sharing the [...] iTunes library
Oh man. I know it shouldn't, but the fact that my iTunes library is now sprinkled liberally with a bunch of Celtic New Age crap really does bother me. I never should have introduced her to Usenet.
But why do people need to do this? Can't she have her own iTunes library? I thought that one of the benefits of the new digital age--which I love, even more than GA--was that it made separation or replication easy.
Joint e-mail????????? Shivbunny and I don't even share the same computer.
Share a joint email account? What? Are you insane?
My (admittedly, insane) sister-in-law took over my brothers e-mail address and now is in charge of "Bobbie_geebie@yahoo.com".
We don't do it, but I could see the point of, forex, a joint parenting email: MR&MRSBreath@hotmail.com as what you give the school, and sports teams, and the kids' friends' parents, and maybe for arranging socializing with couples you know as couples, so everything logistical would go to the same joint address. But joint personal email generally is freaky.
It's best not to share a computer (no marriage for poor people!), but I can see having one Netflix account and the Ex and I, in addition to our personal email accounts, had a shared account that we used for I don't remember what (recruiting barely legal thirds, maybe). Mostly, given he peevishness of people in the article, the main point seems to be that some people have no business getting married.
Can't she have her own iTunes library?
More hassle than it's worth, given that we agree on 85% of our musical tastes. I'm not looking to solve the problem, Tim; I just want to complain about it. Fucking Enya.
If your problem is that you're fucking Enya, maybe it'll be all good if you set Roberta up with Elvis.
Jesus McQueen can explain to us what it's like to have a shared email address.
the main point seems to be that some people have no business getting married.
Emerson's Army grows by one.
Oddly, I have the password to shivbunny's e-mail but he's not getting mine.
I could see having a shared email address that just forwarded copies of messages to each of your individual addresses to give to the school or whatever but a .forward file is not the same as an actual email account! Even then, I think that's only if there are kids involved.
I'm not looking to solve the problem, Tim; I just want to complain about it.
Ever since Mrs. Apo left the message on a thread telling you to come to bed, I'm more or less in the tank for her. Complain away, but for now my official opinion is that you probably need more Enya in your diet.
since people now associate technology with creating an identity.
This is a very nice point. There's also the long-term accumulation of this stuff: it's one thing to have a box of old photos and letters in the garage, but then there's your flickr account, your facebook page, all that helpful metadata (dates and times, tags, comments, etc).
It was a very VERY big deal when I told Jammies about the existence of Heebie.
I can't even imagine what it was like when you told him that his name was "Jammies".
I'm still vaguely disturbed about when I mentioned to Buck that I was referring to him as Mr. Breath, and he asked to be called 'Buck' instead.
It was a very VERY big deal when I told Jammies about the existence of Heebie.
I had the same problem with my gf.
"Who is this HEEBIE?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!"
I call him Jammies in real life, too.
LB:
He requested "Buck Naked," didnt he?
19: Tell her to email me if she'd like pictures of Heebie's ass. As a woman, she's entitled.
I'm glad I haven't come up with a pseudonym for my fiancee. It seems like everyone's pseudonyms are highly undignified. What happened to the good old conventions of Dr. W--------- and A Certain Mrs. T-------?
22: Arcanely derivative therefrom. Actually, he asked for BeachBuck as even more arcanely derivative therefrom, but I wouldn't go for it.
Tell her to email me if she'd like pictures of Heebie's ass. As a woman, she's entitled.
Will do.
She wants to be "Druggirlgonebad." But, I told her that was too long.
I've encountered a few people who have joint email addresses with their spouses, and it really does seem freaky. The SO has finally got herself a new computer, so she's no longer (typically) using mine, and we're both happier for it. She is a little miffed that I don't link to her LiveJournal page, but c'mon, it's LiveJournal.
Some years ago, my then-employer did some work for this company on the topic of "fixed mobile convergence". The idea was that you could wean the public off of fixed line phones (then a monopoly of France Telecom) by providing the right kind of mobile environment, including base stations in the home. The company thought that the "one number, one household" paradigm was obsolete and that "one number, one person" would be a great selling point.
Turns out that the focus groups hated it. Specifically, the married female participants hated it. The idea that their husbands could receive phone calls without fear of the wife picking up the phone was considered out of the question.
Mind you, this was before mobile phones were ubiquitous. That horse has sort of left the barn by now.
If I've correctly figured out Buck's real name, that's actually pretty funny.
We use each others computers all the time. Occasionally, we will use each other's email accounts to communicate with mutual friends. It isn't a problem.
Wait, that doesn't disqualify her from receiving heebie's ass picture, does it?
She is a little miffed that I don't link to her LiveJournal page, but c'mon, it's LiveJournal.
Now I'm miffed.
Mind you, this was before mobile phones were ubiquitous. That horse has sort of left the barn by now.
But, doesn't every couple have the same phone bill still?
And, if not, cell phone bills end up telling the tale of the affair later.
Funny that people are young enough to see the problem this way. We got a joint email address about a dozen years ago, and its descendant, on a different provider, still exists. But even on dialup days, everybody in the family soon had their own, and now I have several different under my pseud & one under my name for business and, as I say, still the joint. "Privacy" has always been delt with by having separate computers, but I build 'em from junk and could have ten running if need be. My daughter's, son's and my itunes are all on different computers.
29: If you know my last name, the arcane derivation is from that -- we have the same last name. Firstname doesn't enter into it.
28: Specifically, the married female participants hated it. The idea that their husbands could receive phone calls without fear of the wife picking up the phone was considered out of the question.
That is so depressing that I am choosing not to believe it. Sordid, man.
Everyone knows if you're having an affair you should only communicate via random payphones and handwritten notes (that are later burned).
No notes, Brock. No notes. They always get found.
I have a great collection of notes. People say the most amazing things.
