Due to various conventions I would think a presidential pseudonym would also be out or at least discouraged.
If I were to state my irrational preferences, which are obviously of no consequence to anyone, it would be to please be sure that your pseud can be reasonably clearly identified with a single word or abbreviation. I hate it when I can't figure out a way to identify a commenter without typing a lot of characters.
1: You mean using one all the time, as opposed for just embarrassing stuff? Yeah, that would be bad.
By way of explanation, I recently changed from 'annie' to 'clueless' for a couple of reasons:
1) When I finally picked up on a few things that seemed to be obvious to everyone else, e.g., that ogged lives in SF and has done so for years now.
2) While I enjoy the posts & comments here very much bc they're often funny and insightful, I just as often don't know what's going on, e.g., I never know about any of the bands w-lfs-n talks about.
1, 4: The pseuds of regular commenters spelled backwards, too.
6: Yeah, that'd count as impersonation, if not done by the regular commenter themselves.
4: Yeah. I didn't think that would be clear to a newcomer reading your rules.
5: Those bands really exist? I had no idea.
To be fair, I don't think w-lfs-n knows about the bands w-lfs-n talks about.
I guess 1. is necessary because we have special uses for such names, a convention that works well, but which people might not notice right away. LB points out the use concisely, but it works only because presidentials signal the presence of a comment with embarassing admissions, and the convention would be disturbed if someone tried using such a name for ordinary comments.
Yeah, I edited the post to make that explicit.
To be fair, I don't think w-lfs-n knows about the bands w-lfs-n talks about.
They don't exist until I talk about them.
Is the thought of the Unicorns a real thought?
talking about bands is teh performative utterance!
12: but didn't highlight that your edit was an edit, which is an egregious ethical violation. Now it looks like my 1 was just based on careless reading of the post. I assume you are just trying to make me look bad?
talking about bands is teh performative utterance!
I was going for intellectual intuition, myself.
Yes. The stress of writing this brief has led me to lash out arcanely and pointlessly against randomly selected members of the Unfoggedariat.
Damn I write some inane stuff on here when I'm procrastinating. Look at 16--honestly, I'm ashamed of myself. I need to learn to waste time playing solitaire, or something.
I was actually impressed by 1 as an example of legal reasoning I've always been a step behind at. I'd have had much higher law school grades if I'd explained, what I always actually knew, not just what something was but also why it wasn't something else.
And yes, I'm procrastinating almost all the time I'm around here, so there's no need for anyone even to go there.
No unadorned common first names.
Ah, shit.
Out! Out! Unclean! Shoo!
(Seriously, if you've been around for awhile, you're grandfathered in. And 'Stanley' isn't that common.)
I don't think Stanley is a "common" name, anyway. This isn't a retirement home.
Phew. I'm safe! And retired, apparently.
Plus, those are just LB's irrational preferences. You can violate them if you like.
Which was, in fact, the whole point of the post -- differentiating between things that are actual rules, and things that will merely make me even crabbier and more hostile than usual, if such a thing were possible.
You can violate them if you like dare.
What about pseudonymous commenters who occasionally post under their real name, like me? Developing the Kotsko persona in this context is fun, but sometimes I need to get down to the proverbial "brass tacks."
Anyone who tries to ban Codpiece is preemptively banned.
You know, I don't think I'd ever noticed who F. Winston was.
34: So many people keep getting this exactly backwards, despite my straightforward explanation of the relationship between me and the Kotsko character.
Stanley is a common first name among certain despised ethnic groups.
Racist.
For anyone who's been keeping track of my weekly comment, I will heretofore refer to myself as "Hank" rather than "Matt." I think it suits me.
I've been hating on my screen name for a while, but I've had it so long, it would seem incredibly weird to change it. I take some comfort in LB's view that consistency neutralizes stupidity.
38: Not to make you feel bad, but I had, in fact, not realized that we had someone posting as just 'Matt'. I wonder who I was attributing your posts to.
Unfortunately, with what you've switched to, I'll probably be inadvertently calling you 'Newt'.
What if you're unhappy with the personality you've established under one pseudonym and want to start over?
If you do it without leaving textual clues, I can't see that anyone would notice. It seems like a silly sort of thing to do, though.
What makes you think anyone will like you better under a new personality?
I meant 43 teasingly, of course, but seriously, it is hard to recreate one's personality, especially since your prose style will still be identifiably yours.
Despite Ben's fine suggestion yesterday, 'Wry Cooter' is still available.
47: There is also the possibility of developing a new prose style, perhaps through imitation of someone else's.
I'll post as my great-grandfather from now on.
I get the sense that while I'm not disliked, I'm occasionally made the object of fun--mostly not mean-spirited, but not without a bite. It makes me feel a bit unwelcome. I'm not entirely sure how a new name would help.
49: I'm just saying, I think if there's something you want to stop using Unfogged for, it's probably easiest just to say, "Hey, dudes, I'm going to stop bitching about X here, you'll be glad to know!" Or not announce it, whatever, but wanting to create a whole new "personality" seems more like a symptom than a cure.
51: Oh, I see, it's more the way you're treated rather than the way you treat others. Hrm. Still not sure if it would help, but it's a bigger problem.
51: Just man up already and say what it is that's bugging you.
Yeah, stop acting like a woman, Ulysses.
I really can't think of anyone here who is not made the object of fun. Is there anyone who is taken seriously?
51: For that sort of problem, I'd say that unless you've got a very clear idea of what's causing it, and you're a remarkably good actor, changing your name isn't going to change anything.
Is there anyone who is taken seriously?
Dr. Eric Rauchway.
57 may not be correct. If we know one thing about a person, and even if that thing is not representative of the person it colors everything that person says in our eyes, then that person may wish he could be judged just on his current statements and not on the thing in the past which people are unable to forget.
I can't think of what this situation might be, though.
Brad Delong shows up occasionally, and everyone gets respectful and quiet.
51: My experience with online communities has been that, if something is bugging you socially, the best approach is to ask about it, openly, seriously, and sincerely. If people shoot you down, you may have lost social status, but you were already unhappy about that. In most cases, though, there are enough other people with bouts of social anxiety and undersocialization that if you ask for help and feedback, you can get it in the same spirit of painful self-examination and sincerity that you asked for it in.
And if the community instead decides to make sport of your honest discomfort and cynically mocks your sincerity, well, that's valuable data, too, in the 'Well, time to not visit that site anymore' sense. Because, frankly, it's not like there's a shortage of online communities to be a part of it. Life's too short to be on the outside looking in.
That's just because LB has a crush on him and we're all afraid of mocking him where she can see us.
People take Chun the Unavoidable seriously.
I thought I was still officially registered as having a crush on the irascible Welshman. Is someone keeping track of this sort of thing?
But a certain economist has also impersonated both hedgehogs and rabbis, if I remember correctly.
60: That's because we're making fun of him for being afraid of Ogged by pretending to be afraid of him.
Really? Man. There are wheels within wheels, aren't there.
We really need to have a new blogcrush thread.
I thought I was still officially registered as having a crush on the irascible Welshman.
Your official crush is on dsquared, but your revealed crush is on the good doctor.
Damn. Well, I suppose I can't argue with science.
Ben was the Keeper of the Crushlog. Since we never actually officially listed our crushes for him, he just made them up, using a complex algorithm.
I was never no keeper of nothin'. But with my keen eagle eye, I ferreted out your shiny secrets for my magpie's nest of information.
