Pacing, young Ben, pacing. Such a perfect post for tomorrow morning, but you had to blow your wad early.
The thing is, Ogged, youngsters like Ben have enough stamina that they don't need to worry so much about pacing.
Pretty sure I read about this at Marginal Revolution a while back.
Why must you always find fault?
It's a horrible trait, isn't it? And I violated my own rule about not taking issue with the post before the third comment. My apologies, quick squirt.
I've seen it before, and have seen garlic, lemon, chocolate suggested as a solution. I find the garlic-chocolate dyad unconvincing, but am told that it's workable in a mole sauce.
Chocolate is I think key to most solutions.
A. chocolate
B. bacon
C. whitefish
Could work, given Molé as an option for A & C.
I'm dubious about garlic-chocolate. If you can make the garlic-chocolate dyad work, then it's a short hop to garlic-chocolate lemon.
I wondered whether bacon (or guancale) may make one leg of this, but maybe crisp-cooked bacon goes with everything
Chocolate-bacon whitefish doesn't sound that bad.
Cream cheese, salmon, and cherries?
There are people who find A&B in 8 unappealing. IMO, they're wrong, but they're out there.
Not unbearably repulsive, perhaps, but a damn sight worse than any of the dyads, to my mind.
I'm dubious about garlic-chocolate.
I'd try roast garlic dipped in dark chocolate. Might turn out nasty, but it might be pretty good.
If you make the chocolate-whitefish work in the mole, adding bacon is child's play.
the hard part is one of the links-- e.g.
Bacon-Chocolate (it works. I've had it)
Bacon-liver
liver-chocolate. Nope.
There is a related conjecture that all dishes are improved by the addition of either chocolate or garlic.
Steak, pepper, chocolate (although I'm commenting under protest).
This is probably doable with blogs, too.
Once you get to liking steak and chocolate, it seems that steak, pepper, and chocolate is not a big stretch.
Stevie Nicks, Lindsey Buckingham, Mick Fleetwood.
Once you get to liking steak and chocolate, it seems that steak, pepper, and chocolate is not a big stretch.
I knew someone would say that. That's not to say that I have a good answer, but I totally saw it coming, ok?
Eh, the three together sound better than black pepper and chocolate without the steak.
But egg creams are gross, Sifu.
The best I can come up with is apple/Cheddar/bacon, but someone will probably step up to defend the apple-Cheddar-bacon sandwich or something.
30: ok, but then I don't see why you couldn't add whiskey.
Egg creams are awesome. I can't imagine what you mean.
32: yeah, I've been struggling with that.
someone will probably step up to defend the apple-Cheddar-bacon sandwich or something.
Or something, yeah.
Unless you're a 72-year-old Jewish man named Morris, I'm going to have to overrule 33.
I wonder if this might be easier by trying to find the form of incompatible Triads.
a) an acid, something in the citrus family
b) a fat
c) a third ingredient that works with both.
a) a spice that works in sweet and savory preparations
b) a food that is primarily savory
c) sugar.
For the second triad I submit:
a) cocoa;
b) chicken; and,
c) sugar.
Based largely on a dear roommate trying to fix a mole with sugar, giving us chocolate chicken. Wrong wrong wrong.
Well then call me a 72-year-old Jewish man named Morris, because I love egg creams. I get them whenever I can.
egg creams are gross?
apple/cheddar/bacon might make a decent pannini, and I'm sure have gone together in many salads. That trio is easy to imagine working together. No right angles in the tastes there.
It seems like ginger would perfectly bridge the sweet/savory distinction that makes for a gross triad, but everything I'm coming up with sounds pretty good.
The problem is that we live in such a fallen age that someone will pop up to defend any triad as the height of yumminess.
The "by any reasonable definition" condition is not strong enough, because people eat all kinds of weird shit.
27: haven't had chocolate with black pepper, but it's great with cracked pink pepper. (That Belgian brand, Delfin I think it's called, has it.)
a) an acid, something in the citrus family
b) a fat
c) a third ingredient that works with both.
You mean like, say, lemon juice, pork belly, and celery? Because those are doublewise and triplewise compatible (and how!).
I thought about it further and y'all are right, apple/cheddar/bacon works fine -- I was locked into the context of pie. So: apple/bacon/pie crust. But you people probably like apple-bacon quiche.
Chocolate with black pepper is really good.
