should be warned that I will throw heavy anthologies cumbersome analogies at them
Fixed that for you.
California State University officials say they were simply following the law and did not discriminate against Gonaver because all employees are required to sign the oath.
This seems relevant, though.
This seems relevant, though.
In that it's a system-wide problem rather than one excessively nationalistic administrator, sure, but that's not particularly encouraging.
I thought this was definitively settled by the Supreme Court 40 years ago. Bizzaro. As much as I like to see harmless pacifist sects persecuted, this seems over the line.
3: It seems like a state law problem that impacts academic freedom, and which the professors manfully haven't addressed, but not an issue of the UC system's understanding of academic freedom.
I don't know if this will bring bad press to Fullerton. Loyalty oaths are popular in the US. We make little kids and public officials recite the Pledge of Allegiance all the time, and honestly, giving your allegiance to a flag is far more offensive to me than pledging to defend the constitution.
The effect of stories like this is the increase the sense that there are dangerous traitors in our midst, and all efforts are justified in routing them out, no matter what their constitutional status. "Silence her! she will not pledge to protect the right of all to speak freely!"
"Silence her! she will not pledge to protect the right of all to speak freely!"
This is one of the many bizarre and impressive disconnects between `American ideals ' and actual practice.
The loyalty oath was actually a compromise. The original proposal would have required tenure-track faculty to raise a German shepherd pup for several months, then strangle it in front of the provost.
I like that Gonaver is a "Quaker from Pennsylvania." The real kind of Quaker, so we know she's not faking.
Also, I'm not favorably disposed towards her, given the associated picture. I wonder if there's more to the story.
2: No, they're not simply following the law. As I understand it, a prior court challenge established that people could amend the oath with their own statement and still satisfy the requirements of the law. Cal State (or maybe just Fullerton?) is requiring more than the law requires.
I can't imagine this survives a court challenge.
The American Studies department has no need for someone with such an inaccurate view of what life in America ought to constitute.
given the associated picture
Say more...
make little kids and public officials recite the Pledge of Allegiance all the time
Little kids I see the problem. Public officials not so much. But then I'm kind of on board with the whole nationalism project. You should obviously give people religious principled objections. But if the concept of pledging allegiance and God Bless America in the 7th inning seems fine by me. If you don't like it, as Homer Simpson says, move to Russia.
We make little kids and public officials recite the Pledge of Allegiance all the time, and honestly, giving your allegiance to a flag is far more offensive to me than pledging to defend the constitution.
Ah, reminds me of the time in a first amendment class when a big chunk of the class started shouting in opposition as I presented a paper I wrote arguing that school-sponsored recitation of the pledge is a coercive act. Good times.
America in the 7th inning seems fine by me. If you don't like it, as Homer Simpson says, move to Russia.
It's amazing how much mileage an argument this stupid gets.
13: God Bless America is (a) a terrible song, (b) expresses a religious sentiment I find meaningless and, insofar as it isn't meaningless, offensive. It's also not a goddamned tradition. Neither is "Under God" in the pledge of allegiance, for that matter. Hell with both of 'em.
14: that's hilarious.
If you don't like it ... move to Russia.
In United States, Russia move to you !!
But if the concept of pledging allegiance and God Bless America in the 7th inning seems fine by me. If you don't like it, as Homer Simpson says, move to Russia.
This knife-edge-of-irony stuff is trolling of the highest order.
I applied for a Hertz fellowship in grad school which has this little quirk. Sadly it wasn't an issue since I didn't get the fellowship- I knew how to explain the workings of NMR but at the time I didn't know the Monty Hall problem and got it wrong.
13: Submissive posture, framed by shadow bars. It's not like the she fell and photographer just snapped that picture. She had to participate. WTF? How much use was she going to be in protecting our freedoms, anyway?
Obviously, she shouldn't have to sign the damn oath, and I hope she gets the job. It would be nice if the professors pushed the state to remove the oath requirement, though.
18: Petey really ought to take notes.
It's amazing how much mileage an argument this stupid gets.
I'm totally with it. The mistake is to surrender it--as liberals/Dems have--to the other side.
8: I was just talking about the puppy story with a friend of mine. I've encountered that story several times, but have found nothing in the relevant literature to support it.
22: I often tell my Blue State Republican brother that if he thinks conservatism is so great, he ought to move to Mississippi.
I had to sign one of these at Sunny State, despite not being a US citizen. I asked my dept manager about it and she said the easiest thing to do was to sign and hope my home country never invaded America.
20: y'know, having had my picture taken by photographers who thought they were being arty, it's often not easy to figure out if it's a good idea or they're playing you somehow.
Submissive posture, framed by shadow bars.
Submissive to the Lord, my friend - don't you know a subliminal cross when you see it?
I think in CA these oaths have their origins in areagan's efforts to fire or prevent the hiring of Angela Davis and Herbert Marcuse in the 60s.
it's often not easy to figure out if it's a good idea or they're playing you somehow.
Ditto.
23: You might start here, Flip.
hope my home country never invaded America.
That would be awesome. I could be put in an internment camp, along with countless millions of other Irish-Americans!
If you don't like it, as Homer Simpson says, move to Russia.
Barney Gumble says "Go back to Russia," re Lisa's attempt to serve gazpacho ("It's tomato soup, served ice cold!) at a B.B.B.Q in one episode, but I don't recall Homer saying that. Google informs me that Homer expresses that sentiment in Treehouse of Horror II, but doesn't provide any context. Anyone remember?
(Whatever the appropriate threadjack sign is here)
So I find myself with an unexpected three hours in the MSP airport. Recommendations?
(Play on)
It's kind of depressing that all conservatives had to do to appropriate The Simpsons was be too stupid to get the jokes.
34 to 30 obvs. Christ this talk is boring.
Ditto to Sifu's 16.1.
baa, if it's not appropriate to coerce little kids, why is it appropriate to coerce adults? And don't tell me we don't coerce adults. To most Americans, refusing to say the pledge is probably worse than being a queer Muslim vegetarian shouting "fire!" in a crowded theater. No one should have to withstand that kind of pressure over something that is both trivial and a profound matter of principle.
Recommendations?
I recommend that you explain, in as vague terms as you feel neccessary, why your presence in and/or future absence from Minneapolis-St. Paul could possibly require more anonymity than however you usually post.
I would have thought that this had been settled a long time ago. Maybe it was in Albion's Seed or one of Daniel Boorstin's book where I read that Quakers won't swear any kind of oath, but that a work-around had been set up.
32: Get your shoes shined so they'll look better under the stall wall?
stick your foot under an adjoining toilet stall of course.
pwnd.
This talk continues boring, which given the topic should be impossible.
Philip Dick's papers are at Cal Fullerton. This is just the sort of thing he'd have expected of the government, of course, but he'd have shit an absolute brick over it, too. All in all, I'd say that Gonaver will be lucky not to wake up and discover that she's only a robot built to serve Arnold Schwarzenegger.
Wait, did John Yoo sign this oath for his appointment at Berkeley? If so, isn't his attack on the US Constitution grounds for firing?
Google informs me that Homer expresses that sentiment in Treehouse of Horror II, but doesn't provide any context. Anyone remember?
I think it's in the Halloween episode, when a newscaster is making some joke about "The scariest day of the year is coming up...heh, heh, Election Day!" and Homer says "Hey, if you don't like it, go to Russia."
There's also the one where he yells "Go back to Massachusetts!" at Sideshow Bob when the latter proposes banning television.
Geez, I have seen these episodes way, way too many times. I put them on to go to sleep by, during college. (I guess that was a waste of electricity...but it was hard to get to sleep sometimes)
32: Also, isn't the answer to spare time in an airport always to drink?
Also, isn't the answer to spare time in an airport always to drink?
Yeah, but that's the answer to most problems.
32: For shame, Aaron Burr. A threadjack is a total misuse of the "pause/play" symbols, which imply that an off-topic comment has been inserted into the flow of conversation but the preexisting conversational threads flow on. An explicit attempt at a threadjack, on the other hand, is essentially a pause without a play on the other side: one stream has ended and another has begun.
Quaker from Pennsylvania
Relevant, insofar as she's from a state with a longstanding tradition of allowing Quakers to affirm (rather than swear) on oaths from everything from jury duty to notarized documents. I don't know a thing about this woman or her situation, but she may have thought CA had provisions similar to PA's.
37: in retrospect, baa was trolling insincerely but amusingly, and la la la I don't care la la la driving my car making this comment la la la bicycles are stupid la la la hooray for Joe Francis doot dee doo can't hear you (open manhole)
36: they've taken over the rest of the town, man, you wouldn't believe it. Dirty, potato eatin' hordes of the bl....
Oh. Oh, I am sorry.
MSP: Get lunch (or whatever meal is appropriate) at the French Meadow Cafe in Concourse F. It's pretty good, and not just "for airport food".
Tim is right though. Someone who comes out in favor of loyalty oaths, and you should explain to them gently and patronizingly that they completely failed to understand what it means to be an American, but you were sure there were many country that would be happy to have them.
Minneapolis: Downtown is 20 minutes by light rail from the airport for a couple bucks, but I don't know what's downtown.
26: We want to see adorable artsy pictures of our Sifu.
I often tell my Blue State Republican brother that if he thinks conservatism is so great, he ought to move to Mississippi.
Exactly. "Don't like it, GTFO" is surprisingly effective as rhetoric. Which is sort of the point.
48: to stand athwart the thread, yelling "listen to meeeee!"
Wait, did John Yoo sign this oath for his appointment at Berkeley? If so, isn't his attack on the US Constitution grounds for firing?
