Ogged's ideas are becoming mainstream.
It takes a lot of gusto to proclaim oneself innocent before all humanity, Becks.
Is there really any question here?
3: I can't imagine what legitimate question there would be.
Legitimate concern. When do we just give up all pretense and start openly sentencing people to torture? Oh, wait.
I don't think there's any question on this, but I don't feel 100% certain I know which side the other non-questioners are on.
How about "real men don't get all bent out of shape and start shooting when someone irritates them"?
"Hey, do you guys think you could help a brother out? We've got this new shame culture we're working on."
8: Look at the world around you, B. Of course real men do that. All the f#*king time!
8: That'll never fly in Texas, Bitch.
There are times for weenified liberal squeamishness at the licensed torture of other human beings to rear its pointy head by its skinny neck and say, "ahem, excuse me, but these people have rights too." And this is one of those times.
I'd respect a community group that would step up and take on this horrible "stop snitching" stuff, which is basically a call to kill witnesses who come forward in murder cases. I understand there's a lot of those kind of killings in DC.
I wonder if Ronald Moten is related to college b-ball great Lawrence Moten. Poetry in Moten!
How about "real men don't get all bent out of shape and start shooting when someone irritates them"?
I think the "at least don't kill innocent people" plan is more reasonable. Let's start with that.
Also, people sometimes want to get revenge for something more serious than just being irritated.
If Steele could do it for duelling, then someone oughta be able to do it for gang-related shooting, dammit.
7: Yes, of course. Pardon me for doubting.
When do we just give up all pretense and start openly sentencing people to torture?
After visiting Alcatraz, I'm even less convinced than I was before that being sentenced to years in prison is better for anyone involved than flogging or being deliberately tasered or whatever other form of physical punishment.
Am I totally morally bankrupt if I say I'm a tiny bit ambivalent here about the goals, as opposed to the methods? I mean, I'd sort of prefer a society where criminals had a strong moral code, or stylistic preference, or whatever, prohibiting injuring innocent bystanders.
It just seems so ridiculous that (a) people believe they're going to successfully create such a code out of nowhere, or (b) that they think it's acceptable to recruit prisoners to commit crimes against other prisoners to that or any other end.
Given that prisoners constantly commit crimes against other prisoners, it might as well be as the result of a moral code that has positive results.
These people are just addressing the problem by working within the astonishing cruel and nonsensical system that they have no hope of changing.
Our prison system is so baroquely barbarous it's hard to know where to start. In fact, I think it's so awful, it makes healthcare look easy. Let's put prison reform on the agenda, so we can get healthcare done by way of procrastination.
What LB said. It's just so naive.
It'd be better if the sick, ever-escalating American prison culture didn't exist, but while it exists I suppose it makes some sense to make use of it. I don't have a better idea.
Maybe they should change the code of the street to "real men duel with katanas at dawn," though. Give the alternative a patina of romance.
13: The "stop snitching" stuff is also a response to people selling other people down the river, guilty or not, to save their own skins. This complicates community efforts to confront the more horrible aspects of the "stop snitching" campaign because, much though it may sound like an excuse, it's hard to argue that it doesn't genuinely happen fairly frequently.
23: My theory is that we fix it by ending the war on drugs, and then not cutting prison budgets. Shrink the imprisoned population, and spend the leftover money on increased security so prisoners can't hurt each other, real medical/psychiatric care, educational/vocational programs... how hard could it be?
I agree that I wish they had such a code, but that inculcating one is ridiculous and morally questionable. And with no chance of success that I can imagine.
LB, your recipe seems to make sense only because you stuck a whole bunch of words between "ending the war on drugs" and "how hard could it be."
Let's put prison reform on the agenda, so we can get healthcare done by way of procrastination.
I can get behind that.
Am I totally morally bankrupt if I say I'm a tiny bit ambivalent here about the goals, as opposed to the methods?
Am I totally morally bankrupt of I say I find myself somewhat in favor of the concept of bringing democracy to the Middle East?
Pretty much, yeah.
I mean, sure, we're all in favor of innocent bystanders and democracy, but it kind of misses the point to emphasize those things when we are being presented with a plan that is cruel and crazy.
13: Yeah, but that end of it has to be addressed through prosecutorial practices, not street culture. There's no way a 'stop snitching' ideal is going to be powerful enough to keep people from selling each other out under the sorts of inducements prosecutors have available.
