Re: Only The Locals Can Play

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"Just because you can doesn't mean you should," said Select Board member Dick DeGray. "You can't go into a store and buy an adult magazine until you're 18, and yet you can walk down the street in Vermont and see naked people. There's something wrong with that picture."

Yes, that Americans can't make a distinction between nudity and porn.


Posted by: Magpie | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 9:48 AM
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Naked truth be told, some Americans just don't know how to exercise self-restraint.


Posted by: swampcracker | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 9:50 AM
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4610.92


Posted by: NCProsecutor | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 9:56 AM
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Hey, NCProsecutor (whose name I always parse as "NCP rosecutor"), you and the other North Carolinians should make every effort possible to see Ahleuchatistas, native to your state, perform.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 9:59 AM
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Way to ruin it for everyone, old guy.

If I had a dollar for every time someone said that to me....


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 10:04 AM
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Surely the town can incorporate its nudists! Why, when I was a child, it was quite usual to see naked people all over the place, on the beach, on the street, at the public festivals. If you didn't want to look, you didn't! Nudity doesn't have to be provocative in either sense---and, to be honest, it's almost never sexy.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 10:13 AM
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Jackmormon is correct. I almost prefer Jones Beach to St. Tropez because the white t-shirt for a bathing suit still beats naked for the vast majority of people.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 10:15 AM
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Huh-huh, you said "beats".


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 10:15 AM
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Heebie:

I'm glad that I am not the only allegedly adult who does that.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 10:17 AM
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I'm glad that I am not the only allegedly adult who does that.

In public? I don't think that's ok.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 10:20 AM
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Have we learned nothing from today's reading material?


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 10:20 AM
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I'm glad that I am not the only allegedly adult who does that.

You aren't.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 10:21 AM
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huh huh, with the "l," text said pubic!


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 10:22 AM
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You aren't.

Are you in the porn business?

Sorry NcP.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 10:23 AM
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4: I'll keep my eye out when they get back from the west coast.


Posted by: NCProsecutor | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 10:26 AM
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15: "keep my eye out" s/b "keep my eyes open"


Posted by: NCProsecutor | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 10:26 AM
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Why, when I was a child, it was quite usual to see naked people all over the place, on the beach, on the street, at the public festivals.

At home and in the street, in the office, in the kitchen, and in church, in the restaurant and in the neighborhood public bath, in front of my colleagues, my mother-in-law, and my husband, especially when he fucked me, and poorly.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 10:27 AM
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and my husband, especially when he fucked me, and poorly.

Oh Ben. You don't have to supply the rocks for people to throw at you.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 10:33 AM
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Follow the link for an enlightening tale about Samsung.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 10:39 AM
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Or to induce a seizure; one or the other.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 10:40 AM
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ogged is right about the seizure-inducing properties of that link. It gave me a bit of a headache after only a few seconds.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 10:54 AM
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Y'all are weak. Young-Hae Chang is a genius.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 10:56 AM
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So is Aqua Teen Hunger Force.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 10:58 AM
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Not really disagreeing with 6,7 but: Last week I was studying by the fountain in Washington Square Park when I noticed that everyone else was looking at something (and the quickly looking away), and following their glances found that one woman thought it would be a good day to tan topless. I didn't throw my hands in the air, but it was a near thing.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 11:29 AM
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Wait, the select board member's name is Dick DeGray?


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 11:30 AM
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You know what makes me throw my hands in the air? This does.

Meet the future leaders of America.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 11:31 AM
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17: For about five years after I watched that, I would giggle to myself every time I saw a Samsung product.

Hasn't completely worn off.


Posted by: elemund | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 11:41 AM
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The link in 26 is just awesome.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 11:41 AM
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It really is. Enwhitelment writ large.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 11:49 AM
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The thread in 24 is interesting. BPhD was a lot less indignant back then.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 11:53 AM
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The guy in the link from 26 who explained that he wouldn't enlist because he's career-oriented is great.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 11:56 AM
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26, 29. Selection bias. Exactly how many college Marxists are organizing janitors, and how many using Daddy's mastercard while doing so. News flash: Undergrads are wankers.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 11:58 AM
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30: Yeah, well, I'd had two fewer years of putting up with nonsense at that point.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 12:06 PM
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I liked the guy who was saving himself for an even bigger war.