You can only attack the Constitution if you're a commie, a hippie or a peacenik, Alex.
Look, I just watched all ten hours of Carrier and so I have the legal and moral authority to tell SKraab to stand for the damn flag. Ingrates. I have relatives who served, you know. How would this make them feel?
Submissive posture, framed by shadow bars.
Somewhat irksome, I grant. But when in doubt blame the photographer.
knife-edge-of-irony stuff is trolling of the highest order
I live to please.
I think it's in the Halloween episode, when a newscaster is making some joke about "The scariest day of the year is coming up...heh, heh, Election Day!" and Homer says "Hey, if you don't like it, go to Russia."
Bingo! Also, in the vegetarian episode "Go back to Russia" is Barney's response to being offered gazspacho.
just watched all ten hours of Carrier
Pretty awesome, no. But (shockingly) almost on the edge of a Navy commercial at times...
baa was trolling insincerely but amusingly
Yes! I feel understood. I hoped it was obvious enough so as to not really count as trolling...
I think it's more his response to the very concept of gazpacho, after Lisa explains what it is.
having had my picture taken by photographers who thought they were being arty, it's often not easy to figure out if it's a good idea or they're playing you somehow.
Mapplethorpe, right?
It's like you didn't even read my comment. Since if you did, you'd know how to spell gazpacho.
I lied: I missed hours 7 & 8. Baa, do you want to enlist together? We could be like that wisecracking gay couple.
the concept of pledging allegiance and God Bless America in the 7th inning seems fine by me
I'd prefer that the president say, John Houseman-like, "We get respect the old-fashioned way. We earn it."
64: Is one of you tall, thin and erudite, and the other short, dumpy and foul-mouthed? Are one, but not both, of you gay?
It's harder and harder to make a sitcom these days. Everything has to be right for it to work.
57: My dad, former Lt. J.G. on the carrier Tarawa is ok with it, thanks.
66: From what Hollywood has told me, the only people in that picture who are actually hackers are the guy with scary facial hair and sunglasses, the fat guy with the Mighty Mouse shirt and sunglasses, and the sexy yet androgynous girl with dyed hair.
Does Cal State-Fullerton not have any instructors who are not U.S. citizens? Are citizens of foreign countries really required to declare allegiance to the U.S. and California constitutions?
60: Don't stop now. We're trying to make this more interesting for Goneril!
Teachers in NY have to sign a form promising to uphold the state and federal constitution. I signed it. We all had to and we're all notorious radicals in my funky school.
I uphold you, Constitution! Hooray!
Also, Sifu, if there is anyjustice in the worldone paying attention at the helm, you've just provided the picture for the next UnfoggedCon.
64: Is one of you tall, thin and erudite, and the other short, dumpy and foul-mouthed?
You know, this is getting pretty close to the mark. Make the tall one painfully handsome as well as virtuous, and you've got it.
66: Tell me you're the dyed-blond chick, Tweety. Otherwise I don't want to know.
72: That, and I'm trying to procrastinate the afternoon away, and the gruel is a bit thin here today.
It's like you didn't even read my comment
Totally my bad, washer! That's a top shelf episode.
The other guy with scary facial hair is probably a "gearhead", given the flame decals on his jacket. The kid on the left with the knit cap is a skater. The guy at the top right is the romantic lead who is deceptively brilliant and therefore can translate between the hackers and the normal actor-looking people.
Most of the others are either nerds or geeks but not actually hackers. Hackers have to be totally awesome.
I don't know what to make of the guy in the middle with his hand on his face. Were "New Romantics" still around at that time?
71: yes, I had to sign, even as a non citizen.
28
"I think in CA these oaths have their origins in areagan's efforts to fire or prevent the hiring of Angela Davis and Herbert Marcuse in the 60s."
It is amazing the things Reagan gets credit for. Very farsighted of him to to get this added to the California Constitution in 1952.
"With the exception of Article VII, para. 1.a, Article XIV, para. 3.c, and Article XVII, paras. 4-6, I hereby swear to uphold and protect the Constitution of the State of California."
this is getting pretty close to the mark.
Ouch!
37: I could actually get behind making some kind of oath required for being a public official, just like a private employee might require you to certify that you've read the employee handbook or watched an orientation video. An oath to the constitution would be useless if no one in the upper levels of government would be interested in enforcing it, like today, but it's possible to imagine legitimate purposes. Obviously, that doesn't apply at all to the bitch in the story in your link, no offense intended to Dr. B.
70 and 79, with their combination of hilarious accuracy and hilarious inaccuracy -- but almost nothing in between -- are totally cracking me up.
Baa, we've discussed your potty mouth here before. You know how it violates community standards.
66: For all the guys in that picture, the chick looks unsatisfied.
81: hence my lack of certainty in the original comment.
For all the guys in that picture, the chick looks unsatisfied.
please, JE. They're programmers.
yes, I had to sign, even as a non citizen
That is insane.
91: It's ok, fingers were crossed.
y'know, having had my picture taken by photographers who thought they were being arty, it's often not easy to figure out if it's a good idea or they're playing you somehow.
Is that your excuse for the moustache pic?
"What does a girl have to do around here to get laid?"
94: Well, she does appear to be laid across the others. But then again, so is Sifu there at the top of the sofa.
"I'm willing to trade my body for sex, but these guys want something else and I don't know what it is".
The one who told you she wished you nothing but bad luck. I'm answering for ardent because I was temporarily confused by it too.
Sorry for the anonymity, it was left in the iPhone and I forgot to change it.
I've relocated to the French Meadow Bakery, which is really quite good. If any of you are making a connection, I'm the chap in the knickers and three-cornered hat, tucking into a turkey & feta quesadilla and organic lager.
Ah. I was too lazy to look back and see that 37 was mine, so I thought Cyrus was talking about the professor. That'll teach me.
The French Meadow Cafe/Bar is definitely the way to go in MSP. Don't bother going to the other French Meadow--make sure you go to the one with a bar. The potato wedges come with this awesome feta(?) dip, and they've got some outstanding beers on tap.
Crossposted, but there you go. Now I want a ber and potato wedges.
54
Exactly. "Don't like it, GTFO" is surprisingly effective as rhetoric. Which is sort of the point.
Effective, as retorts go, but I don't think it could ever serve the left as well as the right because it's inherently conservative.
I'm sure this'll come as a shock, but there's no way I'd sign an oath to "protect and defend the Constitution," especially if it mentioned anything about "enemies foreign and domestic." That shit's fucked up. And so, of course, is the fucking Constitution, a centuries-old and outdated document establishing as rigged a system as there's ever been in this country and zealously guarded by the cult of necrophiliac ancestor worship at the heart of our judicial system.
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slow friday. At this rate, I may have to resort to doing work
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Fontana is back! Except for that brief appearance you made as "Analytic Philosopher", we really missed you!
Pretty awesome, no. But (shockingly) almost on the edge of a Navy commercial at times...
I haven't watched the last two episodes, but my god the first couple depressed the hell out of me. It's not like the majority of those kids are gonna end up using their G.I. Bill benefits. And the girl who went in because she wanted to be a chef? Oy.
Effective, as retorts go, but I don't think it could ever serve the left as well as the right because it's inherently conservative.
I don't know how "left," "right," or "conservative," are being define there, but I think that's wrong.
And so, of course, is the fucking Constitution, a centuries-old and outdated document establishing as rigged a system as there's ever been in this country and zealously guarded by the cult of necrophiliac ancestor worship at the heart of our judicial system.
Yeah, fuck that whole "14th Amendment" bullshit!
The feta dip is awesome.
And I have a soft spot in my heart for the cheesy "Northern Lights Bar & Grill" here - met a girl there about a year ago that I ended up dating for a while.
And the girl who went in because she wanted to be a chef? Oy.
See, this is why the CIA needs recruitment booths.
Yeah, fuck that whole "14th Amendment" bullshit!
Yeah, because the only thing in the United States Constitution is the Fourteenth Amendment.
OT: Did people see this? Where's Petey? Has he skulked back to his lair beneath the bridge?
Sorry, not only OT but also the wrong thread. Nap time.
110
I don't know how "left," "right," or "conservative," are being define there, but I think that's wrong.
I'm using it in the political sense somewhat, but more in the generic sense of "resistant to change." "If you don't like it, as Homer Simpson says, move to Russia" -- what does it mean, exactly? Instead of trying to fix the supposed injustice or whatever the subject is, just leave. People should assimilate or emigrate. That isn't a progressive or liberal way of thinking, again speaking in both the generic and political senses of the terms.
118: But Clinton's such a great Democrat... I needed to share.
I fear I am losing my mind. I've been poking around line to find the text of whatever this oath is that I remember signing and I can find nothing at all. I don't teach at a public institution either, so this would be a pretty serious state law. I remember the form being passed around at an orientation and I remember everyone going uh . . . and then "fuck it." I can't really have hallucinated this, can I?
1. My hat is infinitely awesomer than a sorting hat. Don't make me post another picture.
2. I don't think this is about Quakers not wanting to swear oaths; the California loyalty oath allows you to "affirm."
3. I agree with Tim, not the best picture on balance.
4. I signed the oath without qualm or hesitation. I previously signed, also without qualm or hesitation, the Nevada one, referenced here, which dated from the state's founding during the Civil War. I did not think about the argument that appears below in point 8.
5. I think really to object to the oath as a pacifist, you have to go beyond being a pacifist to being an absolutist conscientious objector (I have a doctoral student working on this subject now)--i.e., historically many pacifists were able to "support and defend" by doing non-combatant work in wartime; only absolutists refused even to, say, rake government lawns.