No one found him trustworthy, you see.
Long posts discussing rules and conventions are dispreferred. This is just a preference.
(3) Short sets of initials.
But, but, but, I'm me!
Hedgehog followup (though, unfortunately, the google results are no longer the same).
I always read SEK in full in my head. If necessary.
You could change it to the longer and more appropriate "SEKs", since, uh, you contain multitudes.
And Ulysses - this lot are bitchy, it's part of the charm. If you want niceness, somewhere else might be better. Or, just ignore it and bitch back.
Yes, but then everyone would preface disagreement with me like so.
I've wanted to comment here for some time but sever performance anxiety about my screen name always stops me.
sever performance anxiety
The plan is to quickly dispatch the handle after assuming it, which is naturally not an operation one undertakes lightly.
And to Ulysses -- I sounded unsympathetic, and I didn't mean to. If people are being unpleasant to you, that's not a good thing. I'm just not sure how it gets fixed.
85, 81 - see?
84 - they're both too nonsensical.
Seconded on Holimer. And Ulysses, I agree with the "man up!" comments.
There should be a registry somewhere of pseuds we would like someone to have, like Hair Trigger Twat, and Spacial Bear.
Don't forget that the rule against impersonation should allow commenting collectives
Ulysses, you might ask yourself why people are being unpleasant to you. Is it a matter of political differences? Is it because you don't control the tone of your posts very well so that you sound snippier than you mean to? (This is one I struggle with, or at least I think I do) Do you often think people dislike you? (I tend to think people dislike me when they don't or even (sigh) when they don't care at all.)
Unfogged is weird, I have to say--the mixture of definite, long-standing personas, the semi-anonymity of the internet and the extremely wide range of discussion and self-revelation here are sometimes disconcerting. Not social enough to be reliably chummy, but not anonymous enough for one not to care, is what I'm saying.
Actually, though, one of the things I like about Unfogged is that not everyone really likes everyone. (As much as one can "dislike" a pixel-based entity) It's the same thing I like about activism--there's enough common interest to keep things, er, interesting and yet you can still take part even if some people bug you.
83: Of spermatozoa.
The first sign of ben's desire to have buttsecks with an ethnic microbe.
Tsze-lu said, "What will you consider the first thing to be done?"
The Master replied, "What is necessary is to rectify names." "So! indeed!" said Tsze-lu. "You are wide of the mark! Why must there be such rectification?"
The Master said, "How uncultivated you are, Yu! A superior man, in regard to what he does not know, shows a cautious reserve.
"If names be not correct, language is not in accordance with the truth of things. If language be not in accordance with the truth of things, affairs cannot be carried on to success.
"When affairs cannot be carried on to success, proprieties and music do not flourish. When proprieties and music do not flourish, punishments will not be properly awarded. When punishments are not properly awarded, the people do not know how to move hand or foot."
OK - I spell worse than saiselgY and I'm old so I have no excuse.
ByeBye
PS - Mathambles is not nonsensical. Just obscure. Besides - where is that in the rules?
96 - Not a rule at all! And even if it were, I'm not a rule-setter, just a rude commenter. I hope that "ByeBye" isn't final?
97 - almost.
You guys are great though.
Brad Delong shows up occasionally, and everyone gets respectful and quiet.
Are you saying I was out of line?
I feel a little sorry for Ulysses if it's anyone but ogged. If it's ogged I just want to laugh and laugh and laugh. But sadly I bet it's someone else.
As far as rule #2 goes, what about those among us with a dissociative identity disorder? Haven't they suffered enough?
FYI: I used to be just Peter, but now I hearby claim Yaks Mcnally. You can all call me Yaks.
I thought LB's deepest crush was on Tom Geoghegan, or however the hell he spells it.
My advice to Ulysses is to remember how people don't always read with the same concentration or in the same mood, and you have to try to remember that having had what seem like very good exchanges will not mean the same person or people will be that much closer or more sympathetic next time. Several denizens here have taken the trouble to explain to me that it can't be taken personally, and I'll do the same to you.
I'm starting to feel like the official harlot of Unfogged, here. Luckily, Buck doesn't read this much.
pseuds we would like someone to have
"Apo's #1 Fan"
the official harlot of Unfogged
Not until it's voted on, young lady.
I use my real name because I don't want my pseudonym traced back here.
Damn, should have done that presidentially to preserve my dignity.
the official harlot of UnfoggedNot until it's voted on, young lady.
Don't forget the last vote which LB won.
I'm occasionally made the object of fun--mostly not mean-spirited, but not without a bite. It makes me feel a bit unwelcome.
You're already annoying me, Grant.
Ogged's identity as Ulysses: confirmed!
I'm starting to think maybe Lunar Rockette is actually Ogged.
I declare this thread insufficiently trolled.
I am so boring, and old, I have had the same login everyehere for twenty years. I just can't think of one I like better.
How boring & old? Last night on one of the art-movie channels they showed Lucia y la Sexo. Never seen it, I am like wow, having never watched Spanglish either because I don't watch Sandler movies but now Paz Vega has replaced Penelope & Salma in my heart but arty and wierd with poignant and meaningful hot sex...
...and I fell asleep. Can anybody tell me what the last 2/3 was like?
mcmanus gets one exactly right. I don't speak Spanish, but I watched that movie without subtitles because Paz Vega is the bee's knees.
I'm starting to think maybe Lunar Rockette is actually Ogged.
Your theories intrigue me.
Can anybody tell me what the last 2/3 was like?
More naked Paz. Ineptly done central tragedy involving a dog, explaining why wossname the writer is cranky. Paz on a motorbike. More nakedness, on the beach, with mud.
118: How does LB feel about people who post unsigned comments by mistake?
(I'm scared).
As long as you own up and apologise IMMEDIATELY it's ok. Just don't give her a chance to think you're trying to get away with an anonymous comment.
I'd comment more frequently, but I actually have to work at work, so I generally show up hours too late to participate. Is being named Pony allowed, anyway?
Are you the pony who comments at I Blame the Patriarchy?
No, but I do blame the patriarchy, if that helps.
For what do you blame the patriarchy?
I blame the patriarchy for $15/hr.
Kick ass. I'll have to work on building the brand.
so I generally show up hours too late to participate
I don't understand what this means.
And I'm overlooking the grammar.
Nevermind, the grammar is fine. But I still don't get it.
Sadly, Brock Landers is the true face of the modern patriarchy.
Um, guys -- it seems obvious to me that when Ulysses said, "I'm not disliked, I'm occasionally made the object of fun--mostly not mean-spirited, but not without a bite," he was referring to our continual "Who's buried in Grant's tomb?" jokes.
The patriarchy may be oppressive, but you have to it's damned handsome.
Have I told you recently how much I hate you, Kotsko?
I'm starting to think maybe Lunar Rockette is actually Ogged.
Dear god, people, have you no sense of discernment and character?
Are you the Pony I've wanted since I was a little girl? Why do you torment me?
On the internet, nobody knows if you're Ogged.
That's actually true in real life as well.
Bloody hell, that opera thread went a bit mental, didn't it?
I've been in the garden watching the Perseids - lots of them - and wondering whether if people use their real names here it's ok to track them down and friend them on Facebook.
You might want to message them first.
If you want to join the Unfogged Facebook group, btw, just e-mail me.
I don't like this delurking amnest/marathon recruitment drive stuff. If you are lurking, ask yourself: Aren't you lurking for a reason? There are already too many commenters here.