That was to 25 quoting 13, not 13.
Don't forget, we have to throw mixed-income housing into the recipe.
Shrink the imprisoned population
What America needs is fewer and smaller prisoners.
slolerner says prison is for Mexicans.
No, if we build a fence, see, then we can say that all Mexico is a prison.
21: Morally bankrupt, no, but nor would you be if you held the opposite position, I think. I'd prefer that society too. However, given that we don't have that society, we should look into other ways to reduce the frequency that innocent bystanders get hit. The system mentioned in this story is marginally better than lynch mobs, but not nearly as good as (to make up an example on the spot which may well be flawed) encouraging cultural exchanges with the yakuza, who already have such a no-innocent-bystanders code. It seems to me like the problem with this is the fact that it encourages prison rape and other violence, not the fact that it relies on shame or fear rather than appealing to the better nature of people who would do drive-bys.
31: Out here, the DA is always complaining about how hard it is to get witnesses to testify in murder cases due to fear of retribution, which sounds like "stop snitching" is at least somewhat effective.
26: I have always contended that Michael Moore's genius is to take on subjects where there isn't serious controversy among people with any sense - but huge controversy among others.
I think America's crazy prison system - especially as regards drug crimes - should be the subject of Moore's next movie.
encouraging cultural exchanges with the yakuza
Organized crime exchange students. Awesome.
How about we reform the prison system by having a lottery system like jury duty that can hand you off a short sentence at a random location.
Much as I confess I enjoy Michael Moore, I have yet to see any evidence of his effectiveness.
38: This way you give up on actuall witnesses and get testimony from other people looking to cut a deal with prosecution, because they are so highly motivated to tell the truth.
No, if we build a fence, see, then we can say that all Mexico is a prison.
We're going to need Guatemala's help.
What LB said, ditch the war on drugs, and if criminals want to self enforce a code of no innocent bystanders, have at it.
Where's the NRA in all this? Surely, there are some free marksmanship classes (plus maybe a short seminar on the code of duello) they could offer here.
ditch the war on drugs
Without a doubt, that is the single easiest and most effective crime reduction strategy available to us.
Maybe they should change the code of the street to "real men duel with katanas at dawn," though. Give the alternative a patina of romance.
Haven't the Wu-Tang Clan been advocating this for years?
We're going to need Guatemala's help.
We could threaten to invade them again. And we're crazy enough to do it!
42: Depends on what you're asking for from the guy. He's a movie-maker, and (it says here) a very effective one - heck, I'll stand by my previous use of the word "genius".
If we don't get national healthcare in the next administration, it's going to be the fault of a lot of people - but not Moore, who used his tiny bit of influence to push in the right direction.
21
"... I mean, I'd sort of prefer a society where criminals had a strong moral code, or stylistic preference, or whatever, prohibiting injuring innocent bystanders.
It just seems so ridiculous that (a) people believe they're going to successfully create such a code out of nowhere, ..."
Is it really out of nowhere? Unless numerous gangster movies and the like are all lies there already exists to some extent such a preference.
31: I wouldn't expect "stop snitching" to be any more, or any less, effective than any other omerta-style "code of silence" situation.
In general, I think those who are saying that it's naive to expect a "code of the street" to affect anything are being naive. Prisoners aren't an undifferentiated mass of Satanic evil, and there's plenty of evidence that the codes of the prison subculture have a substantial effect on what people do, or think they can get away with doing. If "treat drive-by felons like rapists" took hold -- and it could -- it's non-crazy to think it would have an effect.
Of course, the fact that the existing prison system is barbaric and screwed-up enough to make brutal "solutions" like this possible does indicate that there are big problems with the system that need tackling. Obviously.
48: Yes! True. And it's time for people to listen!
Unless numerous gangster movies and the like are all lies
Not "lies." Fiction.
Another idea: a guns-for-guns exchange, where semi-auto pistols are turned in for desirable single-shot dueling pistols. Perhaps also legalize the concealed carry of derringers.
If "treat drive-by felons like rapists" took hold -- and it could -- it's non-crazy to think it would have an effect.
That's right. Rape would probably be a big problem in this country if we didn't have prisoners to enforce the taboo !
This way you give up on actuall witnesses and get testimony from other people looking to cut a deal with prosecution, because they are so highly motivated to tell the truth
Again, in my city something ridiculously low like 20% of the murders end up in a conviction. I can't help but think that this makes people less willing to testify.
