Did my first seder last night -- the theology of it wasn't entirely clear, on account of the two-year-old at the table.

Also, two of the people at the table were on medication that precluded drinking any wine, which made the both of them pretty grumpy.

Oh it's a must to hang with the sephardim during passover. You can have beans and rice!

Oh, the only thing sephardic about this was the charoset recipe. But it was really good. The 'youngest' thing is a little hard to negotiate when there are a lot of little kids -- figuring out who the youngest who can read straight is not trivial.

Just look for the youngest soul.

I haven't been to any seders this year or, indeed, last or the year before.

But then I also had bacon yesterday and will have a tart today, so my problems are numerous.

Ben had better mind the safety of his first born.

God will smite your people for this, Ben. Or maybe he'll just smite everyone in California. The passover story itself shows that God doesn't worry too much about collateral damage.

I have some lamb bones, one with the shank portion still attached, in the freezer, so my household will be spared.

Apricots and pine nuts sounds so good. I think it is time to send one of the kids to the local kosher market to buy goodies.

I think it's probably a good thing my family's Ashkenazic, 'cause I hate hate hate apricots.

The youngest person at our seder was my 20-year-old cousin... who's been the youngest at our seders for at least the last 10 years. Out of kindness, we didn't make her do the Four Questions. (Also, she made most of the food. It never pays to piss off the cook.)

I'll bet Richard Quest had an entertaining response to the "Why is this night not like all other nights?" question.

I'm going to my first one this afternoon!

apricots and pine nuts, mmm

Is that in lieu of the blood of Christian children, or in addition to it?

Addition, surely. For the flavor.

I went to a seder hosted by a friend in high school. It was scandalous; there was wine! We were allowed to drink it! With parents around!

Charoset is just awful. I'm not the least bit convinced that apricots and pine nuts would improve it.

That said, I miss regular invites to Seder - I kind of aged out of the honorary family member where I used to go, and none of my Jewish peers are observant. My SIL persists in living far away.

I should just make my own brisket.

Is that in lieu of the blood of Christian children, or in addition to it?

Hey now. Only Red Sea pedestrians are allowed to make blood libel and deicide jokes.

Charoset is just awful.

What? It's apples, cinammon, nuts, and wine. Other than the wine, that's basically apple pie filling. Do you hate apple pie too? Are you some kind of commie?

Only Red Sea pedestrians are allowed to make blood libel and deicide jokes.

What? It's not enough that you control the media, the banks, and the international drug trade? Now you want to lay claim to power over permissible jokes, too?

Now, I'll grant you that your people have a pretty good track record on matters pertaining to comedy, so I'm not saying they're not not qualified or anything.

19: Dude, we killed God. Do you really wanna fuck with us?

20: Good point.

I, for one, welcome our new Semitic overlords.

I, for one, welcome our new Semitic overlords.

First time anybody's said that in, what, 2500 years? (Comments about the Occupied Territories are considered null and void for the purposes of this joke.)

We used to have a seder every year at the very liberal UCC church in which I grew up. But then people sort of fell away from it for some reason. Which was a drag, because I thought it was one of the highlights of the religious calendar. We mostly had chicken rather than lamb though, but all the other foods were prepared pretty traditionally (in the Ashkenazic tradition) from what I remember. Alas, all of my current friends who are Jews are totally secular and non-observant.

Apropos of little, Dale Pendell avers that the wine of the ancient Mediterranean was not the "grape juice plus" we know today, but rather a heady concoction of grape liquor and a whole bunch of other herbs and spices, some of which had their own psychoactive properties. Probably gave all of the wine rituals that little extra kick to let you really experience the divine.

20: Dude, you outsourced the killing of God.

Hey, we had a seder at my UCC church, too! Only once though. When we had a liberal interim pastor. Who was hated by all the oldsters. Ours was not one of those liberal UCC congregations.

The seder was crazy exotic for the likes of us midwesterners, though.

Dude, you outsourced the killing of God.

Well, sure. My people are capital, not labor.

I don't think I've ever been to a passover seder. The Jewish Law Students' Assoc. is hosting one on Tues. though, so maybe I should go to that to hear the story of liberation.

My boyfriend is off in the town next door with his parents, sedering. We're not at the point where we meet the 'rents yet, so I'm cool staying back and eating pork chops and mashed potatoes.

Mmm psyched to go to a Seder tonight.

We used to have a seder every year at the very liberal UCC church in which I grew up. But then people sort of fell away from it for some reason

Umm wtf?

Knecht didn't even get the blood libel right. You need it for making matzoh, not haroset.

Umm wtf?

You didn't know we could just appropriate whatever rituals we want? It's called multiculturalism.