But for Lunar, we'll bring out the fruit basket.
What marathon recruitment drive stuff?
143 was so hilarious as to be injurious to my health, but only because I'm eating a big bowl of black/blue/straw/rasp berries at the moment.
143: Yes! This is correct. And now I can go watch my movie without feeling bad about waiting to see how the rest of this conversation turned out without my participation. Anyway, I never catch the comment threads I have value to add to until after they've moved on to something else.
Anyway, I never catch the comment threads I have value to add to until after they've moved on to something else.
Don't let that stop you. A recurring motif helps to knit a thread together.
146: Don't hesitate to re-rail a comment thread. If you can get the subject change to stick, you've won!
142 - ah , thanks teo - have done, hope I got the address right.
I was also wondering whether one could have a trampoline for a bed, as it was very comfortable. And then I started worrying about falling asleep out there. Shooting stars are great.
Of course, if the thread is already dead, there's no hope for you.
I prefer not to think about these threads instrumentally.
You mean you prefer not to think of these threads as being instrumental? </w-lfs-n>
143 would have been funnier had I provided the right link.
Darn it. I guess I have to find a new name.
You know, if I hadn't promised myself I'd never change my handle, I'd probably change it right now to violate as many of the rules of this post as possible.
Also: you're telling people these things now? I thought the magic of it was that the poor fools had to suss them out on their own?
Also: rules are stupid. Burn it down! Burn! Burn!
Also, to 73:
But with my keen eagle eye, I ferreted out your shiny secrets for my to squirrel away in the magpie's nest of information my elephantine memory.
It's surprising that no one's come up with "dogged" yet.
I feel so much anxiety about choosing a handle. All I can come up with now are characters from my diss chapters, which is so unbearably lame I can hardly stand it.
I really can't think of anyone here who is not made the object of fun. Is there anyone who is taken seriously?
I agree with AWB. Who is taken seriously? Who wants to be taken seriously?
Damn that's one fat dis if it has chapters.
Chapter 1: Sexual Activities Which You Are Unlikely To Find Pleasurable
Chapter 2: Suggestions On The Arrangement Of Your Orifices and Extremities
Chapter 3: Ways in Which Your Physical Appearance Deviates From Widely Held Standards of Beauty
Chapter 4: Problems With Your Mother You Should Be Made Aware Of
Chapter 5: Your Weight, Unflattering Aspects Thereof
Chapter 6: Unfortunate Details of Your Ancestry
Appendix A: List of Friends Who Don't Actually Like You
Glossay of Insults
Index
Fuck it. Ok, the commenter formally (not)known as "rachel" will henceforth comment under the handle "Sybil Vane." I feel very pushed into this, given my name's appearing (coincidentally or not) in the post itself.
I'm all about Facebook now that they've got Scrabble.
I've always liked the name Rachel. It was my dear departed Grandmother's name.
My first crush was named Rachel.
I errantly thought I was distinctivising it enough by not capitalizing the "r." It's a lovely, Biblical name, and now here I am invoked a dumb actress who kills herself.
See? These rules are just going to make everything more confusing for everyone.
My proposal:
(a) We shed the yoke of oppression! Everybody gets to use whatever pseudonym they want! GeorgeW, Lurky McLurklurk, DaveA-DaveZ, uu, rg, dk, po, it, bs: we want to hear from you!
(b) Nobody ever gets to change their pseudonym again, ever, for any reason.
Speaking of your name appearing in the post, did anyone else find that odd? Isn't "Rachel" significantly less common than Dave or Jen or Matt? It's certainly not an odd name, but if I were choosing four prototypically common names, there's no way Rachel would make the list.
But maybe it's more common than I realize?
I like the name rachel, too. It's redolent of high school nerdiness and crushes on jewish girls.
173: Not if your email address is your real name. Otherwise, yes, it was probably you.
173: You couldn't be. He crushed her.
Sybil, if you would prefer to continue commenting as rachel, by all means do so. These aren't hard-and-fast rules, especially for people who have already been commenting for a while. I'm quite sure LB would back me up on this if she were here right now.
LB is jealous of Rachel. Why else would she be so catty about her name?
I mean, *I* didn't find it odd, because I assume everything is about me. And I have been commenting a lot lately, after lurking for awhile. And LB never adresses my comments.
My best friend is named Rachael, so it feels common in my life. But mostly in the version with the extra "a." Which is dumb.
If LB weren't fighting senile dementia this would be no problem at all.
People with common names should just adopt distinctive spellings: Rachel becomes Raychelle, Will because \/\/1|_ |_ z, DaveB becomes Bave, Apostropher becomes Russell Barnes' Def Apostrophe Jam.
Rachel is the #79 most common female name.
That is the #1 most stupid grammar.
I don't watch Sandler movies
People who don't watch Sandler movies owe it to themselves to watch Punch Drunk Love.
GeorgeW, Lurky McLurklurk, DaveA-DaveZ, uu, rg, dk, po, it, bs: we want to hear from you!
Rachel becomes Raychelle, Will because \/\/1|_ |_ z, DaveB becomes Bave.
Beefo Meaty is in very good form.
Check it: The WSJ out-Modern Loves Modern Love.
165 is a lot more McSweeny than I expect from Sifu.
189: I thought that while I was writing it, but it still hurts to see somebody else thinking it, too.
Although 175 is both hilarious and true (so much better when when the two go together, it's like you've got your chocolate in my peanut butter), I think Sybil Vane is kinda badass. Like "Rachel" with a martini and hella eyeliner on.
There should be a registry somewhere of pseuds we would like someone to have, like Hair Trigger Twat, and Spacial Bear.
Don't forget Wry Cooter. And El Hombre Muy Magnifico.
Link at 188: Whoa. I thought Unfogged was a timesuck, but Second Life is really like that?
One is tempted to emerge from lurking and adopt this pseudonym, but the expectations would be too high.
Don't forget Wry Cooter. And El Hombre Muy Magnifico.
Onf, Ugged, Antia, boB, Lantana Fob, Emdasher, Amstel, Wolf Benson, BlizzardWraith, Al DiMediaola: all available for massive Crisis On Infinite Unfoggeds crossover threads. Goatees optional.
194: Anything is like that, really.
Playing real video games helps inoculate you against the tawdry, half-assed quality of Second Life.
BlizzardWraith is very good.
a poser, her
(not as good)
Any objections to this pseudonym?
"200!" would be a confusing pseud, Becks.
I have a question for Pony: are you a visitor from the future?
This is OT, but why do people here bother using fake email addresses?
You don't have to type anything in the email address field?
Wow, you don't. I assumed that it was like every other website on earth.
No, and apparently you don't either.
You never noticed all those names without hyperlinks, Ned?
I seldom comment, and I don't know if that's going to change, so it's perhaps a bit silly to announce a name change for an online persona that barely exists. But since this seems like an ideal forum for such an annoucements, I'll state here that future contributions from me will be under the pseudonym "Otto von Bisquick."
I assume there is some sort of ten commandments regarding the e-mail field.
Wolf Benson is a fantastic name. You should think about havings yours changed to that, ben.
I'm very curious about the size of the lurker and infrequent poster population, especially in light of Armsmasher's comment.
Could the proprietors enlighten us?
but I've always admired, and striven to emulate, those whose nonce pseuds also have a fictitious email, sometimes engaged in joke-explaining.
