Yet another style of kissing for our collection.
Manner seems based on Barry Humphries', a good but obvious model.
Oh, they have to nominate Giuliani. They have to. Not just because he's a losing candidate, but for the sake of national entertainment.
Why on earth hasn't some other Republican candidate run an ad based on this stuff?
In other scandal news, I'm loving that Guiliani's unusual personal life and his unusual accounting are merging.
What really annoys me about this is that generically, I approve of people feeling free to be ridiculous in public. If I didn't think Giuliani were a nightmare substantively, I'd kind of hate that this sort of thing, bizarre though it may be, would be likely to hurt him politically. And yet I think it's so important that he not be elected that I'm hoping it does hurt him.
Thing is, a candidate who wasn't running for the Party of Wholesome Family Values and Accounting Practices might be able to laugh this off.
It is actually a lot like when homophobic senators get caught cruising for gay sex. I have no problem with cruising for gay sex, but I find hypocrisy delicious.
Video looks to me like a forgery.
Yeah, Giuliani doesn't look like that. Someone put makeup on him. At that point, we have no choice but to assume that the whole thing is a fake.
I approve of people feeling free to be ridiculous in public
People, maybe, the Leader Of The Free World Empire, no.
That shade of Revlon ("Lusty Night") was not introduced until 2005. Clearly a fake. Jesus, people, have you learned nothing?
12: unless you consider the mayor of NYC the "Leader of the Empire", which would not be ridiculous, I suppose, you are really saying that anyone with future political ambitions can't ever be ridiculous in public. Which, I'd agree with LB, does seem oppressive.
(And I'm not even sure I'd agree that it's a terrible thing for the President. Although I'm more inclined to agree, perhaps.)
Actually I think the ability to allow one's self to look ridiculous for the amusement of others is pretty admirable. Humanizing even. I think that you misunderestimate the rank and file of the Republican Party if you think they don't get the joke.
Thing is, a candidate who wasn't running for the Party of Wholesome Family Values and Accounting Practices might be able to laugh this off.
Only Nixon Giuliani could go to China wear a dress.
6: I sort of classify this with my feelings towards outing deep-closet Republicans, with which I am completely OK. I have no problem with Rudy acting silly in public. I have a problem with Rudy acting silly in public and then pandering to voters who think that participation in that particular flavor of silliness should be rewarded with second class citizenship.
Yeah, it just burns me that I'm in the position of hoping to be rescued by people I despise. "Giuliani's a nightmare, but he's also done stuff that will, I think, piss off bigots and tightass people generally. Let's hope they come out in force to vote!" Given the situation, I don't see a way around it, but I hate him even more for putting me in this position.
This reminds of something I said when my friends and I, all new to Babylon, visited the Village Halloween Parade for our first Halloween in the big city:
"Just once, I'd like to see a woman dressed as Queen Victoria."
I see it as, "If Giuliani wins the nomination, this stuff will piss off bigots and tightass people and they'll stay home in the general." A little more heartening.
pandering to voters who think that participation in that particular flavor of silliness should be rewarded with second class citizenship.
See here is where we differ. Those who Rudy panders to certainly think that cross dressers, bears, twinks and the rest should be second class citizens. But dressing up for a show is no more weird than having to play the girl in the St. Ignatius School for Bullies production of "South Pacific". It don't make you gay. (But I am reminded of the scene in that David Bowie POW movie where the female impersonator is quite obviously the object of lust during the "show".)
What really annoys me about this is that generically, I approve of people feeling free to be ridiculous in public. If I didn't think Giuliani were a nightmare substantively, I'd kind of hate that this sort of thing, bizarre though it may be, would be likely to hurt him politically. And yet I think it's so important that he not be elected that I'm hoping it does hurt him.
LB sums up my feelings on this video.
But dressing up for a show is no more weird than having to play the girl in the St. Ignatius School for Bullies production of "South Pacific". It don't make you gay
This is very true and I'm surprised it needs to be pointed out. Sufficiently broad cross-dressing for theatricals and skits is obviously very ordinary and masculine, and has been for ages.
What I really love about this video is it perfectly encapsulates what the Republican party is really all about: abject wealth and repressed sexual deviance.
Right, no one ever associates actors or theatrical performances with teh gay.
and has been for ages.
We're living in different times, IDP.
