BLDGBLOG had a really beautiful little post about this a while ago.

Oh Becks. Agriculture and apocalypse? You DO love me.

I've been to one of the Rice Institutes, inside the vaults and everything. Pretty cool stuff.

I read the linked text as "Doomsday Sed Vault" and thought it referred to something like the IOCCC.

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Rep. Adam Putnam is in the news today, and I don't care what anyone says, he really is a Howdy-Doody-looking nimrod.

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Why no frozen tissue/gamete samples for animals? Freeze them now, and assume cloning technology will make them useful in case of extinction.

I am looking forward to the movie version of The Road.

Sure, it might not be as good as A Boy and His Dog, but it might be close.

Everyone knows the UN has a massive weather-control system powered by windmills in Canada and that they are using this technology to punish the rogue nations of (e. g.) Africa who thusly experience drought and famine.

At least, that's what the guy from MOM told my AP Government class.

High school in Montana was exciting.

It is not safe to keep the seeds at Svalbard where they might get destroyed by crazy panserbjorne.

Why no frozen tissue/gamete samples for animals?

Most of them are not commercially significant.

Is 6 a joke? I'm totally looking forward to the movie version of The Road...

Svalbard

Kingdom of the Ice Bears?

Are you all aware of the story about the All-Union Seed Repository in the old USSR? It was (I think) the largest in the world at the time, and it survived the 900-day siege of Leningrad intact, even as several of the scientists charged with overseeing it died of starvation. I can't even imagine the devotion to science required not to dip into those precious stores of edible seeds, especially for the parents of starving children.

10:

No. World destruction made me think of it.

Will the ice bears look like Eisbär Flocke? Because I wouldn't want to rely on the loyalty of the Cute Overload people if that were the case.

So I'm starting to buy into the theory that the rise of post-apocalyptic Mad-Max style movies in the 80s was a part of the general Republican assault on government and civil society in general.

Roughly: the ideas like mutual aid is impossible, or that we are all self interested agents in a state of universal competition, or that government action is futile get promoted by people who profit from the deterioration of the public sphere. The idea that the public sphere is a compelling image, and is picked up and made literal by sci-fi writers in Hollywood in the form of post-apocalyptic movies. These movies then turn around and reinforce the general social climate of every-man-for-himself.

Is that completely stupid?

15:

Don't forget the gun people. They love these survival shows and movies.

But, so do the religious people too. better get god!

15: Except that a lot of those movies are actually about the rediscovery or reinvention of mutual aid, in one fashion or another. Yeah, usually through the dogged and charismatic presence of a loner who comes in out of the wilderness, etcetera, but it's a bit much to expect a two-hour entertainment to feature the heroic deeds of an autonomous collective.

Thing is, there are end-of-the-world movies for all political persuasions. The gun people have Red Dawn, the God people have Left Behind. Environmentalists have The Day After Tomorrow. I personal favor the end-of-the-world movies that work well as free floating metaphors, like the zombie and pod people franchises.

The theory is that underlying all of this, though, is a distrust of civil society. In my old age, I have come to believe civil society is a good thing. So now I'm wondering if I should distrust the genre.

Just want to note that the UN seems to have been behind this and it's pretty awesome.

Not stupid, but I think not right answer. Kevin Costner tried making a couple of differently-leaning action movies, some even made money. He wasn't alone in doing that. Why is the ideology of low-budget outsider Mad Max more central than that of say Liquid Sky or Repo Man?

8: The panserbjorne are guarding the Seed Vault. Duh!

I en't convinced.

When will my screenplay about concensus-based house-meetings in the Agrarian Utopia get picked up? I keep turning down unually lucrative tenure-track offers from coastal universities because I want to focus my energy on promoting the screenplay. But it is taking so long and it is so hard to hold onto hope.

I wonder if the more likely scenario is that such a cache is needed, not in the face of a natural catastrophe, but rather in the face of commercial pressure thinning out biodiversity (already the case) coupled with a GM screw up or two.

White people like His Dark Materials.

I think Megan has answered my question.

