Interesting to see Brad DeLong get onto the elite list but not the general list.
Also:
For The Corner: number of media mentions = "n/a"
Also no women. Not Digby, not Lindsay.
Interesting to see Brad DeLong get onto the elite list but not the general list.
Not surprising, though.
Path dependence must account for Atrios's respectable position on both lists. It pays to get in on the ground floor.
3: Yeah, but are there really any big-name female bloggers?
But, but, what about at The Corner?
Conservative women don't count.
I was pretty amazed to see Mickey Kaus was third on the list - he's basically the internet version of Lou Dobbs. Don't people recognize a no-talent hack when they see one?
This is exactly the list I would have predicted, if this was 2003.
There's been so much change in which bloggers are popular with other bloggers, but it seems like whatever happened to be in vogue when the blogosphere was first recognized as being powerful has been completely locked in place.
And even the elite media likes the National Review blog, but not the New Republic blog? I mean...what the hell? The National Review blog is written on a first-grade level, and spends most of its time mocking people who share the values of the elite media, and doesn't even contain any breaking news.
Oh, those funtastic conservatives!
3: Yeah, but are there really any big-name female bloggers?
Althouse, duh.
"path dependence" is the phrase I couldn't remember when typing 9. It really is stunning.
Nobody in the entire blogosphere has linked to anything Mickey Kaus has said since about 2005. I'm continually amazed that his little column still exists. And these people are still reading it?!?
This is exactly the list I would have predicted, if this was 2003.
The data are for early 2005, I think.
13: Okay, that nullifies every criticism thus far in this thread. Never mind.
Why oh why can't we have a better.... oh, never mind.
The data are for early 2005, I think.
Ahhhhh. That's three years ago; wow.
That's three years ago; wow.
The academic publication process is a lumbering beast.
You can download the pdf at atrios's link:
These hypotheses receive tentative support from an online survey conducted by the authors between September 2003 and January 2004, in which media employees were asked to provide information about the blogs that they read. 140 editors, reporters, columnists and publishers responded, ranging from "elite" media outlets like the New York Times and ABC News to rural publications with less than 10,000 readers.
I think that's the survey the results atrios posted comes from.
Vaguely on-topic, I was a little surprised to learn from this dubiously-titled list of the 50 most powerful blogs that Andrew Sullivan is British. I don't read him, so maybe that comes up a lot on his blog. I have to say it makes me even more irritable about his politics.
A nice safeguard against optimism about these United States:
Kaus, Sullivan, and Reynolds 39
Everyone Else 29(And among those 29 there are some more wingers.)
Atrios, Kos, DeLong, Marshall: 12 out of a total of 78.
Pretty good quality, granted their centrism.
I think Yglesias is much more recognized now. Getting blurbed by Fred Kaplan (Slate, not Evil), Hertzberg, and Dionne, with Kaplan saying he reads ever day, is a pretty good day at the office.
Don't waste your worry on Yglesias; there are others--lots spring to mind, but I'll go with standby Plumer--who deserve it more.
This is a powerful argument for the abolition of the Internet. If it weren't for eroticfalconry.com, I'd say the whole thing should be shut down.
Jesus. 13 ruins everything. Why did they even bother to publish? I guess next year they can announce the 2006 election results.
there are others [...] who deserve it more.
Like me! Worry about me!
Sorry, yeah, it's late 2003, not 2005.
Getting blurbed by Fred Kaplan (Slate, not Evil), Hertzberg, and Dionne, with Kaplan saying he reads ever day, is a pretty good day at the office.
Not to mention Ezra Klein.
Sorry, yeah, it's late 2003, not 2005.
In that case, NEVERMIND.
I just skimmed the linked paper. What jumped out at me was the terminology: "journalists use blogs." The word "use" was repeated about a dozen times. Is that just academic-voice or is it illustrative of the idea that people see themselves as "using" rather than reading or engaging with -- that is, making themselves vulnerable to or participating in -- the medium?