Posted by: Michael Vanderwheel, B.A. | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 12:16 PM
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32: What do you figure are the relative numbers and influence of college marxists versus College Republicans?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 12:22 PM
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Depends on what you mean by "marxist". You have to read about 18 works of political theory before you can feel confident calling yourself by such a demonized term in America. But there are a lot of people in leftist groups which would be called marxist by outsiders.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 12:25 PM
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BPhD was a lot less indignant back then.

And text had a longer name.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 12:25 PM
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Failure to organize janitors hasn't cost hundreds of thousands of lives in the past few years. That's my impression, at least.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 12:25 PM
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Neither, technically, has failure to enlist.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 12:26 PM
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And M/tch M/lls both existed and had vowels.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 12:28 PM
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39: Killjoy.


Posted by: NCProsecutor | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 12:29 PM
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Enough of your sophistry, w-lfs-n. You know what I mean.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 12:29 PM
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And I was single.


Posted by: NCProsecutor | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 12:31 PM
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3002.95. Still the champ.


Posted by: NCProsecutor | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 12:36 PM
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My point is that the type of person who not only joins the College Republicans, but goes to the national convention is not exactly the sort who is in ROTC. Different skill set.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 12:40 PM
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not exactly the sort who is in ROTC

But *is*, however, exactly the type that pounds their chest and calls Democrats cowards.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 12:44 PM
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And College Democrats call Republicans facists. The bright eyed and eager who drink the kool- aide early have always bugged me. Get a job first, and not one that involves fetching scotch for the Senator.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 12:49 PM
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And College Democrats call Republicans facists.

How else would you describe people who judge others by the fronts of their heads?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 12:51 PM
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45: Not that it disproves your general point, but one of the interviewees is/was in ROTC but claims medical exemption from service.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 12:52 PM
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My point is that the type of person who not only joins the College Republicans, but goes to the national convention is not exactly the sort who is in ROTC. Different skill set.

Meaning what, precisely? My husband was in ROTC. What skill set did that involve, do you think? Other than a willingness to follow through on his beliefs, I mean.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 12:55 PM
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Apo, are you saying you would have more respect for someone who supported the war in Iraq and as a consequence of that support enlisted in the armed forces?


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 12:57 PM
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My point is Dr. B., that College Republicans and College Democrats alike think that they are getting an inner track to political leadership, whereas ROTC is in fact true leadership training. Big difference.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 12:59 PM
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51: Wouldn't you?


Posted by: soubzriquet | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 1:00 PM
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How did the nudity thread become political?


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 1:02 PM
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I don't know. I have a good friend who did that and it sort of makes me think of him as crazy.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 1:04 PM
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My point is that

Sure, these college republicans are bad, but look out for the college marxists and their flying monkey chariots of flame? What?


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 1:04 PM
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Wow, since #26 not a single person has said anything about the actual post, only about #26. Most successful hijack I've seen in a while.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 1:04 PM
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Absolutely. Hell, I have a friend who opposed the war and enlisted as a medic upon graduating college.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 1:04 PM
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whereas ROTC is in fact true leadership training.

No, this is not at all what you wrote, it isn't true, and college republicans & democrats are entirely different creatures.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 1:06 PM
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I also think the door-to-door Christians are crazy, but I can't help but admire that they believe strongly enough to do it. Seriously.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 1:06 PM
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How did the nudity thread become political?

Politics was one of the other reasons for all the naked people where I grew up. Or at least they said it was political.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 1:07 PM
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52: Mmmmmaybe. I definitely think that actually doing something you believe in is the route to Real Leadership, but more and more I suspect the route to Republican party success is being an ass-kissing piece of shit.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 1:08 PM
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I can believe that 52 was your point (I'm not sure I agree with it, but it's a reasonable point to make) but I have no idea how we were supposed to get that point by reading 32, 45 and 47, or even what it has to do with them.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 1:11 PM
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60: I wouldn't say I admire them so much as I think it's the absolute least they could do. Same goes for enlisting if you think it's such a good idea for other people to do it.

Bleating hypocrites, on the other hand, don't deserve any respect. It doesn't matter if you agree with them or not. The fist pumping chickenhawk is just as pathetic as the SUV driving, fast food scarfing greenie, etc.


