I'm sure that the Flophouse people will be able to scrounge her up a guy. What are her references?
I meant "preferences", but that was fine.
Getting by without a car might be possible, but I wouldn't recommend it in Alexandria, at least not in the relatively modest areas.
Cost of living isn't that bad unless you're trying to buy a house, at which point it becomes absurd.
Bah. Pwned by the new thread. I answered in the old one.
In the suburbs you'll want a car unless you live right on top of a Metro station and plan to spend your social life entirely in the city. If she lives in the city she can get everywhere she needs to go with a bike.
It's a moderately expensive city -- things could be much worse, but then again employers won't be bumping your salary up to compensate the way they would in NYC (although the job market is pretty good in general, especially if you don't mind soul-crushing government tedium). Rent is probably the most surprisingly expensive part about living around here -- $800/mo is about the cheapest I'd expect to pay for anyplace decent in the city, although of course sometimes people do get lucky.
Things that her new acquaintances will try to rope her into but which lead to fairly awful social circles: Georgetown, Kickball teams, Irish bars, Late Night Shots, most of Adams Morgan. That's where you'll find the trust funds.
To try to put dollar figures on things: if going out, expect to pay $10-$16 for an entree or burger at a "cheap" restaurant, and probably $20 or more for "cheap" in a neighborhood like Georgetown or Dupont. Beers are in the $4-$6 range at most places; cocktails or wine start there and go up. Going out for lunch will cost $8-$15 per day, depending on neighborhood and appetite.
Zipcar has an annual fee, plus $10/hr or $70/day for many cars (there are *lots* of variations and plans, but that's a good budgeting number). DC is reasonably bikeable, with caveats: there are few marked lanes, there are potholes everywhere, and there is no love lost between many suburban commuters and city cyclists (she can read DCist for plenty of flame wars about that).
A room in a house or apartment with shared space is probably going to require a minimum of $600/mo. I would budget $1000/mo for housing and utilities for a group arrangement, and if she manages to find a deal then she'll have a little mad money left over. Off street parking for a car adds at least $200/mo in most neighborhoods; street parking in many neighborhoods requires a permit and can be problematic. The H Street NE corridor (sometimes labeled something odd like Capital Hill North, which it's not) is attracting a lot of young people to cheap shared housing, but it can be scary at night and is a block-by-block thing.
I second fedward's recommendation of Zipcar; I definitely wouldn't want to live in the District, let alone the suburbs, without any car at all. (When rfts and I were there, we were in Takoma Park, on the Red Line.)
I don't know how sold she is on Alexandria. I think she's going by 'I've heard of it' and 'I have friends who want to move there, and splitting rent is cheap.' No reason to my mind she shouldn't be in the city, but I don't know her whole thinking on that.
She does not yet have a job, and I did manage to tell her about Zipcar ("it's like this cool thing that I've heard young people in DC do."), but I wasn't sure if it was a good substitute for a car. fedward, your 'dollar figures' were very helpful. She's in small town Ohio at the moment and has been in sticker shock for the past week.
I'd quibble with the food/drink prices a little -- I'd put the median burger closer to $8, but maybe I'm just a cheapskate.
If she isn't sold on Alexandria, I'd encourage her to try living in DC. I grew up in Arlington, lived there with friends for a year after college, then moved into the city. Arlington's somewhat denser than Alexandria / has more stuff to do, but I'm still very happy to be in the city these days. Best to try it now, before she starts caring about the quality of the school system.
I'd recommend Mount Pleasant as a neighborhood. Always felt safe there and my rent was
BTW -- get used to "english basements"
Also -- take #7's food numbers and half them. There are plenty of places where you can get an excellent diner for
You don't need a car if you live in DC, unless you're way out on the border. Group houses are a good way to go...if you get the right group. Always the key question.
One downside to living in the city is that certain neighborhoods have a small but genuine crime risk. You have to choose carefully. DC is one of the most dangerous cities in the country to live in (after Detroit, NOLA, a couple of others). But the best deals are often in places near the crime border.
What's her price range? There are good one-bedrooms on Capitol Hill in decent (only slightly dangerous, not really bad) neighborhoods for under $1,500 a month.
She has three potential roommates at the moment and is looking at a place at $500/month in Alexandria. I think until she gets a job, that's about all she thinks she can swing (hence the house-with-roommates idea.)
Hah! I never would have thought this would be *useful* but: following off 13, I've been playing around with DC's 2007 crime data, and plotted it out on a map just last night. Better renders are forthcoming, but you can see an early version here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/44137303@N00/2497275442
Of course, it still may not be THAT useful, since the immediate conclusions that a DC naif will draw from it is that they should look for apartments in the park, zoo or river.