It's ain't about the gay. You people (yes, every last one of you) just don't believe in dignity, do you?
"You don't believe in dignity" is now the official slogan for UnfoggeDCon.
don't believe in dignity, do you
And leave show business?
I believe in dignity. But it does appear to be the minority view.
We're living in different times, IDP
Well I guess. They don't say how long they've done it in that town, but it really was ordinary once.
The sniggering, nerdish discomfort with this, not confined to cultural conservatives, really is a sad thing, and a real departure from my parent's and grandparent's day.
But dressing up for a show is no more weird than having to play the girl in the St. Ignatius School for Bullies production of "South Pacific".
That's true, but I can't imagine that too many of the people of Rudy is pandering to, would exactly approve of that, either.
"Hey, Mom! Guess what! I'm playing Nellie Forbush in the school musical!"
"You don't believe in dignity" is now the official slogan for UnfoggeDCon.
In honor of Wrongshore, it really should me "Dignify this?"
Is there some sort of secret global panic going on? Agonist.org is apparently being overwhelmed by traffic.
I believe in dignity, but mostly rhetorically. Just like Ronald Dworkin. Who I also only believe in rhetorically.
In 9, does Wholesome modify both Family Values and Accounting Practices?
31 should have had plural possessives.
From 26:
"It's like experimenting with drugs," Davies said. "You just keep playing with it and it becomes customary.
ATM.
27: National politics, and national politicians, and for that matter, federal administrations: not about dignity for a long time now.
Ability to be ridiculous in public at times is a good thing. Hypocrisy is a whole different issue.
Fun people can be horrible people. Not all fun people, of course. If there's a fun Unfogged regular, which I doubt, they're not horrible.
35. There is no such thing as Wholesome Accounting Practises. Creative, yes but wholesome, no.
What's weirdest about that video is that it's completely not funny. It should have been funny, what with the effort they put into Rudy's costuming, but the timing sucked. I am also of the opinion that drag queens should either dance or sing.
The sniggering, nerdish discomfort with this, not confined to cultural conservatives, really is a sad thing, and a real departure from my parent's and grandparent's day.
I don't think straight-male comic crossdressing has died out purely out of homophobia, though. Part of it is a reaction to there simply being many fewer single-sex schools than there were - the situations where "Well, someone's got to play Ophelia: I suppose we'll put some socks down the front of Johnson's shirt," don't come up nearly as much. And part of it is that it's a form of humor that's often, although not always, I think about misogyny -- 'aren't the trappings of femininity contemptibly ridiculous? Look at him with the makeup on -- seeing a real person gussied up like that is a scream!' And that's just not as appealing a joke to many people now as it was in the past.
39. M- fun, JE, or some other kind?
Straight frat boy drag is all about making fun of women, which is why it's "okay" with the straight frat boy type. Strangely, I don't think that's what Giuliani's doing here (though I think it is what Trump thinks is happening).
I don't have a problem with this stuff making Giuliani unelectable, because I don't think the issue is homophobia or even hypocrisy; it's hubris. Rudy thinks he can do whatever the fuck he wants and still retain all the power and privilege he feels entitled to. It's like he's Marie Antoinette or something.
And part of it is that it's a form of humor that's often, although not always, I think about misogyny
This is true.
It's like he's Marie Antoinette or something.
Who he could be persuaded to dress up as, if you asked him nicely, I'd bet.
I believe in dignity.
Say it with me, readers: "I do believe in dignity. I do. I do!"
'aren't the trappings of femininity contemptibly ridiculous?
But situations like the aforementioned TWIRP day were to engender empathy for the "other" by pointing out what a fucking pain in the ass some of the "expected" gender behaviours can be. Mandatory cross dressing will be instigated upon the swearing in of Rudy the Swishy.
Oh, see my 'often, but not always'. There's certainly non-misogynistic straight-guy cross-dressing out there.
The only thing that will derail Guiliani is an attack on his position as a "strong man who gets things done."
Messing around with women or self-dealing does not hurt Strong Men Who Get Things Done. It only fosters the image.
No fun at all here, TLL! We're serious people who bicker a lot.
I think that Kerik is what stalls Rudy's campaign. Or Chuck Norris.
What if Chuck Norris beats Giuliani up? Wouldn't that hurt his position as a strong man who gets things done?