6. Partly for the reason in 5 I don't think its true that "The way it's laid out, a noncitizen member of Al Qaeda could work for the university, but not a citizen Quaker." I say "partly" because I think it's silly to suggest an Al Qaeda supporter could sign this oath without mental reservation etc.
7. SCotUS seems to have upheld such oaths.
8. For the AAUP, Fritz Machlup wrote,
Even the least dangerous of oaths required of academic teachers, the oath to support--though not necessarily to believe in--the constitution, is on principle inconsistent with real freedom of teaching, especially because the meaning of "supporting" is not unambiguous.... These oaths to support the Constitution can become acutely dangerous to academic freedom when they are construed as giving to "the governing boards of executives of colleges and universities a quasi-legal ground for dismissing any teacher whose political opinions, affiliations, or activities are regarded by those officials as inconsistent with 'support for the Constitution'--in any sense which they may put upon this equivocal expression."
I'm using it in the political sense somewhat, but more in the generic sense of "resistant to change."
Let me recast "resistant to change" as "respectful of tradition." I think our points of disagreement are likely to be: (a) how many traditions there are in the US, and (b) to what extent people can do anything but reflect mixtures of different traditions.
Instead of trying to fix the supposed injustice or whatever the subject is
I would say that there's a pretty proud tradition of trying to fix injustice in the US.
what does it mean, exactly
I don't know that that it's intended to mean anything. It's meant to shut the other side up, which it often does quite effectively. The trick is to define your own beliefs as the relevant tradition.
People should assimilate or emigrate.
I'm not sure how different a statement it is than "Pick a side," which doesn't seem damaging, everywhere, to progressive causes.
I should note that I'm a fairly centrist Dem, so I may be more comfortable with incremental change (as opposed to radical change) than you are.
"Analytic Philosopher"
Crap. One 'c' away from combining the two to make 'Prophylactic'.
." I say "partly" because I think it's silly to suggest an Al Qaeda supporter could sign this oath without mental reservation etc.
Mental reservation clauses are meaningless.
Mental reservation clauses are meaningless.
Because it's like saying, "no crossing your fingers!"?
126: Always assume w-lfs-n's being a little bitch. I assume it's some sentence structure issue, though I can't see it.
Carrier is really good. But man, some of those people have fucked up starts in life. In 9 or 10, a Marine talks about his carny parents up and leaving the carnival one day, taking his sister but leaving his 3 year old self behind. Some guy named Uncle Eddie took care of him for a while.
Always assume w-lfs-n's being a little bitch. I assume it's some sentence structure issue, though I can't see it.
No, it's that you can't, on pain of infinite regress, make a rule commanding someone to follow rules.
123
I would say that there's a pretty proud tradition of trying to fix injustice in the US.
Right. And "go to Russia"/"love it or leave it"/whatever statements are used to shut down trying to fix injustice. Forgive the analogy, but after the civil unions law was passed in Vermont, the hick loggers in flannel were telling the happy gay couples from Massachusetts to go back where they came from, not the other way around. In fact, it would have been absurd if it had been the other way around.
I dunno, I agree with you that the actual content of the retort isn't that important, and there's no reason it couldn't be used the way you say. I'm just saying that to the extent the words are important, they're conservative words.
you can't, on pain of infinite regress, make a rule commanding someone to follow rules
The Constitution contains a similarly meaningless stipulation in Article V, which explains how to amend the Constitution. It says you can use it for any amendment except
that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.
Now, this seems silly to me, because the amending power could be used to amend this part of Article V, then you could use it to Amend those protected parts of the Constitution.
But even if it is silly, I support it.
What is a mental reservation clause?
You can't fool me, there's no such thing as a sanity clause.
Whether Article V is amendable using Article V processes is an unsettled question. It's a silly unsettled question, perhaps, but there's scholarly discussion of whether any part of the Constitution is itself unamendable.
on pain of infinite regress
The U.S. has made a pretty good start on regressing in several areas over the past few years, and on current form looks able to go on pretty much forever. They are equal to your challenge.
And "go to Russia"/"love it or leave it"/whatever statements are used to shut down trying to fix injustice. Forgive the analogy, but after the civil unions law was passed in Vermont, the hick loggers in flannel were telling the happy gay couples from Massachusetts to go back where they came from, not the other way around. In fact, it would have been absurd if it had been the other way around.
Because we ceded the words to the other side. We don't have to do so. "Don't like gay people? What can I say, equal treatment's a bitch. Get out." I don't know why it can't be used that way.
Whether Article V is amendable using Article V processes is an unsettled question
I can see why it would be unsettling, but why's it unsettled? There's nothing about it in the Constitution, is there?
It's unsettled because no one has ever challenged an attempt to amend Article V before a court of competent jurisdiction who could then rule on it and settle the question.
Right, okay, but why would it even be an open question?
5: Cal State is not UC; UC allows people to affix a statement that they will "defend" the various constitutions by non-violent means alone. Cal State is being an ass.
28: No, 'twas to fight the dreaded commies. Why does it never occur to people that anyone inclined to engage in an attempt to overthrow the gummint would simply sign the damned oath?
109: The Navy has a well-respected cooking school, actually. A couple of the people my son went to culinary management school with had gone there.
You're dreaming, Tim. Chauvinism works in fairly specific ways.
Much as I despise Canadians, they're human beings too. They've worked out a rudimentary form of democracy up there, and have even confected reasonable simulacra of universities. That is more than can be said of several of these United States.
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OT, but does anyone have any connections a little higher up that "Schlub Walking in Off the Street?? I have a policy proposal I'd like to pass on to someone who can make a reasonable call as to whether to pass it up the chain, and it might be a pretty nice way to own the whole "cost of gas" issue.
Briefly, I think Obama should propose fairly massive windfall taxes on the oil companies, but balance it out with up to 90% in tax credits back to those same companies for investing in green energy development and infrastructure, with the balance going to grants to indepents/startups for the same purpose. Takes the oil companies to the woodshed for gouging, forces them to invest in green technologies, could be used to drive energy independence, improves the environment, yadda yadda.
Viaduct?
I loved Carrier. Groundhog day describes life on board ship perfectly. the scenery doesn't even change.
The Navy has a well-respected cooking school, actually. A couple of the people my son went to culinary management school with had gone there
Aren't the White House kitchen and some other Federal branches staffed by Navy Chefs? I suppose I could look it up, but I choose to go on vague memory.
There's some debate on the question of whether amending certain parts of the constitution would so alter its overall form as to render it less of an amendment and more of a destroying the constitution and starting over from scratch.
I don't exactly see how an oath to protect and defend the Constitution violates anybody's First Amendment rights. I'm a pacifist, but I took such an oath as a requirement of my current job. It's easy to imagine nonviolent ways of protecting and defending the Constitution.
146: Does it allow for peaceful agitation for constitutional change?
Of course it does! That is the beauty of the Constitution in that it can be amended.
Why does it never occur to people that anyone inclined to engage in an attempt to overthrow the gummint would simply sign the damned oath?
For the commies, it's no problem, as above. It's the reformists that you get with it: that way, any proposal that would actually change anyone's circumstances or threaten anyone's privilege can be cast as treasonous.
It makes it difficult to inhabit the middle ground of "Yes, I love my country so much that I want it to improve" by staging the game on the ground of with us or agin' us.
Well, it depends what you're swearing to protect and defend it from, and in particular if one of those things is peaceful agitations for constitutional change.
147: Why not? The meaning of the Constitution is a matter of judicial construction. I just don't see that "protect and defend" is a formula that necessarily entails participation in military violence. Lots of pacifists have served in the military as COs, performing medical and other humanitarian tasks. I have nothing against Ms. Gonaver, but I don't necessarily agree with her interpretation of the oath.
146: Quakers religious beliefs don't allow them to swear oaths
152: Yeah, you're right. I forgot that. They could let her sign an affirmation. That's how it's handled in federal court when a witness doesn't want to swear an oath.
I got the impression, though, that the controversy wasn't so much about swearing an oath as about being required to pledge to protect and defend the Constitution. But I could be wrong.
First thoughts: The fuck a loyalty oath? I dislike the implication that it would be okay for Communists but bad for Quakers.
Again, the California oath permits an affirmation. This is not about that part of Quakerism.
First thoughts: The fuck a loyalty oath?
Let me tell you about sunny California, Cala....
Second thoughts: my in-laws are still kind of convinced that I'm a Quaker.
71, 80: All state, city, county, public school, community college and public university employees -- about 2.3 million people -- are covered by the law, although noncitizens are not required to sign.
Third thoughts: re: comment 25: again, you mean, Gonerill?
You're dreaming, Tim. Chauvinism works in fairly specific ways.
I suspect, tied to demographics, inc. rural/urban splits. It's just in group/out group, AFAICT.
my in-laws are still kind of convinced that I'm a Quaker
It's the hat.
You know, I've been a public employee in California, and I have no recollection of signing a loyalty oath. The most likely explanation is that I thought, "Oh, for heaven's sake" and signed the cussed thing, but it's also possible they forgot.
I want to have more occasions to use the phrase "pure cussedness". I think the only thing you do out of it is stay alive, or perhaps show up at a party.
I learned something about tail recursion today, everyone.
165: I'm touching myself just thinking about recursing your tail, w-lfs-n.
I learned that Leibniz's God is like Buridan's ass.