A time for a crime that I can't find
I'll show you my gun
My muzzle-loading musket weighs a ton
Because I'm Public Enemy number one.
that end of it has to be addressed through prosecutorial practices, not street culture
It's not just other criminals who could be turned through plea-bargains, though. "Stop snitching" targets true innocent bystanders who aren't susceptible to the threat of jail time.
What 56 said.
Also, maybe Rock the Bells will solve this problem for us.
54
Perhaps, but it seems plausible for pragmatic reasons if not moral ones that gangsters would generally prefer to avoid killing 8 year old girls on the way to church and the like when going after their rivals.
59: This is pulled out of my ass, but I would guess that the vast majority of intentionally false testimony against criminal defendants (which is what DS was addressing) is by other criminal defendants, and is elicited by promises of reduced jail time. (I'm sure that the intent is usually to obtain truthful testimony, but that it doesn't always work out that way.)
48 - Those are wushu swords, not katanas, racist.
I also have to admit I'm a little mystified as to why "stop snitching" gets so much attention, given that it's just an update on an utterly conventional "code of silence" theme.
56 is a bit witless, sorry. If rape still happens, all cultural prohibitions of any kind against it should not necessarily be judged as having absolutely no effect whatsoever. Nor is it out of bounds to consider prison subculture's effects among the set of cultural prohibitions, even while we acknowledge that it's a weird, brutal and very specific subset that wouldn't have to be a factor in healthier circumstances.
While the group may talk in terms of making prison life more difficult for drive-by , the DC police don't solve murders, by and large. So this is indeed an attempt at creating a shame culture, where shaming would be most powerful outside prison since convictions for the relevant crime do not happen often. It's a slippery slope. I'd be inclined to trust the people in the community group, rather than prescribing how they need to be talking to kids in gangs. Maybe they mention jail to gain credibility with the kids they're talking to rather than with a serious hope of influencing gangs in jail. Agree re: "stop snitching;" it's hard to say what the rules should be for people taking on a big mess, as many problems are tangled together, and discussing one in isolation is artificial.
What I just do not get is the penchant of hispanic tough guys outside DC for T-shirts with heavily armed cartoon characters, tweety being a runaway favorite. In the south, Tweety is a girl, right?
56 is a bit witless, sorry
Brevity is the soul of witless. If you want more detailed ridicule, try this: Enlisting convicts as enforcers of social norms on broader society is a loony idea in part because the social norm opposing, say, child-rape is one that prisoners adopt from broader society, not one they impose on it.
But if we're going to approach the issue this way, why not enlist prisoners to oppose, say, all murders, or embezzlement or voting Republican or something. Why aim this awesome weapon at the relatively small social problem of driveby shootings?
Convicts could no doubt be persuaded to enforce any number of social norms. Plus, they could give out ponies.
Those are wushu swords, not katanas
Ok, what about the sword in Ghost Dog?
Heh. yeah. Why don't we just enlist criminals not to commit crimes? I think that'd cut down on the bulk of it.
67: Am I the only Kurosawa fan in the room? Tosjiro Mifune, folks? Tatsuya Nakadai? Zatoichi and The Suprisingle Yakuza-Filled Village? Hell, Lone Wolf and Cub?
criminals had a strong moral code
Criminals and convicts are not the same. Convicts and other hierarchies (like gangs) need a code of conduct much more than criminals. Conversely, the benefit of a cultural change about shooting too much would be greatest on criminals rather than on convicts.
the new macho is slap-fighting.
And fundraisers for the PTA.
There was a recent case where a gang member was trying to break a rival gang member's pencil but he missed and ended up breaking an innocent child's pencil instead. Tragic.
¿Quien es mas macho?: shooter or bake-sale contributor?
Our pencil holders are overpopulated and underfunded. Sometimes you see pencils just jammed in a cup, and they call it a temporary holder.
The "stop snitching" stuff is also a response to people selling other people down the river, guilty or not, to save their own skins.
Everything LB said. The issue of prosecuters flipping other criminals needs to be addressed as by policymakers in the system. There's also a role for juries.
But much of the "stop snitching" stuff is pretty explicitly aimed at innocent bystanders in the community who might know or witness something and come forward with it. They are the people prosecutors have no leverage with (no charges to dismiss) and are acting as a pure public service. It's thus more possible to get to them with threats.