Can someone with Giuliani's sputtering lisp really be taken that seriously? I listened to part of the Republican debate on the radio, and that man sounds like Sylvester the Cat.
I can't see this harming Guiliani. Had he been dressing up as a woman on the sly and trolling for boyfriends, sure, but dressing up as a woman for laughs won't derail anyone who isn't already put off by the multiple divorces and the pro-choice, pro-illegal isn't going to care that he's upper-class enough for this sort of thing.
54. Nah, that won't work, cuz Chuck Norris can beat up everybody. All at once.
OT, but remember Megan Meier, the girl who killed herself over online taunting originating with her former friend's mother? From the NYT:
The police learned about the hoax when Ms. Drew filed a complaint about the damage to the foosball table.I'm speechless.
But come on, the girl was already depressed. I only taunted her. Not my fault! Not my fault!
When strong men who get thing done diddle the books to get a police driver for their mistresses, they don't get caught. (And this sort of thing puts a floor on politicians' ability to rise; there's a reason Boss Daley didn't become governor, and while I thought two-time convicted felon Buddy Cianci was a heck of a mayor, he would have been laughed at if he had run for higher office. I think Buddy could have done it with just an assault conviction -- strong men who get things done sometimes beat up their estranged wives' boyfriends, you know? -- but the corruption rumors moved him into the nearby category of "corrupt but competent politician, possibly a good mayor in Deadwood".)
I think Kerik plus the new Nathan charges kill him dead, and I hope the Republicans don't realize it.
58: You know, I'm really sorry your daughter killed herself and all, but that's no reason to damage my foosball table.
The right-wing sites I've looked at since the scandal broke have been too busy being shocked SHOCKED that Democrats were allowed to ask questions at the CNN debate to pay any attention to Rudy's clay feet. RedState is seriously attempting to organise a do-over debate (and of course a boycott of CNN).
61: Exactly. So it wasn't all that OT, because this is a thread about sociopaths.
61: . . . damage my foosball table, since it's a surprise Christmas gift for my kids, and my kids' happiness is really important to me, you know?
I seriously also feel sorry for the kids of the crazy woman who made the MySpace page, but yeah: fucking up your own kids is bad enough, lady, without driving someone else's to suicide.
The crazy lady seems to have brought evil and cluelessness together to produce a unique and terrible twin threat. Asking the other family to store the foosball table was pretty cluelessly nervy in the first place. Then going to the police topped that. Then "Let it drop..... I don't feel so guilty now since she'd tried suicide before" topped that. And then I think that she also was mad that the parents wouldn't talk to her, because she needed to talk to them to begin her healing process.
On the other hand, this is just gourmet boutique Britney Spears gossip. Shame on us.
53, 60.2: Kerik should be what kills Guiliani off, but as this little snippet of off-camera chatter from Katie Couric shows there may be some , uh, ... impediments. (from Harry Shearer via Crooks and Liars)
Couric: ...Can I make a suggestion. I guess we have to follow the Kerik story, but does the rest of the country care that much? I mean if we're really in time trouble...we're so tight for time, do you think the whole country really cares that much about Bernard Kerik. I don't know, I'm just curious?
I seriously also feel sorry for the kids of the crazy woman
I feel sorry for everyone who's going to have to deal with those kids down the road.
62: you know what would be really awesome? At the do-over, these Luntz focus group people can hook up their dials to deliver little electric shocks to candidates who give bad answers. Like the game they play in the Simpsons episode with Dr. Marvin Monroe. That'll learn Mike Huckabee to say that illegal immigrants' kids are "children of God"!
67. exhibit 1 on why "perky" should should be used only to decribe breasts, not news anchors.
I heart Katie, and--like Katie herself--recognize spite for what it is.
57- I thought Mr. Rogers bests Chuck Norris?
72- And from the video it seems Giuliani fails that test as well.
35: I meant wholesome to modify accounting practices, which you can tell, because on its own "the party of accounting practices" doesn't make much sense.
62: It's sad, but RedState doesn't even work as comic relief any more.
71: I think they should play a game: "Who's Man Enough to Waterboard John Ashcroft", with Ashcroft himself on stage, strapped down and ready to go. (And it would give Ashcroft the opportunity to see what it's like to be at the mercy of folks who you really aren't sure will actually stop.)
Mandatory cross dressing will be instigated upon the swearing in of Rudy the Swishy.
