Every time I go shopping for clothes I am disappointed that I can't find something exactly like the thing I am trying to replace.
I think there's a vast worldwide conspiracy to force me to layer clothing items. I never had to do that before, but now, all tops have necklines down to the belly button so you have to wear a tank underneath, or they're so sheer it would be shocking and horrible to wear it out of the house without a tank underneath. Is the tanktop lobby that powerful?
Huh. I hadn't thought of this, but yeah -- I won't layer because I'm too lazy (I really can't keep track of having multiple coordinated garments all clean at the same time), and it really does cut into the things I can buy lately.
In that vein, I have a first date tonight, and I am sick of wearing the same thing to all my first dates. I just don't have enough supercute clothes that don't look too dressy.
Yes. We are supposed to be layering like mad this year.
By and large, I buy most of my clothes in the same sort of color palette: olive green, dark blue, taupe, butter yellow, coral red, warm gray... Anything that doesn't match into this schema doesn't get worn and so eventually gets given away.
1 - And yet all of the things I would like to buy an exact replacement for (bras, underwear, workshoes) always get discontinued.
I'd like to take this opportunity to officially endorse unlayered, sheer clothing for women. Don't let the terrorists win, ladies!
Layering is not a good look for me. I don't need all that extra fabric. Also, a lot of the shirts that are just-too-sheer-enough aren't ones that make sense to have a tank underneath. They're just poorly made, IMO. (But still cost what they should if they were lined.)
re: 2
I see a lot of younger people wearing those super-lowcut necklines with nothing underneath; with people wearing clothes that 5 years ago I would have thought of as for 'clubbing' as everyday wear.
But yeah, my wife complains a lot about shirts and things that she buys for work, that the material is too sheer for a professional environment but to heavy to layer properly.
There are some new colors coming in that I like a lot, like bright, heavily saturated, slightly cool greens (like that T I wore to the picnic, Becks) and very bright reds. It's not as flattering on me as the red from two or three years ago that was leaning toward the blue, but it's still pretty nice. Also, a lot of the cloth is very lightweight, which can be nice, because even if it means clothes wear out way too fast, one can layer without looking like a mummy.
I picked up several extremely lightweight T's and tanks at J Crew a few months ago and have been grateful for them.
(and they were on sale, and probably are again, with the end of summer)
Also, re: 9 - get off my lawn...
and they were on sale, and probably are again, with the end of summer
My, that looks nice...
11: Oh, man. I picked up a JCrew tshirt earlier in the summer (had a very embarrassing morning -- I wore an old sheath dress to work, not even all that tight, and the back seam just gave way about six inches up the back. I was walking around NY with my ass hanging out. So I ducked into JCrew to buy an outfit) and those tshirts are sheer. I was crossing my arms over my tits all day.
I look dumb in sweaters, always have. Other people look adorable and cozy in them, and I am jealous.
Is this where I tell you you should be wearing the same thing every day or where I complain that you're posting about trivialities when you could be posting about Paris Hilton?
I think in California people can wear the same thing (or the same kind of thing) every day. It's a different culture, man.
This is the huge advantage to stay-home momhood. I no longer have to give a rat's ass about looking professional, and have taken to wearing the sheer tops over a bra in a contrasting color. On purpose. It's a look, I'm telling you.
Today I am wearing a ridiculous cotton dress I bought at Target (not see-through, but rather than weird frontier woman thing that's coming back into style for god only knows what reason) with my ridiculous Betsey Johnson colored rhinestone leather belt Baby Phat white/gold/rhinestone cork wedge thongs. It's all about the accessories undercutting the ridiculously frontier pleated bib front on the dress, which is otherwise a nicely off-white thick stripey cotton.
Unfortnately, this outfit is not exactly good for going bike shopping in, which was kind of my big plan for the day. Maybe I'll bring along a different pair of shoes or something.
Also, sweaters completely suck. So uncomfortable! So bulky! So inevitably too warm once you get inside!
Technically, AWB, you could wear the same kind of thing every day too.
I'm wearing a cardigan right now, because it's unseasonably cold. All the sweater-haters should try thin sweaters.
my ridiculous Betsey Johnson colored rhinestone leather belt and my even more ridiculous Baby Phat white/gold/rhinestone cork wedge thongs.
Edited because the clarity of my ridiculous outfit is of UTMOST IMPORTANCE.
Stay-at-home working, however, requires dressing as if for the office, or my standards go all to hell. You've got to look crisp and buttoned-down to distinguish working on the couch from relaxing after work on the same couch.
22: I do for teaching. My students think I have one outfit with replaceable parts. But I hate going out in the same kind of thing all the time. I need new shapes and colors.
sweaters completely suck
Crazy talk.
The problem with thin sweaters is that if they're *too* thin and you're anything other than rail-thin yourself, they just kind of ride around on whatever you're wearing underneath and look too small or otherwise fail to hang properly.
There are such a thing as decent sweaters, I know. But they're surprisingly difficult to find.
I love sweaters. All my emo-ness needs tight, vintage sweaters to contain it.
You've got to look crisp and buttoned-down to distinguish working on the couch from relaxing after work on the same couch.
Nonsense. At-home not working = pajamas. At-home working = anything else.
re: 21
I have some great super-thin sweaters from Zara. In interestingly [sort of dark mustardy green and bright orange] colours. Very practical, very warm when outside but very light so not bulky at all.
Unfortunately, very clingy, so they look like crap if you have a paunch.
Memo to storeowners: the reason I'm going shopping is because I sick of the stuff I already have. I don't want to buy it again.
? I usually hear the exact opposite complaint. My fiancee goes to stores that she has gone to before, expecting to have things that are like what she owns, but newer, and she gets annoyed to see that everything is now pastel instead of black, or has stupid-looking turtlenecks instead of regular necks, or that all the belts are wide now. Be careful what you wish for.
