Re: Weird Moments In Internationalism

1

I remember a similar moment like that years ago which was based on a misplaced belief that all language had to 'pass' through American English. You're Chinese and yet speaking to someone in French? Without going through English first?


Posted by: moira | Link to this comment | 02-18-08 9:21 AM
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2

Tony Randall once told a story on Carson about listening to some piece of classical music in which Latin was spoken/sung with a German accent. Tony thought this was hilarious, and Johnny though Tony was hilarious.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 02-18-08 9:23 AM
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Speed bumps.

In one of the damned threads here this weekend, someone posted a link to part of Jarmusch's Night on Earth. The Youtube clip featured Benigni and it was in Italian. But no problem, it has subtitles. Wait, the subtitles were in French! My mind had trouble with that.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 02-18-08 9:24 AM
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Yup, I did a doubletake once in a Chinese restaurant in New Zealand at the guy behind the counter with an NZ accent for similarly irrational reasons.

Now, this thing particularly, I was a little better justified in being weirded out, because I think there's some fair expectation that someone with a "Learn Spanish" radio show should sound like a native speaker of Spanish -- a "Learn Spanish" show that was conducted mostly in accentless American English would also be kind of pointless. And boy, these two sounded very Scottish, like, no chance at all that they were native Spanish speakers. (To be precise, they didn't sound very Scottish. They sounded very 'grew up Scottish but are now approximating BBC English for the radio.' But not Spanish.)


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02-18-08 9:28 AM
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5

What dialect were they using? Don't Brits learn Castilian?


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 02-18-08 9:37 AM
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6

I've heard that one too, LB. They are also discussing Spanish spanish, rather than any variant from the Americas. So it's probably doubly jarring for, say, a Californian used to hearing (but not understanding) Mexican spanish


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 02-18-08 9:39 AM
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7

Yeah, there was a funny moment with the lisp on 'cena' where I did a doubletake -- "thena"? What's "thena"? Tonight I'll go find myself some nice Latin American podcast with no Scots.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02-18-08 9:39 AM
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8

I.e., "debeis aprender espanol inmediatamente."


Posted by: moira | Link to this comment | 02-18-08 9:41 AM
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9

Incidentally, the vosotros really is pretty awesome. One of those things I wish New World Spanish would incorporate because it's weird to go from informal you, to formal, plural you, when really all you want to do is talk to youse guys. Feels like I'm giving whoever I'm talking to a promotion just because someone else walked into the conversation.


Posted by: moira | Link to this comment | 02-18-08 9:43 AM
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10

7: And no .


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 02-18-08 9:43 AM
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11

Oops.

7: And no Argentinians.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 02-18-08 9:44 AM
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12

I've listened to those podcasts, too, LB! And I had the same reaction. I was similarly nonplussed at being taught Mandarin by (I think) an Australian? Or something?


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 02-18-08 9:59 AM
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13

I once went on a tour of a winery in France with a group of American students, and the French winery employee conducting the tour began speaking in English. It quickly became apparent that she had learned English in Scotland, so she spoke English with a Scottish accent layered on top of a French accent, making her nearly incomprehensible. Someone quickly told her as politely as possible that we would prefer that she speak in French.


Posted by: My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 02-18-08 10:12 AM
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14

13: I had a professor who was from Poland and learned English from the various Dutch people he worked with in the Netherlands. He was almost completely incomprehensible because he was also very arrogant and talked as fast as possible.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 02-18-08 10:18 AM
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15

When I took Spanish in high school, one of the teaching aids they used was this terrible 1970s language-educational Spanish soap opera - except it was British-produced. The Spanish parts weren't so bad (in terms of accent), but dropping out of the enrapturing story for a discussion of the language mechanics with an English accent was too much for that part of my brain.


Posted by: Nathan Williams | Link to this comment | 02-18-08 10:28 AM
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16

Ye gods, it's on YouTube. Of course. With great shame for somebody, I present Zarabanda.


Posted by: Nathan Williams | Link to this comment | 02-18-08 10:34 AM
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17

FWIW the few times I've had to listen to language tapes with American English on them it's been similarly jarring. I mean, if they can't even pronounce the English properly...


Posted by: Nakku | Link to this comment | 02-18-08 10:41 AM
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18

Ah, the Jarmusch clip.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 02-18-08 10:46 AM
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19

17 gets it right.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 02-18-08 10:59 AM
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20

Of course, on the upside, I now know the Spanish for "haggis" and for "a good stomping."


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02-18-08 11:01 AM
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21

una bolsa hecha de la carne and
forma correcta de hacer frente a un americano, respectively.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 02-18-08 11:04 AM
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The Youtube clip featured Benigni and it was in Italian. But no problem, it has subtitles. Wait, the subtitles were in French! My mind had trouble with that.

I posted the French-subtitled version of that clip because all the English-subtitled clips of that scene that I found on youtube omitted the critical humping-on-the-Vespa shot near the beginning.

Oddly enough, I first saw Night on Earth in a German cinema with German subtitles, with my then-girlfriend who spoke no German. She did OK through the LA and NYC scenes, and was competent enough in French to get the Paris scene, but then was out of luck by the time the Rome scene with Benigni came up. I tried translating for her on the fly, but I was doubled over laughing and couldn't keep up. By the time it got to the Helsinki scene, she was frustrated with me and told me she wanted to leave.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 02-18-08 11:08 AM
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23

21: Ooh, nicely played.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02-18-08 11:10 AM
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24

Don't tell me you know Finnish, too, KR.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 02-18-08 11:16 AM
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25

Don't tell me you know Finnish, too, KR.