I personally would be perfectly happy to destroy the Constitution of the State of California. It would give me great pleasure to amend and repeal it, every last jot and tittle, until the state of California had no legal existence at all and the state had to be put under a federal state of emergency. When this happened I would laugh my fiendish laugh, surrounded by my sycophants and concubines, and have my dwarf jester do a Schwarzenneger impersonation.
160. Infiltrated is the word your looking for. Like the perfidious Quds forces from Iran into Iraq. Maybe that will have the same outcome, and Ashoura will be like St. Paddy's day in the future.
re: comment 25: again, you mean, Gonerill?
It was certainly a successful infiltration.
The only country Ireland (or the self-appointed representatives thereof) can plausibly be said to have invaded is, in fact, Canada.
So I find myself with an unexpected three hours in the MSP airport. Recommendations?
165: and what did you learn, Ben?
Well Sifu, I'm glad you asked that.
For reasons that are now opaque to me, I was reflecting yesterday on the endoxa that hold that you can write an interative version of any recursive function, if necessary by using an explicit stack to model the recursion. So I decided that I would do some conversions like that, easily did one for the factorial function, and then got totally tripped up by the function that, in its recursive form, would look something like this: f(n) = 1 if n == 0 or n == 1 else f(n-1)+2*f(n-2). Then today, during my german romanticism class, by looking at some call trees, I figured that you could do it by basically using the stack to construct a sequence of instructions to an rpn calculator, and then go through those instructions to compute the result, the relevant portion being something like this:
f(n) {
if (n == 0 or n == 1) return 1;
stack s, c;
push(s, (n-2, true));
push(s, (n-1, false));
while (s) {
n, d = pop(s);
if (d) push(c, "D");
else push(c, "A");
if (n == 0 or n == 1) push(c, 1);
else { push(s, (n-2, true)); push(s, (n-1, false)); }
}
[computation with contents of c elided]
}
ending up with something like AA1D1D1 (on f(3)), where A means pop two and add, and D pop one and double.
But wait, I thought, isn't this totally cumbersome and inelegant? WHEN OUT OF THE BLUE IT HIT ME: it's all cumbersome like that b/c not tail-recursive, so you have to keep track of much more. (Maybe there's a more elegant way to do it anyway.)
Then I made some killer points about the Rede über die Mythologie … laydeez.
great,
i missed a bomb threat alert at our campus, coz i went to the other one
nothing serious, just they said they found two unknown packages at the uni hospital
168: I've told you a thousand times, John, I won't do a Schwarzenneger impersonation. No means no! And if you keep trying to make me, I'll have no choice but to file a grievance with my shop steward. Also, I don't want to wear these lederhosen any more; they chafe.
ben: you've got the idea --- this is basically why it's always possible to implement tail-recursion very efficiently (e.g. implement a scheme efficiently with no iterative constraints) but general recursion can be a pain in the ass.
173: during my german romanticism class
So by the standards established on this very blog, german romanticism has now made a significant contribution to computing theory.
It's funny; I have a strong aversion to the phrase "loyalty oath," but the idea of preserving and protecting the Constitution is deeply meaningful to me. I think public officials should have to swear to do that, if only so we can hold it up to them when they violate it. I'm not thrilled about the idea of universities making people sign this sort of statement, but I'm generally unsympathetic enough to academia that I don't really think I can have an objective reaction.
It makes it difficult to inhabit the middle ground of "Yes, I love my country so much that I want it to improve" by staging the game on the ground of with us or agin' us.
I'm not totally sure this is true. It doesn't take that much talent with rhetoric to imagine an argument along the lines of, oh, the right to peacably assemble and petition the government for redress of grievances? Probably kinda important to the Founders, seeing as how it was in the very first amendment.
Runaway italics; sorry. I only meant to italicize "should" in the first paragraph, and of course in the second paragraph I'm quoting Wrongshore.
german romanticism has now made a significant contribution to computing theory
Actually I rather like football.
The only country Ireland (or the self-appointed representatives thereof) can plausibly be said to have invaded is, in fact, Canada.
Although what exactly they thought they were going to accomplish is kind of beyond me.
Also, I was pwned much more succinctly by wd in 150.
I'm not totally sure this is true...
It's worse than that. In my experience, the more strongly anyone asserts these "with us or 'agin us" ideas, the more likely that whatever they are objecting too is actually codified in the `us' they are trying to claim.
Stras did have a point, though, that the constitution is and always was a flawed document. It has some intrinsic good points, but mainly it's one of the few sources of unity this country has. Europeans laugh at American reverence for the Constitution, but without it we'd have to reason with one another, and a lot of those guys are impossible to reason with.
I might see my way to signing a loyalty pledge to support and defend the US Constitution, but who the fuck knows what's in the California Constitution?
Chauvanism works in certain ways, true, but not just in the narrow ways that it works in the US. The French anti-royalist left during the July Monarchy called themselves "patriots". IIRC, the same is true of the movement that Samuel Johnson was bitching about when he said that patriotism is the last defense of scoundrels.
America is an imaginary construct, which means that we have the power to recreate it in our own image. I say the only real America is transvestite hookers turning tricks under the West Side Highway, and if you don't like it move to Zimbabwe.
I could actually get behind making some kind of oath required for being a public official
In order to be pollworkers or election judges, in NC, we have to take an oath to uphold the laws and constitution of blibbidy-blah. I take it every time without complaint; it's a state job enforcing election laws, after all. We also do the pledge at the beginning of training every year and I get a little misty because, as I think I've discussed before, I'm big into symbols and hold the flag in very high regard. I shut my mouth during "under God," in part because it knots my knickers but mostly, in all seriousness, because I wouldn't mean it if I said it and I'd feel guilty lying when making the pledge.
That said, a loyalty oath for a job as a teacher? Completely un-American. Whoever devised it had one of two things: a high tolerance for irony or a complete dearth of intellectual curiosity because without one or the other the very concept should have made their head explode the moment they conceived the idea.
I'm pretty sure I wasn't making any coherent point with 150, but I'm still proud that you feel it pwned you.
When this happened I would laugh my fiendish laugh, surrounded by my sycophants and concubines, and have my dwarf jester do a Schwarzenneger impersonation.
♥
Why do American kids have to pledge allegiance "to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands" while public officials, etc. get to swear to "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution?" The 2nd seems more reasonable.
Does the republic imply the Constitution? Is the part about the one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all just dicta? Are they pledging to uphold it in that form? Or are they released from obligation if it ceases to be godly or just?
Or are they released from obligation if it ceases to be godly or just?
I've always assumed it's kind of half-and-half: half an affirmation that they will help to bring these things about and half a statement of demands, a promise that if these things aren't delivered then all bets are off. It's partly cheerleading and partly mission statement only people have the option of really believing it. (I don't hold it against anyone if they think the pledge, the flag, whatever, falls somewhere between silly and offensive. I get misty but not so much that I fail to see our terrible mistakes, past and present. To some degree I am aware that my emotional investment in it as a symbol is an act of reclaiming what plenty of others to whom it's also important would just as happily deny me.)
My attitude toward the Pledge has always been colored by the context in which it was inflicted on us (during a time of particularly panicky nationalism). It holds no particular meaning or emotion for me. I remember as a kid asking what kind of a country would require that you regularly promise obedience.
But per 180, I have no problem with the idea of preserving and protecting a document which is so deeply flawed that it defined a group of human beings as 3/5 human. So it's not like I'm Ms. Rational here.
For a lot of war veterans the flag acquires a sort of sacred status. In politics the flag is a proxy for war, the military, and the sacrifices soldiers make. It's a very powerful symbolism because it stands for demands made on some but not all Americans which are in many cases impossible to repay, and there's a lot of guilt and horror in that.
I had an oath at DOJ. Pledging to uphold, defend, bear true faith & allegiance to the laws seemed pretty appropriate for the cabinet dep't charged with administering them. For all the good that it does....A math teacher having to do it seems sketchier, & firing pacifist quakers for not wanting to accidentally pledge to go to war is sketchier stiill.
Fun fact: Erik Prince also has his employees pledge to uphold & defend the U.S. Constitution in exactly the same terms as the military's enlistment oath. And yet, they remain unaccountable mercenaries & not U.S. soldiers.
I am 100% behind the pledge. Should kids be forced to recite it? I don't really know, but I think probably not, but all adults damn well ought to want to recite it. If you don't believe in "our country", as an abstract idea, you aren't going to be willing to sacrifice and fight for its preservation. I'm not talking about military service--I'm talking about fighting against people here in this country who want to pervert it. We need a population devoted to the idea that there is something about our country worth working for and investing themselves in. Worth dying for. If you live in a democracy, you aren't just an "individual" or a "consumer", or whatever the fuck else, you're a goddam citizen. Or at least you should be. And that should mean something to you.
there's a lot of guilt and horror in that
There is definitely a lot of survivor's guilt involved in a lot of people's feelings about it and with what they invest it as a symbol. Among the veterans and survivors in my grandparents' generation there was a lot of what can only be called reverence but the first thing they would talk about was the dead. Conscious or not, for them it became a symbol of imagined happiness cut short.
Carrier is good. Just for capturing the sheer surreal quality of being stuck on the giant boat in question. But I found myself wishing there was some mighty patriotic institution that would give people second chances, bring them together in a disciplined communal way, around some higher purpose besides killing other people. You know, moral equivalent of war.
Wouldn't it be cool if there were millions of people in the Peace Corps and they travelled around the world in giant boats looking for opportunities to do good? And then LB had them all invade Pakistan or something? Except the Pakistanis would love them for it?
Kobe thinks that sounds nice, but a little National Greatness-y.
