Foods isn't going to have the floor space to accommodate the single giant line over the multiple small lines, so of course they're going to want you to break up and go to individual cashiers. The people working in the store want you to do what's convenient for the people who work in the store, and I can't blame them. Suck it up and get in line, whiney.
53: No, the women at the bar are served their beverages in reverse order of hotness. The men are ignored.
54: Which is why the article spent a lot of time discussing the design of the store in Manhattan, and why this system fails when not properly designed for.
I don't know why it would take significantly more floor space to install a bank-style queue rather than several parallel queues separated by the dead zones between registers. It sounds like it could be more efficient to me...at least at a place like Trader Joe's, where the space taken up by each register is very small and therefore everyone waiting in line for a register is sort of standing in the open space anyway.
Apparently Disney now uses the bakery-take-a-number system, with approximate waiting times indicated, so that you can stroll around and be in line for many rides at the same time. I think that's a great idea.
In the early days of the Emeryville Trader Joe's there wasn't enough room to push a cart all the way past the registers and get to the door. They later moved the registers a little bit farther away from the wall.
Or maybe I'm misremembering this, and there was a different problem with the design of that store.
No, the women at the bar are served their beverages in reverse order of hotness. The men are ignored.
This is why I like to go to bars that only serve beer.
My local Whole Foods has traditional lines, but I do want to note that their general policy of ample cashiers is most welcome. It was something like 3 years of multiple trips/week before I ever saw the place look like the nearest regular supermarket does on every Sunday afternoon.
Actually, the worst local market is the one with a predominantly black clientele - woefully undercashiered, with ~15 people at every line on a Sunday, while a half-dozen registers sit empty. Really insidious. (And I'll note that most of the customers had carts literally overflowing with merch - there was no lack of revenue).
Which is why the article spent a lot of time discussing the design of the store in Manhattan, and why this system fails when not properly designed for.
And if Becks were in that store in Manhattan, she could use that system instead of whining about being unable to make life slightly more irritating for our nation's hard-working wage slaves.
JRoth doesn't care about black people.
62: Why did people keep going to the market with bad service? I take it by your comment there were other places available.
using "intimidating" as code for "African-American?"
Not only were they white, but they were significantly overweight and wearing tevas, my dear boy.
I don't know why it would take significantly more floor space to install a bank-style queue
Taking apart, redesigning, and reinstalling a line of cashier queues is not a trivial expense, especially when you take into account the number of customers lost in the meantime to inconvenience while the renovations take place. If you're going to design a store to have a single-line, bank-style queue, you've more or less got to do it while the store's being built; once you've got a set up for multiple lines, you can't have customers forming the single line on their own, because it takes up tons of floor space that's needed for other stuff (foot traffic, product displays, etc.).
67: More floor space, not more money or effort.
You're going to need a little more space because you need a clear space between the front of the queue and all of the cashiers -- with multiple lines you can cram all the way up to the front.
68: It takes more floor space to deal with a single line when the setup is for multiple lines; it takes more money and effort to convert multiple-line stores into single-line setups, which is why there aren't as many single-line stores to begin with. (I'm also not as sure that single-line doesn't in fact take up more floor space, but that I know less about.)
65: The next-closest market isn't that far away, but it's way too far to walk, and the bad market is near the nexus of a couple dozen bus routes.
Furthermore, the better market used to be The Food Gallery, and just as tony as its name suggested - $1.00 cukes when the other markets were $0.33. It was bought out by Giant Eagle, the main local chain, which also owns the bad market, but I suspect that many customers of the bad store still thought of the ex-Gallery as not being "their" store. Also, the bad market used to be about 2X the size of the better one, with more products targeting the African-American market (and fewer ones targeting yuppies and foreign grad students). The ex-Gallery is now a huge, beautiful store with a million cashiers and self-checkout. I haven't been in the bad store in years, so I don't know if the improved store has taken customers from there.
71: That make sense then. It sounded like there were several markets in the same area that were comparable, but that one had worse service.
I don't know about the single queue. It makes me feel like a herded animal.
74: No, because then I get to pick my version of hell. For some reason the possibility of applying a best guess when selecting a line takes away the moo factor.
It could also have something to do with starting my long-distance day trips at Hartsfield Atlanta where the double queue leads to twenty-plus snail-like lines.
71:
There was more to Giant Eagle's corporate racism that just understaffing branches in black neighborhoods. Up until at least the mid-nineties, they would send new produce first to branches in affluent white neighborhoods. If it didn't sell after three or so days, it was shipped over to the branch JRoth described. (This sounds like an urban legend, I admit, but I have it from the son of the owners.)
Oh my god, I remember the Food Gallery. What a name.
Canadians call lines "line ups."
I learned this, like everything else, from Kids in the Hall sketches about Flying Pig and Son of Flying Pig.
I really am having trouble - and perhaps the trouble is merely with my capacity for imagination - picturing one of those single-queue-to-branching-queues deals in which it's easy to maneuver a grocery cart. I prefer self-service registers. My mother sees them as abominations because they further reduce the concept of "service" in the store.
woefully undercashiered... most of the customers had carts literally overflowing with merch
Ah, but see, the staff are all busy restocking the shelves after they've been stripped bare.
I really am having trouble...picturing one of those single-queue-to-branching-queues deals in which it's easy to maneuver a grocery cart.