Now I'm miffed.
Sorry. Nothing personal, just, you know, standards.
But, doesn't every couple have the same phone bill still?
IIANM, French data protection laws dictate that the final digits of the telephone numbers in itemized bills be truncated.
The French are so sophisticated.
If you know my last name, the arcane derivation is from that -- we have the same last name.
"Angel"?
Sorry. Nothing personal, just, you know, standards.
I'm gonna add your SO to my flist and we can have private, friends-locked posts about the assets of LiveJournal.
That is so depressing that I am choosing not to believe it.
It's true nonetheless. French attitudes toward marital fidelity are a tad more, um, laissez-faire.
How on earth is "Buck" derived from "Semaphore"?!
38: Given the archival nature of email, I'd expect old emails to be half your practice.
Heebie's so cute when she's miffed. And even cuter when she's miffing.
I'm not sure if shivbunny knows his nickname is shivbunny. I know he lurks sometimes (we had a tiff once over something apostropher said to me because shivbunny used to be prone to occasional bouts of irrational jealousy), but I'm not sure if he's lurked since the nickname popped up. Probably.
I can't believe I clicked over here to link this article and it was already posted. But seriously, this is kind of the Sunday Styles-ization of the WSJ, isn't it? Same exaggerated anecdotes?
Ms. De Chellis likes to use the DVD-by-mail service to rent romantic comedies. To sneak in the science-fiction and anime he prefers, Mr. De Chellis has taken to covert early-morning updates of the Netflix queue.
Waking up at 5 a.m., while his wife and daughter are still asleep, he pads into the darkened kitchen, logs onto his computer and changes the Netflix order to put his favorite movies on top. He knows the warehouse ships the movies by about 7 a.m., so by the time his wife realizes what he's done, it'll be too late. "It's not grounds for murder, but it is irritating," Ms. De Chellis says.
we had a tiff once over something apostropher said to me
Really? I'm touched.
Looks like grounds for murder to me.
All of this is suddenly reminding me of early-90s era Prodigy, when it was routine for women to refer to their significant others as "DH." I wonder how much of that convention can be chalked up to demographic homogeneity.
What's the big deal about joint email accounts? They're helpful for getting confirmation of joint purchases, planning holidays, etc. in the same way that a joint bank account is useful for paying utility bills. Neither of them imply that you don't also have your own account(s), where you do most of your stuff.
32. But, doesn't every couple have the same phone bill still?
Cala is cute when she's tiffing. She's OK on miffing, but not great.
DH stands for demographic homogeneity?
Emersom is cute when he's riffing. But gross when he's sniffing.
My parents have a joint e-mail account. They check it once a week or so.
routine for women to refer to their significant others as "DH."
Still routine on LiveJournal.
DH is still in use in some circles, as is its opposite number, SWMBO.
This makes me insane: My dad has a cellphone that he carries with him, but leaves off. He has a beeper, too. To call him, you must page him and he'll call you back. See, he doesn't like to drain the batteries on his cell phone.
Still routine on LiveJournal.
LiveJournal is FINE. Who wants to rumble?
That's a pretty good way to deal with the paranoia of being tracked by your phone all the time, too (Assuming it's a one-way pager).
People have an unreasonable prejudice against solvents like ether and toluene. A good sniff dissolves some of the restrictive integuments in your brain and makes you all loosy-goosy.
62: I was not casting aspersions; simply noting that usage is still widespread in LJ-land.
My wife has recently fallen prey to one of the DH groups. DH, DS, DD. It's bizarre.
Wait till he's on his deathbed and then don't call him. That will show him. "Oh, that's terrible, mom. I just assumed that his phone was off."
What's the big deal about joint email accounts?
I feel about them the same way that I do about leaving a phone message with a family member of the person I want to talk to. I never quite trust that the message is going to get to the person I want to reach. I also feel a lot more constrained in my tone, even though the only people I know with joint accounts are actually couples where I am friendly with both partners.
I don't know. I don't feel the same constraints when I write to my friends' individual accounts, even though I do so with the full expectation that they may forward to their spouses, or have the spouse reading over their shoulder. Somehow that feels different.
(Confidential to Heebie: Dear Husband. Or D*mn Husband, as the case may be.)
I was not casting aspersions; simply noting that usage is still widespread in LJ-land.
I'll let it go this time. But I'm watching you.
Wait till he's on his deathbed and then don't call him. That will show him.
Nah, I intend for my parents to outlive me.
I just learned that "bonhomme" is French usage for "husband" preferred by wives in "a comfortable and tolerant" but realistic relationship. Sounds like DH.
I used to really dislike my wife using my computer. She used to get grumpy about it. Now, she has a shiny new laptop, faster and nicer than my computer, and, amusingly, she's way more protective of it than I ever was of mine.
The Enya thing would particularly annoy me.
My sister-in-law and her husband seem to share the same email account, which is damned weird.
Can I have your IPod when you go? Your parents wouldn't appreciate it.
It came up on a thread on Languagehat.
Okay, so what's DL and DD?
DD was my great-aunt's dog. It stood for either "Darling Dog" or "Devil Dog" depending on the dog's opinion of you.
But I don't know what DL is. I'm used to it standing for "Dave Littlefield" or "disabled list".
The idea that their husbands could receive phone calls without fear of the wife picking up the phone was considered out of the question.
This is reminding me that when I was strategizing with a guy friend about a surprise for his girlfriend, I had to remind him to delete the "Received Calls" log in his cell phone in case she scrolled through it and asked why he was getting eight calls a day from the same number.
(Why she felt entitled to do that is another question.)
68. I feel about them the same way that I do about leaving a phone message with a family member of the person I want to talk to.
Agreed, but if you want to email either of us personally, you'd use our personal accounts. The joint one is for business stuff we both need to access. Everybody's talking like they were only allowed one account.