The only seder I've ever attended was with a bunch of Reedies and used a feminist Haggadah. Not representative of mainstream Jewish experience, I'm guessing. Also, the food was lousy in that typical college-student way.

When I was a kid I remember going to a Seder at the local Episcopal church I attended. It was hosted by a local rabbi, who explained the meaning of the holiday to us goyim. I think we got to drink a little wine as part of the deal, too.

In sixth grade our CCD classes at church focused on the old testament, and I recall learning about the Seder, but I don't think we actually did the meal, although I also seem to recall the teacher bringing in food to taste, and a later field trip to a synagogue.

There are packets and handouts. This is my kind of a holiday.

Knecht didn't even get the blood libel right. You need it for making matzoh, not haroset.

I understood that there's generally a bit left over from making the matzoh, and that to let it go to waste is like throwing away money.

We used to have a seder every year at the very liberal UCC church in which I grew up.

My mother started did this once for her middle-of-the-road Presbyterian church. I'm not sure how many guests she got to turn out for it. Beyond the cultural misappropriation, which always rubbed me the wrong way, I suspect it was about as authentic as the Busch Gardens version of Europe. OTOH, there sure as shit wasn't anyone in attendance who could would have known any better, so no harm done.

Hmm... I never knew all the rituals that went with the Passover dinner. Roasted lamb and matzo certainly sounds tasty, but my jewish friends are more like my current roomie who had bacon with our pancake breakfast.

Meanwhile, the Pope celebrates Mass today at the headquarters of the Antichrist. Judaism's looking pretty good this weekend.

29: Umm wtf?

See ben, I wouldn't expect you young and modern folx to understand. This all happened in the early-to-mid 1980s, a simpler time in many ways: There was a Republican imbecile in the White House, who'd illegally involved us in a couple of foreign low-intensity conflicts, there was a huge financial scandal unfolding, and yet all you read about in the newspapers or saw on TV was celebrity gossip or the latest consumer electronics fad.

30: You didn't know we could just appropriate whatever rituals we want?

rob, it's not "appropriation": it's sharing. We were sharing the seder tradition with the Jews. You don't have anything against sharing, do you?

38: You mean like how we shared America with the Native Americans?

I am a very disputatious sedergoer.

Last night I came upon another big problem with the Haggadah: it's the only liberation story that involves leaving one place and going to another. (The Underground Railroad comes close, but the true end of liberation was the end of slavery, not just the departure of the South.)

As such, although we talk about it in terms of "none of us are* free when anyone in chains", this weird geographic element kind of befuddles its application to modern struggles, including the most obvious one.

*Solomon Burke improved on the grammatical formulation.

39: Precisely!

Funnily enough, I'm pretty sure it was the political evolution of one or two people in the church that pushed us into, and then out of, the Seder celebration. There was a little knot of ex-student radicals and fellow travelers who'd re-found Jesus (but not in a really squick, charismatic way) in the 1970s, who were all about learning Hebrew in order to better understand Jesus (who, of course, probably mostly spoke Aramaic, but whatever) and I think they were the main pro-Seder force. Then as the 1980s wore on, and folx started thinking more about these issues of cultural appropriation (not to mention the Intifada) and it became less invigorating to people. I was always a teeny bit bothered by it, even before I got radicalized, not the least because my Methodist neighbor (who's now a Communist butcher) insisted on referring to it as a "Mock Seder," which seemed pretty questionable to me at the time.

a Communist butcher

Huh? Is that like a kosher butcher?

Dude, we killed God.

Can't keep a good Son of Man down, though.

As for UCC seders, I too attended one in my callow youth. It was hilarious, but in good faith, pun not intended.

No, a butcher of Communists.

Is that the subjective or objective genitive?

Can't keep a good Son of Man down, though.

Which reminds me... Last night my cousin was telling us about a conversation she'd had with a woman in line at the supermarket the week before Easter. Apparently the woman was making breadballs with spices and raisins in them, and a marshmallow at the center. Wen you bake the bread the marshmallow disappears but the hole where it had been remains, thus the breadball represents the tomb in which Jesus was buried.

I'm never listening to anyone complain about *my* religion's wacky folk rituals ever again.

There was a special on Manischewitz brand mini-marshmallows at the Giant Eagle last night. You guys must be using them for something or other this weekend.

The butchering and the Communism are intimately connected, in that I'm 99% sure he got involved in doing a lot of Party work, and through those connections got into the butcher's union (I have no idea which one).

Who knows, perhaps some of you decadent coastal elites have bought meat butchered by him and not even realized that it was Red meat you were eating!

48: perhaps some of you decadent coastal elites have bought meat butchered by him

I bet Obama has bought meat butchered by him, it would be just like him. (And then some a-hole on the Right will recycle the story as real Red meat.)