No, I don't. It was subtitled in German. We went to that movie because it was the only one being screened Original mit Untertiteln, but we hadn't grasped that "Original" didn't necessarily mean English.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 02-18-08 11:40 AM
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26

Among the English teachers I knew in Tokyo, there were probably a dozen or so different accents. Must have been confusing for the few students who bounced from American to English to Antipodean English.

My then-gf there took me to see Project A, which was in Cantonese with Japanese subtitles. I spent a little while unsuccessfully trying to figure out the story by reading, but finally gave in and just waited for the stunts.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 02-18-08 11:42 AM
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27

This video will help you learn Spanish:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fda4_wo6JI


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 02-18-08 11:42 AM
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28

I saw Armor of God without subtitles or overdubbing. The movie was incomprehensible, but it turned out later when I saw it overdubbed that I really only needed two sentences of background to understand the movie completely.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 02-18-08 11:44 AM
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29

My Calculus III professor was a visiting Russian whose second language was French and who had learned English in the UK. It was impossible to parse anything that came out of his mouth and he habitually wrote on the board in nonsense Frenglish. He very quickly realized our plight and made everything open-book.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 02-18-08 11:59 AM
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30

I watch films in Czech with no subtitles fairly often. I don't understand Czech anything like well enough to follow a film but luckily my language consultant usually clues me in enough to get the gist.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 02-18-08 12:02 PM
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31

Check out spanishpod.com - or, if you're interested in Chinese, chinesepod.com

good stuff


Posted by: Dan Theman | Link to this comment | 02-18-08 12:29 PM
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32

I saw Cinema Paradiso with French subtitles. It's actually a Franco-Italian film, and one of the important characters was French. I'm told that his Italian accent was flawless.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 02-18-08 12:32 PM
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33

i am learning Spanish on my own as well. I recommend:

http://ssl4you.blogspot.com/

A Podcast by a teacher from Spain, that is has short blog-like clips, with an accompanying English translation on the web site. Very nice if you know just a little Spanish.

Also, you might want to check out this free video series, Destinos, done in the form of a telenovela, or Spanish soap opera, but for beginners. By the end of the 34 episodes, you are able to understand a great deal of spoken spanish.

Mark


Posted by: Mark Haag | Link to this comment | 02-18-08 12:47 PM
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34

31, 33: Thanks!


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02-18-08 12:49 PM
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35

OK, all you smarties. I'm an intermediate spanish student (vocabulary of a few thousand words, comfortable hearing most any grammatical construction), and I'm particularly weak in listening comprehension. What I'd love is some *good* spanish language entertainment with spanish language subtitles. Algo existe?

The simpsons has a spanish dub + spanish subs on the dvds, but unfortunately, the subs are direct translations, and the dubs looser, so not amazingly useful. (Tambien, no me gustan mucho las voces de los actores hispanohablantes.)


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 02-18-08 1:01 PM
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36

LB, use this. My friend (and occcasional unfogged commenter) JP is one of the folks that runs it. He's the smiling Filipino guy in the picture on the front page there.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 02-18-08 1:06 PM
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37

Hey, he's the guy who wrote the post that set off our last bout of whiteness-related navel-gazing. I will check it out.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02-18-08 1:08 PM
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38

36: He is? I thought Ogged got that from Megan.

(That said, he is a most awesome person and has written many excellent posts.)


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 02-18-08 1:20 PM
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39

No, the one before this one. JP was guesting at your place, and wrote something that got me vaguely thinking about whiteness as an ethnicity, and I put up a couple of posts that weren't a response or all that closely connected to what he wrote, but were vaguely suggested by it. A year or so ago.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02-18-08 1:25 PM
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40

Huh, so he did. That JP. Asian people are so clever.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 02-18-08 1:27 PM
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41

39: Ah. In any case, see his current top post and the brief mention of us at the end of the post below it here. And then shut up and eat your fusion cuisine.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 02-18-08 1:29 PM
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42

I downloaded some Spanish language podcasts but had to stop listening to them because I developed an intense dislike for the protagonist of the little episodes. "I want a room. I want aspirin. I am here on business. Where is my towel. I am not hungry. I am thirsty. Give me a bottle of water. I am American. I am from Ohio. I am called Jennifer. I want a taxi." How boring you are, Jennifer.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 02-18-08 4:53 PM
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43

Going to bed now, but I guess this is the right thread to ask; does anyone know any good sites that could help me improve my French? Scots speakers are no problem. Just something interesting enough that I will visit it, unlike the 5 books of verbs that I let collect dust in the hall.


Posted by: Penny | Link to this comment | 02-18-08 10:02 PM
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44

the podcasts at http://www.notesinspanish.com/ are light-hearted and enjoyable, but may emanate from the wrong side of the Atlantic for your taste


Posted by: reuben | Link to this comment | 02-19-08 2:19 AM
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45

Penny, have you tried reading French blogs? There are a couple of interestingly chatty ones -- the European blog awards at AFOE would be a good place to start looking.


Posted by: Nworb Werdna | Link to this comment | 02-19-08 3:23 AM
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46

Thanks Nworb, I'll check that out.


Posted by: Penny | Link to this comment | 02-19-08 12:35 PM
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