I was thinking more a dairy product for b) of the first triad. Something, basically, where the acid and the fat can work together on their own but crashes and burns in preparations... one of the ones on the link was espresso, lemon, and milk.
a) an acid, something in the citrus family
b) a fat
c) a third ingredient that works with both.
a) grapefruit
b) fatback
c) Nature Valley crunchy granola bar
haven't had chocolate with black pepper
I don't remember where I had it, but it's very good.
Campari, grapefruit juice, and tonic water, on the grounds that all three together would just be too much?
49: but then the acid and the fat have to play nice in isolation from the third ingredient. So what you really need is two ingredients that react very slowly together, and a third that's a catalyst.
OK, OK, I believe you. Chocolate really is versatile stuff. Right up there with bacon.
The "by any reasonable definition" condition is not strong enough, because people I eat all kinds of weird shit.
I don't remember where I had it, but it's very good.
One of the fancy chocolate companies sells savory samplers with chocolate + pepper/basil/other spices and herbs etc.
522: all three together are in fact delicious.
One of our wedding gifts was a small tray of fine Belgian chocolates. Each pair of chocolates was infused with a different subtle flavor. Anise, cumin, lemon, earl grey tea, chamomile. Very tasty.
58: The suspense is going to kill me.
Veal/orange/gelatin? Google that, w-lfs-n.
Acquavit, pickled herring, peanut butter.
Veal/orange/gelatin?
Gelatin doesn't have much of a flavor, you know. If you can do veal + orange, you can aspicize it or whatever and toss in some gelatin.
Building off 52, perhaps Campari, marshmallow, and grapefruit? Except that I can imagine a circumstance where that works.
During those endless childhood summers, we lived for when the Ice Cream Van would come around and sell us frozen milk-chocolate covered chicken squares. Bliss.
During those endless childhood summers, we lived for when the Ice Cream Van would come around and sell us frozen milk-chocolate covered chicken squares. Bliss.
I have no idea why that appeared twice.
That explains the analytic metaphysics. Twice, even.
Though you could probably pour some cream in your mole w/ no seriously ill effects. If it's not required to dominate the dish this become really difficult.
The point of the linked page is that he hasn't yet heard a satisfactory solution, so this should be very difficult.
Something with pickles, but I don't know what!
I don't see any guarantee that the Yellow Rattler is not vile.
That explains the analytic metaphysics
At present the resident analytic metaphysician is insisting, from across the room, that this puzzle is badly formulated and that discussion is therefore pointless.
The yellow rattler may not be vile, but I bet a decent gin + oj preparation, garnished with a cocktail onion, could be concocted. I bet, further, that a decent dish incorporating onions, and oj + gin in the sauce, could be prepared.
I almost went that route, but I figured if I argued the problem was incoherent ogged would be sad and w-lfs-n would quote Locke again.
Goneril, you're not in metaphysics? But, but.. you get my bad modality jokes....
I mean, the yellow rattler may not not be vile.
I agree with 78. I do not believe food operates this way.
if I argued the problem was incoherent ogged would be sad
No, I agree, but I'm playing along because I feel guilty about being mean to Ben.
Not that this should stop anyone.
The yellow rattler may not be vile, but I bet a decent gin + oj preparation, garnished with a cocktail onion, could be concocted. I bet, further, that a decent dish incorporating onions, and oj + gin in the sauce, could be prepared.
Did Harvey "bet"? Did Galileo "bet"? Science demands proof, Ben! We need experimental data! Note, however, that bacon, chicken, and ice are incompatible.
The primary incoherency of the problem, I think, is that it doesn't specify how the ingredients have to come together. To go together pairwise, does it suffice that some preparation of the two ingredients that works exists? Or do they have to go together when they're alone together, too? That would be pretty difficult.
So first real question is: when do two or more foods "go together"? What does the ordinary concept of going together actually involve? Only once this preliminary problem is solved can we move on.
And now we've got a research program!
86: Exactly. Like, once you add enough butter, practically anything will work.
No, I agree, but I'm playing along because I feel guilty about being mean to Ben.
You're an asshole, ogged.
cherry
coke
vanilla
CherryVanillaCoke, although available on the market, turns out to be disgusting.
Yes, but homemade cherry-vanilla coke is just fine.
Last Tango in Paris should not guide one in the kitchen, Cala.
Goneril, you're not in metaphysics? But, but.. you get my bad modality jokes....
Social network issues mean I am unbelievably good at bluffing in this area.