I'm used to it standing for "Dave Littlefield" or "disabled list".
Yeah, it took me a long time not to read DH as designated hitter.
Crap! I forgot to include the part of the post where I made a joke about how having a blog with your spouse might mean that your in-laws start reading your blog and it will cramp your style to the point that you have to seek out some cock-joke blog where you can write pseudonymously.
Meanwhile, AWB is closing up her blog because if its popularity continues to grow her anonymity will inevitably be punctured.
How often do people do that? I mostly read political blogs where that doesn't happen.
It would be a shame to end up like her but without the six-figure book advance.
Jesus McQueen can explain to us what it's like to have a shared email address.
Actually, I can't. Sharing an address seemed to make sense for vague reasons when I set it up, but we just ended up not using it together, which reinforces my feeling that separate accounts are the right and natural way of things. Apart from that, all the tech stuff in the household is mine mine mine, because my wife is a technophobe, and that suits me just fine.
One of my dad's cousins once had a dog named FD. The D stood for "dog."
I once opened gmail to find emails from Eekbeat's dad, which totally freaked me out until I realized I was looking at her gmail account, out of which she hadn't signed the night before.
Not sure why it should seem weird to get email from the SO's dad, but it did.
Not sure why it should seem weird to get email from the SO's dad, but it did.
Stanley:
Did the emails start out with "My Little Princess,"?
or have "xoxooxoxo" in the subject line?
If you must have a joint account -- in addition to your individual accounts, of course, because having only a joint account is empirically insane -- you really should make sure all of your friends know that the joint account is joint and the address of your individual account. Because, after she files for divorce, your wife will not be interested in reading the email from your best friends commiserating with you about those darn women causing you so much grief. And your friend might not have wanted his wife to read the use of the term "women" in the plural.
Hypothetically
90: no, it was directions and a menu that corresponded to a brunch that Eek and I were to attend, so the email was plausibly for me.
Ms. De Chellis likes to use the DVD-by-mail service to rent romantic comedies. To sneak in the science-fiction and anime he prefers, Mr. De Chellis has taken to covert early-morning updates of the Netflix queue.
This sure seems likely to aggravate the vexacious "My Tivo think's I'm gay" problem.
Because, after she files for divorce, your wife will not be interested in reading the email from your best friends commiserating with you about those darn women causing you so much grief. And your friend might not have wanted his wife to read the use of the term "women" in the plural.
Hypothetically
Hypothetically, the Wife might not be interested in reading those emails. But, the Wife's lawyer would be very interested in reading those emails. Hypothetically.
We had an issue at work where a bunch of people's LJ's were easily uncovered because they'd been mouthing off about some of us. Which could have been fun to read except the journals were incredibly lame.
Neither of them imply that you don't also have your own account(s), where you do most of your stuff.
Sure, but still, when someone has a joint email account set up to do practical business with their partner and uses it to conduct an ongoing conversation with, say, me, it's just weird.
89: "Out of which she hadn't signed" is definitely my favorite construction of the day.
The people in the article seem mostly like idiots. A computer each is the most sensible thing.
A computer each, and a chicken in every pot.
Pot and a computerized chicken for everybody!
A shared Netflix account makes sense because, you know, people watch television together. Same can't be said for, say, email. At least in my household, we don't gather around the laptop with a mug of cocoa for the nightly reading of the email.
You don't print yours out, hand-illuminate the capitals, and bind it between leather covers?
Funny. I guess everyone's different.
You don't print yours out, hand-illuminate the capitals, and bind it between leather covers?
I do this for every unfogged comment.
A shared Netflix account does not make sense if you can't agree on a queue like reasonable adults and instead sneak down at 5:30am to change the selections before your spouse wakes up.
Of course, you can set up different lists within the same account, if you can't agree on managing one list. We've got the kids their own list -- if they want a movie, they can remember to send their last one back, and manage their own list.
We've been having trouble finding a bank whose online service will allow multiple logins to the same joint checking account, and associated online banking features. "Why don't you share your password?" says the bank, and they don't seem to understand why we might not like to.
So are the people in the article just idiots, or what?
You don't print yours out, hand-illuminate the capitals, and bind it between leather covers?
I don't, but the wife does.
OMG. May I date your wife?
Despite years of preparation, now that this moment has finally come, I find myself speechless.
Dear god, no. Separate computers, separate cell-phone bills, separate email accounts. It weirds me out when I see a friend on IM and write, "Hi [Friend]!" and the response is "No, it's [Friend's Wife]!" Get your own damn account!
My previous paramour (married, but not to me) routinely deleted our text messages from his cell but the bill showed all the calls....
110: Eh, Buck would get all cranky about it even if she does illuminate manuscripts.
Every once in a while, I will be using Snark's computer, or he will be using mine, and we'll have left IM running, leading to a situation like that in 111, but I think that's sort of different. We certainly have separate computers and accounts. On the other hand, Snark has no cell phone, because he is a punk-ass punk, so people will often call him on mine.
My previous paramour (married, but not to me) routinely deleted our text messages from his cell but the bill showed all the calls....
I never quite understand why people don't pay for another phone on a separate account. Is it that it would be hard to hide or, alternatively, explain two phones?
My mom (I thought weirdly) recently asked me for contact information for my roommates in case she had to get ahold of me in case of an emergency if she couldn't reach me on my cell phone or by IM or by email. That makes no sense to me. What would they do if my mom called? Try to reach me on my cell phone or by IM or by email.
They might know where you were: at the pub, out with MF, engaged in subversive acts against the state, etc. It doesn't seem unreasonable to me, I guess.
We've been having trouble finding a bank whose online service will allow multiple logins to the same joint checking account, and associated online banking features.