202: Of course I should have known that Tweety'd get there first.
Wolf Benson is a fantastic name. You should think about havings yours changed to that, ben.
The year before I go on the market.
211 -- There was an accounting some months ago of the total number of comments of leading commenters. A monument to procrastination. I'd look it up, but others are much quicker, and anyway, the stats will have changed quite a bit by now . . .
Is there anyone who is taken seriously?
Dr. Eric Rauchway.
Gosh, and I thought you folks were just polite to everyone.
211: I think I posted about that one time asking lurkers to say hi in the thread. I'll just let good ol' Wolf "Howlin'" Benson look that up for you.
219: About how many were there?
fuck, double-reverse pwnage, because that wasn't the thread I was talking about. I blame cory doctorow the patriarchy.
No, alameida, I linked to that thing CharleyCarp mentioned in 215 (which he mentioned as a response to 211, but I'm not sure how it's responsive). I remember when you had a lurker shout out, but don't know a quick way of finding the link. We'll let Howler take care of it for us.
Now I'm pwned! That's triple-reverse pwnage, I think.
pwned! has completely lost its magic. It's become limper even than 100! How very sad. Can't someone come up with a new joke?
Can't someone come up with a new joke?
Sure. I heard this great knock-knock joke. Wanna hear it? Okay. You start. Say "Knock-knock."
We just came back from seeing Sunshine. Not a flawless movie by any means, but I liked it a lot. It was stylish and effective, obviously aiming to be in the tradition of 2001 and Solaris and doing a decent job of it.
The joke in 226 is my favorite joke!
I cannot believe b-wo fell for that. B-wo? You feeling all right?
I have been cheated of my Stanley/w-lfs-n joke collaboration.
#fortune goes in the fortune field, kids.
233: Did I break the blog, or are you starting a new knock-knock joke? If it's the latter—who's there?
I'm not sure how it's responsive
Well, you know, while it obviously doesn't answer the question presented, it's both interesting in its own right, and indicative of certain technical capabilities.
I don't understand 235, and am not bother by this.
I blame the patriarchy. This is not responsive either, exactly, Brock, but seemed worth the effort.
I've got a joke. My face and your butt!
Wait...
Ben w-lfs-n so long that catamites! Catamites! Aaaaaaa!!!
A little prickly tonight, Charley?
I just got an email with a .zip attachment from a name I don't recognize, the entire text of which reads:
Helo, man!
Amusing game. Carrie Ann Moss fucks Harry Potter... In your attachemnt.
Good Bye.
I have to open the attachment, don't I?
I've never seen someone fucked in the attachment before.
Knock knock.
Who's there?
Knock.
Who's there?
Who's there?
Knock knock.
Who.
Who?
Knock knock.
Who's there?
Philip Glass.
Yes. Yes, you do.
But first, swimming post.
Are you trying to say you want a swimming post, Lunar?
245: in The Matrix, attachment opens you.
Yes. Please?
I guess you could make another post on an interesting topic that's not liable to degenerate into madness, but swimming has a time-tested history, and also, I like it.
I meant for that to happen, y'all. Saw right through it.
Well, are you are are you not a helo man?
251: in The Matrix, attachment opens you.
The first Unfogged was designed to be a perfect blog. No trolling, no absurdities, no pedantry. Where no one corrected grammar. Where in-jokes were explained and elucidated.
It was a disaster. No one would accept the protocol. Entire threads were lost.
I did in fact open the attachment (after a virus scan) and it contained an executable. That I did not run.
Argh, this is what I get for not reading the blog all weekend. LB calls me out and I don't hear about it until a lovely mini-meetup with AWB and Arthegall and friends. And they're all like, "LB totally talked smack about you, didn't you see?" And I'm all like, "Nuh-uh?" And yes, it turns out to be true.
I would love to have a less-patently-lame handle than DaveB. Suggestions are welcome -- nay, solicited!
I'm drunk and going to bed.
I wake up behind the bars of my timezone to find someone came on this pseud before me. Racist!
Between the knock-knock jokes, the screwball comedies, and the frittatas, I'm having trouble coming up with a reason not to make redfoxtailshrub the godmother of my children.
I've had Wrongshore since (urgh) Plastic.com.
I wake up behind the bars of my timezone to find someone came on this pseud before me.
Pseudobukkake. It's real.
It would be hilarious if the result of this post was that a bunch of people changed their pseudonyms. Because LB hates that.
Man, I was just reading the archives (like we all do). Woo-doggy. Good times.
You were reading the archives from less than a month ago?
I think you have picked up on the wrong part of Stanley's comment.
Oh, man, I remember how angry that post made me. The Excel chart! Of incidences of ad hominems! Coming on the heels of her insistence that female scientists not uptick!
I always get the right and left parts confused. Are you sure there's not a catch?
Aw, man, I'm sorry, Rachel. Literally, I've got a problem remembering comments from people with a common-first-name handle, and I forgot we had someone commenting as 'rachel' (that is, your handle was probably sticking in my head somewhere, which is how it made it into the post, but I didn't intentionally call you out.) Change your name or don't, as it suits you -- remember that the 'no simple first names' was in the 'Irrational Preferences' part of the post.
Several denizens here have taken the trouble to explain to me that it can't be taken personally, and I'll do the same to you.
This may very well be one of the unwritten rules of the forum, but I think it's stupid. If someone says something that hurts your feelings -- even if it's a pseudonymous hurting of your possibly apocryphal feelings -- I say you get to take it personally if you so choose. My pet peeve in life is people telling other people they shouldn't feel angry or sad or offended or whatever. Speaking up may do nothing to change things, but as someone way way upthread said, if you tell someone they've hurt your feelings and they continue to do so, you've learned something about the kind of person they are. If you say nothing, you lose the opportunity to discover that perhaps no offense was intended whatsoever -- tone gets lost easily and what may have been intended as playful teasing can easily come off as nastiness.
I would love to have a less-patently-lame handle than DaveB. Suggestions are welcome -- nay, solicited!
I'm drunk and going to bed.
Goodnight, Bave.
Aw, thanks, Wrongshore. I never would have guessed the knock-knock jokes would be a point in my favor.
So, Karl Rove is resigning, huh?
275: conversely, I believe that to take anything seriously on the internet is to disastrously misunderstand the medium's potential for conveying emotional nuance. This makes me a blast to have around when somebody is online looking for genuine sympathy, let me tell you.
I've been searching for the way to really piss off LB in comments forever, and now I find I've had it all along.
I wonder if I should change my handle on bphd's blog from barefootandpregnant to cw?
My pet peeve in life is people telling other people they shouldn't feel angry or sad or offended or whatever. Speaking up may do nothing to change things, but as someone way way upthread said, if you tell someone they've hurt your feelings and they continue to do so, you've learned something about the kind of person they are.
With the caveat, of course, that some people take offence very easily (and sometimes unreasonably). Sometimes you learn something about other people from what kinds of things they take offence at. I know people who take any criticism of certain areas of their belief -- however balanced or careful -- as something to be offended at. I don't think it's my obligation to avoid offending them at all costs.
Mnemonics help. For Rachel, I just remember "Moby Dick":
Rachel, that in her retracing search after her missing children, only found another orphan.
Why that helps, I don't know.
Cock jokes not knock jokes. Two forty-three, 248, 250, 252 are examples of how to mime another commenter and make it perfectly clear it's a parody use. No one save Ogged desires to read the swimming posts.