I must confess that I'd prefer the summary execution of drive-by shooters. But that's probably because my law school is in a bad part of LA, and we'd leave class in the evening to discover yet another Drive-by Alert posted on the exit doors. There was a patio area that was used for study during the day; in the evening, it was deemed unsafe, random bullets having flown through on several occasions.
How many of you had first year orientation speeches that started out "You will be mugged sometime during your time here, and your car will be broken into. Do not wear any jewelry you care about, including wedding rings..."
Our pencil holders are overpopulated and underfunded
the new over-sexed.
Who wants to overpopulate Mutombo's pencil holder?
67 and 70 are both right. (And Wu-Tang is a correct answer by way of 67. Cf. the RZA's horrible cameo in that movie.)
66: the social norm opposing, say, child-rape is one that prisoners adopt from broader society, not one they impose on it.
This makes no sense. Presumably, any group of people adopts norms from broader society in some specific way before turning around and imposing them. Prisoners are exceptional only in the weirdness of their circumstances.
But look, as I've said, I'm basically in sympathy with you about the looniness of a situation in which prison culture is expected to enforce social norms. I'm just saying that given the existing loony parameters, the notion of enlisting it to affect an issue pertinent to much of the prison population is not more loony than the status quo and may well be less so. If there are great ideas on how, practically, to dismantle the prison-industrial complex so that short-term kludges like that aren't necessary, all the better.
The Mineshaft may be in a bad position to constructively change DC street culture norms, but as far as ending the drug war goes, I wish more people were aware that they really can contribute in a small but direct way (in addition to, say, trying to elect sane politicians): seek out, to the extent possible, jury duty. Often they use voter registration rolls, so be sure you're registered. When the judge asks things like "Would you be able to convict if the evidence shows he's guilty?", there is a right answer. It only takes 1 to hang a jury.
77: Again, this is a change from pre-existing code of silence culture how? I'm not just snarking, this is a genuine question.
Not that I'm advocating perjury or anything, because that would be illegal and wrong.
Jury duty is indeed important, but I have never, ever been able to get my ass onto a jury.
When asked if I thought drugs should be legalized, I truthfully answered "yes." I ended up serving anyway. The jury was hung.
seek out, to the extent possible, jury duty
I've been registered to vote for 20 years now, and I just got my very first jury duty summons ever this summer. I'm honestly excited about it.
I'm honestly excited about it.
I got a photocopied certificate thanking me for my service.
I got CASH for my service.
Why? So you'd stop snitchin'?
85: yeah, me neither. But hey, all you can do is try.
I was really irritated to see how many people got themselves kicked out in jury selection by admitting to opposing the drug war. Obviously one can construct a philosophical position that justifies this--and probably most of them just wanted to avoid jury duty--but come on: it doesn't exactly stop the insanity to have all the sane people effectively recuse themselves.
How many of you had first year orientation speeches that started out "You will be mugged sometime during your time here, and your car will be broken into. Do not wear any jewelry you care about, including wedding rings..."
Did this turn out to be true?
90.---Because you get paid for jury duty around here?
Be sure not to write something like "I love chinks" on your intake form, apo.
Because you get paid for jury duty around here?
Ah, I'd envisioned Stringer Bell giving you CASH.
Here's an indication of the dominant themes in our household over the past month: Roberta had a dream the other night where Stringer Bell and Avon Barksdale were trying to put Frontline on the donkey from Shrek.
We gave up and called Orkin. So far, so good. Honestly, I've developed a certain respect for the tiny fuckers' resiliency.
But I do love chinks!
And crannied holes too, right Pyramus?
I didn't even end up on a jury, and I got CASH. The jury I came closest to serving on had a defendant that made Marlo and the Cheese look like altarboys. Scary dude, up on like 20 federal counts.
Stringer Bell and Avon Barksdale were trying to put Frontline on the donkey from Shrek
It would have been even more surreal if Stringer and Avon had been trying to put Donkey on Frontline.
Or Bill Moyers trying to put Stringer Bell on a donkey.
"Stringer Bell" is such a great name.
Stringer Bell's given name is Russell, I noticed.
"Stringer Bell" is such a great name.
And a great character, vastly more interesting than Avon.
61: Perhaps, but it seems plausible for pragmatic reasons if not moral ones that gangsters would generally prefer to avoid killing 8 year old girls on the way to church and the like when going after their rivals.