WaMu will do this. But now all the junk mail goes to Josh, because they can't seem to handle the idea of a joint bank account, and OF COURSE the guy's name has to go first. He even gets offers for home equity loans when his name isn't on the title of the house, which pleases him to no end but seriously pisses me off. Sexist bastards.
As for the "issues" in the article, they're pretty much nonexistent for us: shared home computer (with due discretion with any porn viewed), non-shared e-mail, my Netflix (though I take requests), my blog (because he doesn't blog at all, though he'll get an account on the new blog should he so desire).
The furthest I'd be willing to go down the shared e-mail route would be an alias that sent to both of us, but so far people are still able to cope with the idea that we're individuals. The most contentious issue has been whether he gets root on my box, in exchange for paying half the colo fees.
My mother still wants to know my schedule just so she knows where I am even if she has no idea where the classroom actually is.
I think Bank of America ties the login to the person, and then links the accounts the person controls to the login. shivbunny and I both have our own passwords for the joint account.
It's not so much that we both can't access the joint account with our own logins, it's that she can't see or modify the bill payments I set up, and vice-versa. A lot of the online features aren't tied to the bank account, they're tied to the login.
whether he gets root on my box
Hott!
Caroline Starry LeBlanc, 30, of Houston, says her email is accessible to her husband as a sign of trust and transparency. Her husband, Jared, feels the same, and says she's welcome to rifle through his inbox, Viagra spam and all.
That's inane. Do these people open each other's mail, too?
I think the only high-tech issue in marriage is that it's too easy to spend one's entire life online and not actually do stuff with one's partner. Ah, the joys of parallel laptopping.
On the up side, fighting via im is way better than fighting in person.
My and Roberta's emails are accessible to one another, since the passwords are saved by the computer. Because, y'know, who cares? Lord knows there isn't anything in the other inbox that either of us wants to read, much less something that we'd want to hide from one another.
Do these people open each other's mail, too
Speaking for myself, not personal letters (because opening is half the joy), but bills and junk mail and the like, sure. Personal letters account for maybe 0.5% of all the mail that arrives at the house.
fighting via im is way better than fighting in person
Even if you're still parallel laptopping on the couch?
126: See, this is like the "women don't want separate phones" thing. Why would you want to open bills or junk mail that aren't for you, and why would you want to answer the phone if you don't have to? People are crazy.
127: Yes. Keeps the kid from overhearing, keeps us from yelling, and prevents that annoying "I didn't say that" "you just did!" nonsense. Plus adds in a little bit of lag time, which is helpful.
Why would you want to open bills or junk mail that aren't for you
So they get disposed of or handled immediately, rather than forming gigantic piles. Anyhow, a bill only "isn't for me" in the loosest sense, given that they all get paid out of the joint account.
they all get paid out of the joint account
You shouldn't be paying your bills with the money you've squirreled away for weed.. You should be buying weed with that money.
Sheesh, apo. You used to be cool back before this third kid ruined you.
123: What's insane about is that it's not all that hard to have a separate e-mail account.
I roll all my joints with Roberta's junk mail.
The separate computer thing seems strange to me. Laptops, sure, but a desktop presumes a desk; do most couples have separate desks at home? Plus, there's lots of shared stuff like iPhoto libraries and household-related files.
I am right there with 129. It's not that you want to open junk mail and bills that aren't yours, it's that you're taking care of a household task that is much more along the lines of taking out the trash than anything else.
We have a computer room with two separate desks. So he can play games while I procrastinate.
129: Sure, the person who pays the bills opens all of 'em. Not really a fan of the joint account, myself.
133: Separate desktop accounts. Yay Apple! Sharing a desk fucking sucks.
This is like the pseudonymity thing. It might be better for me if all my, um, idiosyncratic writings weren't so easily traced back to my actual name and location (hello, Child Protective Services!), but it's just too damn much work to maintain it so I don't bother to try. Similarly, as often as I call home and ask Roberta to look up the phone number or driving directions or what have you that somebody emailed me last week, I would never, ever be able to remember all the new passwords my "privacy" would require.
Separate desktop accounts
Pain in the ass. I don't want to have to log on and off my home computer.
I don't want to have to log on and off my home computer.
You're on crack.
I'm on many different things at different times, but crack is not one of them.
Jeez, I even know Ex's and Exbeforelast's email passwords, and I'm pretty sure the Ex knows mine. In the days before mobile email, sometimes you'd have to call and ask the other person to check your email for you; no biggie. Ex and I shared a computer too, and now I'm wondering how the hell we managed that, but that was before the days of the blog.
In the days before mobile email
Do you mean email on your phone? Have you never heard of plans, or writing things down?
I'm guessing the difference in opinion here may come from the fact that my email is boring as hell. Any of y'all who want to read it are perfectly welcome to come to my house and do so. It would be your loss.
Have you never heard of plans, or writing things down?
You're on crack.
133: Most of the people I know don't even have desktops anymore. The wife and I each have our own laptop and our own office -- well, she has her own office, I work in the bedroom. Then, later, we convene in the living room, laptops in tow. This seems to me to be the norm, at least among grad students.
Have you never heard of plans, or writing things down?
Suppose, turdbrain, that your significant other (you can imagine, I know you can) is waiting to hear from an editor about a draft or assignment, and is out and will make her plans depending on whether the editor wants something by tomorrow or next week.
That strikes me as bad planning on her part.
The brave new world of technology also means that this morning I got an e-mail from a brokerage saying that a check was about to be sent out from an old account. I went into a total tizzy trying to figure out why an estate that has long since been settled is suddenly issuing a check.
Turns out it was the brokerage's mistake; they had my e-mail address as the contact for a trustee account that the deceased has been part of. Now long since handed off to the other trustees, of course. You'd think they'd make sure the e-mail addresses ported over.
That strikes me as bad planning on her part.