The Incompatible Food Triad problem has no solution. I have a truly marvelous proof of this proposition which this margin is too narrow to contain.
What we need is a chemist. Things should mix fine in pairs, but item 1 and item 2 should form a reaction that would be adverse with item 3. Since I don't remember my chemistry classes, I'll ignorantly speculate that perhaps 2 non-reactive agents could form an acid or base, that could be paired with an opposite so that it blows up. Or maybe 1 and 2 could form an acid, which would curdle or coagulate item 3, a loose protein.
If the first two ingredients are non-reactive, they won't form an acid or base when introduced to each other, oder?
Hydrogen peroxide, manganese, fire
92: If you studied where I think you did, it was practically in the water, so you learned it by osmosis.
At least this thread hasn't been taken over by discussions of white bread.
92: If you studied where I think you did, it was practically in the water, so you learned it by osmosis.
You have no idea.
I see this thread has moved on, but I've got it: cheddar cheese, sugar, and apples.
You obviously haven't eaten breakfast in Vermont.
cheddar cheese, sugar, and apples.
Americans love a slice of cheese on their apple pies.
I deem this thread eminently more hopeful for the human race than the current zombie/pirate/ninja debate taking place among facebook users.
Also: I know Sifu was working the alcohol angle early, but I'll go that path again.
White Wine/Beer/Brown Liquor
Lutefisk, chocolate, and brussels sprouts.
Lutefisk is already disgusting all by itself.
94 has it right. We need a chemist, a catalyst, and either an explosion or a poison at the end.
Wait, what was wrong with this one?
a. Salted cucumbers
b. Sugar
c. Yogurt.
a and b in sweet pickles
a and c in tzaziki (sp?), the greek yogurt dish [and raita].
b and c is common.
a, b,and c together is pretty gross. I was trying to make tzaziki once, and accidentally used sweetened vanilla yogurt. I had to throw it out. Yuck.
Hart says, "I can't comment on this, as I draw the line at a+c," but he clearly just hates Greeks & Indians.
s/b what was wrong with this one other than the absence of bacon?
My proposed answer to this in the past has been:
chocolate, peanut butter, chili pepper
What in the world makes you think those wouldn't be good together?
Blah blah blah incredulous stare blah blah.
But in fact I find myself moved by your incredulity.
Getting modality jokes isn't the mark of a metaphysician. Getting jokes about tropes (or some equally loony thing) is the mark of a metaphysician. One should consider, in wondering about whether or not to pursue metaphysics, that being in a state in which one is capable of getting, or, worse, making, a joke about tropes is not choiceworthy.
110 is crazy. In fact, I'll bet you can buy foodstuffs that contain all of those.
I am betting that the triad, when ultimately discovered, will include some form of sushi.
Salmon
Saffron
Cocoa
37 is good. We're actually looking for distinctive yet versatile ingredients: that is, ingredients that have strong views but are susceptible to an allegiance switch. Or to put it another way; any of the ingredient pairs should tentatively set up a 'taste mode' which is then upset by the addition of a third ingredient: all of the ingredients will then find it hard to decide which way to go.
Britain, Germany and France. France being the bitter one.
119: I think he meant was a good solution, not that it would taste good.
At least, I have to tell myself that if I ever want to trust ttaM again.
Why would it taste bad? A bit sweet for me, but perfectly palatable.
Oh, and 108 gets it exactly right. I actually thought I'd be far too late to point that out, but I only just missed it.
As for the objections raised by the imaginary metaphysicist, I really think it's exactly right - we have here people justifying triads based on very slim premises, like you could sneak a little cream into a mole and it wouldn't be gross. Well sure: you could also put one petal of brussels sprout in a buttload of ice cream without ruining it, but it still doesn't make them a dyad.
I think the only meaningful way to deal with the question is to identify a limited number/amount of additional ingredients (salt, oil... that may be it), but otherwise limit the triad to the triad. Which is why salted cuke/yogurt/sugar works so well - all the dyads are (essentially) complete without any additional ingredients. And while bacon/cheddar/apple is best disproved by a toasty sandwich, I would happily sit down to a lunch of just those three things on a cutting board.
122: I'm actually not much of a fan of any of these, but I think the point is that the dyads range from excellent to cocktail par excellence, while the triad is drinkable at best. Which doesn't make it really fit the problem ("unpalatable"), but it makes you squint at anyone who'd drink the triad without shouting "who put the X in my YZ!?"