Admirable. But Rudy would probably outsource that policy to his mob connections in the Garment District and fuck it up, too.
However Republicans react to Dame Rudy, it's a win-win from my perspective. If they eviscerate him for it: fine--that's one less Rudy. If they tolerate it: fine--welcome to the real world.
2 is hopelessly naive. That man is our next president, I'm afraid.
"Who's Man Enough to Waterboard John Ashcroft"
Reality TV as its best. Maybe if the writer's strike lasts another week?
79: My wife has been making a lot of scary noises about our leaving the country if Guiliani is elected next Nov. Scary because at first I think she's just being hyperbolic but no, wait, actually I'm pretty sure she's dead serious.
I agree that party of accounting practices doesn't make sense, but while the Republican party does claim to be the party of wholesome family values, I'm not aware of its claims to represent any kind of accounting practices, wholesome or otherwise.
79: I'm actually in the middle of a mild depressive episode right now, please don't push me over the edge.
82: It was meant to be a joke about Rudy's way of covering up payments to his girlfriend.
The comment is actually more interesting if you read both "wholesome" and "family" as modifying "accounting practices"
Some people are crazy.
For example, there's a "hostage situation" at a Clinton campaign office.
81 - Your wife is very wise, but look at his cratering numbers in IA and NH. The more people see of him, the less they like him, and that's going to be even more true if he makes it to the general (which I strongly doubt he will).
Katy Couric is the proctology lady, right? She went where no man had ever gone before (on TV). Give her credit.
88. True enough. Anal penetration on national TV! How did they get it past the censors?
Screw Canada. If Giuliani wins, I'm signing up for McManus's revolution.
while I thought two-time convicted felon Buddy Cianci was a heck of a mayor, he would have been laughed at if he had run for higher office. I think Buddy could have done it with just an assault conviction -- strong men who get things done sometimes beat up their estranged wives' boyfriends, you know? -- but the corruption rumors moved him into the nearby category of "corrupt but competent politician, possibly a good mayor in Deadwood
I realize no one cares, but Cianci got pasted in the 1980 governor's race long before all that unpleasantness about burning a guy with cigarettes. He was the GOP candidate that year and lost in a landslide.
Cianci was a pretty good mayor, if you didn't mind the third-world dictator trappings (every business in town, or at least off the East Side, having a prominently displayed campaign photograph of him, etc.) Cicilline, the new mayor, is in a number of ways better, though. He may not be able to do much about the sort of intractable problems every city has, but he's at least getting the streets paved. Garbage collection has also improved, and not just by eliminating a system of massive kickbacks.
86- What are the odds on which right-wing blog will say it's a setup to gain sympathy for Hillary?
Redstate- 5-1
Ace of Spades- 3-1
Malkin- 2-1
Free Republic- 1-50
I realize no one cares, but Cianci got pasted in the 1980 governor's race long before all that unpleasantness about burning a guy with cigarettes. He was the GOP candidate that year and lost in a landslide.
I care, JL! Well before my time, but that's interesting. Is Cicilline well-liked? The only thing I know about him, I confess, is that he's gay.
SP, what were the odds of a troll on DailyKos?
"There's certainly non-misogynistic straight-guy cross-dressing out there."
It remains unclear, however, whether Potter Stewart ever realized his test could be so applied.
I direct the Justice's attention to Eddie Izzard.
Eddie Izzard is straight? I've only seen limited amounts of his material, but I wouldn't have guessed that.
81 My mother agreed to move to Amsterdam with my wife and me and a bunch of our friends. We're thinking of buying a four unit flat and having wacky sitcom hijinks.
I believe so. Straightish, anyway.
98: Eddie Izzard is bi.
(Kobe joke removed on preview.)
Is Cicilline well-liked?
He's pretty well-liked, one of the most popular politicians in the state, actually. He's been involved in a long-running dispute with the firefighters union, and it's a tough time locally, which I'm sure has affected his image somewhat, but he still got re-elected with essentially no opposition last year and has a strong reputation. Of course, it's made easier by the fact that the current governor, once embraced as a sort of goofy, likeable type, has solidified an public image as a conservative ass. There's been a lot of speculation that Cicilline may run for governor himself, which I think many people would welcome, though he'd probably run into the same difficulty that all Providence mayors (and big city mayors generally) have had in reaching the state house. Then again, I don't know who would run against him, and it's a pretty sour time for Republicans up there these days. The most likely candidate for the GOP nomination would be Joe Laffey, a movement conservative type who ran against Lincoln Chafee for the GOP Senate nomination the last time around. Guys like him used to be rare around here, but they've been growing in numbers, and he's the most prominent, so it would be especially good to keep him out of office.