It would almost be redundant to call you "turdbrain" again.
True, Apple makes separate desktop accounts easy to manage. I should probably appreciate my wife's Luddite inclinations sparing me even that.
In the old days, when you would get information like that by (landliny) phone, of course, it would be no big deal, because you don't have to go snooping around in someone else's private life just to answer the phone.
Is 151 a response to me? If so, I have no idea what it's responding to.
I can see it, a bit. When I first got a cell, I felt deeply annoyed by always, always being accessible to people. Getting a call while out doing something felt like an invasion of privacy. But Jesus Christ, Ben, it's 2007. Welcome to the surveillance age. The rest of us have quit kicking against the pricks.
Since giving out one's email password is undesirable, if one knows that one's actions will depend on the result of an email, it's unwise to leave the only place where one can access that email. If, on the other hand, the information is going to come via the phone to your home, then there's no reason not to go out (assuming you can be reached *some*how), because it's not undesirable to allow others to answer the phone.
Wait, I guess I had no idea what Ben was talking about.
it's unwise to leave the only place where one can access that email
I yearn for the simplicity of Ben's life.
Laptops, sure, but a desktop presumes a desk; do most couples have separate desks at home?
Yeah, we have two desks. We're at them now. He does lots of work stuff from home.
Plus, there's lots of shared stuff like iPhoto libraries and household-related files.
All the computers (5 of them - the three kids who can read all have their own, the youngest uses his when he's at work) are networked, so that's not a problem. We shared out in arbitrary fashion the household tasks and deal with them separately though.
I just read recently that desktops are more environmentally friendly than laptops, so I'm currently feeling smug.
I can access email wherever there's a web browser or ssh client. But in the situation described, ogged's ex could only access email in certain locales, which is why she had to call him.
When I first got a cell, I felt deeply annoyed by always, always being accessible to people. Getting a call while out doing something felt like an invasion of privacy. But Jesus Christ, Ben, it's 2007. Welcome to the surveillance age. The rest of us have quit kicking against the pricks.
Replace "ben" with "Scott" and you'll have yourself a target. I have a cell-phone that I activate for December, then it sits there, a paperweight, the rest of the year. You may have stopped kicking pricks, but I haven't stopped being one.
Which is how I feel when the cell-phone-necessary crowd starts harping about how inconvenient it is for them that they don't have instant access to me.
When I first got a cell, I felt deeply annoyed by always, always being accessible to people. Getting a call while out doing something felt like an invasion of privacy.
You people don't just turn off your ringers?
Repeat after me: Cell phones allow you to call out whenever you want. That makes them wonderful. Anything else you can ignore until you "get home" and feel like dealing with it.
I have a cell-phone that I activate for December
I have you beat, Mr. Accessible.
Unless it's me calling. Don't ignore me.
giving out one's email password is undesirable
If you're living a dastardly life, this is true, otherwise, not necessarily so. Especially not so if you know the person who has your password won't look at things unless instructed to do so.
it's unwise to leave the only place where one can access that email
Thanks, master of your domain. Imagine this scenario: grad student has to attend weekly lab meeting; after lab meeting, colleagues suggest getting a drink. If grad student has to finish piece for editor by tomorrow, she has to pass on drinks, otherwise not. I'm sorry if they never invite you out for drinks, Benjamin.
If people know you have a cell phone, they will be just as pissed that you ignore incoming calls until your convenience as they would be if you didn't have one at all.
I just read recently that desktops are more environmentally friendly than laptops, so I'm currently feeling smug.
How's that?
If you're living a dastardly life, this is true, otherwise, not necessarily so.
See? Ogged understands. The rest of you should stop cheating on your partners.
They only started inviting me out for drinks after I moved away, the assholes.
Were there no computers near the lab?
If people know you have a cell phone, they will be just as pissed that you ignore incoming calls until your convenience as they would be if you didn't have one at all.
Yeah, but chances are you won't ignore it at key meet-up times. If you're getting together with your friend and they haven't shown up yet, you might turn your ringer on. Or if you are picking your friend up at the airport; turn that ringer on.
That's the only reason you need a cellphone - to coordinate meeting people in case of last-minute problems, and ESPECIALLY when travelling.
Were there no computers near the lab?
Yeah, but lab meetings aren't always in lab, or any number of reasons someone can't check email, but can make a quick phone call. Now you're being difficult.
It's true. I'm a broken, bitter man, who hates the idea of companionship.
If people know you have a cell phone, they will be just as pissed that you ignore incoming calls until your convenience as they would be if you didn't have one at all.
That's just not true. Nobody sane expects every call to a cell phone to be answered.
If people know you have a cell phone, they will be just as pissed that you ignore incoming calls until your convenience as they would be if you didn't have one at all.
This is not true. Unless you have really codependent friends, I guess.
Sure, for any particular cell call, no biggie. But I'm talking about a standing policy of ignoring.
If you'd called me, Ficke, I could have told you that I was about to pwn you.
But I'm talking about a standing policy of ignoring.
Well, don't do it that much. Imitate the way a normal person might sometimes answer, sometimes not.
Maybe a holdover from joint email days, but we can read each other's email, and usually don't, but still, can.
165 - I don't know! I've got more kids than apo, I can't remember a damn thing these days. I'm sure google can help.
Lemieux doesn't have a cell either. So far, it hasn't resulted in any mix-ups, but he's notoriously reliable. What I don't like about cell phones is that they enable people to be flaky about meeting up. "Oh, whoops, I totally didn't realize what time it is! I'll call you when I get to the area, which could be anywhere between half an hour and two hours from now."
161: I have you beat, Mr. Accessible.
Well, if you need to make plans for Philadelphia and D.C. while moving between California, Texas, Louisiana, and Mississippi, you'd need one for a month too. I simply refuse to believe that anyone's life is consistently as complicated as mine is every December. Because people can not live like that.
