That state-abbreviation thing vexes me as well. Web monkeys, fix that for us, would you?
And you know what ELSE pisses me off??
What's the correct length of time to hold a grudge?
At a review session, held last night, for a final, to be held tomorrow, one of the students asked the group of four TAs, of which I am one, how long the answers to the "long answer" questions should be. The consensus was "long enough". If you look closely, you might find a lesson in this story.
Power tip: You can type into drop-down menus. If you can't, use a different web browser, because not being able to type into a drop-down menu sucks.
I laughed at the end of the video when Nietzsche says that he approves this message, but I'm a sucker for funny accent humor.
I think Yglesias may have mentioned this at some point, but why require a state at all? They require a zip code, which automatically implies a state.
What I really hate is drop-down menus for dates. Like I'm going to type in that my birthdate is 13/42/-12.
Individual grudges can be held forever, but it's uneconomical and tiring to hold more than about 10-20 active grudges at once, at least if you plan to do a good job of it. So I'd suggest picking the right number and then retiring an old grudge every time you add a new one, sort of a paygo system.
However, grudges can be "put to sleep" like a computer and then rebooted when appropriate.
So we've in the space of a couple of posts we've gone from Robin Williams c. Dead Poets Society to Andy Rooney c. Now.
How long to hold a grudge depends on the grievousness of the wrong and the circumstances of the wronged. Some people committed grave offenses against me some years ago when my father was dying, and I will always nurture my hatred for them, concentrating and polishing it until I start coughing up obsidian.
Andy Rooney! That's the person I was trying to think of.
I can't hold a grudge, and believe me I've tried. (I mean, I'm half Italian -- la vendetta and all that. I should be good at this!)
My brother, however, is chilling in his ability to recall slights, real and imagined, dating back to, I don't know, his baptism? It all pours forth when he's drunk. I was late meeting his girlfriend at the train station! 7 years ago!
The thing is that I'm quick to forgive in most cases, so in this case, where I sort of *want* to hold on to the grudge, I have to treat it gingerly, because I know it's fragile.
So right about the Kant ad.
As for grudges, as Jesus teaches, it depends.
Sorry about the slowness, folks. Drum linked to helpy-chalk's Iraq comment and our poor server is struggling, you fucking refresh monkeys.
We can't be trusted to enter our addresses correctly -- select boxes help prevent typos. So does requiring a zipcode and a state.
But if it really bugs you, download the web developer extension for Firefox. It adds a tab called "Forms" containing an item that lets you turn select boxes into text fields. It does a bunch of other useful stuff, too.
My sister-in-law still holds grudges against my sister about things that happened before 1967. Family is not an unmixed blessing.
Anyone who doesn't answer "forever" simply lacks the necessary will for a grudge, and shouldn't be allowed to hold them at all.
Only hold those grudges whereby you can, at the same time, will that everyone should hold the same grudge. Forever.
You should aspire to logical consistency in the sum-total of all grudges that you hold -- this implies that your grudges should not fade over time.
I can't really recall many grudges, ever. One or two people who've done really heinous things to me, I sort of hold a grudge against, but only if I haven't seen them for a while. Holding a grudge is just too hard to keep up if you see the person regularly. Eventually bland dislike takes over.
What Tom said. Validating user input *sucks*; easier to just give people a bunch of choices.
What, FL, do you have some problem with pure and simple juxtaposition as humor? I laughed, though it wasn't sidesplitting.
Getting the state is a good cross-check on the zip code and vice versa. I work with a program that collects such data and about 3% of people mis-enter one or the other. A quick comparison is useful.
IMO, it depends upon the nature of the grudge. Minor grudges, such as losing a parking space to the sports car that cut in front of one's own less-spritely sedan should be let go of once the requisite slashing of the tire valves/keying of the finish has occurred. Greater grudges, such as those held against a Luddite ex-employer who told all and sundry that one had "passworded" office boilerplate files that had been, in fact, made read-only so that the secretaries wouldn't inadvertently change them, need to be nursed for a decade or two, and can be refueled as necessary by conferring with other former employees, all of whom carry grudges. [Note: It is also possible to hold grudges on the part of bad deeds done to others.] Gigantic grudges, such as those against an ex who stole one's collection of first-edition, autographed SF, much of which was by now-deceased writers, have no expiration date. [However, with regard to the latter, I find that it is not really useful to hold onto grudges after the object of said grudge dies. At that point, the glee should be sufficient to overcome the grudginess.]
I haven't even bothered yet to click on the Kant attack ad.
22 - surely letting the next of kin off the hook is a sign of weakness.