The problem is that people's tastes are simultaneously so specific and so wide-ranging. As a precondition to believe this triad can be found, you have to imagine a set of three foods such that no reasonable person would ever want to eat them together. This is somewhat trivial if one of the foods is curdled or otherwise spoiled by one of the other foods (well, trivial in most cases: see Irish Car Bombs) but that also messes up the dyad. 94 I think it the closest to the correct methodology. Perhaps combining two slightly acidic foods with another (loose protein) food such that independently they would not curdle it, but together they would be acidic enough that they would?
Still, living in a world in which stinky cheese, 1000 year old eggs, chocolate covered grasshoppers, and blood pudding exist: I don't think it can be done.
Still, living in a world in which stinky cheese, 1000 year old eggs, chocolate covered grasshoppers, and blood pudding the Chinese exist: I don't think it can be done.
Like Ezra Klein, I'm calling you out, Sifu: do YOU like salted pickles in sweetened yogurt? Does anyone here?
Seriously, we had takers for chocolate steak; do we have takers for a little cup of yogurt with the pickles at the bottom? If not, then we have an approximation of an answer. Sifu's broader point is right - in a world of 6 billion people, you can find a million who would not only eat, but also enjoy, any damn thing. But if no one here is going to stand up for a food, I think that's as close as we can get (the chemistry question interests me not at all).
Sounds okay. I'd certainly dip lightly salted cucumber slices in greek yogurt, which is quite sweet. Feel free to test me on this, should you meet me.
But yeah, that's the best example I've seen out of all of them.
They're selling pork-flavored yoghurt at Tesco now?
pork-flavored yoghurt
Low-fat strawberry-hamnana, yes.
I've never done it with pork, but you can use yogurt as a marinade for all sorts of meat. Given that it's pork, adding honey probably wouldn't be bad either, though.
Further evidence for the "it's incoherent" analysis.
honey-glazed ham; pork or lamb cooked in a yoghurt based sauce are pretty common across Greece and the Balkans.
re: 132
Yoghurt plus honey are standard components of some indian dips/marinades used with meat. So that one's definitely a non-starter.
The standard 'pakora sauce' recipe I know uses yoghurt, honey, vinegar, fresh mint, and chilli. It is delicious with all kinds of deep fried meat-based products.
Just last night I was enjoying Turkish food and dipping grilled meats (no pork, for obvious reasons) in yogurt sauce, albeit a savory one. Personally, I can't abide* sweet sauces/glazes for meats, but I know that I'm part of a shrinking minority on that one.
* Slight overstatement with exceptions; but I could happily live forever without such things
greek yogurt, which is quite sweet
But I wouldn't call it "sweetened" unless you're tipping that brilliant honey compartment into it. As I said, I don't think minor amounts of a third ingredient count for much; so sugar that yogurt like you were having it for dessert, then dip in salted cuke.
I hope Becks is taking notes on all this for UnfoggeDCon. The entire event - food and drinks - should consist of marginally-edible triads that people here have claimed to like.
without shouting "who put the X in my YZ!?"
This is great. It's going to become part of my repertoire. The shouting part is essential.
129 has the right idea, even though those three are potentially delicious together. The meat/sweets/other combination probably has lots of solutions: prosciutto, melons, and cream cheese, for instance.
(granted, you could put them together, but it would be serious overkill, and google doesn't suggest any recipes that actually call for such a combination).
part of my repertoire
In the hours since I posted that, it has already become a buzzphrase, passed into casual conversation, been made into a dance track, and cited by Paul Harvey as an example of the decadence of modern society.
108 is good.
However I could imagine having a scoop of cucumber sorbet and frozen yogurt together in a cup. That wouldn't be "salted cucumbers" but it would be cucumbers.
140: Shall you write the wikipedia entry for it, or shall I?
The "editors" already pulled it for [citations needed]. Unfortunately, this whole thread was Google-proofed by all the slashes, so I couldn't use it.
Come on people isn't it obvious:
1) A shot of tequila
2) A shot of tequila
3) A shot of tequila
1) A shot of tequila
2) A shot of tequila
3) A shot of tequila
4) Floor
Since we're considering liquids, would it be a cheat to use water as the third? Iced Bailey's is fine and iced tequila is fine, but iced teqhlua would be the stuff dares are made of.
Meant iced Bailey's/ Tequila. Was originally toying with Kahlua.
I have done some research into the chocolate + bacon dyad, and I can now report: delicious!