Actually, I'd argue the opposite. Along with the (supposed) decreased chance of being identified, part of the reasons drive-bys exist as they do is because they are effectively terrorism, against both rivals, "traitors", and the civilian/semi-civilian populace. "Stop snitching" and drive-bys are part of a single culture. To normal people, it's sick, but to many gangsters, at least the threat of an eight year old girl being shot hanging over people's heads is something that helps them.
And a great character, vastly more interesting than Avon.
Let's not start that again. Avon was first among equals for a reason.
The contrast between the two is what makes them both interesting.
107 is correct. Hence the proposals to change that calculus.
110: The point being I don't think it is changing the calculus. Gangsters have been putting pressure on the communities they live in quite effectively with such tactics, as evidenced by (as people have said) the ridiculously low murder conviction rate in DC. The program seems to me to basically be asking the gangsters to voluntarily give up a practice that provides a substantive advantage to them, and that seems far more likely to fail than simply ask them to give up a practice that had unintended negative consequences.
111: Well, there's one sense in which it plainly does have unintended negative consequences, in that gangsters also have families and civilian ties and don't come packaged separately from "the community" at large. (This is part of why gangsters have been known to break ranks over actions of the gang that escalate bloodiness to levels they're not comfortable with.)
111: Not to put too fine a point on it, the D.C. police don't need any help from the criminal class in their valiant efforts to fail to solve murders.
107: I'm not sure I buy that the threat of collateral damage buys the criminals anything. It'd be one thing if they were implicitely threatening to just fire into crowds in your neighborhood for no reason other than retaliation, but if you buy that the collateral damage really is collateral, where's the calculus that suggests you'd be better off supporting them?
I'm sending the batsignal out into the ether to try to get either Snarkout, Redfoxtailshrub, or another member of the Cleveland crowd to email me at the above linked address. I'll probably be coming through in two weeks, want to get in email contact with them but don't have an address.
On crime I'm with 78. End the war on drugs, but zero violence tolerance. Only way to go for a civilized society.
I say this as someone who has no problem with the powerlessness of blog commenting to effect change: this takes the powerlessness of blog commenting to effect change to a whole new level.
If Emerson were in the thread, it would be different. He has people on the inside.
Woo, Cleveland meet-up! Email sent.
Isn't Helpy-Chalk also in NE Ohio?
114: The equation is, I've just proved I'm the baddest out there, everyone else isn't. Shut up.
It's that simple.
Wouldn't drive-by shootings come to an end if guns were banned - or am I missing something?
Kinda like overdoses have stopped since we banned heroin?
Drive-by shootings will come to an end when we run out of oil.
Then we'd just have drive-by bow and arrowings.
The drive-by shootings will continue until morale improves.
The key is probably to make bullets so expensive that people get really careful about wasting them.
Guns don't kill people. Bullets do.
127: I think I've mentioned this before, but back in the bad old days in my neighborhood there was a bike-by shooting quite close by. So Portland! I couldn't tell if the perp was wearing hemp clothing.
130, by the way, is a quote of Daniel Patrick Moynihan, who actually did propose taxation of bullets
131: Was it a recumbent bike?
My hemp bullet-proof vest is gonna be such a hit when we finally move back to Oregon.
Hemp bullets aren't very threatening in the first place.
Oh, I don't know, ben. It ain't your daddy's hemp, these days.
128: The key is probably to make bullets so expensive that people get really careful about wasting them.
Chris Rock on bullet control.
133: For all I know, it might have been one of these. I couldn't see, because I was taking refuge on the kitchen floor.
Control of police weapons came up at lunch today. We concluded that the way to limit unjust police shootings (those not properly life-saving measures) would be to make the weapons unable to fire until a firing pin attached to some delicate tissue (think nipple ring) was torn off the officer.
121: There are a hell of a lot of guns out there, and they don't have a shelf life -- a hundred year old gun that's been minimally maintained can still be fired. We also have huge, uncontrollable borders with not one but two nations that have large numbers of guns.
The idea that we could ban guns and substantially reduce gun violence rests on at least three elements of wishful thinking: 1. That we could feasibly pass a Constitutional Amendment that would make it legal to ban guns. 2. That the only important difference between the US and nations with substantially less violent crime is the availability of guns. 3. That we could reduce the number of available guns down to the levels similar to what's the case in Western European nations within a reasonable timespan.