Vegetarianism = fascism; butchering = communism...this is all starting to make sense.

Social democrats eat a balanced diet? Anarchists are breatharians?

These are good hagadot.

Having gone out for brunch with a friend earlier today who entreated me to go for it, to order from the belly, not the brain: order some canadian bacon! Turkey bacon, no, gross (he said), at least get regular bacon! Your cholesterol is probably so low you probably need some (he said) ... weird.

As I listened to myself talking aloud about how the feta cheese would probably be of really salty quality, and the spinach would probably not be fresh, but I kind of wanted some meat, but holy shit, look how expensive the juice is! And I expect they pre-butter the toast, and I don't know why they do that.

I have turned into a nutritional freak. My other friend said, look: we can go pick some kale at the farm later, and play dodgeball. Relieved laughter all.

These are alternately amusing and scary. And the author apparently still hasn't found a man, more than 15 years on.

46: That's a new one on me, although growing up, I knew some people who refused to eat chocolate bunnies, etc. because they were pagan symbols of Easter. Henceforth in my reasonably observant Christian household, Easter candy was known as "pagan symbols" -- and still eaten.

I was not aware of "tomb cake", but there is apparently this tradition. That beats the double-bank-shot symbolism of bunnies and Peeps for sure. Do you get a toy Roman soldier to go along with it?

Here is the recipe for apple matzoh kugel that I am making tonight.

34: I was going to find you a Powerpoint Haggadah, but everything that shows up when I google is either evangelical Christian or just weird, in a non-Jewish way.

Some notes on Passover -- although Becks has probably already left:

1. The Passover culinary challenge is often interpreted as "replace all my carbs with matzoh-based substitutes". A strangely underrated alternative is to make lots of fruits, vegetables, and (if you're that type) meats. For example: instead of making a constipating matzoh meal cake for a seder last night, my fiancee prepared pears braised in wine. Huh!

2. The whole point about relaying all the weird shit that the Rabbis talk about is not because its inherent interpretative value, but to encourage you to ask questions about the value of reciting the story. You have to gauge your host's tolerance for, say, wondering aloud if "next year in Jerusalem" is complicated by the Palestinian question, but you should always ask what stuff means, especially if it's your first time.

3. If you're going to seder with the Saiselgys, pay a visit to Grampa while all the other kids are looking for the afikoman. Trust me on this one.

Bollocks. Better link.

Growing up, I had a friend whose family always gave a chocolate Easter bunny as their reward for finding the afikomen. I like that tradition.

I've never been to a Seder in my surprisingly Catholic life.

But I made some porridge with dried fruit and nuts in it. I'm going to say that's close enough to pinenuts and apricots to save PK from the wrath of god, even *though* it's primarily rice. (Which I am given to understand is Not Allowed.)

to save PK from the wrath of god

In Judaism it's spelled "G-d".

In Judaism it's spelled "G-d".

I've always wondered, why elide the o in English? God is not God's name. Hmm, in Hebrew the vowels can't be elided, so is something similar done such as Y----H?

I thought that was in fundieism. In any case, I generally can't be bothered to capitalize it, so I'm certainly not going to stretch for the hyphen.

Isn't Yahweh YWH for precisely that reason, so that you're not actually uttering the name that can't be uttered? Hashem is not pleased, y'all.

For example: instead of making a constipating matzoh meal cake for a seder last night, my fiancee prepared pears braised in wine. Huh!

She could also have prepared a non-constipating almond cake lifted up by egg whites. Y'know.

There's no such thing as "fundieism". And no, it's in Judaism.

There's no such thing as "fundieism".

At least, it's no fun.

Isn't Yahweh YWH for precisely that reason

But Hebrew doesn't have vowels so that is the "spelling" of the name. Right? Seems dangerous to me.

True. It's a mystery, and that's why so is mankind.

She could also have prepared a non-constipating almond cake lifted up by egg whites. Y'know.

I nominate this for "comment that sounds most like it comes from a bitchy old queen."

In Hebrew leaving the vowels out is standard. So YHWH is indeed the name that must not be used. The Tetragrammaton.

But heebie spelling it "YWH", like "G-d", is a way of leaving part out so that it doesn't actually get said.

But only when I do it. When you do it, He gets mad.

Nameless in 71 seems to have it right.

Wiki says that G_d isn't necessary but traditional. There's also a longer piece on the name itself. Interesting change from blaspheme to pronounce.

I thought G-d was just trying to google-proof itself.

Fear of saying God's complete name is one of the few things that has stuck with me from Hebrew school.

God Jacob Jingle Heimer Schmidt. There, I said it, Wrongshore. You can too.