275: If you say nothing, you lose the opportunity to discover that perhaps no offense was intended whatsoever
OK, I'm deeply offended that nobody here has troubled to ask me for my street address so they can mail me large bearer cheques on a frequent basis. If no offense is intended, feel free to rectify this.
(I don't imagine this will work, but nothing ventured...)
277: Since it's Karl Rove, I assume there's something sinister underlying it. (In the same way that if it was Tinkerbelle I'd probably assume there wasn't.)
277: Bush doesn't really need a political advisor anymore, since there aren't going to be any more elections.
259: It's yours if you want it. I toyed with the switch (not that I've posted very much under this one) for amusement, but I think "Hair Trigger Twat" is too intimidatingly glorious for me.
Re: lurking, I've never done it. I started reading unfogged semi-regularly around the start of the year, IIRC, and I commented when I felt like commenting. Maybe I should feel guilty.
Naah. To the extent that a "lurk at first" convention exists online, it's to avoid stuff like the "post about politics more" complaints like in the Cheney video thread. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure I don't do stuff like that. I acclimate quickly.
Re: names, Cyrus is my real first name, and it's easily rare enough to be distinctive. I hated having such a weird name as a kid and teen -- kids will make fun of each other for any damn thing -- and it's still a little annoying how I have to spell it for people without fail, but it's grown on me.
I am surprised, however, that more people don't use "pony" or a variation on it as their pseudonym, considering how "I want a pony" is such a catchphrase. I'm not that tempted to do what 263 suggests just for the fun of it, but if I did, I think I'd use some variation on that.
286: We really ought to have a commenter named subtext.
text is no longer the state of the art!
Insecurity often masquerades as humor.
You have to get over your insecurities. Go beyond, text.
Every text deserves to be put in context.
That would be subtext, wouldn't it?
With the caveat, of course, that some people take offence very easily (and sometimes unreasonably).
Sure, but I think most of us are willing to accommodate even rather idiosyncratic sensitivities if someone expresses them. If I told you all that I had trouble remembering the Federal Rules of Evidence, it would be like an open invitation for witty jibes about my ignorance of the hearsay rule. If I then said, "Gosh, I'm actually pretty sensitive about that. I have a recurring nightmare where I lose my job because I couldn't remember the business records exception," then I feel pretty safe in believing most of you would lay off. Because even if it is a matter of being unreasonably touchy, it really isn't a huge burden to give me a break
If I said that I were a raging conservative and it made me feel very bad to hear you all bashing my man Karl Rove, then it would be really silly for me to expect you to stop bashing Karl to spare my feelings.
Those are examples, not analogies. Please don't ban me.
211: Here you go.
I'd forgotten that I didn't even make that list. I think I had made the previous list (near the bottom). Either I should comment more or give up and comment less.
"Rachel as unmemorable name" trope?
I say you get to take it personally if you so choose.
I'm offended that nobody appreciated the links in 92 and 111, both of those were difficult to find and personal favorites of mine.
I appreciated 111. I didn't click on 92.
296: honestly, Di Kotimy, I'm not sure you wouldn't continue to get some (reasonably good-natured) needling.
And to follow up on what Di Kotimy says, just because someone is offended or upset by something, it doesn't necessarily mean that other people need to change their behavior. Now this is therapeutic-speak, but the individual shouldn't judge himself for feeling upset. How one acts in response is a different matter.
I appreciated 111. I didn't click on 92.
Thank you.
The specific comment linked in 92 is less amusing, but the thread in which Kid Bitzer talks about being multiple people is good.
"Rachel as unmemorable name" trope?
Just to be clear, I'm not trying to tease rachel (I was unreasonably pleased to be explicitly grandfathered in), just noting the coincidence.
I appreciated the kid bitzer link.
Only losers cannot remember the business records exception.
Other than that, I think 296 is correct. I am also very sensitive about my feelings regarding 296 so please do not hassle me about it.
text, your opinions are wrong and you should feel bad for having them. Point and laugh at text!
I think we try not to be gratuitously mean, but if you get all sensitive, I will try to make you cry. Thick skins only, please.
I've slept on it, and will stick with Sybil Vane. I feel only slightly oppressed and sensitive about it.
Rachel, however, is deeply memorable. It will forever be the subtext in Sybil Vane.
re: 296
Yeah, that seems right. I was thinking more of the Rove-type example than the other.
Actually, someone I know has a terrible time with any kind of disagreement. They take it as a personal offence even when mildly expressed. Even in that case I cut them a lot of slack as I know it comes from a certain lack of self-esteem rather than a lack of respect for other people's views.
I am also very sensitive about my feelings regarding 296 so please do not hassle me about it.
People who favor numbers whose digits combine to 117 are bad people. But it probably isn't their fault.
If you say nothing, you lose the opportunity to discover that perhaps no offense was intended whatsoever -- tone gets lost easily and what may have been intended as playful teasing can easily come off as nastiness
What I've discovered, when complaining OB when I've been offended, is that offense has never been intended to me when I thought it was, often because the comment of mine to which I thought they were responding hadn't even been registered.
In many ways, indifference to what I've written has been the most unpleasant experience I've had on this blog. Contention, even mockery are much easier to take. The worst is when something I've said is more-or-less parphrased by someone else, without reference, and then people line up to praise the second comment.
It's better to be mocked than ignored.
It's better to be mocked than ignored.
A spin on Neil Young's "better to burn out, than to fade away."
That was funny, and you didn't even post them together.
312 gets it exactly right.
It's funny how ignoring someone requires paying great attention to that person.
I think its a spin on the more originary Wildean, "The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about."
The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about.
Well, there's colorectal cancer.
Parsing out the factual innacuracies of Oscar Wilde quips is way fun.
There's only one thing worse than being talked about, and that is being strapped to a table and slowly eaten alive by thousands upon thousands of ants.
299: honestly, Di Kotimy, I'm not sure you wouldn't continue to get some (reasonably good-natured) needling.
Well, this is why I said "most of you" would probably lay off. I recognize that there are those that wouldn't. Personally, I think if you know that teasing someone about something -- even if it is something stupid -- is felt by them as hurtful, and you continue to tease about that, then I am going to conclude that you consider your amusement more important than the person's feelings and I will have an unfavorable impression of you. I wouldn't consider teasing under those circumstances "good natured."
Again, I don't mean this with respect to ordinary conversations which incidentally hurt someone's feelings. Just the directly personal jibes which are easy enough to avoid.
Of course, I offer my "wisdom" in response to Ulysses S. Grant, who probably was just feeling hurt that his links were underappreciated anyway. And, on that point, NickS, I really enjoyed the links in 92 and 111. Sorry for not recognizing that sooner!
311: In all honesty, it's probably because people skim long threads. It's happened to me periodically, too. I comment, it falls stillborn from the press comment box, and three hundred comments later someone else posts a paraphrase which leads to comity and cake. It happens.
Right, and a lot of people don't read the longer comments, with variable definitions of "longer."
323: Yes, and it's probably one of the reasons Weiner-pwned was invented, although someone with archival mastery may be able to demonstrate otherwise. I notice we've stopped saying that.
325: It hurts my feelings when you guys use proprietary lingo that I'm too new to understand...
It helps to think we're sleeping underneath the same big sky.
It also seems like when 2 or 3 people are saying similar things, people are more likely to respond directly to the person who is seen as a "regular". It makes sense because the regulars are familiar enough in their personas that it's easier to feel like one is having a conversation with them, but sometimes annoying.