I know that you're intentionally ignoring the difficulty of 1, and there is a class of people who steadfastly refuse to acknowledge 2, but 3 is based on just physical, material reality -- surely nobody doubts it?
I watched Planet Earth, and sure, the camerawork was amazing (although I want to see it in HD on a bigger television), but something about it was just... off. Then I realized: Unlike many of his other nature specials, David Attenborough isn't in any of the shots this time; he just narrates, off-camera. I think the film felt less personal as a result.
141:
and 4) All the essential technology for "modern" firearms dates from the late 1800s to early 1900's. Any groups capable of running drug labs could easily have their own armories too.
The equation is, I've just proved I'm the baddest out there, everyone else isn't. Shut up.
It's that simple.
Threats are inappropriate on this forum, Biohazard.
If Emerson were in the thread, it would be different. He has people on the inside.
I just have one person inside my skin. But Emerson is different.
Some say that Heebie has a cat inside her skin.
Yes, but I swallowed the cat to catch the bird. Which I'd swallowed in order to catch this spider. And the spider was supposed to catch this fly I'd swallowed, and the fly was really the cause of the whole mess.
There's a hole in your bucket, dear Heebie, dear Heebie.
147: You should stay away from horses until you get this whole thing sorted out.
Old Emerson (uh-huh)
Was a racehorse (uh-huh)
And a good friend (uh-huh)
Of mine, of mine.
You should stay away from horses until you get this whole thing sorted out.
Good advice I knew a different old lady (not me), who swallowed John Emerson The Racehorse. Yup, you guessed it.
I'm a steel-drivin man and I have the strength of .20 ordinary men.
What's a substitute for bread and beans, John? Do engines get rewarded for their steam?
Many, many years ago when I was twenty-three
I was married to a widow as pretty as could be.
This widow had a grown-up daughter who had hair of red.
My father fell in love with her and soon they, too, were wed.
One crazy night I slept with a pair of siamese twins. Nine months later, I had a litter of eight babies, all connected like paper-cut-out dolls.
No regrets, though. No regrets. I call them my garland children.
I love this thread, thank you both.
This widow had a grown-up daughter who had hair of red. / My father fell in love with her and soon they, too, were wed.
We begin to understand the roots of Emerson's no-relationship policy.
When you go on a walk, you don't need eight different leashes.
They fold up so ingeniously, too. And they rock at Red Rover.
One vaccination does them all.
The trouble is, sometimes seven of them gang up on the eighth. If they kick him to death, then they're stuck dragging around this rotting brother. I always just them do that. Serves 'em right.
As opposed to their older sisters, The Russian Dolls. They each needed their own vaccinations, and the little one gets lost so easily.
It was sad when the eighth died and started rotting, but I think in time we all saw the humor in the situation.
I wouldn't be surprised if someday some fishermen caught a big shark and cut it open, and there inside was a whole person. Then they cut the person open, and in him is a little baby shark. And in the baby shark there isn't a person, because it would be too small. But there's a little doll or something, like a Johnny Combat little toy guy---something like that.
I don't know why you'd swallow a Johnny Combat little toy guy. But as long as you did, you'd probably want to swallow a baby shark to go after it.
Now a funny wedding happened the other day
a gal named Oats married a boy named Hay
Twas down in Arkansas
Then the organ played in a minor key
Down in the Arkansas
They played what will the harvest be?
Down in Arkansas
There was a video of the Oats-Hay wedding. But the picture was grainy.
164: Why? For giggles. I'm inclined to think a Shark/Human/Shark/Human Russian Doll would be funnier than my idea of getting anatomy lesson tats placed on the wrong side to confuse the med school students when they get my body.
166: The pun . . . it burns.
I am reminded at this point of a fellow I used to know who's name was Henry, only to give you an idea of what an individualist he was he spelt it HEN3RY. The 3 was silent, you see. Henry was financially independent having inherited his father's tar-and-feather business and was therefore able to devote his full time to such intellectual pursuits as writing. I particularly remember a heart-warming novel of his about a young necropheliac who finally achieved his boy-hood ambition by becoming coroner.
I saw Elvis in a U.F.O. sittin' there with Howard Hughes
I saw Elvis in a U.F.O. Jimmy Hoffa was in there too
I saw Elvis in a U.F.O. singing them rhythm and blues
And Liberace was there and he had on a pair of Imeldia Marcos shoes
Old Hennery. I always wondered what became of him.