(I really should go to bed.)
JMcQ, please please tell me that 22 is a real site.
A quick search for years mentioned in the comments thread at atrios - no, I didn't read the comments - suggests that no one over there has pointed out when the data were collected.
I've dealt with public internet users long enough to know that any domain name with the word "erotic" in it is liable to open up with a vivid image, often totally unrelated to the ostensible focus of the site. No way am I going to be seeing something unpleasant in my nightmares for the next umpteen years because I trusted that a URL would be more or less what it promised.
(no, since you asked, I never click on Apo's links)
"journalists use blogs." The word "use" was repeated about a dozen times. Is that just academic-voice or is it illustrative of the idea that people see themselves as "using" rather than reading or engaging with
It means journalists "use" blogs to find story ideas, which they filter from the Internet bloodstream, much as kidneys filter your literal bloodstream for their output.
It's quite funny, Witt, not gross. NSFW, a little, but funny.
37: If it makes you feel any better, I almost always laugh at your jokes.
(OK, I clicked. Not gross, but a little sad, yes? And call me narrow-minded, but animals can't meaningfully consent...oh, this doesn't bear dwelling on. Time for bed.)
Witt, eroticfalconry.com is an extremely tasteful site. Have I ever lied to you? Just click on "stills" on the home page.
Okay, too late. Anyway: Photoshop.
how can people even be talking about 5 yr old data w/r/t the internet!?!?
Not gross, but a little sad, yes? And call me narrow-minded, but animals can't meaningfully consent...oh, this doesn't bear dwelling on.
Witt, you are simply wonderful.
The one with the falcon in the shower made me laugh out loud.
they often call me speedo, but my real name is mr. url/oh, they often call me speedo, but my real name is mr. url/and I'm just the kind of fellow always taking other folks' girls.
The amazing thing about 22 and 33 is that Jesus was able to put that site up, with pics of that quality, so quickly in service of his joke. I guess walking on water and multiplying shit was only the beginning. That's it, I'm converting.
Also, this whole thread is making my blood boil about the glacial pace of scholarly publication. And yes, I know, Teo pwned me waaaay upthread. Whatever. Ari angry. Ari smash academy.
Well, come ON, Ari. If it MATTERS it's not time-dependent. We leave that sort of thing to the ephemeral news media.
The amazing thing about 22 and 33 is that Jesus was able to put that site up, with pics of that quality, so quickly in service of his joke.
That site's actually been linked from here before, though I forget exactly when.
Not too long ago, but clearly Jesus bookmarked it. For some reason.
I don't think we need to assume he bookmarked it. It's not like the url is hard to remember.
T.H. White's The Goshawk is one of my favorite books and you perverts are ruining it for me forever.
Ruining it ... or making it even better?
Is The Goshawk really good? (I mean as fetish porn, of course.) Seriously, I think I have it on my shelf. And I could use a good book.
It's great. Right up there with Leaves of Hypnos and Ficciones as favorites.
Okay, I'll try it. You're on the hook, though, if I'm not enthralled by page sixteen. Just be warned.
If you're not enthralled, then you have no hook to threaten with.
Ari's had his hook ever since Peter Pan fed his hand to the crocodile.
It's not like the url is hard to remember.
Teo gets it right.
You people do not want to make fun of my hook. I mean it.
51: Yes, we *do* need to assume he bookmarked it. Because doing so is funnier, dammit.
59: Uh huh, suuuuuure.
As a journalist myself, I'd say I engage with and use blogs. The latter only for ones directly related to my work, that is to say financial ones. I also engage on those, but I don't use my real name (don't want my bosses finding how much time I spend on them). Places like Calculated Risk are invaluable in my line of work, both as news aggregators and as sources of insightful comment. It's also fascinating and fun to throw yourself into the comment threads, correcting errors where you see them, learning from other commenters when they know more than you, and thrashing out ideas. I'm amazed every journalist doesn't do this, to be honest, but the US press seems to be much more stuck in its ways than the UK press.