Plus, you rich snob, some people want to replace their current wardrobe with updated versions of clothes that are getting worn out, instead of expanding and expanding and expanding their wardrobe.
I kind of like those shiny Bathing Ape shoes. I know I could never wear them, but I like seeing them around.
Oh, the talk of sweaters and cold weather makes me want to wear this little, thick gray-and-yellow argyle sweater vest I got at a clothes swap that some girl's grandmother wore to prep school in the 40's. That would be kind of a cute date outfit, with a man's dress shirt and a skirt, right?
this little, thick gray-and-yellow argyle sweater vest I got at a clothes swap that some girl's grandmother wore to prep school in the 40's. That would be kind of a cute date outfit, with a man's dress shirt and a skirt, right?
Yes! Yes, it would.
All my emo-ness needs tight, vintage sweaters to contain it.
Your emo-ness truly is the vanguard of the proletariat.
re: 34
Yes. Tweedy coat and inappropriate shoes, optional.
I hate the layering trend. I'll admit to not being good at fashion. It's years of midwest thriftiness. Get the black, it goes with everything, when will you wear that, etc.
But this needing to buy several tank tops, all of which cost the same as one opaque tank top, because sheer and layered is in? Bullfeathers. And the layering doesn't seem to work right on me. I just end up looking rumpled.
It's funny...I love to layer (tee, sweater, one of my vast collection of shawls) in autumn, but I absolutely hate to layer and will not do so in spring or summer. And this has nothing to do with actual temperature; it's more that spring/summer layering tends to coordinate in different ways than fall/winter and I don't care for that.
Of course, all my clothes are black or grey or chocolate brown anyway. (You think I kid? I do not.) This makes it difficult to avoid looking gothy; today I'm wearing a loose black knit shirt of an offensively contemporary cut and black pants and I feel that it looks rather affected. I would wear all grey all the time if I could find grey clothes.
The trouble is, whether I'm fatter or thinner, I have wide shoulders and not much in the hips and so an awful lot of stylish clothes don't suit me--clingy, dainty things and adorably girlish knits (or godferbid ruffles) just make me look weird. I'm going to trend back into my more mannish college style this year, I think. My only surviving college photo shows me in a vast grey German overcoat, a vast white collarless shirt, what I presume are some sort of trousers and a sort of Bowie-glam haircut. I looked quite good, though perhaps a little confusing for Minneapolis.
Seriously, wear the black one under everything. Or brown/tan, if you're wearing it under something bright yellow or orange.
I have about 14 sweaters and I wear the 5 of them that aren't bulky. The others just sit there unless the power goes out or I'm spending the entire day tramping around in the snow for some reason.
I am wearing two cardigan sweaters right now.
Everyone ends up looking rumpled. The advantage to the layering is that the old camisoles you already own that have stains on them can function as the underlayer underneath another camisole that's, say, too short or too low cut or whatever.
At least that's the only reason I do it. That and I wear something over the BITCH PHD tank top my sister gave me for Xmas, because I just can't really bring myself to wander around in public with a shirt that says BITCH PHD on it for some reason.
In winter I wear sweaters over tank tops a lot because the buildings are always too warm. I haven't really developed a teaching wardrobe yet. One of the girls in my department got pulled aside by her adviser and told to dress more appropriately (business casual rather than sweatshirts), but my adviser seems to think as long as I'm not teaching naked who cares.
vast grey German overcoat
Last year, I bought a really great 60s* dark grey wool Crombie overcoat. I'm hoping it gets nice and cold this winter.
* as in actual 60s, rather than something retro but new.
42: Because it's offensive, or because it would be like wearing a T with your own name on it?
Am I the only person in the world who doesn't really like black?
Goodwill!! I'm telling you, I find the best stuff there, both things I can't find anymore and slightly groovier things that I'm not sure if I can pull off but am willing to spend $3 to find out. It's a pain to cull through the racks, but even I can find things to fit my freakishly tall self.
45: Kind of the former, but I think it's the combo of the Bad Word + PhD that bugs me most. Not b/c it identifies, but b/c it sort of draws attention to itself and emphasizes the offensiveness of the offensiveness, if that makes sense.
Great title, not a great tshirt slogan. At least not for ye suburban mommie.
Ironically, a T-shirt with your name on it is crass, but a T-shirt with your own face on it would be awesome.
All this talk is making me want to take a trip to Beacon's Closet before I get dressed for this date.
The link in 48 has crossed the line from horrifying-but-funny to simply obnoxious, apo.
46: Oh, I like colorful clothes just fine; all that Bits and Bobbins stuff is really cute. Just not on me. I get a kind of dysphoric feeling if I'm wearing bright clothes, and I find that I lose confidence in myself. I tend to avoid dresses for similar reasons.
52 is wrong. And why would it be horrifying at all?
46: I don't, particularly. It doesn't suit my complexion and I tend to wear the hell out of things so black fades unpleasantly after a while.
54: Because apo's links are usually horrifying but funny, Ned.
53: I don't mean disliking color in and of itself; more like what Cala's saying. Black just doesn't look good on me unless I wear makeup or something to counteract the pale ghostly effect.
53: That's odd. I wear a lot of black out of habit, but my really bright clothes are the ones I feel happiest and most sociable in. That sounds dumb, I know, but something about a really bright green makes my eyes and hair more intense.
I'm wearing a t-shirt from one of my grad program's annual retreats. You tend to see several such shirts around here on any week; it's the closest thing we have to a uniform. This particular shirt is a depiction of a man holding a brain while sitting in a somewhat Thinkeresque pose amongst some neurons.
The disheartening thing is that each shirt is labeled with the year of the retreat at which it was dispensed, and thus putting on an older one of these shirts can force you to reflect on how long you've been in the program relative to how much you've gotten done, as I am doing now.
re: black
My wife went through a phase last year and earlier this year of wearing a lot of retro-looking 50s style dresses. In black.