So it's nice to know from 323 that the regulars feel the same way.
it's probably because people skim long threads
actually, I think people ignore my comments because they're generally pointless and kinda out of left field...
Actually, cw, it's because you have so unmemorable a handle.
On the 'no one responds to me because I'm not a regular' front, while it happens some, I think there's also a pretty big effect because you notice when it happens to you, but don't notice when other people comment and it falls flat. This is one of those situations where I think everyone feels as if there's a circle of 'real regulars' who are more on the inside than they are (I mean, I'm a main page poster, and I feel like that some days), and there's not a solution other than not giving a damn.
I thought the huge benefit of online personae is that they lack feelings.
Every time a comment I make goes unremarked, I simply assume it's because people are nodding gravely in agreement, and can think of nothing to say that wouldn't detract from the elegance of whatever point I've made.
I assume this even if someone chooses to respond, since one or two responses are hardly representative of the untold thousands who read my words.
It sometimes helps to maintain the illusion if I drop off the thread and do something else for a while.
My online persona's huge benefit is in its pants.
I get upset every time I say something funny and it isn't followed by fifteen people saying "Wow, that's funny, SEK, and I love you."
Your online persona wears more stylish pants than you?
338: His online persona wears pants at all.
I almost never have pants on in real life.
Also, LB never pwns me in real life.
Yet again that half-step too slow. Burns, doesn't it?
Burns, doesn't it?
Mostly when my online persona urinates.
My online persona is simulating a rape scene with my real life persona.
On the 'no one responds to me because I'm not a regular' front, while it happens some, I think there's also a pretty big effect because you notice when it happens to you, but don't notice when other people comment and it falls flat.
Oh, absolutely. I was, quite consciously, taking 275 as license to gripe mildly without being too concerned about whether the gripe was fair or reasonable.
It's obvious, reading the site, that the vast majority of comments go unremarked upon. At the same time it's occasionally irritating to feel ignored; the most mature reaction is to forget the irritation and move on, but the temptation to gripe still exists.
345: It's obvious, reading the site, that the vast majority of comments go unremarked upon.
And Thank God for that. Otherwise a thread might fail the Cauchy Convergence Test for Internet discussion threads and kill the 'net.
Cauchy Convergence Test for Internet discussion threads
A discussion is convergent, if and only if, for any amount of attention a>0 there is a reply N such that any subsequent subsequence of replies generates less total attention than a.
346 misses the crucial role played by "Comity" in allowing a thread to end gracefully.
And, really, as long as one comment can reply to multiple preceding comments, a thread could still end for any arbitrary ratio of (unremarked upon comments):(all comments)
because people are nodding gravely in agreement,
Me too. The I realize that this is who is nodding.
Who/what defines "a regular"? I rarely see names I haven't seen before. Is there some post threshold? Should we have statistics? And autosigs? In autosigs?
what defines "a regular"?
Once a day without the aid of coffee or laxatives.
Coffee is to laxative as a bullet is to bird shot.
I thought the huge benefit of online personae is that they lack feelings.
It's all about trying different personae on until you find one that fits, no? So, if you are deeply sensitive IRL, you might try out the hard as rocks look. If you are an unfeeling stoic, you might try out vulnerable and weepy. If you're generally well-balanced... Well, geez, I don't know what you'd do then.
If you're generally well-balanced... Well, geez, I don't know what you'd do then.
Not comment on unfogged presumably.
If you're generally well-balanced...
Comment under your own name?
This is one of the huge difficulties in online discussions. The reader perceives a continuous, response-filled conversation when in fact few comments are responses to other comments. There's some stress in learning that individual comments are more a part of a spray pattern and less a part of a continuous thread.
My online persona's huge benefit is its pants.
Each letter I type in a comment box engenders a tear to form in one eye or another--ideally in alternating fashion, though life is not always ideal--a Hogwarts student, as it were, writing with one of those fascist ministry lady's nasty writing pens. For a characteristic run-on sentence, I endure great pains.
The reader perceives a continuous, response-filled conversation when in fact few comments are responses to other comments. There's some stress in learning that individual comments are more a part of a spray pattern and less a part of a continuous thread.
If you pay close attention, most real-life conversation follows a similar pattern.
it's occasionally irritating to feel ignored; the most mature reaction is to forget the irritation and move on, but the temptation to gripe still exists.
Only for the irritatingly passive-aggressive. If you want to not be ignored, keep commenting until someone notices. At which point of course you'll be mocked for your attention-seeking behavior, and you'll fit right in.
If you're generally well-balanced...
Comment under your own name?
Like me and Bob.
Only for the irritatingly passive-aggressive.
Hmmm, is it fair to point out that you're calling me "irritatingly passive-aggressive" in an awfully passive voice.
I probably shouldn't respond to this but, really, that seems a little much. The last paragraph of 297 (in which I said I wanted more appreciation for the links) was dumb, which I knew when I posted it, but intended in a light-hearted way. My griping in 328 was, arguably, ill-mannered but I don't think was out of line. Then you quote from my comment in which I was trying to apologize for having been ill-mannered, and call me "irritatingly passive-aggressive" and I object to that.
If you want to not be ignored, keep commenting until someone notices.
The short answer is that work interferes with that plan.
More seriously, that sounds like a possible commenting style, but I would hope it isn't the only possible style. I enjoy the "shoot from the hip" atmosphere of unfogged, but that isn't my natural style.
360: See, this is what I was getting at in 296. It bugged you, you said how you feel. Bitch may or may not respond, but you probably feel better for having expressed your irritation, right? This is healthy. We're making progress here!
(I'll even jump in to validate you by saying "passive aggressive" was, in fact, a bit much. Feeling irritated that you were ignored is not passive aggressive. Taking random cheap shots because you are irritated about being ignored instead of just saying what you are irritated about is passive aggressive.)
It hurts me that we live under the same big sky.
Is there some agreed upon usage of the term "passive aggressive"? I've never been able to figure out what it means except "some behavior that irritates [the person using the phrase] but does not involve overt bullying." On second thought, maybe that's a good enough definition.
Or:
The term passive-aggressive behavior was coined by military psychiatrists in a 1945 US War Department technical bulletin to describe soldiers who employed a mixture of passive resistance and grumbling compliance.
Damn, Di, don't unexpectedly link to psychiatric conditions I suspect myself of having. Now I'm all twitchy.
Passive-agressive: like how my wife asked me to do the dishes the other night so I "accidently" broke one of her favorite wine glasses while cleaning it. Not really, but that was how she interpreted it. The truth is that I was just drunk, honest. It was her fault for asking me to wash fragile dishes while I was drunk. What did she expect would happen?
332: I thought the huge benefit of online personae is that they lack feelings.
This gets it exactly right, you boring dorks.
Anyhow making people cry on the internet is super fun. You would deny me fun? Mean.
If you're going to suspect yourself of psychiatric conditions, there are far more interesting options than passive aggressiveness (which is no longer recognized as an official diagnosis, according to that first link).
If you're going to be a psychological hypochondriac, personality disorders are the way to go. The following should cover most of Unfogged:
Oh God, that last one pretty much covers half of Unfogged, doesn't it?
Di is trying to make us feel exposed as the personality disorder catalog that we are.
The juxtuposition of the last paragraph of 368 with 369 is amusing and can be read in a variety of ways.