In my old age, I have come to believe civil society is a good thing.M

Sure, and in another 25 years you'll think so even more. However, you'll be both not needed and not able to survive, so it won't matter.

This whitey found them boring.

I ain't picky 'bout my apocalypse pron.

Speaking of pron, I am certain the Norwegians will be ringing my doorbell any minute. See yuh later

concensus-based house-meetings

oh, the horror. my fever addled brain is doing replays of some particularly bad ones. where you get into the meta-conversation about how the consensus process is supposed to work.

Grasses are pretty fucked-up, smart money would be on a technically simple and reversible manipulation to enhance the frequency of unusual phenotypes. It's handy to have frozen samples, but a cookbook to generate either the grain you want, or a slew of new ones to pick from is just as good.

Sure, and in another 25 years you'll think so even more. However, you'll be both not needed and not able to survive, so it won't matter.

Is No Country for Old Men, which I watched this morning, apocalypse pron? Perfect movie, blah ,blah, I liked the book better.

32:

Well, of course. The book was freaking great. The movie can fall down pretty far and still be darn good.

That is my feeling about the Road. The Road was one of the best books that I have read in a long time. The movie only has to be half as good to be worth watching.

31: I think the usual technique is to use radiation to create variation and then pick out the ones with desirable mutations.

Yes, the searchable phrase is mutagenesis. It's usually a risky research strategy (mutants need to be inbred to get the genetics right, and many are not viable). Grasses are a special case because their genomes are so dense with repetitive elements and polyploid, and many species self-fertilize to boot. Having the frozen seeds might save time in case of disaster. KR's cite to the Vavilov repository is interesting.

I keep turning down unusually lucrative tenure-track offers from coastal universities because I want to focus my energy on promoting the screenplay.

Diablo Cody might have some promotional tips for you.

36: First step, goodbye water use policy blog, hello stripper blog.

I hadn't been aware of this Flocke character. Dang. White people like white bears.

You know, I feel like if we're going to have a Seed Vault, we also need to have a Crazy Shit Vault that we can use to infect some grey, dreary and dystopian post-apocalyptic future that is needing some excitement and novelty. Initial contents could include:

1 monster truck
An album full of prints of goatse
That scary wind-up monkey with the cymbals that's always in Spielberg movies
The Statue of Liberty
Complete blueprints of the Starship Enterprise

33: I thought the book was ok, but not great. I can see a movie going either way (better or worse than the book).

There was an article in New Scientist I think [or maybe the Guardian? Something I read, anyway] recently about Nazi theft from some of the Soviet seed repositories, possible murders and post-war connivance with a British Army Officer.

40:

Well, Cormac is no Dean Koontz or Dan Brown. I'll grant you that. But I still enjoy his books.

we also need to have a Crazy Shit Vault

There are bits of California that have a pretty good jump on this.

42: I'm not saying it was in Dan Brown territory. I just found it dragged a bit, and mostly visited ideas that have shown up in other post-apoc. books. It was worth reading, but didn't live up to its press, for me.

i read 12 and recalled another japanese documentary about two elephants at the Tokyo Zoo
so they run out of food for the elephants and just starved them to death, in 1944 ircc
they did not just starve them but shot a documentary on the stages of starvation in elephants, poor elephants with cute names, forgot their names, they continued to do their daily public entertaining routines in front of the camera begging in hope they'd get fed
it was so heartbreaking to watch that docu
but i'm not judging, may be the personnel really did not have anything to feed them
just felt contrast with KR's story, i don't know
may be it's better to feed seeds to the starving children instead of that great scientific sacrifice
either way disgusting science

I hadn't been aware of this Flocke character

If you're not afraid of exposure to dangerously high levels of cuton radiation, you might care to watch the Flocke videos on YouTube.

One of the more interesting "apocalypse" sites I have found is CONELRAD: All Things Atomic | The Golden Age of Homeland Security. It has a great list of "atomic records" among other intersting items (the 1964 "Daisy" ad is featured on the front page right now).