What, FL, do you have some problem with pure and simple juxtaposition as humor?
Not every juxtaposition is humorous.
Andy Rooney! That's the person I was trying to think of.
When you forget his name, it's time to call off the grudge. Your hatred has taken years off the poor man's life.
I haven't even bothered yet to click on the Kant attack ad.
It's very short.
When I order stuff online, why can't I type in a state abbreviation rather than use a drop-down menu? This bothers me.
Because next thing you know, Canadians will start trying to type in provinces...
When you forget his name, it's time to call off the grudge.
I hate definite descriptions. "The guy who did φ to me in seventh grade"; "whoever it is who's responsible for this mess", etc. I don't even know some of their names.
should be let go of once the requisite slashing of the tire valves/keying of the finish has occurred.
This raises an important issue.
The way in which the grudge is terminated is an important variable, on par with the gravity of the original offense.
If the offense can be avenged, the appropriate interval could be a few days to a few years (revenge, as we all know, being a dish best served cold).
If the grudge peters out into bland dislike--well that's not a very satisfying outcome, is it?
If the grudge is freely and voluntarily relinquished in the spirit of Christian forgiveness--ah, who am I kidding here?
If the grudge is papered over because the person is in a position of power or influence and you can't afford to be on bad terms with him/her, its shelf life is eternal. It should be resuscitated like a bacterial endospore emerging from dormancy when a convenient moment arises, i.e. the person unexpectedly needs your help.
The most satisfying way to let go of a grudge is when it can be laughed off with faux graciousness because offender has fallen on hard times, or you have somehow bested the offender in a way that is painfully obvious to him or her ("Living well is the best revenge.") This explains, for example, why I feel no ill-will toward the guy who bullied me in school.
If you have a problem holding grudges against people long enough, you just have to kill them sooner.
The Kant ad would have sounded like a good idea in the pub, but making it killed the joke. Probably whoever did it found they couldn't maintain a grudge against Kant.
29: I've found that "living is the best revenge" works quite well. Of course, it didn't hurt that before his untimely demise, the ex had been disbarred, lost a subsequent job, been forced to sell his house...
It's always nice to discover that the universe is on one's side...
I'd never trust most people to type in a state abbreviation. Too many still believe Arkansas = AK, and AR = Arizona. Who knows how they'd abbreviate Alaska?
Thinking about it makes me terribly glad I don't live in Arkansas any more...
I haven't seen the Kant attack ad. Unfogged is really the only blog that I read now. Where is it?
"The guy who did φ to me in seventh grade"
Ben is pheed off.
Who pronounces it "fee", except, perhaps, modern Greeks?
Better would be ψ: "Ben is pssied off."
Why hold the grudge? He's in the gym, you're in the gym, you're both messing around with heavy weights. That should be enough of a hint.
And 32: is right. Last I heard there were almost as many typing errors in medical data entry as there were in general stuff.
Who pronounces it "fee", except, perhaps, modern Greeks?
My algebra teacher in high school.
Better would be ψ: "Ben is pssied off."
ν, what else would you expect?
If the grudge peters
Grudge peters are the very best kind.
I can't find the character for "asilon".
Juxtaposition, like versimilitude, is sometimes humorous, but more frequently a ninth grade vocabulary word.
I wave my hand dismissively at all of you. It's a funny concept, even if it wasn't executed well.
28: I have a grudge against the bastard who invented the motion-sensitive singing Christmas tree.
He should be boiled with his own pudding, and buried with a stake of holly through his heart.
I can't find the character for "asilon".
It's like all the others, SB: &asilon;.
See?: &asilon;
Grudge should be held until they can be collated into bigotry. I am no longer offended by an act of any particular Republican or native of Pittsburgh, but can smile on each individual benevolently, act with grace & kindness, and think of mass crucifixions or miles of impalements.
47 is going to be in my "Best of Unfogged" book.
Um, Bob, is your anti-Pittsburgh animus a previously-disclosed condition?
I just live here, man. I was born in NY.
Who pronounces it "fee", except, perhaps, modern Greeks?
Um, ancient Greeks?
Really? "Fie" is just out and out wrong?
Damn.
bI can't really recall many grudges, ever. One or two people who've done really heinous things to me, I sort of hold a grudge against, but only if I haven't seen them for a while.
I fart in your general direction, you effete Old European wet fart born of a whorish mother and fathered by a pack of jackals! (H/T Zaporozhean Cossack via Guillaume Apollinaire).