And not to forget borderline personality disorder:
Individuals with BPD display a pattern of dramatic mood swings, irritability, and intense anger. Mood swings typically occur in response to stressful life situations, and in particular to difficulties in interpersonal relationships or interpersonal conflict. Individuals with BPD are intensely sensitive to rejection or perceived abandonment, and when they feel they are being abandoned they often respond with explosive anger or with self-injurious or suicidal behavior. Because these behaviors take a toll on close interpersonal relationships, individuals with BPD often provoke the very rejection and abandonment they fear.
Other BPD symptoms include feelings of emptiness or boredom; identity confusion; and impulsive behavior such as over-spending, risky sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, or binge eating. BPD individuals sometimes display brief stress-related periods of paranoid or irrational thinking. They also tend to think in "black and white" terms, alternating between extremes of idealization (everything is wonderful) and devaluation (everything is terrible).
Seriously, I doubt there's anyone who couldn't find at least one personality disorder that makes them worry, just a little, about their own mental health.
My online persona has histrionic personality disorder. In real life, I'm perfectly well-adjusted, unlike all you mental cases.
Oh God, that last one pretty much covers half of Unfogged, doesn't it?
Yes, and thank you for the attention paid to my link-fest. I'm feeling much better now.
372: also, I can see the future.
grumbling compliance.
Band name?
377: That's Tempting Defiance's evil blogtwin.
I dunno. I actually know people with most of these, and their lives are really really painful. I figure I'm doing pretty fine.
Seriously, BPD is a horrible thing to watch someone and their loved ones go through.
376: I admire you very much for that, Sifu. You are, like, the coolest.
373: My brain keeps turning BPD into BPhD, but that doesn't seem to be affecting the truth-value of the statements much.
381: I know! Say that again, could you?
You forgot:
BAD: Blogger Anxiety Disorder: Individuals with BAD display signs of both obsessive compulsive disorder and histrionic personality disorder. They obsessively check and refresh blogs to see who has responded to their comments. They often swing into deep depression when their comments go unnoticed or are rejected.
Seriously, BPD is a horrible thing to watch someone and their loved ones go through.
Way to ruin the parade of making fun of the mentally ill.
I see a lot of BPD and NPD. Those people cannot stay married.
Avoidant personality disorder
Woo hoo my screwed up personality has a name.
384: If it will make you like me... Really, man, you rock.
Seriously, I doubt there's anyone who couldn't find at least one personality disorder that makes them worry, just a little, about their own mental health.
I worried about my mental health until I met students with actual mental health problems. Not to minimize the pain of graduate school and the associated risk of depression, but there's worrying about your mood swings and then there's needing to be on five drugs a day to keep from twitching and talking to the wall in class.
People with BPD are really into me, and it sucks.
I get upset every time I say something funny and it isn't followed by fifteen people saying "Wow, that's funny, SEK, and I love you."
Hahahaha. Perfect.
Yeah, Bipolarity is no fucking joke. I thank god all the time that I'm merely your garden-variety depressive.
I occasionally wonder if I'm mildly depressed or just cranky, but have never gotten organized enough to figure it out.
I don't think anyone mentioned bipolarity, B. Maybe you're hallucinating.
We were talking Borderline Personality Disorder, but yeah, bipolar is no joke either. I feel much safer around bipolar people though.
Where was BiPolar Bear from? Was he a minor superhero from The Tick, or just a cartoon I saw someplace?
I see a lot of BPD and NPD. Those people cannot stay married.
My folks' best friends were a couple where the man had BPD. They did stay married (though they ended up living separately). His wife was a fucking hero.
OTOH, my mom may have NPD, and my own parents got divorced. But that wouldn't have happened without the interference of my sister, because my dad's ability to simply ignore things is nothing short of inhuman.
No Personality Disorder? Yeah, all those people become political bloggers.
396: Oh, okay. Teach me to skim.
397: BiPolar Bear is from the Tick, yes. Brilliant.
my own parents got divorced. But that wouldn't have happened without the interference of my sister
Blaming kids for divorce is a terrible thing to do, B.
BitchPHd:
If I was trying to be really precise, I would have said, "People married to people with BPD or NPD are either gluttons for punishment, practically saints, or insane themselves.
It is a tough life living with the mentally ill. Wedding vows often say "in sickness or in health," but people don't really contemplate the ravages of mental illness when they say those vows.
401: Oh?
After I left for college, my mom started using my sister as the sounding board for her stories about how miserable she was, how much she wanted a divorce but "couldn't afford it" etc. My sister, being less trained in indulging the circular arguments of crazy people than I was, spent a month or so trying to talk mom through her excuses before going to my dad and saying, "Dad, Mom wants a divorce and I really wish you two would split up because I'd be a lot happier if you were divorced." He moved out the next day.
In keeping with my mother's way of proceeding, she called me and told me she'd "kicked your father out" and I spent the next ten years thinking that my physical presence had somehow created a codependent dynamic that had prevented her from asking for a divorce until after I left. It wasn't until I was around 30 that my sister told me what had happened.
402: The ravages of mental illness and the incredible difficulty of getting help managing them, yeah.
403, clarified: In short, I credit, rather than blame, my sister.
403:
Wouldnt divorce be nice if we could identify the blame so succinctly?
The ravages of mental illness and the incredible difficulty of getting help managing them, yeah.
Absolutely. Shameful.
clarified: In short, I credit, rather than blame, my sister
Yeah, that was pretty obvious--I was just making a (bad) joke. But thanks for all the typing.
389: Yeah, there's a beautiful silver lining to witnessing mental illness first-hand -- it clarifies pretty damn quickly how basically "normal" most of our run-of-the-mill neuroses are. I went through a brief, but serious depression sometime back and will never again say, "I'm so depressed," when I'm basically just bummed out.
390: May be worth thinking about why that is. If there's something about you that screams "target" to these types, it might be worth tweaking a bit. (Say I, from a similarly afflicted place.)
My sister the mental health professional says that borderline personality disorder is impossible for her to work with. Sociopaths are her favorite (Her marriage to the sociopath trained her well). Histrionic borderlines are the worst of all.
She's also had an Aspergie with drug-alcohol problems. From what she said, their difficulties with personal relationships transfer over to their difficulties with bureaucratic structures. It's not just a lack of feely-touchiness or warmth or whatever; it's difficulty in figuring out external demand of any kind.
373:It has been thirty years since my therapists strongly predicted homicide or suicide, the first much more likely than the second. Even with thirty years of evidence, those closest to me are still a little scared. I don't yell or mistreat or abuse the dogs, are much less dominant and controlling than the Lady, yet even the dogs are sometimes frightened.
I can't control the rage (fear?), I can only control its expression and protect most people from the vibe by keeping a distance.
407: Heh. I have some major differences with sis, but I always enjoy telling stories that put her in a good light.
In most of the cases I've known of breakups related to personality disorders, the desire to blame one party or the other is an exercise in sadness and futility. You can't blame the "well one" for leaving to save his/her own sanity (or in my case, life, after numerous murder plots by my bf), but you also have to wonder why the "well one" put so much stock in being around. In short, I think there are probably mirror disorders for a lot of these things. Martyr disorders, ego disorders. Partners who care for someone with a personality disorder are often responsible for keeping that person from getting real professional help and medication.
403, 411: And from that story, she is an example to us all. Remember folks "staying together for the kids" isn't always the best for the kids!