171: Nobody sane expects every call to a cell phone to be answered.
And as everyone knows, every person who might have your cell number is sane.
And since SEK has trouble on the phone, it seems like it should be possible to get a device that only sends and receives txt messages. That exists, right?
We have a shared e-mail address, which is no big deal. I'm kind of surprised at how vehement people are about the idea. But maybe the rest of you just get a lot more interesting e-mail than we do.
AWB is completely right in 178. Everything that supposedly advances reliability actually just provides more excuses.
Everything that supposedly advances reliability actually just provides more excuses.
No one supposes that cell phones advance reliability. My friends who were flaky before cell phone days remain flaky, and reliable friends remain reliable. At least now I know roughly when to expect the flaky ones.
183: The hearing-impaired community just gets fucked twelve ways to Sunday, don't they?
And as everyone knows, every person who might have your cell number is sane.
You're allowed to roll your eyes at these people.
What I don't like about cell phones is that they enable people to be flaky about meeting up.
The problem is the flakiness. The cell phones are great when reliable people have truly reasonable delays. Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.
185: Let me rephrase that: such a device may exist, but if it does, I don't want to know about it.
Maybe cell phones don't increase flakiness, but they naturalize totally unforgivable situations. If my friend leaves me sitting in a bar by myself for an hour, I'm going home and not speaking to that person again. But if they call me and say, "I'm almost there! I got caught up watching a street performer! And then there was a shiny thing! So sorry!" I can get annoyed, but I can't just go home and write them off without sounding like a prick.
If my friend leaves me sitting in a bar by myself for an hour, I'm going home and not speaking to that person again.
Uhhhh....
I've found personally that it just means that plans tend to be less nailed down and more spontaneous.
I can get annoyed, but I can't just go home and write them off without sounding like a prick.
They'll think you sound like a prick because you're delivering a message that they don't want to hear, namely that they treated you badly. You standing up for yourself is between you, yourself, and you. (And me. Because I'm entitled to comment on anything anyone ever did ever.)
it should be possible to get a device that only sends and receives txt messages. That exists, right?
Yeah, they're called two-way pagers.
AWB doesn't really mean "naturalize", and her reaction strikes me as a bit excessive—after all, what if there were, say, a really long train delay or something?
189: Well, certainly not going out with them. People do this a lot, but if they at least call me, I can walk around the neighborhood instead of sitting in whatever skeezy Hell's Kitchen bar they picked out, waving off drunks and trying to look occupied.
If you'd called me, Ficke
...and Ficke if you called me, you could caaaalll meeee ogged.
193: Fine, there are such things. But most of the time, with my friends, it's something like, "Oh, we just couldn't get out the door! It was like we were behind a force field of laziness!"
I have a friend who's left me waiting like that literally dozens of times. Some people are flaky! Live and let live!
197: Ah, flaky is tolerable but grumpy's not. Curiouser and curiouser.
196: My best friend is flaky like that. I've taken to lying to her about when she needs to be ready, though this has resulted in an arms race of sorts as she catches on to my ruse. We're now up to about an hour and a half buffer for time-sensitive things like plays. Mildly annoying, but you make do.
I also don't mind drinking alone in bars, so that's not a huge downside to me.
Well, your friends suck. That was easy.
Fine, there are such things. But most of the time, with my friends, it's something like, "Oh, we just couldn't get out the door! It was like we were behind a force field of laziness!"
vs
I have a friend who's left me waiting like that literally dozens of times. Some people are flaky! Live and let live!
There's not one right way to handle flaky people, as long as your true to your temperament. You're allowed only make plans that they seem able to keep, or stop making plans with them altogether. They're imposing on you; it's not vindictive to take care of yourself.
I have an extremely flaky friend and I almost don't really think it's worth the effort of trying to get together with her.
Obviously, Ben, the problem isn't that she's flaky, but that she's not hot enough to make you put up with it.
I don't mind drinking alone in certain bars. My super-flaky friends really like this one hellhole of an alkie dumping ground where I simply do not feel safe by myself.
Flakiness is one of those things you learn to accommodate in the people you really love. But if it happens a lot with a new acquaintance, I tend to assume that person doesn't value me or my feelings as a friend. Half an hour late is one thing, but showing up an hour late, or not at all? What am I supposed to think?
Oh, she's plenty hot.
I guess that's why you said "almost."
I grant that a flaky new acquaintance would try my patience.
Waiting for hot people gives them too much power.
If you're living a dastardly life, this is true, otherwise, not necessarily so.
See you in Gitmo, guilty guy.
Especially not so if you know the person who has your password won't look at things unless instructed to do so.
Sure, and this is true 99% of the time. But even good people do bad things in relationships sometimes. Realizing that, and trusting them anyway, is of course part of the game for all sane people.
My super-flaky friends really like this one hellhole of an alkie dumping ground where I simply do not feel safe by myself.
Tough shit. Stop meeting them there.
catherine and I manage to stay friends even though the quality she most dislikes in people is tardiness whereas I can't seem to dispel this horrible force field of laziness that afflicts me whenever I'd like to be somewhere.
Tough shit. Stop meeting them there.
Just because Bitch said it more concisely and more quotably, doesn't mean any of you are off the hook for ignoring my 191 and 201.
211: Waiting for hot people gives them too much power, but what about when hot people wait for hot people?
Hot person on hot person waiting is a problem in contemporary society, to be sure.
I just read recently that desktops are more environmentally friendly than laptops, so I'm currently feeling smug.
How's that?
Batteries mostly, I assume.
Sort of on topic, I'm having trouble coming up with a reason for keeping our land line now that we have cell phones. Anyone?
a reason for keeping our land line now that we have cell phones
They print your name in this big book. And it's like you're famous!