While it may no longer be relevant today, this study is interesting. If journalists were overwhelmingly still reading f-wits like Kaus or Reynolds in late 2003, theý were quite likely also reading them during the runup to the War on Iraq. So while the mainstream media were largely warmongering themselves, the blogs they read mostly confirmed their worldview. Yet at the time there were literally hundreds of antiwar blogs demolishing the cause for war on a daily basis.
Bah.
From the link in 19:
Nowadays the figure is 11m, recovering from a recent dip to 8m thanks to the showing of a Tom Cruise 'Indoctrination Video' which Scientologists had legally persuaded YouTube to take down.
Huh? Did Scientology sue away three million pageviews? I can't believe that there are that many Scientologists/Scientology sympathizers reading Gawker.
Erotic falconry! I learn something new every day! Also: boo to the glacial pace of academic publishing!
Also: I have nothing original to contribute! And I am drunk!!
Sigh.
Have another drink, Wry. Your derivative thoughts will begin to seem original. And witty. At least that's my experience. Come to think of it, I might have a drink myself.
I've actually started reading Atrios again, after several years of not. It's refreshing to see left-ish politics reduced to clever little nicknames -- like calling McCain "Huggy-Bear."
He calls McCain Huggy-Bear? Why? 'Cause he's so cuddly? Or because of his little-known roles in blaxploitation films and cop shows from the 70s?
He calls McCain Huggy-Bear? Why? 'Cause he's so cuddly?
Regarding Andrew Sullivan, it is a truth universally acknowledged that a British writer who begins to declare an excessive admiration for the United States will shortly decline into egregious hackishness. See also: Hitchens P, Hitchens C, Rushdie S, Amis M, Burchill J, Kettle M.
It's refreshing to see left-ish politics reduced to clever little nicknames
In his constant use of lengthy running gags and defacto open threads, Atrios represents a sort of one-man Mineshaft, only without the interesting or funny stuff. I don't remember where "preznit give me turkey" came from, for example, but I can only assume that its initial appearance was hilarious.
I did a survey of blog reading habits of reporters last summer. I came up with a completely different list. Almost none of them read Kos or Instapundit. They all read the smaller blogs that specialized in their particular beats. They also were big funs of TMZ.
how can people even be talking about 5 yr old data w/r/t the internet!?!?
I had a glimpse of the future yesterday. I visited a company's website, and the last update at the bottom was 2000. Crapaud de Nazareth, I thought, this is eight years old. Then: In 25 years, if the company keeps paying its Internet bills, this site will remain, a vivid, unmarred glimpse of a generation past.
This is your Overwrought Thought of the Day.
I am pleased to see my inchoate prejudices confirmed by our UK friends in 70 and 71.
Martin Kettle, ex-Communist, occasional Graun columnist, full time pain in the arse.
Also, this whole thread is making my blood boil about the glacial pace of scholarly publication. And yes, I know, Teo pwned me waaaay upthread. Whatever. Ari angry. Ari smash academy.
Hell hath no fury like a Historian pwned. (But see n.23 below for some exceptions.)
Pleased to say I've never heard of him. Nice to know there's at least one loathsome british pundit the U.S. media has not syndicated nationally.
One could wish that the Communists had been a little more selective in former days. Seems like every rightwing asshat in the world (outside the U.S., of course) has a faded, wrinkly membership card in his wallet.
The US press seems to be much more stuck in its ways than the UK press.
The US press has responsibilities, unlike the various colonial presses with their quaint local traditions. Though the UK is, of course, America's most valued ally.... ;-)
Martin in 63 m akes an interesting observation. I wonder, though, how honest people were in their self-report (I assume self-report) about which blogs they read.