I find that grudges often have a staying power of their own, unaffected by my own notions of their value. So the girl who said she'd go on a date with me in 9th grade, then, when her friends questioned her decision, slipped me a note saying Never Mind, will never be forgiven. I actually think she was a pretty nice person, but I have no say in this. The Grudge has spoken.
My grudge against the woman who ran a red light and near-totaled my car on my wedding night is diluted by my grudge against the awful lawyer who kept me from recovering any rental car damages (9 weeks!); the lawyer, who resembled Anne Coulter, said awful, misogynistic shit about my wife in front of the arbitrators. I was literally speechless, which was of course her intention.
My wife has a doozy of a grudge against my bad old ex-GF, but I think she claims that it has mellowed.
50:It goes back to the 70's Super Bowls. You may have a chance to redeem yourself this season. Mostly kidding about Pittsburgh.
I am thinking of developing my grudge theories for my science of misanthropy. I hold almost no personal grudges or dislikes, and am constantly caught saying nice things about Cowen or McArdle.
In a "What does not destroy me" sense, I am usually grateful to those that cause me pain. "Ah shoulda known better"
Fie on "fie," says I.
I had a horrifying moment a few weeks ago, hearing this guy pronounce some Homer; his &eta sounded more like an "ah," whereas I had always believed that it was pronounced, essentially, the way that fraternity members do. With great relief, I found this, which confirms my belief. As long as someone who knows what they're talking about agrees with me, that's close enough.
η
I am ashamed to admit that I didn't recognize this letter. I'm old, I'm old!
It goes back to the 70's Super Bowls. You may have a chance to redeem yourself this season. Mostly kidding about Pittsburgh.
I was a Giants fan at the time, but I'll warn my sister away from you.
I love that Bob is only "mostly" kidding.
I am ashamed to admit that I didn't recognize this letter.
It's OK - Homer wouldn't have, either.
Um, ancient Greeks?
Nah, the ancient Greeks pronounced it "Pee", with a bit of breath in it. The standard English pronunciation is "Fie", and Ben is Behovely, but All shall be well, and All manner of thing shall be well.
Is the game today to tease JRoth by pretending not to get his jokes? I didn't get the memo.
The game is to suss out the intention from the avowals and the actions.
3/5: For what it's worth, constraining your choices has probably saved you more in buggy/crashing software than cost you in time. The best thing to do is constrained, but with hotkey/lookup/autofill whatever.
it's uneconomical and tiring to hold more than about 10-20 active grudges at once
piker.
Wales is the Land of Grudges. We like grudges like the French like wine. Grudges occupy roughly the same position in our culture that the Catholic Church occupies in Vatican City.
But having a proper grudge shouldn't mean that you snarl at the guy. The Welsh way is that you treat your enemy with kindness and politeness, right up until the moment when they wake up and one of their bodily appendages isn't on.
For the record, I knew 59. But the relevant discussion was about the &iota.
64: right ... a grudge shouldn't ruin *your* day, after all. Just theirs, one day.
Heh. My (in theory, at some remove) Welsh father taught us the following playground rhyme:
Never let your anger show,
Nor strike your little friend a blow.
Better wait till you are cool
And then half kill the little fool.
Apparently harking back to the coal mines of his ancestry.
3/5: For what it's worth, constraining your choices has probably saved you more in buggy/crashing software than cost you in time. The best thing to do is constrained, but with hotkey/lookup/autofill whatever.
To my great surprise, LLBean offered to send my houseshoes to Palau today. Still better than scrolling past all those goddamn N and O states. Fuck off, Oklahoma, says I.
OT: Has anyone here ever used either the Canon PIXMA MX310 All-in-one or the HP Officejet 5610? They seem comparable, and about the same price.
All mathematicians, without exception, pronounce φ as "fee", not "fie". The rest of you are ignorant savages who are surely gnawing on bones right now as you try to suss out the mysteries of the QWERTY keyboard.
Typing the first letter of the state abbreviation usually seems to work when your state has a unique first letter.
I can't hold grudges at all. You bastards.
70: That's the kind of thing you should share first with your partner, not the Internet.
JRoth: I have the Pixma MP530 (all-in-one inkjet) and I'm really happy with it. (About $140 at Amazon.)
with your partner, not the Internet.
Not really understanding this distinction.
JRoth: I have the Pixma MP530 (all-in-one inkjet) and I'm really happy with it. (About $140 at Amazon.)
Alright, close enough. Baby needs a color printer.
All mathematicians, without exception, pronounce φ as "fee", not "fie".
Because they've never been taught any better.