Depends on how many meaningful conversations you have by phone, Jesus. Long talks on a cell phone are less than satisfying (I don't have a landline, and I do miss it sometimes).
Depends on how many meaningful conversations you have by phone, Jesus.
I think most people just pray to him.
"He placed the receiver in my hand,
Religion in my heart.
I can ring up my Jesus...."
212: Oh, I was just summing up. You were right before I was.
I'm often late these days, more's the pity. But I certainly don't expect people to wait around for me anywhere other than the comfort of their own homes (or wherever they prefer to be). Lateness kind of means having to be flexible about destination sometimes.
I also miss the landline. The only time I make calls to catch up is when I'm walking somewhere, i.e., when my environment is likely loud and distracting, and the length of the call is capped by the distance to my errand. I don't love talking on the phone, but I don't mind chatting with an old friend once every month or two to keep up. I happen to have a perfect, sunny spot for chatting that only needs a landline.
I'm having trouble coming up with a reason for keeping our land line now that we have cell phones. Anyone?
It doesn't cost us much and it keeps the junk calls in one place - I wouldn't want them calling my mobile. (I feel like I'm scoring a small victory when people phone up and ask to speak to Mr or Mrs T and I can say, "no, no one here by those names". (I'm Ms T, he's Mr P.))
Oh, I was just summing up. You were right before I was.
Your contribution was useful. Everyone else is in trouble. BIIIIG trouble.
it keeps the junk calls in one place - I wouldn't want them calling my mobile.
You're in England, right? I'm pretty sure this is illegal in the US.
I turned the ringer off on my landline because it was all junk calls, but I call out from it for the unlimited long distance.
Illegal to call people's mobiles? That's reassuring, I'll find out.
Awhile back my landline went out for about 3 months. I was perfectly happy. It annoyed the few friends I had left, but soon they forgot me too. With a phone I couldn't have gotten rid of them as easily. Heebie called me hundreds of times from the mall, but I foiled her.
I'm still hoarse from shouting for Emerson. Sometimes on a still night you can hear me on the moors. Or in the alley. Those two cats you thought were fucking last night? That was me calling, "Emerson! Emerson!"
Illegal to call people's mobiles? That's reassuring, I'll find out.
Telemarketers aren't allowed to call cell phones. If they're using automated dialers, at least (which almost all of them do).
Resolved, and thank you, Mineshaft. Neither of us talks much on the phone anyway, so bye-bye landline.
Telemarketers aren't allowed to call cell phones. If they're using automated dialers, at least (which almost all of them do).
Right. Although, maddeningly, my hometown newspaper did call. I looked all over the FCC and FTC website as well as my state attorney general's page to confirm that unfortunately, yes, if they use live humans to dial individual numbers, it's legal. So I put my cell # on the Do Not Call list.
Well, if you need to make plans for Philadelphia and D.C. while moving between California, Texas, Louisiana, and Mississippi, you'd need one for a month too.
Well, at least you can cross Louisiana off the list this year. That should simplify things a bit.
230: The one catch about having no landline is that if your cell gets lost or cell service goes down, you're fucked. Also if you have to do a job interview or something. And it's kind of nice to have a number you can give, say, the pizza delivery place that *isn't* your cell.
233: Oh, plus babysitters. How is the sitter going to call you on your cell if you don't have a landline? *Probably* the sitter has a cell of their own, but they might not.
Everybody has a cell phone. Even the apostropher; he just doesn't realize it. And you can always get a prepaid phone to have around the house for the sitter.
235: You can, sure. Just don't lose the damn thing.
Of course, I realize that your personal housekeeping, Ogged, is so superior to my own that even after you have a bunch of little Oggeds running around you'll always know where the prepaid phone is and make sure that the minutes are current. But some of us just figure it's not that expensive to keep the land line.
234: Good thought, but we'd just leave one of ours at home for the sitter in the unlikely event that she didn't have one of her own. With fearsome threats about what would happen if she sucked up our minutes, naturally.
237: What if one of you has left yours at work, or happens to be out of town?
I realize I'm sounding like the kind of annoying parent that's all "I *need* a cell phone just in case my late-model SUV should happen to break down in traffic and then those horrible people might do *anything* to me!!!" Really all I mean is that it's just kind of convenient to keep the landline.
I went from holding out against having a cell phone (up until, I think, 2003) to having no land line (as of 2005). I don't miss the land line.
I was having problems with the "long phone conversations on cell phone" issue, until I figured out how it's done:
1. If you're in the car, or walking somewhere, you use a hands-free device. This is a perfectly comfortable way to have a long phone call.
2. If you're at home, the ultimate way to have a phone call is lying on your back on the couch, with your cell phone resting on your chest, turned to speaker-phone mode. While cell phone speaker modes are ordinarily just ridiculously bad, this works really well for my phone. You ladies might have more difficulty resting the phone on your chest, I suppose, but I have confidence in your ingenuity.
I believe this is the point at which one of my elementary school teachers used to say, "What if a wild hippopotamus sat on your head?"
240: That might make it harder to use the speaker-phone mode, granted.
240: The version a friend of mine in middle school used was "what if a leprechaun jumped out of your locker and started...[insert Aristocrats-style ad-libbing].
Who's your carrier, Epoch? My cell phone sounds pretty good, but long phone calls involve a lot of "what did you say?"
Because it's much easier to reckon with a domesticated hippopotamus sitting on your head.
Really all I mean is that it's just kind of convenient to keep the landline.
I know what you mean, but I'm thinking it's not $30-$40 per month kind of convenient.
Sprint. They're, you know, eh. I've never known any American to be truly happy with their cell phone provider.
But I found a lot of my "what did you says"'s were the result of the speaker and the microphone on the cell phone. There are a LOT less of them with the hands-free device and the speakerphone technique.