Adonai, but I been told
Jerusalem is paved with gold

Turns out it was really glass
Jehovah fell and broke his a--

Sound off!
1,2
Sound off!
3,4
1,2,3,4 .. Sound off!

I laughed at the cadence; then I looked over my shoulder in fear.

For the record:

Other than the wine, that's basically apple pie filling. Do you hate apple pie too?

I fucking despise apple pie with nuts in it. I will skip breakfast or dessert (with a couple exceptions) if it includes nuts. Nuts in Asian entrees are often OK.

60: As I am wont to repeat -- Rice: totally kosher for Passover if you're sephardic.

Seder report: Sephardic Haroset, made in this case with dates, is indeed way, way better than the Ashkenazi version. Also, Sephardic jews have some hi-larious Passover songs they can sing in Aramaic. Sephardim all the way!

You could arrange for one guest to bring Ashkenazi charoset, and another guest to bring Sephardic. Then you could all swap with each other until everyone has the kind he or she likes.

However, this approach might make you guilty of in-seder trading.

We ran out of matzoh in the middle of the seder and had to run out to the Seven-Unleavened.

It's so true that Sephardim are cooler than us in almost every way. This year's Charoset was not my best ever, but! I did make my own gefilte fish.

Sephardim are cooler than us in almost every way

Enumerate the exceptions, mrh! I for one am keen to know!

It occured to me this weekend as I was regretting making the blood libel joke above that almost all the antisemitic tropes I know* I first encountered in adulthood. Most of them I heard about from my college roommate, who was an observant Yeshiva graduate. By way of contrast, another Jewish classmate was a HS exchange student in provincial France, and her little "brother" from the host family once ran his fingers all over her scalp and asked perplexedly where her horns were.

My theory is that the endurance of anti-Semitism in Europe is at least in part a function of the greater persistence of cultural heritage more generally. In the U.S., culture itself is more ephemeral; our common culture more variegrated, and the vehicles for intergenerational transmission weaker. A serendipitous byproduct of Americans' neglectful ignorance of history and tradition is that we end up discarding a lot of what is distasteful in that tradition. This gives me hope that we might yet outgrow the legacy of racism.

* I was aware of the stereotypes of Jews as miserly and JAP's as greedy and sexually frigid. For this I credit Blanche Knott's Truly Tasteless Jokes, which circulated clandestinely in my church camp in 9th grade.

I heard some Sephardic folksongs from Turkey once, sung in Ladino (Judeo-Spanish). They were mourning their exile from Spain. I guess Jews just like to mourn their exile from places.

I fucking despise apple pie with nuts in it.

American Pie must have produced quite a reaction in you.

85: There's quite a number of stereotypes that I only encountered in the wild in adulthood (as opposed to on television, which seems to be stuck about 30 years in the past.)

We had date charoset, hummus, baba ganoush, & chicken w/ preserved lemons as well as the traditional gefilte fish & matzoh balls; this is not because of sephardic heritage but because the Moroccan woman who takes care of the husband's grandfather is a great cook & agreed to prepare the seder.

I've read that Sephardic Jews also regard chicken as pareve, as there is not really any chance that you are going to boil a chicken in its mother's milk.

Enumerate the exceptions, mrh!

Uh... I can't think of a specific example at the moment, but I'm sure Eastern Europeans must have something to offer.

I've read that Sephardic Jews also regard chicken as pareve, as there is not really any chance that you are going to boil a chicken in its mother's milk.

Wow, how ... sensible.

It's so true that Sephardim are cooler than us in almost every way.

Exoticizing the other? Tsk.

I heard some Sephardic folksongs from Turkey once, sung in Ladino (Judeo-Spanish).

On this recording, by any chance? It's quite good; I'll have to put a couple of tracks on my still-gestating Unfogged mix.

For this I credit Blanche Knott's Truly Tasteless Jokes, which circulated clandestinely in my church camp in 9th grade.

I remember that book. I think I was in 6th grade when I read it; I have no idea who I knew who was irresponsible enough to give it to me.

I got some of those stereotypes from Isaac Asimov's joke book. However, Portnoy's Complaint had changed the conventional wisdom by the time I was a kid, such that Jewesses had been transferred from the frigid list to the lusty list. Thus leaving WASPs and Scandinavians as the only groups stereotyped as frigid.

93: KBOO long ago.

90: but I'm sure Eastern Europeans must have something to offer.

Other than Tay-Sachs.

95: What's the difference between poverty and a Jewish wife?

Oh, sure, they're probably frigid after they're married. That's consistent through all cultures.

However, Portnoy's Complaint had changed the conventional wisdom by the time I was a kid, such that Jewesses had been transferred from the frigid list to the lusty list.

This isn't right, is it? Portnoy never has any Jewish girlfriends, does he?