Kobe's never scoring 200 points, Tim.
133: YAY!
There was a period in my life when I got presents from sanity and insanity claus. Of course the latter ones were best of all. I think my grandma came up with it separately from chico, though.
i love you for writing 133, "Eric."
to cjb who is wondering if White House chefs are always Navy chefs: the lovely Jacques Pepin was White House chef for a while, and he is not even a US citizen let alone member of the Navy, so it might happen sometimes but it is most definitely not required.
and on another note, when my passport was stolen when I was overseas, I had to swear a loyalty oath to the US government in order to get a new one. Specifically, I had to promise that I had not and would not commit any form of treason against the US. I have zero problem with that. It's what makes us a republic - citizens have to make a commitment to each other and to the republic itself. If we were just a monarchy, or a tribe, or a hereditary ethnic culture that you get born into, that would be one thing, but we are very explicitly a republic, and there are responsibilities that come with that. If we have problems with laws or policies, we are supposed to change them from within.
Spoken by a great big fat lefty.
Because it's like saying, "no crossing your fingers!"?
Because if your tongue swears to, but your heart does not, you've sworn to; your heart doesn't enter into it.
I don't see how the regress of rules is relevant here, actually, and this formulation: No, it's that you can't, on pain of infinite regress, make a rule commanding someone to follow rules.
isn't really right. I can certainly make a rule commanding umpires in baseball to follow certain rules. I can also establish (pace the claim of meaninglessness in 133) procedures for how to change the rules of baseball. What I can't do is, when it comes to the application of rules, have it be rules all the way down. (This rule says how to apply that rule. But how do I apply this rule?)
Oh, the other reason is that it's equivalent to adding the claim "and I'm not lying" to the oath. But that's ridiculous. A liar would also affirm that—he's a liar, remember?—and the only evidence you would have later that he was lying would also be evidence that he had abrogated the oath anyway, so... In general you can't have a sign for sincerity; this is widely known.
"But how do I know that the expression '"fog", where "fog" means fog' means '"fog", where "fog" means fog'"?
Kobe's never scoring 200 points
Any Wilt defenders around here? Wilt could never have scored 81 in the modern NBA.
The last major influence on the game of baseball that everyone recognizes, whether from the AL or the NL, is Wittgenstein.
In general you can't have a sign for sincerity; this is widely known.
Damn, this makes me smile.
Any Wilt defenders around here? Wilt could never have scored 81 in the modern NBA.
Disagree. I think Shaq put up 60+ in one game, David Robinson had 71 in a game, and Wilt was, by most accounts, a much better athlete than either.
We readers of archaic and antiquated ex-philosophers have to stick together, parsimon.
I can certainly make a rule commanding umpires in baseball to follow certain rules.
Certain rules, yes, but not rules as such. Or, you can, but infinite regress.... Similarly, you can tell someone that they can only sign if they don't have mental reservations, but they can keep having mental reservations when signing the mental reservations clause, and you could add another clause, etc.
"But how do I know that the expression '"fog", where "fog" means fog' means '"fog", where "fog" means fog'"?
I was thinking of Kant, actually: Examples are thus the go-cart of judgment; and those who are lacking in the general talent [of applying rules] can never dispense with them (A134/B174). (The Guyer/Wood translation has the more literal but less pleasing "thus examples are the leading-strings of the power of judgment, which he who lacks the natural talent for judgment can never do without".)
This section is also the site of this great footnote:
The lack of the power of judgment is that which is properly called stupidity, and such a failing is not to be helped. A dull or limited head, hwich is lacking nothing but the appropriate degree of understanding and its proper concepts, may well be trained through instruction, even to the point of becoming learned. But since it would usually still lack the power of judgment (the secunda Petri), it is not at all uncommon to encounter very learned men who in the use of the science frequently give glimpses of that lack, which is never to be ameliorated. (A133/B172–A134/B173)
Because if your tongue swears to, but your heart does not, you've sworn to; your heart doesn't enter into it.
Why do I think you've used that line on women before, w-lfs-n?
Wilt was, by most accounts, a much better athlete than either
Much better than those two? Who says that?
212: oh, well, if that's what you meant.
Why do I think you've used that line on women before, w-lfs-n?
Your mom's tongue swore to some pretty nasty things last night, Tim.
Disagree. I think Shaq put up 60+ in one game
Anyway, the more important point is that he was often the only guy his size on the floor. That wouldn't be true now.
If it was with you, it would more or less have to, no?
I knew I had used that footnote before.
It's a sign that you're losing your edge.
Anyway, the more important point is that he was often the only guy his size on the floor. That wouldn't be true now.
1. I'm not sure that's true, especially later in his career.
2. It's not just size, it's athleticism, as you know.
As he did at Overbrook, Chamberlain again showcased his diverse athletic talent. He ran the 100-yard dash in 10.9 seconds, threw the shotput 56 feet, triple jumped more than 50 feet, and won the high jump in the Big Eight track and field championships three straight years.
217: (I figured that's what he meant, but it left room to, uh, worry the question, yeah. Charitable reading, people!)
Next up: Battlestar Galactica!
I lost my edge a long, long time ago.
222: Obama just said "the reason is because", Ben. It's Shaq or nothing for you now.
I'm not sure that's true, especially later in his career.
Yeah, but that's not when he scored 100.
it's athleticism, as you know
Impressive, but only so much of that translates to basketball, and I'm not sure he was actually quicker than Robinson, or more agile than (young) Shaq.
Impressive, but only so much of that translates to basketball, and I'm not sure he was actually quicker than Robinson, or more agile than (young) Shaq.
For gawd's sake, he had sex with 20,000 women, which speaks to his incredible stamina. There are NBA franchises that can't put up those numbers. I guarantee neither Robinson nor O'Neal did.
I'm not sure that's true
In the 60's centers were commonly 6'7'' or 6'8''.
A.C. Green had sex with 0 women -- the NBA record. He was a churchy kind of guy from Portland, OR.
You cannot divide by the number of women A.C. Green had during his career. It's mathematically impossible. If he had figured out a way to have sex with fewer than 0 women, he would have. Or guys, either. This is a record that will never be broken.
He was a churchy kind of guy from Portland, OR.
232: Also, not terribly attractive.
This is a record that will never be broken
Someone could sleep with zero people over a longer career.
In the 60's centers were commonly 6'7'' or 6'8''.
He dropped 50 on Bill Russell, who was 6'10".
He did it without the use of drugs, too. Not like Keith Richard.
not terribly attractive
He's a hell of a lot better-looking than LeBron, you racist.
He's not your type, Tim.
That's a terrible picture to make my point. He use to have a Jheri Curl hair cut, but I was too lazy to find such a picture.
A.C. Green, Jr., (born October 4, 1963 in Portland, Oregon) is a former NBA basketball player who has played in more consecutive games than any other player in NBA and ABA history (1,192).
That would be hard to do too.
239: Not if they're both holding their bank books.
239: LeBron looked pretty good tonight.
He dropped 50 on Bill Russell, who was 6'10".
Exactly. Nowadays he'd be facing a guy that big or bigger every game, not to mention modern power forwards helping out on defense who are light years bigger and faster than anything he saw on a regular basis.
Green apparently spent part of his childhood in Hermiston, which is a serious redneck town. He suffered from severe hiccups during his whole playing career, which kept him from ever sleeping well.
244: You just hate the old and the dead. No wonder you support Obama. I'd take Wilt over any other center in history.
I'd take Wilt over any other center in history.
How high are you?
In America, Wilt take you.
Given the 20K, he must have covered a hell of a lot more territory than just America.
Are we taking his word for 20k? Doesn't that seem, I don't know, like kind of a lot?
Well, I'd take Frédéric Weis under any other center in history.
250: Yeah, I think it's an enormous exaggeration. I think he said as much, actually. Gawd, I really shouldn't know this much trivia about the NBA.
Ah, so you get to compare Chamberlain against players 30+ years down the line. Fine, I'll compare Shaq and Robinson to the best centers in 2028. And Johnny Weismuller would get beat by 15 year old girls ...
As punishment, I command ogged, gswift and other wrong people on this thread to go sit in a corner and not think of a white bear (don't think of different white bear than A White Bear that is).
It'll be pretty sweet if the Hawks take this to seven.
Fine, I'll compare Shaq and Robinson to the best centers in 2028.
You think the average height of centers will be 4 or 5 inches taller than it is now in 20 years?
shit, that was incoherent, but you know what I mean
You think the average height of centers will be 4 or 5 inches taller than it is now in 20 years?
Who knows? But trust me it will be some fucking thing or another that will render the comparison difficult. I cannot even believe you guys are being so dense on this. I mean from ogged you come to expect it, but ...
Atlanta is playing too conservatively now. (Yes, I know the announcer just said that, but it's true.)
Celtics suck. The Lakers swept a team with 50 wins in the West, and people talk like the Celts have a shot. Not likely, you dirty east coast motherfuckers.
I cannot even believe you guys are being so dense on this
What do you think the argument is? We're saying that Wilt couldn't score 100 today (even leaving aside the fact that he's dead).
But trust me it will be some fucking thing or another that will render the comparison difficult.
What does that have to do with making fun of the old and slagging on other people's favorite players?
182: german romanticism has now made a significant contribution to computing theory
Actually I rather like football.
So is the rule that if you're name gets mentioned in the post you get to be the fucking thread Nazi?
Speaking of Wilt, holy shit this is a good Celtics game.
JEEEZ this is some hard fought shit.