It was a cool look but it did look a little like she was rocking some combination of "Ilse of the SS" and that Japanese Gothic Lolita thing.
a T-shirt with your own face on it would be awesome
Or, even better, a t-shirt of yourself wearing a t-shirt of another lefty writer (were you yourself in fact actually a lefty writer).
Don't know how many of you are familiar with Rick Perlstein's and Scott McLemee's writing, but a few years back there was this awesomeness.
Ttam, you are a most awesome guy, but your descriptions of Mrs. Ttam lead me to suspect you're just a little bit overchicked, aren't you?
"apo's links are usually horrifying but funny"
re: 61
I posted a wedding photo ages ago. I believe that was the general consensus, yes. However, my own innate arrogance leads me to believe that those who think so, just haven't look hard enough.
57: I feel much more sociable in dark clothes of simple cut; I keep trying to wear bright clothes to parties and it just makes me nervous. Part of this is familial; it is accounted almost a sin to take any notice of your appearance amongst most Frowners, and so while I'm actually very fussy about clothes I'm not comfortable with fancy ones. Part of it is that I feel that bright colors are...I don't quite know; fancy, or girlish, or something. When I wear colorful clothes I feel like I'm trying to charm, and that makes me uneasy.
I don't know, Becks. I prefer to throw away one item and get it's exact duplicate. Steady state fashion.
Of course, they stopped making the cheap and not lame merino sweater-thingies I love so much. Now I'm bereft.
Unfogged: a blog about the important issues of the day like bras, sheer tops, cheating on online contests, and breakfast choices for the fastidious OCD blogger.
63: I completely approve of innate arrogance of exactly that type, and for the record I was speaking strictly in terms of fashionability.
Well, that and a bit of a presumption that Czech women are all super gorgeous.
Well, that and a bit of a presumption that Czech women are all super gorgeous.
Sizeist.
Heh. My midwife was a Czech supermodel's mother, and looks it. My father met her in the hospital, and six years later still mentions her wistfully on occasion.
66 That's what we DC types care about, will.
Although you can talk about bras being unimportant when you're a D-cup-thank-you-very-much.
something to counteract the pale ghostly effect.
Heavens, why would you want to counteract that?
Frowner's right, will: you need to develop more respect for brassieres.
Although you can talk about bras being unimportant when you're a D-cup-thank-you-very-much.
He probably is, at his age.
71: Because I'm not dating 20-something emo hipster types?
re: 67
Yes, she is super gorgeous. I have sent you a message on facebook [not posting links on here]...
A Czech exchange student stayed with us once. He brought his Czech wife to see us last weekend. She is smoking hot. Thus, all Czech women must be smoking hot.
Apo, they also brought Czech wine. Not bad.
71: Pale is occasionally very stunning. Sometimes, though, it just looks sickly. I am one of those people who becomes very pale in the winter and glows a little blue; it's not like I radiate royal wealth and delicate warmth when I've been inside reading too much.
Frowner, everyone needs a support.
NattarG's wife is super hot. I somehow had pictured him as a big burly guy.
Of course, Czech men are also completely gorgeous, until they turn 30 and the alcoholism starts to take its toll.
I am one of those people who becomes very pale in the winter and glows a little blue;
Just like skim milk.
Yes. I am the skim milk of ladies.
There are some new colors coming in that I like a lot, like bright, heavily saturated, slightly cool greens (like that T I wore to the picnic, Becks) and very bright reds.
Sob. These are (among the many) colors that look horrible on me. Also I resent the way that summer clothes often only come in "summer" colors, i.e. colors that look horrible on me.
I love sweaters, but am sick of the trend where all the sweaters on sale are made of cheap cashmere. I don't want cashmere, I want some nice flat-knit chunky wool and cotton blend, please.
Heavens, why would you want to counteract that?
I have too many yellowish undertones in my skin to pull of the pale consumptive look and black seems to exacerbate the yellowness. I have a good complexion, but it's more peaches and butter than peaches and cream, especially once I freckle in the summer.
re: 77
It is, indeed, often true. A bunch of friends of mine flew out from Scotland to Prague for a birthday. One of the Scottish girls, really very much not unattractive herself, said she was getting bored of being introduced to girls who looked like supermodels.
I'm beginning to think that Cala and I have the same coloring. All gold undertones rather than pink, yup. Looks crappy in black, yup.
From the Umbridge dress-up pics you posted, pretty close, except I think I'm a little paler.
83: I feel your pain, as I look like crap in pale spring colors. I am deeply annoyed by pale greens, pinks, corals, purples, beiges, etc. They all make me look disgusting and washed-out. I look fine in white-white and black-black and really strong, vibrant, cool colors.
Okay, I'm going shopping. Thinking about this is making me hate anything I could possibly wear tonight. Mr. Pastry Chef will be in olive and yellow.
88: I look terrible in those too! They make me look either lavender or mint green. Not good. I think muddy or dark tertiary colors are about all I can do -- dark red, teal, dark grey, olive. And black and white, or at least so I tell myself.
I hate jewel tones in primary colors on me. More corals and yellows and pinks and aquas and chocolates!
They're so sheer it would be shocking and horrible to wear it out of the house without a tank underneath
Shocking, maybe. Horrible, never.
Seriously, there was a distinct trend toward the sheer top, no bra, semi-visible boobs look in France in the late 90s. I found it pretty darned irresistable.
87: Agreed.
Do you know what's really lame and embarrassing, re. colors-that-flatter one, is that when I was in high school I spent more than a few hours shamefacedly browsing the public library stacks where the style and fashion books were, never checking the books out and being careful not to get caught reading them, but dammit, it really helped to spend some time thinking about all that 80s-era "what season are you?" and "are you sporty/dramatic/casual/tailored?" kind of thing.
the sheer top, no bra, semi-visible boobs look
Perfectly fine for small-breasted women. For everyone else, just buy pretty bras.