I always use a hand-free headset, which everyone who uses tells me sounds much better than theirs, so.... Progress!
240: The real reason I have a landline is that I was doing job interviews and salary negotiations without one, and that was damned awkward and unprofessional. The kid stuff is just post-hoc rationalizations.
Also every cell phone/carrier I've ever had has had iffy coverage in my specific house, which is a major pain in the butt.
Also I'm a little paranoid about radiation to my HEAD, and the cords on the non-wireless headsets are a pain in the butt.
That and for some reason I'm being incredibly picayune today about almost everything.
I will happily concede that even under ideal circumstances, cell phone clarity/reception/whatever isn't up to land-line standards, and that not having good cell coverage in one's house is an excellent reason to still have a landline.
for what it's worth, I've found VOIP to work fine for everything my land line was doing that the cel wasn't that good at. Job interviews, long distance, etc. So I dumped the land line.
Is VOIP like Skype? No good for interviews with a kid in the background, and ime the sound quality's still kinda cruddy.
Everybody has a cell phone. Even the apostropher; he just doesn't realize it.
Huh. Is it an iPhone?
Cell phones also make me nervous that I'm interrupting someone. When I call someone's land line to chat, I at least know they're home and, hopefully, I'm not interrrupting. But on a cell they could be anywhere! It could be a bad time! And even with a landline, I'm worried about intruding.
252: It is kinda cruddy, and the lag takes some getting used to, but it's good for those long, meandering conversations when you don't really want a hot phone next to your ear all night.
Unless I'm drunk, then I'm all "heeellllllllllllloooooooo".
Cell phones also make me nervous that I'm interrupting someone.
Me too.
I don't see what the big deal is.
252: Skype is one example of VOIP (voice over IP), but there are many. Quality depends on both the implementation and (very much so) your local internet connection speed & quality.
I wish there were different rings from callers who really need some answer and those looking to chat aimlessly. This weekend, I called my best girlfriend at an inopportune moment after not having talked to her in a while, and she said, "Hon, are you calling for a reason, or just to chatter?" Unfortunate choice of words, yes, but not inaccurate. Sometimes I just want to chatter and be chattered at.
260: Fair enough. In which case my response is that it's worth the cost of a landline not to have to do a bunch of research and trial-and-error on different VOIP systems.
263: No, no, don't go away, just pick a blasted name if you're going to comment.
It's a little late to play nice, don't you think, LB?
just to chatter
I don't get this. I'll do this in person, but I have never gotten the knack of doing this on the telephone. Even with my parents, they want to chatter, and I just sort of nod along with nothing to say. Fortunately(?) all the people who call me are the same way as I am, so I'm never on the phone long.
I'll be hiding under my desk making little whimpering noises now. Not trying to be mean to anyone, I just don't like comments without names on them. (And I figure I've bitched about it enough that I can be harsh and have it come off as a running gag, rather than as genuine hostility. This may be incorrect.)
I only do it with two people who are chatterers. Otherwise, I'm not on the phone long.
have it come off as a running gag
Yes, and I was kidding. The more people you run off, the happier I am.
LB: Never apologize, never explain.
Nice Catholic girls are incapable of exercising power. You failed one more time to grind your high heels into your defeated victim's face.
I'm not Catholic. Mom was, but she left the church when she had daughters.
Never apologize, never explain.
It's "never complain, never explain," Mr. Virtue of Necessity.
I only do it with two people who are chatterers.
AWB refuses to have threesomes with strong, silent types.
No, you're Catholic. Your mistake is understandable, however.
275: It's funny, I've recently realized that while I'm Catholic, PK isn't, and isn't likely to be. Kinda weird.
You failed one more time to grind your high heels into your defeated victim's face.
See, if they look up your skirt while you're grinding the heel in, you still win, in the net. Those taboos are not absolute.
We have a land line for four reasons:
- DSL (how are all you landlineless people connecting to the Intarweb, cable modem? mooching wireless of the neighbors?)
- for people like the credit card company that you give your number to but don't actually want to talk to
- I can't ask my mother to learn more than one new phone number for me every 10 years (it took her well over a decade just to learn not to call me at home during the day because I have, you know. a job)
- when the Big One or even the next Pretty Big One hits, the landlines will probably be more reliable
Your third reason is why I have no interest in a land line, Magpie. I would have had at least six different phone numbers in the current millennium if cell phones didn't exist. But since they do, I've only had one phone number in all that time.
279: I was amused to find that here in Palo Alto, internet is fairly pervasive. My current apartment both has free wired internet through ethernet jacks in every room (the building shares a cable modem, which works quite well for the number of units that we have), and is within the range of a free wireless network that some altruist put together. (Not just an unsecured network, one that's expressly for people to just use whenever they want).
how are all you landlineless people connecting to the Intarweb, cable modem?
Yup.
My aunt always shared an e-mail account with her husband. I like her husband, but I did ask her to open up one of her own, because I wanted to be able to send her personal, provate e-mails without having to worry that he had read them too. Also, occasionally I liek to write him, and he never seemed to answer any e-mails addressed to Laura and Mark. She doesn't like gmail that much, but I sent her an invite, because I knew that it was possible to set up Apple mail to download from gmail.
I would have had at least six different phone numbers in the current millennium if cell phones didn't exist.
My situation's the opposite of yours -- I've lived in two places but have had at least four cell providers, all before number portability.
282: You don't count. How about the people without MCSEs?
I too use a cable modem and I don't even know what "MCSE" stands for.
It means certified half-assed technician.
mooching wireless of the neighbors?
Ayup, except they offered, so I guess it doesn't really count as mooching. They get it for free (her employer pays, because she works partly from home), and they're only too happy to share.
When the Big One hits, I'm going to communicate via Google Earth, by writing messages in really big letters in the back yard.