Cultural differences. 85% (ex recto) of the people standing in line are carrying their groceries in a hand basket instead of pushing a cart because they don't want to buy more groceries than they can manage to carry home. Only the people willing to pay for delivery or a taxi are pushing a cart.
And you people call yourself neurotics. One of the worst parts of going to the grocery store is the decision about picking a line, and kicking yourself when your line is slower than another. Single line=awesome. I've shopped at many a Whole Foods, including one in Manhattan with a single line, and the single line is king.
76: I am convinced that this is standard practice among grocery stores. I see no other reason that the store in my neighborhood sucks, but the one a bare mile away doesn't.
81: when I was a small child, just after my father had graduated from college, my family lived in a poor neighborhood. (Mainly hispanic rather than black.) The grocery stores were indeed much worse than on the wealthier side of town, and my parents were part of a shopping co-op which involved a rotating member of the co-op making the trip across town to the better grocery and shopping for every one.
81,76: The understaffed part here doesn't sound like racism, it sounds like good business sense. They are offering lower prices in lieu of cashiers and they have a prime location so even with the wait it is still more convenient then going to a better market.
83 -- prices are not lower in the poorly staffed markets in the economically blighted neighborhood. At least this was not the case in Modesto of the mid-70's.
Hm. Now I think I was misreaing your comment, 73. Maybe the thread of comments to which it is responding, as well.
85: 71 made it sound as though prices were lower. Even if they were the same the location still would make it convenient even with the wait. It doesn't sound like it was hurting business any so I don't see why they would hire more cashiers.
86 -- I don't see a lot of basis for that assumption in 62, which is where the racism thing originates. From 71 it looks like there is one upscale supermarket with high prices. But I expect the poorly-staffed supermarkets in the black section of town, mentioned in 62, have prices comparable to the other markets in town excepting The Food Gallery.
They are offering lower prices in lieu of cashiers
Correct me if I'm wrong, but IME, they're not offering lower prices. Markets in minority neighborhoods are notorious for being more expensive than their equivalents in white neighborhoods.
Pwned while answering the door. Curse you, neighbors.
87: That is why I was asking for clarification to 62 in 65. JRoth will have to chime in if he is still reading this to clarify further I guess. Either way it still seems like a business decision. If you can get people to stand 15 deep and still buy lots of stuff why hire more people?
I've found that stores in poorer neighborhoods in such national chains like Target, are much much crappier than stores in more affluent ones. They're in disarray, with crap strewn everywhere, the shelves are often not stocked properly, and the staff is not interested in being helpful. I've found this to be the case from D.C. to Des Moines to Oakland.
Prices are just as expensive, often more, in the minority neighborhood than in the white one. The same is true of the Walmart and the Target.
IIRC the general explanation for the price discrepancy is (a) more leakage/breakage in the minority neighborhood; and (b) less mobile customers with less time to comparison shop.
I was quite impressed with the system at Whole Foods in Union Square, and I don't generally have warm fuzzy feelings about Whole Foods. As good as their system is, there's still a violation of the line rule that I see often enough to be annoying: someone going to a register that was signalled for a different lane than theirs. (for those not familiar with the store, they have a "single-line" that's broken into several lanes which take turns in sequence. As registers come free, the number is indicated *for the next lane in order*, and it happens fast enough that there may be several people going to free registers at once.) So if someone goes to your lane because it's closer, you're screwed if you weren't paying attention to which other registers came free.
90: I live a few blocks away from the store JRoth described. Its prices are the same as the chain's other stores.
The deal is that it was once the high-priced Food Gallery, and now is just the White Person Giant Eagle. Is the Black Person Giant Eagle of Wilted Produce in East Liberty?
I think it's technically located in Shadyside, but it's functionally in East Liberty.
90: So you can sell stuff to the people who come in the door, see the line, and turn around and walk out to go somewhere else.
98: You have to be able to sell enough more stuff to cover your extra labor costs though. I don't know whether one would or not, but there is something about the market that keeps or at least kept people coming back and standing in line. Sounds mostly like the location was quite convenient.
"No, the women at the bar are served their beverages in reverse order of hotness. The men are ignored."
Thats why you get the girls to order for you.
I've shopped two different Giant Eagle's, one on eihter side of the giant state school campus. The one borders on a mainly black neighborhood, the other on a semi-suburb yuppie neighborhood. The one near the black neighborhood had the worst produce. Always flies on stuff, and never fresh. I assumed it had more to do with dietary choices and turnover.
single line to 12 registers in the Navy Commissary.....
It looks like nobody has pointed out yet that the Giant Eagle in the black neighborhood which became the nexus of this discussion actually closed down about three years ago. Now they have to walk or take the bus to the much nicer and bigger "Market District" Giant Eagle.
The deal is that it was once the high-priced Food Gallery, and now is just the White Person Giant Eagle. Is the Black Person Giant Eagle of Wilted Produce in East Liberty?
If it's the one in North Oakland, it's now closed. If it's the one here, it should probably be considered East Liberty, and is now very close to the new Trader Joe's.
I had no idea that the White Person Giant Eagle on Centre Avenue used to be a different grocery store under a different name. It must have been closed for at least six years in between its incarnations. I thought GE had bought an empty lot and built a building there.