18 Thing is, there are end-of-the-world movies for all political persuasions.
The atheists have The Rapture (Michael Tolkin, 1991)

23 When will my screenplay about concensus-based house-meetings in the Agrarian Utopia get picked up?
Probably about the same time my novel about a peaceful transition to a federation of anarchist arcologies gets published.

45: so they run out of food for the elephants and just starved them to death, in 1944 ircc
Christ, why didn't they just eat them while they were still nice and meaty? Even a Level 5 vegan would have to agree that that would have been more humane.

People who don't like Flocke are godless communists.

Probably about the same time my novel about a peaceful transition to a federation of anarchist arcologies gets published.

Do you talk a lot about developing the overarching charter and the different personalities of the arcologies? Because I would read that.

Sure, Flocke is happy now, but her future holds nothing but frustration and desperation.

51: I haven't started writing it yet, 'cause I can't figure out what the conflict would be. I'm kinda leaning towards a trilogy, so that you could have the progression from the idea to the realization to the inevitable decay, but there would still be time for hundreds of years of people living in arcologies. Which would make me happy.

51: I haven't started writing it yet, 'cause I can't figure out what the conflict would be.

Human beings are involved, right?

Well, yeah, but I haven't decided whether I think it would be better for a stranger to come to town, or alternately, for some people to go on a journey.

Don't forget that two or more people have to have wild sex. That's important in novels.

Christ, why didn't they just eat them while they were still nice and meaty? Even a Level 5 vegan would have to agree that that would have been more humane.

Indeed. That sounds like a documentary I am too soft-hearted to watch.

Very short wild sex and then a long but catchy explanation of how anarchist arcs solve their collective action problems to build infrastructure.

Atlas Joyfully Shouldered His Fairly Apportioned Burden

Excuse me. Hir.

elephant meat is edible? never heard that
i meant if not banana, couldn't they find just some grass and bamboo to feed the poor things
and over months they were just shooting the film, really criminal cruelty
but it seems it was the army order
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ueno_Zoo
i was wrong to blame the personnel

not personnel, science
losing the thread of what i thought, messy

59 cont. And Threw It Through The Window of the Oppressors.

61: I have no idea what elephant meat tastes like, but I hardly think it could be poisonous. And people in Tokyo in 1944 probably would have been glad of the sustenance, even if it was a bit gamy.

56: Oh, believe me, there would be some wild sex in the arcologies, alright. And not just infinite fellatio, either.

61: A quick google suggests that people in Thailand consider it an aphrodisiac.

Far-left utopias never feature just infinite fellatio.

New rule for utopian literature: You are not allowed to assume infinite sources of free energy. That's cheating.

67: Aww, man. But the capitalists do it all the time!

no sympathy for the elephants here, sigh
but if you watched the documentary you would cry

have cried

66 is amazing. What is that website? It's a really odd collection of prose set to music, and I can't quite figure out a unifying theme, if it's all sourced from various places, or if that person is actually writing it all.

It's Young-Hae Chang Heavy Industries, of course.

One of them consists of the contents of a metafilter thread devoted to discussing one of the other animations.

DAKOTA is fuckin' great.

15: sounds plausible, but the truly right-wing genre is the slasher movie. "Bad" people punished for drinking/drugs/sleeping with each other. Government absent or incompetent (often the slasher's been released by idiot parole boards who believe in their woolly way that he's reformed). No cooperation - the cliche is "let's split up and search independently". One person left standing at the end triumphs through violence and his/her innate moral superiority.
Monster movies, on the other hand, are for FDR liberals; everyone working together regardless of race, creed or color, courage in the face of a threat, and Big Government (often in the form of the Army or the scientists who invent the anti-monster device) doing its honest best.

re: 74

That reminds me of Spinrad's contention that science fiction is often the fascist genre, par excellence. Hence, The Iron Dream [and also some of his short stories from The Star Spangled Future].

Megan and Minne, when have you each last listened to Blows Against the Empire? iTunes has an acoustic demo version of Hijack that captures the spirit well.

In 1977 I had a housemate who'd dropped out of architecture school to be part of an arcology cell. I wonder what became of him . . .

Google brings up exactly one "arcology cell". Yay Napi! He's #2! I'm #3!