Goodwill!! I'm telling you, I find the best stuff there, both things I can't find anymore and slightly groovier things that I'm not sure if I can pull off but am willing to spend $3 to find out. It's a pain to cull through the racks, but even I can find things to fit my freakishly tall self.
Hell yeah. Seriously, there may be something special in the Austin water that makes people donate so much amazing clothes to Goodwill. From the eccentric vintage to the homely eightnies to the nice, new boring crap I wear to work.
Here's an easy solution: become completely ignorant about what looks good on you. Then you can just wear whatever you want, and shopping becomes very simple.
91 please overlook spelling error
I think you have to have the right kind of nipples to make that look work. The soft, pointy kind, as here, look beautiful. Any other kind of nipple would look weird.
Perfectly fine for small-breasted women
Not to generalize too wildly, but this seemed to include most of the adult female population of France, so it worked nicely in that environment.
Yellows and aquas make me look sort of green. The whole south florida color scheme in general makes me feel like a hunched over immigrant from the Old Country who's trying to pass.
Plus, you rich snob, some people want to replace their current wardrobe with updated versions of clothes that are getting worn out, instead of expanding and expanding and expanding their wardrobe.
No, no. That's definitely part of it for me, too. I need to get things that are old/falling apart/no longer look good on me out of rotation. I just don't want to replace them with the exact same thing. I'm sick of it already!
92: You know, I tried, but I could never figure out what my style was, because there was such a disconnect between what I wanted to be and what I fundamentally was, fashion-wise. E.g., the striking black eyeliner with the teal shadow looks amazing on the model, and so does the bubble skirt paired with the corset, but it's like I have a wholesome forcefield that would just make it look weird.
101: Yes, for example, I'd like an infinite number of tiny variations on black cotton shirts...peter pan collars, french cuffs, nehru collars, frogging rather than buttons, damasked fabric and so on. The essential black-cotton-shirtiness should remain unchanged, but the superficial details should vary. And then I'd like the same again in maybe a light grey and a dark charcoal color and a few in a deep brown and maybe one in blue violet for special occasions. Plus about ten pairs of good-quality wide-legged pants in the same colors and one eighties-looking awkward mid-calf skirt in black. And a couple of long cardigans in merino with pockets. That would probably hold me for the next few years, provided that some of the shirts were summer-weight.
I took me forever to figure out what to wear today.
Gray suit or black suit?
Blue shirt or white?
Pink tie or orange?
am sick of the trend where all the sweaters on sale are made of cheap cashmere
Also, the cheap cashmere trend + the low V neck trend makes no sense. "Hey! Let's make a super soft and comfy sweater and then cut it so low that you have to wear something under it so you can't feel the super soft and comfy fabric! Brilliant!"
I love summers, when the office goes business casual. I have four dresses that I just wear all the time. One garment, plus underwear and shoes. No decisions.
100: Send your ridiculous tropicals to me and I'll ship you down some black, okay?
102: I bet you could totally do bubble skirt + corset, Cala. Wholesome looks fabulous paired with slightly tongue-in-cheek.
I also have the wholesome problem. Sometimes wearing unwholesome clothes goes well with it (gothy, slutty), and sometimes not (makes me look like a donkey dressed up as a sheep).
I have good suits + jackets and good hangin' out clothes, but i'm a mess at business casual.
109: I've been around. I just take my fashion-hatred as a personal choice, not a moral imperative.
Update: The Hotness Contest article is now THE front-page article on Salon, complete with a big weird Photoshopped picture. This is ridiculous.
I have good suits + jackets and good hangin' out clothes, but i'm a mess at business casual.
Just wear your suits sans jacket and tie. Problem solved.
Generally I look good in tailored stuff. Back when I was less fat, I could get away with tailored-to-the-point-of-tight, which did a nice job of being both wholesome and, well, not. Now I'm in a weird place where dressing well in a way that's appropriate to my age but not frumpy is starting to look like an expensive proposition, and, well, I just don't know what to do about that so I've been doing a lot of who-gives-a-shit with a little bit of yeah-its-ridiculous-I'm-amused-by-it thrown in.
Sigh. Also my fucking bra size changed recently for the first time since I was fucking 18. SO annoying.
Man, that is a really bad photoshop job. A picture of stage lights? (Or, more accurately, scaffolding holding stage lights?) Random screenshots of computer code in the corners?
Well, I believe Salon swaps in some trivial article late in the day most days...that is, even more trivial than the usual ones. But still, oh Unfogged, what a blog you are!
114: I think it's totally hilarious and awesome. Yay for Salon.
The article itself doesn't really seem to demonstrate that it gets the humor of everyone involved--Unfogged is "humorously wonky" and popular with D.C. insiders? I thought it was just, you know, the flophouse and friends. But everyone quoted in the article is funny, and the (typically) inane and smug Salon commenters kind of make me suspect that Manjoo (and probably the rest of the Salon staff) sort of enjoy tweaking their readers....
there may be something special in the Austin water that makes people donate so much amazing clothes to Goodwill.
Can you ship it east? My mom lives in a town where a significant fraction of the population range from wealthy to Oh-My-God and yet I've never found anything at all very amazing in the thrift stores there. I can only shake my head at the thought of such stinginess.
Tropical clothes to B, Magical water to Populuxe. Yes and yes. Anyone else?
123: I would like one of those indescribable documents, Heebie Luis Borges.
I would like one of those indescribable documents,
It's like a heffalump crossed with a unicorn, sprinkled with imps. I'm really not doing it justice, though.
117: Excluding the pregnancy, I'm assuming.
I think I'd look like a candy balloon in a bubble skirt. More things need to have bodices. My wedding dress? Fit great. I have a body apparently made for a different time.
But wholesome-but-not is fun. I can rock a Catholic schoolgirl look even though technically I was never a Catholic-school girl.
So you should be all about the corsets. I was thinking that -- it's a good look on the stacked-but-not-willowy.
inane and smug Salon commenters
Indeed.