Posted by: soubzriquet | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 1:12 PM
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Show me the video of self-described college marxists showing off their trust funds. It makes such little sense, it's hard to write it.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 1:12 PM
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I think it's the absolute least they could do

Um, you think going door-to-door to witness is the least they could do? What do you make of the 99.9% of active Christians who don't do that?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 1:15 PM
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Where are there any college Marxists?


Posted by: Michael Vanderwheel, B.A. | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 1:16 PM
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67: Perhaps here?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 1:17 PM
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The Spartacists are Marxists of some variety, right? We had a bunch of those. Annoying fuckers, even when I agree with them.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 1:20 PM
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66: 99% (or whatever) of christians aren't in the same theological boat, though are they? At least as I understand it, this lot (well really, it's several groups) have a dogmatic belief about the neccessity and form of evangelism. So they have to do this, to be consistent with their beliefs.

Of course on the other hand, there are plenty of `christians' I disdain for contradicting their stated beliefs.


Posted by: soubzriquet | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 1:22 PM
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Well I have conflated several points. First, undergrad political leadership draws a certain type, who are completely different from those who are in ROTC. The leadership of both the College Republicans and College Democrats are more like each other than they are like ROTC cadets. Few of the college leaders will get elected to public office, but will become staffers and the like for elected officials and the national parties. There are many types of leadership, and ROTC is but one form of leadership training. I am in favor of more public nudity, but am afraid that it will manifest itself in the form of fat old men, not nubile coeds.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 1:25 PM
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College Republicans and College Democrats alike

I can't speak for College Democrats specifically -- there were none where I went to school -- but the marxists/leftists weren't aiming for an inside track to power; to the extent that they were active, they continued in non-governmental activism through everything from neighborhood organizing to running recycling centers to legal work (from legal aid to arguing before the Supreme Court). Not that there weren't plenty who were only minimally active, myself included, but I don't know of any who became congressional staffers or junior members of the pundit class.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 1:26 PM
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71: That should work out ok for you though, since unless I've missed something your chances of becoming a fat old man are vastly better than of becoming a nubile coed.


Posted by: soubzriquet | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 1:29 PM
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72: I don't know how even the most naive undergraduate in the US could consider marxism or even serious leftism an inside track to political power in this country. College democrats could be a different case altogether.


Posted by: soubzriquet | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 1:31 PM
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The first 6:25 of that video shows what's wrong with College Republicans. Between 6:25 to 6:50 is an example of what's wrong with College Democrats.


Posted by: NotATurtle | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 1:32 PM
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73. Yes, I have that "covered" as it were.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 1:32 PM
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I shared a house with several College Democrats a few years ago. They spent most of their time organizing or talking about meetings. And rehearsing for The Vagina Monologues in the living room. Very naive and free-spirited, compared to what I saw of the College Republicans.


Posted by: Michael Vanderwheel, B.A. | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 1:32 PM
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The Spartacists are Marxists of some variety, right?

I've always had an affection for the Spartacists because people refer to them as "The Sparts" and I think that's extremely funny. But I could not distinguish them, ideologically speaking, from the SWP and might not even be able to separate them out from the Trotskyists (or "Trots").


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 1:36 PM
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71: North Carolina's College Democrats vs. North Carolina's College Republicans. You decide.


Posted by: NCProsecutor | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 1:39 PM
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74: True, very different, but 'college Marxists' elided into 'College Democrats' upthread. I went to a famously liberal college, so I really don't know -- do College Democrats elsewhere have the profile that College Republicans do? My impression has been that if you're a starry-eyed active liberal you go into some kind of focused activism rather than into government.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 1:42 PM
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80 is in accord with my college experience.


Posted by: NCProsecutor | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 1:46 PM
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79. I know which I would rather do, if that's what you're asking.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 1:47 PM
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Correction to 77: they were members of something called the "Progressive Student Alliance," and actually did not associate much with the College Democrats (who, as I recall, were pre-law types).

Also: LaRouchejugend?


Posted by: Michael Vanderwheel, B.A. | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 1:48 PM
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80: yeah, I don't know either, which is what I was trying to say. I have no experience of it, but I can imagine College Democrat groups out there that roughly match College Replublican profile. Marxists, not so much.


Posted by: soubzriquet | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 1:49 PM
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erm, Republican, even.