I can completely see a reporter not wanting to admit to reading Riverbend's Baghdad Burning, or Salim Pax. Either because they were consciously afraid that the survey-takers would see those blogs as "not objective" (in comparison to Reynolds!), or because they were unconsciously classing them as "personal" or non-work blog reading, and they couldn't overcome their own mental block to list them.
The US press has responsibilities, unlike the various colonial presses
I think someone needs reminding who colonised who here. I have furniture older than your entire country, pal.
occasional Graun columnist
No. *Daily* Guardian columnist; he writes the lead.
Fuck, does he? Shows how long since I read that rag properly. Big incentive to start again, not.
I read the Gruan most days but I skip the leader. Most of the columnists, too, for that matter.
Ajay, India also had a rich ancient culture.
Hasn't Tony Blair formally acknowledged Britain's colonial status? Or was it all just ceremonial stuff, ass-kissing and so on, with no written agreement.
82: Probably time you get some new stuff, then.
Apo is the sort of person who buys his own furniture.
It's worth the trip over there just to see the 250-year-old British vacuum cleaners. Historians are increasingly coming to believe that the Industrail Revolution began not with steam, or steel, or mass production, or textiles, or trade, or science, but with home appliances.
89. From a country where they still use top loading washing machines, that's priceless.
I think technically Britian is more a satrapy than a colony, no?
The Roman analogy is a Client Kingdom. Does what it likes in internal affairs and trade; does what it's told in foreign relations and war. And with an informal expectation that it'll join the empire at a mutually convenient date.
President Blair doesn't seem to care how we call him. He just comes trotting right up no matter what word we use.
Blair's still President, right? But Diana's no longer Queen, since the Mossad took her out, so now the boy with the cute rosy cheeks is King. (Or Cyninga, as you say in your native language.)
In fact, it wasn't widely reported, but Blair actually did the opposite. Seriously. A couple of years ago, very quietly, we paid off the outstanding WW2 debts.
And if you're at all up on postwar financial history, if anything was a formal acknowledgement of colonial status, the loan agreements were just that.
Emerson, the term is Bretwalda, you're so behind the times.
Once we get the other Scandinavian countries pacified, I think that U.S. would be wise to produce one big administrative unit combining the Kalmar Union and Knut's kingdom.
That would leave out Scotland and Wales, I guess, but I suppose we could attach them somehow, along with the Faroes and Channel Islands.
I'll think you'll find these were World War One debts...
That would leave out Scotland and Wales, I guess
Why? The present Bretwalda is a Pict from the Kingdom of Fib.
OT: Any interest in reviving the Unfogged Reading Group? I've found a book that might merit study and discussion.
100: Penguin or someone actually tried that once, putting a Blue Period nude on the cover of "Beyond Good and Evil". Google Image doesn't bring it up, and I didn't buy it.
It's rather late, and I know we actually covered this a couple months ago, but: In addition to the open threads and brief links, Atrios usually will have an ongoing interest in a topic that is not nec. being covered by any other major blogs. For instance, he was so fucking far ahead of the curve on the credit crunch (Big Shitpile), it's not even funny. Basically, Eschaton readers knew about the now-ongoing financial crisis before WSJ readers did. That strikes me as valuable and substantive.
I will say that a lot of what he does probably has less impact if you don't read daily - a blockquote with 8 words of commentary doesn't express much if you haven't been part of the discussion earlier.
Atrios is the snarkiest of the big Dem blogs, and the least inside-baseball / party strategist / wonk. I don't understand the disdain -- he's the quickest to read, so your value-added per unit of time is pretty good.
he's the quickest to read, so your value-added per unit of time is pretty good.
That's a pretty bizarre metric. Surely it matters what you're reading. "Open thread" turns out to be less meaty than one would think.
Didn't Atrios used to do more actual writing in the past?
re: 100
If it was a serious suggestion, I might be up for that. I've read bits of it in the past, but never the whole thing.
I'll think you'll find these were World War One debts..