LB is coming around
...the mountain when she comes.
126.1: Well yeah.
126.2: Bubble skirt with bodicy thing, yes! Candy balloon is the point, dude. But definitely, if the corset/bodice thing works for you? There you go.
So you should be all about the corsets.
I'm suffering a failure of imagination: on what kind of occasion does one wear a corset (in public)?
The opera? The coffee-house? The museum? The record store? A walk in the park?
on what kind of occasion does one wear a corset (in public)?
B wore one to UnfoggeDCon.
Depending on the garment in question, any dressy occasion. I may be misusing the word corset -- I just mean a strapless top with enough structure that it acts as a bra. What I'd call a bodice if it were attached to a strapless dress.
B wore one to UnfoggeDCon.
I know, but how many UnfoggeDCon-type occasions are there?
If you've got sufficient umph and &eaute;lan, you can wear a corset wherever you damn well please.
None. UnfoggeDCon was sui generis.
élan, that is. Says the woman in the two cardigans.
Jackmormon is filled to bursting with &eaute;lan.
I know, but how many UnfoggeDCon-type occasions are there?
A commone lament. Not nearly enough.
If your corset is too small, your &eaute;lan will runneth over.
Some have élan, some &eute;lan, and then there are those of us who have oat lan.
Now I'm in a weird place where dressing well in a way that's appropriate to my age but not frumpy is starting to look like an expensive proposition,
Story of my life. When I hit 40, the price of okay clothing seemed to double. Of course, that was when I got a real job.
stacked-but-not-willowy
Isn't this more common than the two combined?
Also I would be wary of anyone filled to the brim with ortolan.
I suppose I could have said stacked-rather-than-willowy.
I am stacked and willowy, and overflowing with lan.
But but but but. Wearing a corset if you're stacked makes people stare!
(parsimon runs around waving her arms in the air in alarm -- stop staring, what are you staring at, don't stare!)
Ahem. Really, I can't bring myself to wear things that make people stare unless, well,
Actually, this isn't making any sense given that I do other things that make some people stare.
Nevermind, then.
Not for nothing, but if I were to want to buy clothes that departed from my long standing fashion ethic (eerily well-described in 64), is there some place online I could ogle people wearing candidates? Like sartorialist, except for normal people.
I am stacked and not willowy. Oaky, possibly. Maple-y, maybe.
149: I figure they're probably staring anyway. At least that was how I rationalised moving from overlarge T-shirts to clothes that actually fit.
Maple-y, maybe.
The Canada is rubbing off on you.
The Canada is rubbing off on you.
It's ok, they're married now.
The Canada is rubbing off on you.
I was betting you were going to mention the sappy, sticky substance.
Everybody has seen these photos, right? There's a Rambo joke in there somewhere.
Stacked and willowy is the gold standard of American [male] fantasy. It goes back to the veldt.
Vladimir is kinda hott. Helloooo, strongman.
Short and squat is the new stacked and willowy. I'm heralding it in; it is a happy day.
I prefer soccer girl thighs to Kate Moss any day.
The opera? The coffee-house? The museum? The record store? A walk in the park?
I knew multiple people in high school and college who would wear corsets on any of the above occasions. Good times.
One of them was the owner of the first or second set of tits I had ever seen in person—she mentioned having recently gotten her nipples pierced and I asked to see. Surprisingly, that worked; fortunately, her boyfriend wasn't nearby.
the first or second set of tits
You don't think much of us, do you, Ben?
Oh no. I've committed some awful gaffe. Or maybe ogged is incredulous that I've seen any. Shit. I shouldn't comment until my head is perfectly clear. This is a disaster.
the owner of the first or second set of tits
Who has two sets of tits?
Surprisingly, that worked; fortunately, her boyfriend wasn't nearby
I'm guessing that's it, and you weren't able to leverage it. Would be true of me.
I'm amused that Ben feigns not knowing which the "first set" was. I can only guess at his reasons, but my guesses all crack me up.
123: Can you do cure for the common cold, Heebie?
Stop macking on the youngsters, Will.
A little sensitive about your Kate Moss thighs, are you?
Presumably he doesn't remember if he ever saw both of his mom's at the same time.
I just got back from shopping. I bought everything I tried on at Beacon's, which is good, but absolutely nothing that would look cute for my date. Sigh.
Speaking of breasts and nipples, anyone else read in National Geographic about the Irish blog people?
Apparently, you showed your respect by kissing the King's nipples.
Wait--necktie under sweater vest on the first date: too kinky?
Or--black sweater with black skirt and polka-dot stiletto maryjanes: also too kinky?
Depends if you're wearing a shirt as well.
Yes, the shirt in question would be a man's Dior button-down that I found, cut sections out of to make it fit me, and sewed back up with little red X's. It's a little punk.
167: Seriously. Looks like Ben's mother probably has bigger complaints than "You never call!"
Way to go, AWB, we were just settling in for a solid fifty comments making fun of Ben.
178: Whoops. I didn't realize this was the Serious Important Mocking Ben Thread.
Looks like Ben's mother probably has bigger complaints than "You never call!"
Maybe not. Some women refuse to breastfeed even now. A colleague of mine was categorical about it; I didn't feel like pursuing it.
Few remember their suckling years. Certainly I don't. Ogged perhaps does, but I don't want to ask why.
I haven't been on a first date in a while, but I'm excited about the polka-dot mary janes.
Nipple piercings weird me out. I'd worry about getting them caught on things.
the Irish blog people
Kieran and his ilk? I knew they seemed odd.
You must stop brushing your bare breasts up against kids with braces.
185: Me too. They aren't open-toed, though, and I did just get a fabulous red pedicure. Arg. I may try on everything. (I also don't like the idea of looking all goth and shit on a first date.)
I thought you were a cornfed blond midwestern girl. How goth can you get?