Quick Googling reveals that Cicilline has consistently had approval ratings in the 60% range.
Then again, I don't know who would run against him
Linc Chafee?
93: Redstate, AOS, and Malkin haven't jumped to politically convenient conclusions yet; even the commenters are being less wacko than usual.
I'm afraid to look at Free Republic.
I'm afraid to look at Free Republic.
sensible policy.
It goes without saying that it's my general policy, not specific to this incident.
Re Eddie Izzard, 100: "I believe so. Straightish, anyway."
That's like "truthiness"? Or would that make him "straighty"?
Anyway, I wasn't questioning the existence of the category; I was merely amused that "I know it when I see it" seemed to be applicable in a way I have no idea if Stewart ever considered.
Freeper:
Even if it wasn't a plant, it says a lot about her that we would even consider the possility.
103: I sort of know a passel of RI republicans and even they loathe Bush. But I think that these sorts of D/u/nes C/lub or Ho/pe Cl/ub WASPs dislike movement conservatives more than they do democrats.
105: Someone at Balloon Juice has looked at Free Republic. Yup, they're already assuming it's staged, as 109 says.
Heh, here's a funny thing. A "plant." What's been planted? Is there a generally accepted group of extremist nutcases, and Clinton placed a supporter among them? No. Was this person planted in the campaign headquarters? Probably not. No, some questioners in the YouTube debates were (allegedly, supposedly) planted, so everything that could possibly help a Democrat this week is the result of a plant.
Just speculating, because I have no intention of going to look, but how do they figure it helps her? Attention? Sympathy?
Linc Chafee?
Quite possibly, and I think a lot of people would welcome the thought of him in the race, but he's got a problem. He quit the GOP and it's not certain he could win a Democratic primary against someone who had a decent base of support in the party. He could try as an independent, but that has its own problems. Which leads to
But I think that these sorts of D/u/nes C/lub or Ho/pe Cl/ub WASPs dislike movement conservatives more than they do democrats.
Which is true, though I'm not sure Google-proofing the Dunes Club or the Hope Club is necessary. The problem for them is, they don't run the GOP the way they used to (Linc getting bumped off was a sign of that.) So on the one hand they'd be able to help fund a Chafee independent run, or even--though it may cause their hands to tremble--a Democratic bid. But there's not enough of these people to make a difference in terms of votes. It's guys from Cranston and Warwick who run the RI GOP now.
(The Dunes Club: man, now I'm thinking about Narragansett Beach, which is downright cruel on a freezing day at the end of November. Thanks.)
everything that could possibly help a Democrat this week is the result of a plant
A vegetable left wing conspiracy.
Well thanks for deciding for me, too! I don't much care, but I actually do know more than one RI matron who googles the DC "just to see," who would recognize this name, and might disagree with my characterization.
But I do agree that the Dunes Club is lovely. And being served a gimlet while lounging on the beach is lovelier still.
116: Does she go through all the 31,000+ results? I had to go through a few pages before I saw one that seemed to refer to the proper club.
The LAT has a pretty good comparison of the Democratic questions in the GOP youtube debate to the GOP questions in the Dem debate. (The heds were fairer in print.)
I honestly think we should respect other people's googleproofing, even if we think it's a little far-fetched What's the downside?
The downside is that far-fetched google-proofing is silly, and I don't want to have to participate in it. However there's been far too much senseless argument lately and I don't really much like adding to it; if anyone with access cares to google-proof 114, feel free.
One thousand years from now, after the zombie apocalypse and the final triumph of the flesh-eating bacteria, a post-human historian, encountering some version of this video in an iBook miraculously preserved by the tight embrace of a long-deceased DC blogger's skeletal arms, will be floored and amazed, and the dissertation he then writes will spark waves of revisionism all across the discipline of pre-zombie historiography. It will unlock for future generations the truest picture of our times.
did anyone see this http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/us/2007/11/30/hostin.abortion.pill.cnn