No. The parliamentary answer referred specifically to the Second World War.
I've come back around to really liking Atrios.
Atrios is great, even if he hates me for mocking his musical taste. His judgment is more on-target than almost anybody else.
Atrios is the snarkiest of the big Dem blogs, and the least inside-baseball / party strategist / wonk.
It's possible that this is why I have disdain for Atrios. If I'm reading something about politics, I expect to see something about policy or something about political strategy. Duncan Black doesn't do either of those. What he does could be characterized as "snark," but it's an odd sort of snark - it's snippishness detached from any real sense of purpose or content. What's that, you say? Howard Kutz is the "wanker of the day"? Thanks, Atrios - I needed to keep my burgeoning respect for him in check!
If I want a linkblog, there are better liberal linkblogs; if I want to read something funny, there are certainly funnier places to go. Atrios reads like a guy who's kind of bored and posting random one-line items on his lunchbreak, not one of the select few who's actually made a living off his blog.
Note that we effectively defaulted on the WW1 loans in 1934 (but only 'cos the French, Italians, Russians etc welshed on their debts to us).
His judgment is more on-target than almost anybody else.
This is also why I read him.
102: And I know Atrios follows economics closer than other fields (because, hey, he's an economist), but it's not like he was the only blog out there to be ahead of the curve on the credit crisis. Most econblogs knew this was coming for a good long while; Atrios's contribution seems to have been to give it a nickname.
Atrios' style is like nails on a chalkboard to me: the snark whiney, the opinions the sort of thing that debate team members think is clever.
107: Not serious on my part, but others may be up for discussing it.
If so, I may just skim it and look for the dirty parts.
re: 116
I think there are more time-efficient ways of finding dirty parts.
101: I've wondered why Walter Kaufmann never put any of his photographs on the covers of his own books or his translations of the Nietzschster -- the ones that I have seen are pretty stark and evocative.
114: Ah, but I'm bored to tears by econblogs. You'll note that I was comparing him with "other major blogs." Barry Ritholtz is invaluable, but I don't actually read him very often.
I do miss Max Sawickey. Did it ever become clear where he went that he had to vaporize his old site?
111: The other thing to remember - and he makes a point of reminding people about this occasionally - is that he got into the game as a media critic. His first major online writing was for Media Whores Online (speaking of places I miss). Politics qua politics isn't his main interest. But that doesn't make him disdain-worthy.
All that said, I agree with "reads like ... not one of the select few who's actually made a living off his blog." There's definitely path-dependency there, in that someone with better style who was in the right place at the right time could have been Atrios instead, and Atrios would be a second tier blogger at best. But, you know, PCs and VCRs and all that.
105: Yes, though I remember it more Blue-Periodish.
Stras, another thing that we disagree on, another thing you have a bizarrely strong opinion about which you want to talk about at great length, and another personal whim which you angrily want the world to endorse.
Tim, reading "Open Thread" takes less than a second. I don't ever read Atrios's comment threads at all. If you do read them, you do have a problem, which I'd describe as "personal". There's this thing called "skipping".
Atrios just recently said that he remains primarily a media critic.
I'll chalk this up to envy (He's even making MONEY!!1!!) and the usual Democratic disdain for the lower intellectual orders.
Tim, reading "Open Thread" takes less than a second. I don't ever read Atrios's comment threads at all. If you do read them, you do have a problem, which I'd describe as "personal". There's this thing called "skipping".
There's a good argument for efficiency. Is there any blog that fails a meat/minute mark that allows you to throw out the useless?
Stras, another thing that we disagree on, another thing you have a bizarrely strong opinion about which you want to talk about at great length, and another personal whim which you angrily want the world to endorse.
I've made three comments on this subject in this 120-plus comment thread. This apparently makes mine a "bizarrely strong opinion" that I "angrily" talk about "at great length." Whatever, man.
123: he's going by Atrios post-length standards.