I thought you were mostly cruising, AWB, not looking so much for the long-term relationship? If that's right, I vote for the sweater-skirt-stiletto combo.
189: True. I do have the wholesomeness problem you described above. This means I can either look extra-kinky or like a poseur. The guy's a real sweetheart, I think. I dunno. I have those hot red Viktor & Rolf kitten heels that I wore on a date back in May, and I like them, but they make me walk a little funny.
190: No, I need to get a boyfriend so I have someone to take to the 9/5 Matt & Kim show. Plus, I'm kind of in the mood to try dating someone I actually like.
They aren't open-toed, though
Dude, it's fucking cold out there today.
Yeah, it's pretty drizzly. And I was being glib in 192. I actually am open to the possibility of a stable relationship.
I think AWB should post pictures, because I am bored, and I hate this chapter. Then we can decide for her.
a stable relationship
My approach to looking for a stable, longer-term relationship is definitely to start with open-toed stilettos with bright-red toenails.
Hey, AWB (and others), would it be just stupid to buy beige goatskin suede pants? They're high-waisted, wide-legged, and fit me exactly right. Ralph Lauren label, a bit pricy for 2ndhand at $60.
197: Yeah, you're right. I'm going to go put on some mom jeans and a Yankees T and watch the sparks fly! It'll be magical!
Commenter 198, re the leather pants: sounds like a good deal. Leather pants are expensive. If you'd wear them a lot, I'd go for it.
I love my pretty red toes! I want to take off my shoes and wiggle them.
I need to redo my toenail polish. They're orange! and flaking.
(We're gaying up the blo-og, we're gaying up the blo-og.)
A lightish beige, like sand. I'm not sure how much I'd wear them. If people didn't point and stare, maybe all the time: the pants really are comfortable.
OMG, I totally forgot how much I love these polka-dot shoes. They're a little uncomfortable, so I'm thinking of bringing a back with other shoes in them, but I don't really want to be hampered by the bag. Hrm.
And JM: $60 is a steal for those pants, and I have no doubt that you are frighteningly stunning in them. Get.
a back with other shoes in them
Like Mr. Potatohead!
I'd go for it. (Assuming I had different legs.)
Yayyyy, permission! (Now watch, someone will have bought them.)
I would expect them to get grubby real quick.
Okay, I went with: cute, squarish thin black short-sleeved sweater with silk poofy shiny black skirt, polka dot maryjanes, fake-turquoise chunky bracelet and adorable little turquoise-and-mother-of-pearl dangly bird earrings. Fluffy messy hair. Very light lip tint with venomy lip gloss.
Cat fight?
John, it's just me apparently sounding like a prude.
And yeah, JM should definitely get those pants.
Can't suede be, er, sprayed with something, or something? Grubbiness is a concern, seeing as how I dislike paying for professional cleaning and spill coffee on myself regularly.
Ah, good call with the turquoise accents, AWB.
Sounds awesome, AWB. Seconding the turquoise.
It's hard to judge the proposed outfit objectively because an unreliable narrator is using all these loaded words with positive connotations.
Fluffy messy hair.
Say! This reminds me, do you (or anyone else here) have a recommendation for an excellent haircut for giant bushy wavy hair to be had in NY (Brooklyn preferably)? Every time I go to New York, I think, "I should try to get a fantastic haircut while I'm here," but then I have no actual ideas for stylists and don't do anything about it.
Buy the damn things, JM. I dunno about cleaning but fine, don't wear them every day if it's an issue. At $60, even if you wear them twice it's still a good deal.
Re. breastfeeding, you don't have to be a breastfed kid to have ever seen your mom's boobs, you know.
You're all forgetting that JM is a massive cheapskate.
We're not forgetting. That's why we're telling her that $60 for suede pants that fit beautifully is a fucking bargain.
I think of her more as a willowy, stacked cheapskate.
Cheapskates only understand absolute amounts.
"$60?!"
"It's a new car!"
"But $60!!"
If she doesnt buy them, then they will just go to waste. Buying them is the environmentally frugal thing to do.
squarish thin black short-sleeved sweater
I'm having trouble imagining what a "squarish" sweater would look like. Does it somehow have a squarish shape, or do you mean that it's the sort of sweater a real square might wear?
172: Irish blog people is hilarious. Could ev/psych conclusions be drawn from life in the Irish blogs rather than on the veldt?
227: It means "not fitted." So yes, the shape is squarish. Sigh.
Neat, thanks. I learn so much in these threads. Also, JGO s/b Otto von Bisquick, per the demands of the Pseudonym Types I Hate thread.
I have those hot red Viktor & Rolf kitten heels that I wore on a date back in May, and I like them, but they make me walk a little funny.
Good call on not wearing them. Walking funny is for after the date.
Update: It was a fine date, but not ripe for a second, I don't think.
Black shoulder-buttoned sweater, poofy silk paneled skirt, white and black polka-dot stiletto maryjanes. I looked pretty cute.
white and black polka-dot stiletto maryjanes
Damn, talk about getting as many mixed messages into one pair of shoes as possible.
The mixed message is apparently my forte. I made out with him and told him I wasn't that into it. He liked me. I said I was trying not to be that girl who's easy at first and then breaks it off for no reason.
Wow. Then you had sex and told him mid-coitus you were committed to celibacy?
239: Sigh. I need to go back into therapy, I think. I wasn't mean, and we left it well, and I can think of like 10 girls who would really like him. He just wasn't a match for me.
Eh, whatever. Mixed messages are fun.
240: Oh. Okay. Thanks.
241: Sorry, AWB.
They're fun except if you're a really nice guy trying to get with a girl.
If you're a really nice guy trying to get with a girl, you should relax and enjoy the fact that your life will be a whirlwind of mixed messages and confusing yet enjoyably makeout sessions.
At least, that's what I tell myself.
I made out with him and told him I wasn't that into it. He liked me. I said I was trying not to be that girl who's easy at first and then breaks it off for no reason.