Some people think that strolling by a river is romantic, but I don't know. Down by the Brazos, the banks of the Ohio, things just haven't worked out for some reason.
Necrophiliacs were originally on the Oregon anti-gay referendum, but they successfully lobbied the bigots to leave them off it. Victimless crime, you know.
Old Hennery. I always wondered what became of him.
Sadly he ended up in the Massachussetts state home for the bewildered.
I saw Elvis in a U.F.O. sittin' there with Howard Hughes
Doing the werewolves of London.
See, if fetuses have souls and rights, cadavers don't. Death has no rights. Every Christian must agree.
OK, fine. Just don't invite me to any of your parties for your cadaver friends. Call me a bigot, but I don't want to be around them.
He's my child, John, my sixteenth child. Not some cadaver. And he's still attached to Numbers 9 through 15.
When I look out into your eyes out there,
When I look out into your faces,
You know what I see?
I see a little bit of Elvis
In each and every one of you out there.
Elvis is everywhere
Elvis is everything
Elvis is everybody
Elvis is still the king
Rivers are great if you're dating a pre-dead cadaver.
MY LITTLE BABY LOVES SHORTNIN SHORTNIN
MY LITTLE BABY LOVES SHORTNIN BREAD
GRANNY
Rivers are great, but rivers can keep you
From dating all the cadavers you'd like to.
"Sisters and brothers, little Maid,
How many may you be?"
"How many? Seven in all," she said
And wondering looked at me.
"And where are they? I pray you tell."
She answered, "Seven are we;
And two of us at Conway dwell,
And two are gone to sea.
"Two of us in the church-yard lie,
My sister and my brother;
And, in the church-yard cottage, I
Dwell near them with my mother."
"You say that two at Conway dwell,
And two are gone to sea,
Yet ye are seven!--I pray you tell,
Sweet Maid, how this may be."
Then did the little Maid reply,
"Seven boys and girls are we;
Two of us in the church-yard lie,
Beneath the church-yard tree."
"You run about, my little Maid,
Your limbs they are alive;
If two are in the church-yard laid,
Then ye are only five."
Probably a good thing they didn't kick a kid in the middle of the string to death. I imagine that they thought that out carefully in advance.
a pre-dead cadaver
As opposed to a DIY cadaver, like Omie Wise, Laura Foster and Pretty Polly?
I myself am a pre-dead cadaver.
186: ''Gangue dos Profanadores. Mais violência em Cinco Pontas.'' Uma notícia de dar orgulho.
Each night I cry as I think of that shanty
And pretty Patches there watching the door
She dosn't know that I can't come to see her
Patches must think that I love her no more.
I hear a neighbor tellin my father
He said a girl name of Patches was found
Floating face down in that dirty old river
That flows by the coal yards in Old Shanty Town.
Patches oh what can I do
I swear I'll always love you
It may not be right But I'll join you tonight
Patches I'm coming to you.
Possible the worst song ever.
No one wanted to say it, Heebie. It's very brave of you to come out like that, especially to a group that uniformly hates cadavers.
Then ye are only five
Death-related folk songs are good for teaching kids math. Just like the A to Z Blues is neat for teaching the alphabet.
188: Awesome. Thanks, DS, I'd never seen that before.
Dead Teenager songs, include one necrophiliac song
Songs about shooting cute animals are good too.
192: Scorsese is a great way to learn Brazilian Portuguese. And DIY cadavers galore.
193: Best necrophilia song ever.
Dead rabbits rule.
Now I got a guy and his name is Dooley
He's my guy and I love him truly!
He's not good lookin', heaven knows!
But I'm wild about his crazy clothes!
He wears tan shoes with pink shoelaces
A polka-dot vest, and man, oh man!
He wears tan shoes with pink shoelaces,
And a big panama with a purple hat band!
Nós nos chamamos ''Coelhos Mortos'' para relembrar nosso sofrimento e conclamar os que sofrem a se unirem a nós mesmo estando apartados do nosso lar comum além-mar.