409: My understanding is that BPD and NPD are not only impossible to work with, but damn difficult to diagnose, in part because people with them so often refuse to seek or cooperate with therapy.
Partners who care for someone with a personality disorder are often responsible for keeping that person from getting real professional help and medication.
No. The real lesson is that partners who care for someone with a personality disorder are *not* responsible for that person's problems.
417: Yeah, but how can you know that when you're 20? I lived in pretty crippling guilt about having enabled him not to seek treatment (ironically, by constantly begging him to) for about four years.
417: Which is really hard to learn when you're used to dealing with crazy people, especially if you were a kid, because "managing" their craziness is essential to your sense of survival and you develop the role of the "responsible" one.
BitchPhd and Di are speaking the truth.
Although it is hard to think about your child being left alone with the crazy, but not-so-crazy-as-to-not-get-visitation ex.
Thank you for writing 403. I have a friend to who will, I believe, appreciate that story.
There are ways "healthy" partners/kids enable the NPD spouse or parent, but this has to be distinguished from being responsible for it. Like B said in 420, we find ways to manage it that we may never even recognize until we finally get out and get some distance/perspective.
421: Thanks for the reminder, Will.
Anyway, if you have any sociopaths, send them to my sister, and she'll straighten them out, but you're stuck with your NPDs and BPDs. Sorry guys.
A court order helps too.
A court order helps too.
In so very many situations.
419: You probably can't; I'm not blaming, just pointing out.
418: Nothing's worse than self-involved cops.
Although it is hard to think about your child being left alone with the crazy, but not-so-crazy-as-to-not-get-visitation ex.
Yeah. My heroic friend lived with her husband until the kids were adults. And I'd hate for the courts to just make a blanket decision that kids shouldn't be able to see a parent who's mentally ill. But I do really wish that decisions about visitation and custody were about the kids, rather than about parent's "rights."
This guy has a take on Self-Deprecating Narcissists:
I can afford to be magnanimously forgiving of my own shortcomings because they are so outweighed by my gifts and by my widely known achievements or traits.
Since I have no gifts or achievements, this clearly does not apply to me.
(And I don't think that it's necessarily in a kid's best interest to have no contact with a fucked up parent, either; kids love their parents, by and large, and what kids with fucked up parents need is support, help, and safety--not blanket "protection" from the fact that their parents have serious problems.)
I've been close to a few people who had bipolar family members, and it was an unbelievably destructive force in their lives. I've never gotten around to identifying what kind of crazy my mother is (although this discussion is making me feel kind of motivated to try), but similarly, my entire adult life has been one realization after another of ways in which my reacting to her crazy shaped me. Most kinds of crazy people probably shouldn't have kids.
And sociopaths shouldn't have lovers; I dated one for a while and it's news to me that there's anything that can be done for them. Is that for real, John?
Most kinds of crazy people probably shouldn't have kids.
I dunno. Yes, crazy parents can be a serious cross to bear, but kids are people too, and they can learn to deal with that shit in remarkably mature and fabulous ways if they've got some support from somewhere.
I am tempted not to acknowledge that Di answered my question.
433: Overly mature ways, I think. Kids are resilient, yes, but only because their personalities are so pliable that they are willing to allow themselves to be harmed to a great degree in order to allow their parents, who are less flexible, to be themselves.
435: Eh. I think I came out pretty good, and so did the boys whose dad was crazy destructive BP. At least, I think they're both really fabulous men.
435: and being that most of us here are much more likely to be parents than kids, we should be unashamedly exploiting that dynamic.
much more likely to be parents than kids
Where'd *you* come from?
A distant mountaintop, it is rumored.
438 One woman's parent, is another woman's kid.
Maybe that was a euphemism for "drunk?"
"Mommy where'd I come from?" "Aw, cor, ya'z knitted, lass!" "Mommy, why are you speaking in a comical brogue?" "Blimey!"
My mom wouldn't lie. She might, however, be prone to blushing and fond of euphemisms that grow more ridiculous with the years.
Don't worry, Cala, you'll learn it all when you get to college.
I already got there and that's the truth.
Thanks for the reminder, Will.
I aim to please.
Kids are not entitled to the best parents. If so, none of us would be allowed to be around our children.
Give them the tools to deal with crazy people.
"You are responsible for your own emotions. The only person who controls mommy [or daddy's] emotions is mommy."
"Who decides whether mommy is happy?"
Mommy. Not you.
Cerebrocrat: She can get them to stop drinking. You get a sober sociopath that way.
Actually, I don't know. But she finds the ex-cons and hard guys easiest to work with.
Who.
Who?
Knock knock.
Who's there?
Philip Glass.
Yay redfox!
Say, speaking of personality disorders, I will be spending tomorrow evening at the Midway bar in Jamaica Plain, watching this man play actual (non-air) records and celebrating a certain mystery unfoggenter's birthday. Boston types: jooooooiiiiin uuuuuuuss!
Dealing with someone with schizoaffective disorder is no picnic. Bipolar people who are being treated aren't necessarily all that bad.
Borderline Personality disorder is very tough. It's interesting to me that Marsha Linehan's Dialectical Behavior Therapy which was developed for treating borderlines, mainly female ones is now being studied as a treatment for bipolar disorder. (One of the theories about the origins of borderline PD is that it arises out of an invalidation of emotions which are subjectively extreme.) Some of the mindfulness techniques are useful for depressed people and healthy people too.
B in 392: Yeah, Bipolarity is no fucking joke. I thank god all the time that I'm merely your garden-variety depressive.
Bipolar II, Bipolar Not Otherwise Specified and Bipolar III (the last is not recognized by DSM IV; it refers to hypomania induced by antidepressants) aren't any worse than regular depression. In fact, if you can't be normal it's better to have periods of energy and creativity than not. Being easily distracted and unable to sit still aren't fun.
Hagop Akiskal is fairly controversial, but he posits a bipolar spectrum which includes bipolar I, bipolar II, cyclothymia (never quite getting depressed), hyperthymia (tigger types with high energy and confidence) and a few unipolars. B, I strongly suspect that you fall somewhere on the bipolar spectrum, but I don't want to engage in internet diagnosis.
Shorter version: your comment was fucking obnoxious.
Manic periods are fresh. Who wouldn't want that? B, of course: there's a reason trolls live under bridges.
I am also a big fan of placing increasing numbers of disorders on spectra. Why ought anything brain-related be on/off? Even individual neurons aren't on/off, particularly.
I just wanted to see if I could change my name to my old nickname.
I am also a big fan of placing increasing numbers of disorders on spectra. Why ought anything brain-related be on/off? Even individual neurons aren't on/off, particularly.
Indeed. At that's even before you get into how laughably shallow our understanding of how one might translate behavior patterns into any sort of underlying mechanism.
Not that I have any better ideas as to how one might approach things, of course.
Computers!
Now that's not shallow.
Shorter version: your comment was fucking obnoxious.
As the self-appointed ambassador of nice (ATM), this seemed a little much. It seemed to me all B was trying to say was, "I count my blessings, because I know what struggles I have could easily be worse."
452: tomorrow night meaning tonight?? Finally a meetup that's just a short walk from my apartment -- how could I not be there?
You've lost you chance, Tweety.
I did?
I'm still going.
Show starts at 10PM.
See you there, Brock!
Unfortunately I've now accepted another engagement for the evening.
Pfft. Not as good as DJ Nitetrain.
It should go 'til 2, in any case.