Don't listen to Sifu. On behalf of men everywhere: we hate you.
On behalf of men everywhere…
Posted by: ogged
*Snicker*
Even if you're a nice guy trying to get with a girl, they aren't that bad. As long as some degree of good faith is there on your part, mixed messages are just part of life. Guys just have to enjoy the "yes, let's" part and use the "i'm not that into this" part to engage in their hobbies, hang out with their buddies, and ask their female friends if this girl they're into is just playing hard to get. Their female friends will almost always say "oh, totally", which is usually pretty nice to hear.
Sorry it wasn't super compelling, but don't worry about the mixed messages bit.
I don't think my messages were that mixed. I wasn't doing the full press.
250 makes it explicit, thus obliterating the final traces of my aura of mystery.
Your aura of mystery can handle far stronger blows than that. Although I'm tempted to start a mixed-message-bench-racing session, just because I'm sure yours will be fascinating.
AWB: Anything particular about the guy not do it for you, or was it just a je ne se quois?
Nothing particular, just an aura of "This is someone I could totally have seen myself sleeping with and hurting the feelings of four years ago" and I'm not that person anymore.
a mixed-message-bench-racing session, just because I'm sure yours will be fascinating
If only I knew what that meant.
Bench raising? Like an occult thing? Everybody gathers around the bench and per lost spiritualist knowledge it elevates into the air?
Wait, bench racing? I'm even more confused.
254: so wait, why doesn't this fall into the category of "fun time, no harm done," miss hard-on-herself?
I don't know what that means, either.
258: Because I found myself being really direct about it, and I think that no matter how you say something like that, it doesn't feel good to hear. He's a nice guy, and will do well for himself in the blind dating scene (which he's new to) and I am an odd duck.
Sit on a bench and talk about racing. See also bench flying.
Whatever. He got to make out with you, no strings attached! You wore delightfully confusing heels! His experience with the blind dating scene: boss so far.
260: still totally, totally lost. This refers to sporting events of some kind? Like recreational... flying?
He said he was thinking of deleting his account. First experiences are really hard that way.
Eh, I think he's tougher than that. I had bad first dates when I joined Nerve, and this was not a bad date. We went to fun bars and had good conversation and made out. According to all accounts: fun. But also: not really going anywhere, and clear about that. So: no tragedy, right?
Hmm. It doesn't feel good to hear stuff like that, especially if there's no particular reason at hand ("That haircut. I just can't get past it.") but it's not like he's going to go home and cry himself to sleep on his gigantic pillow or anything. He had a generally pleasant if in certain interpretations unsuccessful introduction to the blind dating scene, no harm no foul.
So: no tragedy, right?
Right!
A fine night out.
He has a gigantic pillow?
No tragedy at all. I assume you tried to talk him out of deleting his account and were at least somewhat successful?
Sifu: just share amusing mixed message anecdotes already.
In fact, I (erroneously) thought it would be cool to set him up with other friends who would totally dig him. This was not (apparently) nice.
He wasn't mean about it at all. Real sweetheart, actually. But he did like me a lot.
269: oh, well, man, I dunno if I have it in me. I will say that in the past two weeks of Making-Out-With-Bridesmaids-a-Thon '07, in the first instance it was me sending the bridesmaid mixed messages, and in the second it was the other way around, which was an entertaining example of nigh-instant karma.
I actually find that mixed messages are both less pronounced and easier to suss out the older you get: hidden benefits of onrushing decrepitude, part a billion.
In fact, I (erroneously) thought it would be cool to set him up with other friends who would totally dig him. This was not (apparently) nice.
Hmm. I think this is the type of thing that gets received poorly in the moment but once thought about (by the person who heard it) actually makes a lot of sense. Still on the no-harm-no-foul side of things.
271: seriously though if you can fall that hard for somebody on a first (blind!) date, you really need to go out with more people before you can judge your instincts tuned correctly.
I wonder who the bridesmaids at my sister's wedding will be.
274: That's how I feel about it. I have gone out with a lot of Nerve guys who were crazy about me from the outset for no reason, and I try to get it up (emotionally) for them, and end up being a cold fish. I don't want to do that anymore. It takes me a long long time to feel that much for people.
275: doesn't matter. Make out with them. It's expected!
276: they'll probably get over it in about 45 seconds, in any case.
nigh-instant karma
It took place instantly? Like, you made out with one, thinking dastardly thoughts, and then, moments later, another made out with you, thinking dastardly thoughts? Neat!
I think I have learned from Unfogged that dudes take their feelings pretty seriously, as it should be. I take dudes' feelings to heart, man.
279: give or take a week, sure.
Dudes take their feelings seriously, but they are flighty and mercurial, and likely to forget the intensity of those feelings as soon as the next hunk of beefcake willowy brunette comes along.
People don't use the word 'dastardly' enough.
I am no willowy brunette, that's for sure. It should be extra-easy then.
A little, yeah. I'm all large and muscly and stuff. Not willowy at all.
Man, I was going to tell some more stories about mixed messages given and recieved, but realized (as a thirty-something undergrad) that they would exude a huge amount of (I swear, unjustified) creepiness. So I just won't. Here, Jake, take the conch shell.
286: might be just as much of a problem, then.
Jake's mixed-message stories! Go!
Watch him pretend to go to bed now.
Really I don't have any mixed-message stories because I'm a shy internet shut-in who is totally full of shit.
There, Jake: honesty is the order of the evening.
Actually I want to hear mixed-message stories from ogged, Ben, and teo.
So I just won't. Here, Jake, take the conch shell.
"Hey, do you want a shirt and tie? The colors go together really well. I bought it for my ex-boyfriend, but now I don't think it's healthy for me to keep giving him presents. But don't think that this means we're making out. It's under the pile of bras over there on the floor."
AWB: dudes take their feelings seriously, but that doesn't mean they need to be treated with kid gloves.