Posted by: soubzriquet | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 1:49 PM
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82: Cute, but that's not exactly the wandering point you've been making up until now, is it?


Posted by: NCProsecutor | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 1:55 PM
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And just in case you thought Max Blumenthal was one-sided, here he proves he's an equal opportunity embarrasser.


Posted by: NCProsecutor | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 2:01 PM
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Well, my point wandered as different commenters chose to challenge different aspects of my first comment, which fish, meet barrel. Undergrad politicos are usually jerks, regardless of political stripe. I have a particular reaction to the chickenhawk accusation, but that doesn't mean I like those guys.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 2:13 PM
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88:
Huge swathes of any undergraduate population are pretty annoying for similar reasons, politically active or no.


Posted by: soubzriquet | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 2:16 PM
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70: "Of course on the other hand, there are plenty of `christians' I disdain for contradicting their stated beliefs."

(Note house style!)

If you don't contradict your stated beliefs every once in a while, then one of two things applies:

1. You're a saint on Earth.

2. Your stated beliefs are kind of pathetically lax.

One is way more likely than the other.


Posted by: Epoch | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 2:21 PM
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Conservative Christians are as sexually lax as everyone else, and lots of them are more sexually lax than most liberals (except B). Aggressively scapegoating people much like yourself is worse than simple hypocrisy.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 2:46 PM
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90: I wasn't meaning to hold anyone up as perfect (myself least of all). I probably should have stated this wasn't in any sense absolute, not assumed that was obvious.

There is a big difference between someone who is trying, but messes up or has contradictions (i.e. they are human) and someone who is actively trying to hold other people to standards they have not intention of meeting themselves, or to claim such standards. Likewise someone who plays word games for convenience. If you have a belief (whatever it is) understand the implications of it, and at least try to live with (or up to) them.

I also really wasn't meaning anything particularly about Christians, or any other group; they were just the running example. What I meant is that I consider it baseline acceptable for a person to try and live and by the implications of their own stated beliefs, this isn't something that deserves respect, it is what we should expect from any human being. In failing to do this, you can get the converse ... do it enough and you will earn disdain.


Posted by: soubzriquet | Link to this comment | 07-19-07 2:56 PM
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I think his strategy to get her to look was pretty poor, If I did it I would definitely follow this surefire plan:

1. Look down,
2. Immediately scream in a high pitched manner and dance around flapping your arms are yelling oh god oh god while continuing to look down in a manner intended to convey extreme terror.
3. profit.



Posted by: bryan | Link to this comment | 07-20-07 5:39 AM
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I realized that yesterday I misrepresented what my freind actually did. Probably no one cares now but I thought I should at least set the record straight. He didn't enlist because he supported the Iraq war, he enlisted because he had been duped into supporting the Iraq war. Meaning, he believed in the war and the President's plans for it, and expressed that belief at the ballot box in 2004. He later realized he'd been wrong, that the war was a fraud and a mistake, that the President and the administration were incompentent fools, unserious liars, etc. His resultant guilt led him to enlist; since he felt he bore some (small) responsibility for the war, he didn't think it was fair to leave it others to fight. Oddly, he hadn't felt so compelled to enlist back when he believed the war was a good idea. I was of the position that most people in his situation would seek absolution by voting against the war in 2008 (whatever that means), but he sort of felt that with thousands of people dead and dying voting simply wasn't enough.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 07-20-07 7:18 AM
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Wow. That's some serious penance-doing there. I'm not sure if I think it's counterproductive or not, but you have to give the man his proper respect for taking matters seriously.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07-20-07 7:59 AM
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He's always been one to take ideas very seriously. Which is respectable, sure, but I do think counterproductive in this case.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 07-20-07 8:22 AM
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Yeah, my friend who enlisted as a medic (despite having just earned a highly marketable degree *and* decent fluency in Chinese) did so because he thought the entire enterprise needed as many caring humanists as it could get, and that if he didn't go, the position would get filled by somebody who didn't care about helping Iraqis.

I thought he was insane to enlist in the middle of this war, but on the other hand, I'm in total awe of the dedication to his principles and the sacrifices he made to them. Most of his LiveJournal is friends-only, but here's one public post, which I think I've linked here before.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 07-20-07 8:30 AM
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