I got a girl, who's really crazy for me
She said, it's something 'bout a small town fashion thing
It ain't my boots or my cowboy hat, no
My baby loves me for my pearl snaps
(Pearl snaps) they really drive her wild
She can't resist my country western style
She's got the easy open-access down pat
My baby loves me for my pearl snaps
She likes drivin' down the back roads of my home town
She's turnin' up "The Hagg" and, baby, singin' out loud
I take her dancin' at the honky-tonk bar
She thinks that I'm some kind of cowboy movie star
I never knew the way I was would be where it's at
My baby loves me for my pearl snaps
(Pearl snaps) they really drive her wild
She can't resist my country western style
She's got the easy open-access down pat
My baby loves me for my pearl snaps
I looked at the sea, and it seemed to say,
I took your baby from you away
I heard a voice, cryin in the deep,
I got your baby in my endless sleep
As long as we're posting complete songs:
Little Tim McGuire loved to play with fire
Always hated water, never used to wash
Loved the smell of burning, of bonfires burning
Loved to play all day with his little tinder box
He chased the sparks as they flew into the evening
Hailed the flash of lightning and the burning sun
When I'm a man then I'll become a fireman
Then I can light a fire for everyone
When he was four they dressed him in a uniform
Sent him to a school with iron railings all around
Hated the school and the rules and the railings
Took his little tinder box and burnt it to the ground
Oh how he laughed and danced in the firelight
Oh how he laughed as the flames leapt to the sky
When I'm a man I'm going to be a fireman
Keep a bonfire burning until the day I die
When MacGuire grew older they made him wear a bowler
Set him to work in an office in the town
Hated the pens and the pins and the papers
Had just one ambition, to burn the office down
Little Tim McGuire loved to play with fire
Loved the blaze of roses and the golden grain
Loved the leaves of autumn, the red leaves of autumn
Loved a slender girl with a smile like a flame
The judge said at his trial, Your behaviour has been vile
You're a menace to society though you may think you're big
You have to go to prison - and then, what a commotion
For smoke and fire were pouring from the judge's wig
Oh how he laughed and danced in the courtroom
We took him down, we locked him in the darkness of the cell
Never saw the sun or heard the songbirds calling
Saw the prison bars and heard the prison bell
Then early one morning just as the day was dawning
A great wheel of fire spun skywards from the jail
The iron bars melted, the stone walls crumbled
No one in the prison lived to tell the tale
No one ever found Tim McGuire's little tinder box
No one ever found a trace of Tim McGuire
Perhaps he's up in heaven setting light to angels' haloes
Perhaps he's down in hell dancing round the fire
Seen a man standin over a dead dog lyin by the highway in a ditch
He's lookin down kinda puzzled pokin that dog with a stick
Got his car door flung open he's standin out on Highway 31
Like if he stood there long enough that dog'd get up and run
Struck me kinda funny seem kinda funny sir to me
At the end of every hard earned day people find some reason to believe
Now Mary Lou loved Johnny with a love mean and true
She said 'baby I'll work for you every day and bring my money home to you'
One day he up and left her and ever since that
She waits down at the end of that dirt road for young Johnny to come back
Struck me kinda funny seemed kind of funny sir to me
How at the end of every hard earned day people find some reason to believe
Take a baby to the river Kyle William they called him
Wash the baby in the water take away little Kyle's sin
In a whitewash shotgun shack an old man passes away
Take his body to the graveyard and over him they pray
Lord won't you tell us tell us what does it mean
Still at the end of every hard earned day people find some reason to believe
Congregation gathers down by the riverside
Preacher stands with his Bible groom stands waitin' for his bride
Congregation gone and the sun sets behind a weepin willow tree
Groom stands alone and watches the river rush on
so effortlessly
Lord and he's wonderin where can his baby be
Still at the end of every hard earned day people find some reason to believe
I met a little girl in Knoxville / A town we all know well / And every Sunday evening / Out in her home I'd dwell
We went to take an evening walk / About a mile from town / I picked a stick up off the ground / And knocked that fair girl down
She fell down on her bended knees / For mercy she did cry / Oh Willy dear, don't kill me here / I'm not prepared to die
She never spoke another word / I only beat her more / Until the ground around me / Within her blood did flow
I took her by her golden curls / I dragged her round and round / Then threw her in the river / That flows through Knoxville town
Go there, go there, you Knoxville girl / With dark and roving eyes / Go there, go there, you Knoxville girl / You can never be my wife
I rolled and tumbled the whole night through / My dreams were living hell / And then they came from Knoxville / And carried me to jail
I'm here to waste my life away / And time is passing slow / Because I killed that Knoxville girl / The girl that I loved so