How often do players even take 50 shots in a game? (Or, I guess with free throws, you probably could get to 100 with 40-45 shots. And that's just the minimum number of shots required. No one's going to have a 100% night.)
Holy wow that was a lucky three.
260, 261: These comparisons between eras never work the way you guys seem to be wanting to make it work is my point. You can't set the conditions on what you want the hypothetical Wilt who competes in 2000 to be in any kind of meaningful way.
So is the rule that if you're name gets mentioned in the post you get to be the fucking thread Nazi?
The rule is, ja'm tomorrow and ja'm yesterday, but never ja'm today.
Fuckin' A! C'mon celts put 'em away.
We're saying that Wilt couldn't score 100 today
81. Which Kobe did.
Also, not terribly attractive.
I don't think that's an impediment in the NBA.
273: The second picture is just fantastic. I love Sam.
Gawd, it's going to be great watching the Lakers break Boston's heart.
While seeing the Celtics get put away by the Hawks would warm my soul, I think I want them to make it to the finals so the Lakers can humiliate them.
I'm sitting here with my five-year-old son, watching the end of the Celtics game. This is the first time he's ever watched sport. But he knows his grandfather lives and dies with the Cs, so he's deeply invested in the game. Alas, I'm afraid that he's about to be pretty upset.
Holy wow c'mon guys put one in don't go for the three you can take them in OT I think I don't know yeaaaargh (brain explodes; Sam Cassell shapes all over the wall!)
276: pwned and deluded; that's gotta hurt.
Atlanta actually had a pretty good home record this year.
Far be it from me to pretend they're going to win tonight, though. Choke, bibster! Choke, lobster bib!
That's the Bibby I know and hate from his days in Sacramento.
277: Does anyone have the number for the Department of Youth and Family Services?
277: Does anyone have the number for the Department of Youth and Family Services?
Stupid shot, Rajon. Oh well; they'll kill 'em in Game 7.
my God, what a lame last possession...
284-85: I'll say it twice, it's only 8 pm here. So what's the problem? That I'm exposing the lad to Boston sports? Yeah, I guess I see your point.
288: you're an honorable man, Ari. A wise an honorable man. A life earned through pain is a life worth living.
Also here's what a lame-ass sports fan I am: I skipped the middle part of the game to watch Obama's speech. Oh, he had game.
Looks like Boston's on track to not close the deal in another championship this year.
So what's the problem? That I'm exposing the lad to Boston sports? Yeah, I guess I see your point.
I think that's fine as long as you expose him to Buddhism at the same time. Suddenly games become teaching moments.
291: gswift I love your misplaced optimism. Work that.
In my former neighborhood, on a weeknight last week, I heard kids who couldn't have been older than 10 - probably younger than 7 or 8 - outside playing on the sidewalks until nearly midnight.
292: Suddenly games become teaching moments.
I watched '86 Game 6 at the house of a diehard Boston fan. He had three young sons who wandered off to play early in the game (this also happened to be in California), after the 2nd out he called them back into the room: "Come in here boys, you're going to remember this the rest of your lives!"
But won't the new generation of Boston sports fans grow up thinking that their teams haven't won in just a few years, rather than decades?
Everything I know about injustice I learned from Hugh Hollins.
295: oh god I could tell you every detail of that night, down to the notes of the special song I'd composed, that I had practiced, ready to play for my whole family on my Euphonium when the Red Sox won the series. I could describe to you in every detail the chair I was sitting on.
I mean, it's retarded.
I must say, rather surprising from the Tri-City(Davenport/Moline/Rock Island) Blackhawks/Milwaukee/St. Louis/Atlanta Hawks, you'd a thunk it was Bob Pettit out there putting in 30 and pulling down 20 boards per game.
250
"Are we taking his word for 20k? Doesn't that seem, I don't know, like kind of a lot?"
IIRC what he actually wrote in his book was that he was closing in on 20000. He also claimed none of them were (to his knowledge) married so he did have standards.
Everything I know about injustice I learned from 800 years of colonial oppression. Wait, I mean bitterness. Everything I know about bitterness.
300: was that he was closing in on 20000
Gosh, so am I! Or is it a rule that the other party has to know about it? (And you're talking about Kobe, right?)
Everything I know about bitters I learned from 800 years of colonial debauchery.
One of the great mysteries of this blog, that shall ever remain so, is the import of the Kobe reference. Seriously.
Sifu plays euphonium?
I read this and was like, he stole that cd from me!
303: All 800-year-old men are bitter.
A marinade will often help.
The 20K figure is obviously a lie. I think the fact that A C Green was a pro athlete and remained a virgin the whole time is the kind of tragedy that inspired the line "Gather ye rosebuds while ye may".
307: okay, well, (a) there were already plenty of tuba players and I didn't want to be "oh, there's one of those 18 guys who plays tuba" and (b) you can develop a lot more interestic melodic kind of figures on a euphonium. I bet you played clarinet, conformist.
Not slagging the euphonium, which is also a properly manly instrument what with the brass and bass clef and all.
The guy I went to my senior prom with was a euphonium player from a neighboring high school.
I bet you played clarinet, conformist.
I played trombone.
The girl I went to my senior prom with was dating a euphonium player! Weird!
I should have known Apo played brass like a real man.
I was tuba section leader in high school.
315: I am not even a little bit surprised. The girl in all-town band? You know, the one who looked a little like Tina Yothers, who I rapidly got over when I got to high school? Trombone player.
We were required to play an instrument during fifth grade. Trumpet. Hated it. Don't think I practiced even once. I wanted to play the flute for some reason (probably because I'm gay), but was told I had the wrong kind of lips. Racists.
The first part of 318 doesn't have anything to do with the second part, thanks, demon Malbec. I knew apo played the trombone because he's a funky, funky dude.
319: DSL ain't no FPL, if you see what I'm saying.
322: Uhh, I played the flute pretty seriously for 11 years.
No, I have no idea what you're saying.
I played the recorder in elementary school. I kind of wish I'd been encouraged to play the piano, like my sister was. Instead there was this crazy idea that I'd play the violin, which I hated.
323: but do you play it now?
Lamarckism was right!
324: on evidence of the person sitting next to me, nobody does.
Uhh, I played the flute pretty seriously for 11 years.
And then you were paroled?
Huh, you need a certain kind of lips to play the flute? I guess. My first boyfriend played the flute. Pretty. Huh.
Euphonia are great. They really are euphonious.
A tuba is a proper manly instrument.
I'm going to see Carl Ludwig Hübsch play one on tuesday!
I wanted to play the flute for some reason (probably because I'm gay)
You and Eric Dolphy.
||
Even this white boy's first attempt at mujadara is delicious, it turns out.
|>
I'm going to see Carl Ludwig Hübsch play one on tuesday!
I love w-lfs-n.
I reject and renounce 334. Blume, in addition to having given up the flute, has let her skills at changing the Name field atrophy quite appallingly.
Even this white boy's first attempt at mujadara is delicious, it turns out.
Sounds tasty, but I bet you're no Ben w-lfs-n's sister.
The second Youtube result for "Carl Ludwig Hübsch" is pretty good.
Is Hübsch hübsch? You be the judge.
Hübsch maybe. That's not necessarily a compliment for a dude, though.
There's a euphonium player in Kayo Dot. He was mostly inaudible when I went to see them.
What does"hübsch" mean? I'm currently partial to the the translation as provided by a google video search.
The euphonium is a great instrument.
A euphonium encomium.
One of the great features of mujadara is that it is easy and reliable as well as delicious.
you need a certain kind of lips to play the flute?
Flute - traditionally for girls, but not always. Flute is very much like recorder or flutaphone in that the fingerings are almost the same. Here is what to look for - Can your child exhale and continue air flow for at least 20 seconds? If not, flute is not a good choice. It takes A LOT of air to play the flute! Also, if your child has what we call the "teardrop" lip, that is not a good sign.
If I'm going to be completely honest with you people, I played the baritone horn. It's just that "euphonium" is a better name.
mujadara
In Iranian cooking, it's called "addas pollo." Just FYI, homies.
I would be impressed if someone could play on the harmonica encomia to euphonia.
It takes A LOT of air to play the flute!
Craic/crack is the clichéd misunderstanding of Irishese, but I remember an American in college looking curious when a trad musician I used to follow around like a lost mooncow be good friends said someone had "great blow." Turned out to be a flute player.
I played guitar in high school, like any heterosexual male should. Shit, no wonder Wilt could reach 20K, facing that kind of competition. If he were facing more modern, guitar-playing competition, he'd have trouble cracking 10.
346: The fuck?
Also, fingerings are also almost the same for clarinet, saxophone, oboe, bassoon, usw. Also.
It's kind of a strange site, but it mentions the lip thing, so hey. Wheat, chaff.
I would be impressed if someone could play on the harmonica encomia to euphonia.
If played on a a mouth organ engraved with a camellia pattern, it would be a japonica harmonica euphonium encomium.
but was told I had the wrong kind of lips
He meant you don't have a vagina, Ogged.
So what exactly is the difference between a baritone horn and a euphonium?
In Iranian cooking, it's called "addas pollo." Just FYI, homies.
What? there's no chicken.
it would be a japonica harmonica euphonium encomium.
And if you sang your praises with a certain sort of radioactive squeezebox, it would be a plutonium harmonium euphonium encomium.
357: But the wonders of modern surgery, eh?
352: now I am.
A "teardrop" upper lip, an upper lip that protrudes somewhat into the mouthpiece and that even at rest appears to hang down in the middle, like a teardrop, requires a somewhat modified approach.
Grody! Ogged has an "outie" mouth-clitoris!