Mixed messages:
I once (aged about 19) went out on a double-date after work with a friend, his girlfriend and her best friend. The best friend was super-hot. We cruised around a few pubs and then ended up back at my friend's flat with a few bottles of wine. Best friend and I are getting on like a house on fire, flirting has ensued.
About 3 am I doze off, sitting on the living room floor. I awake, about 8am, to find someone has covered me with a blanket [I'm still fully dressed] while best friend has stripped off and crawled under the blanket and is wrapped round me.
We wake up a bit awkward, but everyone has a nice breakfast together. We leave. Friend and friend's girlfriend both assure me 'best friend' is totally into me.
I phone her, she's not interested.
I get mixed messages from dudes all the fucking time. It is my curse. I was once best-flirty-friends with a guy whose office was next to mine for two years without knowing he had a gf. She showed up at a party with him after two years, saying she'd heard all about me, and that my BFF had just proposed to her, and wasn't I excited for her. I was like, "And your name is what?"
Okay, I didn't say that. But it made the pained-ongoing-flirtation make more sense.
And sadly, no going to bed any time soon. In the office for the indeterminate future.
(and the bit about dude's feelings wasn't meant to be chiding in any way. by acting in good faith you're already miles ahead of the crowd and should have a clear conscience.)
It's very easy to be the good-time girl who is game. And I am still fun and stuff, but I feel the need to be direct about things that I think people are not used to women being direct about. In another life, I would have made out with him and then blown him off later, and I've been in that position way too many times myself to think that's the right way to handle it.
"'best-flirty-friends'" at work is a weird thing, though. Definitely been there but it's sort of a sui-generis state of affairs that's a bit different to anything outside work.
I think a good work-flirt can be maintained between people who know about one another's partners. No fun lost, there. So why all the hush hush?
A date with AWB is the Crimson Tide of Nerve.com.
A brief moment of cowardice on his part leading to the "well I can't tell her about my girlfriend NOW..." for the next two years.
Or even a misplaced concern about hurt feelings.
re: 297
Yes, my old flirty-work-best-friend knew my then-partner. The hush-hush is a bit weird.
299 may be right, though.
Flirting is a lot more fun for me if I know where I stand, FWIW.
"Here I stand. I cannot flirt otherwise."
It's also really easy to get into the "well, I know about my relationship and know it's not a big deal, but what if my work-flirty-friend disapproves and then we can't have fun work flirting any more? best just not to say anything" spiral.
304: I can imagine such a thing, but I've never been tempted to hide a bf from a work-flirt partner, in part because it makes the situation less fun and more fraught for me. The temptation to cheat for real? Is that what's hot? Or is it the ability to hold it over that person, if she actually comes on to you? That's what I worry about. My work BFF enjoyed seeing me disappointed by the fiancee, I think, but then, he was an evil sonofabitch.
I flirted with someone at work for a few weeks, after which it was revealed in some incidental turn in the conversation that she had a boyfriend, at which point it should have been clear that the flirting was really just work flirting but it never was quite that clear. Every now and then we seemed to agree to tone things down for a while without actually saying anything about it.
Well, enjoying other's disappointment is crap. There might be an involuntary twinge of gratification, but in any sane human disappointment of a friend should cause guilt.
That said, I don't think it has to do with the temptation to cheat for real, necessarily. More of a "if this is really harmless flirting, then there's no need for me to mention my girlfriend, so mentioning her means I need to reevaluate whether or not this is really harmless, and that sounds like a whole can of worms that I don't want to get into." This also requires the assumption that there's no chance the other person is doing anything more than harmless flirting, because clearly there's no way they'd be interested in you, so you don't have to worry about hurting their feelings.
But I'm really practiced at denial, so YMMV.
The temptation to cheat for real? Is that what's hot?
Isn't it usually the opposite? Or at least for me. It's fun with the flirty unless the person suddenly makes it clear they are interested in cheating for real [which has happened with a flirty friend at work, before] at which point it suddenly ceases to be harmless fun, and, unless your the sort of person who actually cheats [which I'm not] it ceases to be fun altogether.
I don't understand what makes people tick. This is my problem.
I suspect my "mixed messages" stories are more accurately characterized as "she came to her senses and pulled herself back from the brink at the last moment."
I think my problem is more other-people-related. I am fairly sure of what makes me tick, because all my thoughts appear in capital letters, like OPINIONATED GRANDMA runs my brain.
Everyone should buy new clothes. Then, we'll take the Great Leap Forward [Into Bed], our new clothes strewn amongst the old clothes of the five years preceding.
I suspect my "mixed messages" stories are more accurately characterized as "she came to her senses and pulled herself back from the brink at the last moment."
Those are fun in an interesting sort of way, too. Late night text message, "I'll take a ten minute cab ride to meet you at a bar in your neighborhood out in the sticks", mass whiskey consumption, go out to the sidewalk, get an "I should go home now. Wow, I send you really mixed messages, don't I?"
As for 314... understanding what makes people tick is hard. But it sounds like tonight was a lot more of "this is going to make me feel like an ass if I continue, so I'll stop" rather than a "I don't want to do something that I think will hurt this guy's feelings," which is surely the way to go.
Those are fun in an interesting sort of way, too
One of these I ended up marrying, so...uh...yeah.
It's fun with the flirty unless the person suddenly makes it clear they are interested in cheating for real [which has happened with a flirty friend at work, before] at which point it suddenly ceases to be harmless fun, and, unless your the sort of person who actually cheats [which I'm not] it ceases to be fun altogether.
We use the expression "Work wife." Transparency is important. It keeps things relatively harmless. If the work wife doesn't know about the real one or vice versa, it can cause problems.
That isnt to say that you should provide exact quotes of the flirtiness.
Oh my god, 225 gets it exactly right.
Actually I want to hear mixed-message stories from ogged, Ben, and teo.
Mine are pretty much all instantiations of this.