You can pronounce a loan word (or character) approximately as in the original language or you can anglicise it. But when a loan word has been happily anglicised for centuries, there's no justification for switching to the other approach just because somebody comes across it for first time and assumes it's foreign.
Get back to me when physicists start talking about the Kobnhaven interpretation.
Related to 75, all those goats who think they're being correct by saying "Keltic" and looking down on the rubes who only know Glasgow Seltic and the Boston Seltics, are actually reproducing a mispronunciation made popular by German classicists of the 19th century who pronounced the name of the Celtoi in Roman histories as if it were a German word.
re: 76
I thought that the Roman 'C' was pronounced /k/?
They better be calling themselves 'klassikists,' then.
Wikipedia:
The first literary reference to the Celtic people, as Κελτοί (Κeltoi), is by the Greek historian Hecataeus of Miletus in 517 BC; he locates the Keltoi tribe in Rhenania (West/Southwest Germany).
GALLIA est omnis divisa in partes tres, quarum unam incolunt Belgae, aliam Aquitani, tertiam qui ipsorum lingua Celtae, nostra Galli appellantur. Hi omnes lingua, institutis, legibus inter se differunt.
Surely he'd've used a different spelling in the Celts called themselves Selts.
You know, one doesn't hear as much about this: Horum omnium fortissimi sunt Belgae, propterea quod a cultu atque humanitate provinciae longissime absunt, minimeque ad eos mercatores saepe commeant atque ea quae ad effeminandos animos pertinent important,
What were the Romans selling?
It's Keltic when you're talking about a people, and Seltic when you're talking about a team. That's the English language, and I won't hear a word against it.
All mathematicians, without exception, pronounce φ as "fee", not "fie".
Good, I was really starting to second guess myself. Like, have I been being the idiot prof who can't pronounce greek letters?
Is there also a "mathematical" pronunciation of eccentricity? I seem to remember a mathematics prof of mine saying ess-sent rather than ek-sent.
I think those are alternatives -- I hear (and I think I say) either, and neither sounds wrong to me.
My before-everything-went-to-hell Webster's 2nd gives only ek-sen for all meanings. Maybe the ess is a British pronunciation; the guy I'm remembering was.
No part of Britain I've ever heard of. Sounds like he was just dotty.
That's not a familiar pronunciation to anyone else? It sounds perfectly normal to me. Maybe I grew up around someone who said it that way?
No, never heard that.
Pronouncing it "Excentrixcity" would be more likely, I think.
81: There are parts of Herodotus where certain groups are described as not knowing luxury, which makes them fearsome, for not only are they tough, but once they figure out what luxury is, they'll want it and decide to take it. Perhaps the same sentiment underlies Caesar's writing, but it's more fun to imagine Roman merchants selling anti-Viagra.
I'm rather fond of German classicists of the 19th century.
92: Really? They're kind of terrifying! Nutter racists! Nutter racists who basically invented my profession. *sigh*
Terrifying but awesome: you know, like, sublime.
95: Yeah, I pretty much agree. You can get into JSTOR, right? Right now, go, I mean it, and read "One Hundred Years of Fractiousness: Disciplining Polemics in Nineteenth-Century German Classical Scholarship." So awesome.
You can get into JSTOR, right?
Hélas, no; I'm one of the drop-outs.
Oh noes! Well, if you care I can easily email it to you.
Hey, oudemia, would you mind cc'ing me while you're at it? My email's at the link.
All mathematicians, without exception, pronounce φ as "fee", not "fie".
This actually isn't true, but "fie" is uncommon.
Is there also a "mathematical" pronunciation of eccentricity? I seem to remember a mathematics prof of mine saying ess-sent rather than ek-sent.
ess-sent is common.
My email's at the below link.
Eh, I don't want to make a thing of it, B.
Oh, I don't mean to make a thing. Just saying "huh."
103: me too, it's nigh impossible to keep straight what various 'nmys are up to, so sometimes a comment suprises.
Fearsome peoples who don't know luxury are found at the frontiers of every classical civilization (Chinese, Muslim, Roman, Greek, Mesopotamian, Indian.) Ibn Khaldun worked this up into a theory of history AND a theory of the state, and in our time Ernest Gellner revived and refined it. My interest in the Mongols and related peoples is motivate by these themes.
As often as not the barbarians were victims, and the defenders of civilization were often barbarian mercenaries. When barbarian groups gained control of civilized areas, they gradually became civilized and vulnerable to the new barbarians replacing them on their borders.
Hélas
Jesus, all this time I've been writing it "Hèlas". I still think it looks better that way.
How's your French pronunciation, Ben?
"my French pronunciation" is a nonreferring term.