What? there's no chicken.
I almost forgot that I'm Mexican.
359: And if done badly it would be plutonium harmonium euphonium encomium meconium.
352: They're sort of the same, except for the damned forked F on the oboe, and the fact that the instruments are in different keys. I used to be musical and I really miss that, come to think of it.
"Pollo" is the Farsi word for chicken too? Fascinating.
Also, I don't suppose anyone here can explain why the lower-tier seats ("terrace reserved") at Wrigley Field are more expensive than the upper-tier seats, can they? I'm assuming that they are obstructed in some way. But how can an entire section be obstructed? Or maybe "terrace" means there are no seats and it's a standing area.
Wait, these are probably the seats that are facing the wrong way. I read about those.
No, isn't that Fenway Park"? Or Tiger Stadium? that has the seats facing the right fielder?
ZOMG the only other sub-$100 seats might disappear at any moment, for all I know.
363: you'd want to do sort of a post-mortem, were that to come to pass, with experts in the field; a plutonium harmonium euphonium encomium meconium symposium.
except for the damned forked F on the oboe
Okay, I used to play the oboe, and I have no memory of this. I'm *sure* I must have played an F at some point though.
So, her name is some weird dialect form of the word for pretty?
369: couldn't tell you, but kickass pseud, SAD!
"Fuck to oboe" is one of those phrases that seems to have gone sneaking underground.
(Surprisingly, there's only one google hit for "gone sneaking underground".)
I can't figure out why this game is going on so long. Napi?
I was a clarinetist, Josh, and only played the oboe to fuck with the orchestra director's head* now and then, but this is what I mean.
*I had, at one point, the ability to be instantly mediocre on any woodwind instrument I picked up. It's a bizarre and useless musical talent, but in a mediocre high school band, it meant I could get bored and decide to play the oboe part.
376 as a point of information rather than in response to 375.
"Fuck to oboe" is one of those phrases that seems to have gone sneaking underground.
But it will return one day in our time of need and sweep our oppressors from the land.
379: oh! What are the chances: it's been raining here, too!
380: fuck you, clown.
377: Huh. I have no memory of that particular issue. Then again, I wasn't a particularly diligent student.
I was always jealous of the clarinetists (and the saxophonists), cause they could play something other than classical music. Not much call for rock oboe.
This thread's not really about anything anymore, right? So I hope nobody will mind my mentioning that Don Cazayoux really might win the special election tomorrow for the Louisiana 6th's House seat. Which means: it could not suck worse for the Republicans right now. Seriously, that a Democrat might win that district is astonishing.
Not much call for rock oboe.
Lozenge begs to differ.
I am very surprised that y'all are talking about flautists and not mentioning band camp. Are you hipsters or no?
Well they weren't around when I was playing oboe, now were they?
Just wanted to mention that I appreciate the "fuck to oboe" reference.
Just back from hearing Puccini's Chrysanthemums, Sibelius' Violin Concerto and Brahms 1. Satisfying evening.
1. oh god I could tell you every detail of that night
OMG so great. Unforgettable. The eclipse ending minutes after the last out.
2. gswift, my brother. I played tuba my last year in HS. I sounds as though there's a low brass quartet in the Mineshaft.
3. Carl Ludwig Hübsch is the Stefano Scodanibbio of the tuba.
Ben: obviously, easier iterative is not to think of it as recursive: (rereading, I'm not sure if this is what you mean, but here goes, on the off chance that this didn't occur to you, and of course, you could just compute the function)
f(n){
if ((n==0) or (n==1))
return 1;
prev_var = 1;
prev_prev_var = 1;
for cur_var=3 to n do {
tmp = cur_var;
cur_var = prev_var + 2*prev_prev_var;
prev_prev_var = prev_var;
prev_var = tmp;
}
return cur_var;
}
Yes, that's the obvious iterative solution. But I wanted an iterative solution that was *explicitly* following the recursive form. I didn't want to be bothered to find a problem where there's no choice but to use an explicit stack (since I understand there are such), so I took this problem and added it as a constraint.
Well they weren't around when I was playing oboe, now were they?
Berckmanns probably was.
Sigh. No active threads? Does everybody sleep in on Saturdays or something? With no regard for my need to be pitiful and whiny?
Renewed the breakup with the Guy I was Casually Seeing Thursday night/Friday morning. I think this time it will stick, if only because it would be too pathetic to keep repeating this routine. It also occurred to me last night that Thursday was the anniversary of the day that UNG and I got together millions of years ago. I am sad. When you all wake up you can feel sorry for me.
(The silver lining is that I am now wholeheartedly committed to signing up for the Crazy Blind Date next weekend.)
I'm here and sympathetic. Poor Di. Would you like to proctor a calculus exam with me?
Don't be sad, Di. When you are done with Heebie's exam, you could help me grade essay tests. Then maybe later we can go see Iron Man.
Oooh! Calculus! I used to know how to do calculus! I used to like calculus. When I was a freshman in college, I would sometimes do calculus problems just for fun when I didn't feel like studying literature. I didn't take any math in college, though. I sometimes tell myself that I am going to dig out my old calculus book and relearn it (yes, I am that big of a dork), until I remember that I don't have actual leisure time for that. Though I guess I've opened up a little extra time now...
I realize you guys are trying to offer "it could be worse scenarios," but I love grading essays. I do want to see Iron Man, too, which kind of surprises me because it's not usually the type of movie I get into.
I have my grandma's old calculus book from the 30's that she bought at one point, intending to learn calculus on her own. When I have time, I'm going to read through it. It's very cute and talks in rambling prose about things which are very, very large and things which are very, very small.
397: Nah, yours is worse. I'm just watching a bunch of kids sweat bullets.
So, you're saying the best answers for her exam would be ex recto?
Integrate over the curve of the ass!
I gave them this as a bonus question - how much did Mr. Monroe write the cheque for?
things which are very, very large and things which are very, very small
cocks@unfogged.com
Heebie also teaches Posterior Analytics.
405: If you leave out the very, very large part, that is.
Did you include the "What now, bitches?"
Yes. I want them to think that I'm no square.
Did any of you nerds get Games magazine as a kid? There was always a section on a letter that had been addressed to the magazine using a rebus or cryptogram of some kind and the person who wrote it and the postman who deciphered it. I loved that.
Checkwriter man is my new hero.
409: Does everyone else say "check"? I couldn't remember.
This is a really fun calculus (and other things) book.
A life earned through pain is a life worth living.
Boston fans are the most spoiled and self-righteous of any sports fans. The Sox made the World Series in the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 00s. The Celtics reached the NBA finals every year between WWII and the retirement of Larry Bird. The Pats and their smirking, sweatshirted coach won seven straight championships, or maybe it just felt that way. Yet with all that, Boston still feels entitled to the worst sort of self-indulgent sports sentimentalism, tormenting the rest of us with gigantic self-pitying essays by the likes of John Updike, slow-motion TV montages about the "curse" set to classical music, etc. etc. The overblown pomposity of Boston's literary front men is only matched by the crudeness and vulgarity of their actual fans, one of whom once spit on me when I was cheering for the other team at Fenway. Fuck a bunch of Boston.
Gawd, it's going to be great watching the Lakers Cavaliers break Boston's heart.
411: Postman? Really, oudemia? Please. Mail carrier is the preferred nomenclature.
411: I loved that magazine. Some of those puzzles were quite convincingly hard.
one of whom once spit on me when I was cheering for the other team at Fenway
In my defense, you deserved it.
Checkwriter man is my new hero.
An excellent hero, to set alongside Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Garibaldi. He's the guy who does this comic.
I often buy Games even to this day. Sadly, the quality has plummeted. (They went out of business around 1990 and were bought by a company that doesn't care much about quality. Apparently the many names on the masthead are almost all out of date, and the actual staff for the entire magazine is just two lonely souls.)
Maybe they can rub together and make baby lonely souls to keep them company.
Sorry, I had only read half the thread and y'all had moved on.
Sorry, Di! Heebie! asses! All right!
In my defense, you deserved it.
Hillary wasn't even running for anything yet.
Fun puzzles: http://www.pandamagazine.com/island/index.html
418: Oh, him. Then, at least in December or so, he was the boyfriend of the daughter of some older friends of mine. She's an MIT student, so I'm guessing he is too?
Shouldn't we be continuing to tease console Di about her ex-relationship?
EMERSON SCREWED UP THE HTML! roflmao, god that's rich.
423: he used to be. I believe he graduated.
At this point, he sells comic merchandise. He used to be a NASA contractor. Wikipedia page.
You know what really tease consoles? Rory is building a Lincoln Log structure with a ramp system to the roof and a long line of Lincoln Log people waiting to ascend. The ramp keeps collapsing, so I said "All those people are going to get hurt." What does she say? "It's okay, they all signed contracts."
429: a rare ignorant spot in his ouevre.
Loved Games. One of the contests led to me buying Webster's Third (And I proceeded to cheat, writing a nifty little program in Fortran (running under Univac Exec 8) to find the solution. But I missed winning because I did not find one of the words in the winning solution in my manual scan through the dic.) That contest like many others at the time was won by a Kyle Corbin form Raleigh NC, was glad to see him noted in an entry on Games at Everything2.
From the discussion page of the wikipedia article:
Issues
This article or section has multiple issues.As does the subject, I assure you. --Xkcd (talk) 06:14, 3 May 2008 (UTC)xkcd
Well, he doesn't seem to have ever attended MIT, so I must be confusing my geekomix.
What does she say? "It's okay, they all signed contracts."
Hilarious! Just wait until she learns about mandatory arbitration clauses and limitations on punitive damages. With that kind of liability protection, she can start integrating Matchbox cars and erector sets into her Lincoln Log structures.
I fear I may have created a monster. A monster who will probably make partner before I do, but a monster nevertheless.
PGD, the military has been trying to implement your idea up to a point with an LHA off West Africa. It's still in uniform, but it's intended as an aid/diplomacy thing.
438: and you trust the military for that?
Also, speaking of the military attempting to appear all soft and humanitarian: what's with the horrible whiny emo soundtrack to "Carrier"? The U.S.S. Nimitz is as heavy metal as it gets.
and you trust the military for that?
I thought that they did something similar, over a short time period, after the tsunami.
A monster who will probably make partner before I do
And then sue you.
440: the occasional individual humanitarian mission, sure. But the military's basic function is to serve U.S. foreign policy. I think the most important initiative out of Africa Command in the last year or two was encouraging Ethiopia to invade Somalia because of the Scary Islamic Radicals. That wasn't very humanitarian.
Actually, sorry, I may not have understood 438. Probably because I don't actually know what an LHA is. I thought Alex was referring to the entire initiative of having a separate Africa Command.
441: It's okay, she signed a contract.
"It's okay, they all signed contracts."
Teh awesome. Rory needs to start commenting here.
I'm going to fill in timesheets, Di. Does that make you feel better? Maybe later on, I'll argue with an unpleasant adversary over the discovery schedule.
446: Maybe later on, I'll argue with an unpleasant adversary over the discovery schedule drive around doing amyl nitrite poppers while running bicyclists off the road.
442: That wasn't very humanitarian.
But we killed a bad man there! Now its going to be a lot better. USA! Feeling stronger every day!
That wasn't very humanitarian.
Perfectionist. Naderite. Gandhian. You probably sneered at Mother Theresa too.
I had to sign that oath to grade papers for a University of California campus. Take that, communism!
In order to destroy the California Constitution, we need to place people in key places throughout the California system. We have instructed our agents to take the oath, cheerfully and uncomplainingly, and to remain invisible until they are ordered to spring into action. This project will take decades.
"place people in key positions".
Fuck. Flaubert errors are more grating than w-lfs-n errors.
I was thinking of this. And the ship in question was an LPD not an LHA.
Alex,
That link is for the strategic view of Sea Basing, it looks like you were talking about is the Sea Base off Liberia where the US Navy, US Marines, Europeans, and a bunch of US and European NGOs built and used a port a mile offshore a broken port and delivered an incredible amount of humanitarian supplies.
See this, this, this, this, and this.
In my opinion, that is the most interesting use of military technology ever used for Africa.
You probably sneered at Mother Theresa too.
Don't get me started, Emerson.
Mother Teresa was able to forgive Union Carbide for Bhopal, apo, so why can't you forgive too?
Oh, so we have a little Hitchens among us. And I suppose that you also despise Kissinger. And Lady Di. And even President Mobutu.
Your kind is filled with hatred and only wants to destroy.
Why did Hitchens slur Theresa, Kissinger, Di, and Mobutu? Isn't it obvious? Two women, a Jew, and an African.
And this is Apo's hero!
Thanks, John, you reminded me of a classic Hitchens twofer from the essay collection After Diana, in which he referred to Diana and Teresa as "a simpering Bambi narcissist and a thieving, fanatical Albanian dwarf."
9/11 tok him from us, alas.
Mobutu, as we know, was the "three" who died shortly after Di and Theresa. Hitchens only wrote about him a little bit, unfortunately.
||
Speaking of family stuff. If you're seeing someone, and the guy keeps asking about your family, at what point is it appropriate to tell him that your mother is totally nuts? I mean, he sees that the questions disturb me, and then he apologizes. I did tell him that my dad had a drinking problem, but that's the normal level of craziness.
I'm going to a yoga class now, but I'll check back later.
|>
461: I've thought a lot about this, too. I think it's best to put some of this stuff up front. I don't want anyone to meet my parents who isn't prepared to deal with some pretty batshit stuff. If crazy parents is a deal-breaker, I'd rather know pretty early on.
Most of my relationships have been really casual and not procreation-bound, so most of my LTBFs have been pretty entertained by the insanity of my parentals.
What I find myself saying recently when meeting people is something like, "I have an uncommon sort of relationship with my parents," or, "We weren't close when I was growing up, but since I moved out, we're negotiating a better relationship." You don't have to get into gory details, but I think it's helpful to prevent certain kinds of awkwardness by introducing the subject mildly.
My son asks himself this same question. His parents have both strong points and weak points. His most wonderful GF loved us, but her parents didn't. He would be hard put to mate with anyone very mainstream without distancing himself.
[Roger Clemens and Mindy McCready] holed up in the trendy SoHo Grand and later partied with Monica Lewinsky and Michael Jordan.
The article points out that if you file a defamation lawsuit you are asking to have your whole past put into evidence. Duh.
Post-retirement Roger Clemens is the gift that keeps giving. I wonder if Koby, Kory, Kacy and Kody ever met Auntie Mindy.
Post-retirement Roger Clemens is the gift that keeps giving
So, so great. If I recall reports correctly, the subcommittee members split in their treatment of Clemens: Dems tough on him, Republicans soft on him. How great would it be if Dems could somehow use tape of that against the Republicans in November? "Republican X is good friends with possible pedophile Roger Clemens." I don't even think it would work at all; it would just make me laugh.
GQ: Wait, quickly: Do you believe Roger Clemens?
Rove: Um, yes, I do.
GQ: If he gets nailed on perjury charges, is that the kind of guy Bush might pardon?
Rove: I'm sorry?
GQ: Do you think if he got nailed, that would be the type of person Bush would pardon?
Rove: I'm not gonna answer that. I mean, he's done nothing wrong.
Thanks White Bear. He's said a couple of times that there's some craziness in his family, but that consists of an uncle who had PTSD after WWII and killed himself. He said that he's always there to listen etc.
If it's a total dealbreaker, then I might as well know. i just sort of wonder whether it's less of a deal breaker once people have gotten to know someone better.
I was tuba section leader in high school.
I was, unsurprisingly, a complete band nerd. Trumpet, french horn, clarinet; section leader for all three at different times. I tried to pick up the flute but it made me feel like I was going to pass out. Trumpet was my main instrument, the one I would always play to audition for all-district/all-state and at solo competition. I confess to seriously wanting BUGLEBOY as a vanity plate in high school. My trumpet from that era is actually across the room from me. Rah swears he's going to make me play it for him; I swear he won't.
||
Early voting ended today in NC. At my polling place we were doing only a half-day, 9am to 1pm. At 1pm the line was out the door, up both of the accessibility ramps, across the parking lot, out to the street and up the block. The woman who was the last in line at 1pm voted at 2:45. Everyone was cheerful, everyone was nice. I registered upwards of 100 new voters today (we have same-day registration during early voting) and gave out one (1) Republican ballot. That doesn't mean much of anything, though, given that in our town even the Unaffiliateds outnumber Republicans by several thousand.
|>
UNG's answer to that question, BG, was "after our first child is born." I don't recommend this timetable.
I think you're right that there is a stage in the relationship where people are a little more willing to bend on their dealbreakers. The danger in that, though, is that if you are rationalizing away dealbreakers in the intoxication of smittenness, they may come back to bite you later on when long-term commitment has sobered you up. In other words, someone who starts out knowing he can't cope with crazy relatives may convince himself that he can because he is so blinded by his love for you. But down the road, reality hits and he realizes that he really can't deal with that but the attachment has deepened and it just gets very hard.
in our town even the Unaffiliateds outnumber Republicans by several thousand
I love our town.
Rory needs to start commenting here.
I can picture the custody hearing now:
UNLawyer: Isn't it true, Ms. Kotimy, that you exposed the minor child to a website known as "Unfogged"?Di: Well, yes, but...UNLawyer: And isn't it true that one of the primary features of said website are, and I quote, "cock jokes"?Di: That's not all...UNLawyer: Oh, I am well aware. Isn't it true that said website also prominently features discussions of Jessica Biel, anal intercourse, and -- again, I quote -- "burning shit down"?Perhaps if there were an "Unfogged Jr."
Okay, that totally looked right on preview, dammit.
472: Oy. Yeah, mine are now literate enough to read over my shoulder, and I find myself needing to develop a policy.
The danger in that, though, is that if you are rationalizing away dealbreakers in the intoxication of smittenness, they may come back to bite you later on when long-term commitment has sobered you up
That's basically what happened at Enron. As the end of each quarter approached, management put the arm on the dealmakers to get contracts signed so they could book mark-to-mark earnings; as a result, they gave in on things that would otherwise have sunk the deal, and who knows but two years down the line, the mark-to-marks having been booked, the cash just doesn't turn up?
461. Having been there (and how), I'd say as soon as possible without forcing the conversation. If it's a dealbreaker, best get it over with. If not, it's only fair to forewarn the guy. I met my batshit m-i-l accidentally walking down the street, so I had to work out what was happening on the fly, which was not ideal.
On the other hand, you're not crazy (unless you do a very convincing persona here), so no reasonable person is going to blame you for this. If the guy is supportive of you in this situation, that's a good sign. If he tries to back off and go "La la la", that's not so good, but something you need to know.
The danger in that, though, is that if you are rationalizing away dealbreakers in the intoxication of smittenness, they may come back to bite you later on when long-term commitment has sobered you up
The GWB career. Too big and/or shocking to be allowed to fail. And yet failure is baked in.