Getting by without a car might be possible, but I wouldn't recommend it in Alexandria
Pshaw.
My "small but genuine crime risk" thing was kind of an odd way to put it -- DC is a high-crime city, is the bottom line, you should be careful where you live, and it's more dangerous than the suburbs.
She should be able to swing $500 a month in a group house in the suburbs, probably not that hard to do, but you would want a car out there.
As a side note, given that she doesn't have a job yet, if she wants to be an au pair or something like that, maybe with working part time, there is someone in my (beautiful, centrally located, walkable/easy metro, safe for DC) neighborhood who is looking and could likely provide a very low rent. It might be a temporary arrangement too, if she eventually finds a job and wants to move out. Email me at the link above if you're interested.
I know plenty of people who, like me, live in the city and manage fine without a car. A car is just not necessary that often, so having to rent one when it is (especially with Zipcar) is much better than having to deal with parking, vandalism, insurance, etc. With no car, you definitely want to live near the Metro, though, so housing will be more expensive.
I agree that #7's price for a cheap burger or entree is a little high, but you do have to remember that there's 10% tax on restaurant food.
For a non-trust-fund social life, she could (if she's liberal) see how she likes the crowd at DC Drinking Liberally, which is not about the drinking. We've got a range of ages and personality types.
Have all you pro-car people never heard of buses? Traffic and parking suck. Don't do it!
Found out today that The Man persists in his interest in hiring me and an offer is on the way. Barring either truly unfortunate or truly amazing circumstances, D.C., here I (and wife and bairn) come.
Yay!
This is the wingnut sister, so probably no drinking Liberally, but I'm sure Republicans get drunk, too.
I'm sure Republicans get drunk, too.
Mostly the ones advocating temperance and/or prohibition, right?
just got back to oregon from dc for the summer, thank god. before answering the question, where (in general terms, of course) is the prospective job? that will help determine potential neighborhoods; no one wants to commute for 45 minutes from arlington to new carrolton.
I'm told that basically we'll want to live in Arlington. It seemed reasonable to me when I was visiting.
A jr high - high school friend lives in Alexandria and likes it quite a bit.
21: From bits of blog gossip, I've formed the opinion that the Cato Institute would be her source for Republicans she'd want to drink with. I have no idea if this is accurate.
I'm sure Republicans get drunk, too.
Yes, all over Capitol Hill.
I lived in the DC area for six years, two in College Park, MD, and four in Southwest DC. All carless, and Zipcar came to town only during the end of my time there. My rent in Southwest was $450/mo., although that was pretty low for a quite awesom house (small room, though). Food and drink are cheaper than New York but manageable.
Basically, I second the anti-car people. Almost everyone in the DC area seems to have a car, but traffic is terrible, parking is hard to find, insurance is expensive, and while not having a car does limit you somewhat, there's loads to do that's Metro-or-late-night-cab-accessible.
Cato is the source for Republicans to drink with who also feel just fine about ass-licking.
25: Yeah, we had a funny conversation where she asked me if I knew what a think tank was. Hooboy.
There are suburbs where being carless would suck utterly, but as long as you choose where you live with an eye to where the Metro stops are and where is clearly not the car wasteland, you should be fine. If you work somewhere that's not walkable from a Metro stop, you may be sorry. Yes, there are buses, but if you work in Tyson's Corner or somewhere, trying to get to work via Metro plus bus is going to make for very long and unpleasant mornings.
25: Depends on what kind of Republican she is. "Wingnut" to me doesn't sound like an anti-Bush libertarian, which is what most of the Cato folks are, I think.
In the DC area, Republicans live south of the river. In spite of this, Alexandria is actually a pretty nice place. Though perhaps not in the "flophouse" neighborhoods.
If she's a really a wingnut, she'll want to move to Prince William County. The Alexandria/Fairfax County government would be way too functional for her liking...
It could be good for her to know where she's going to be working before picking a location. Metro and buses have weird routes through the city. There can be some places very hard to get to from others (I know a certain roommate of mine is always complaining about how hard it is to get to the Watergate area from the Flophouse). That said, I think it is important to choose neighborhoods by livability and proximity to fun stuff first. Ease of work commute only if breaking a tie.
Especially because public transit stops running pretty early so you'll likely end up spending a lot of time closeish to home or spending a bunch on cabs.
I agree with Sir Kraab. The Metrobus/rail system isn't bad for commuting from Alexandria. Many of my coworkers do it. Most of them do have cars, but don't use them for the commute. Me, I commute from South Arlington—where there is no subway line—by bus. You can get a sense of service areas by looking at maps and such at Metro's web site.
Oh, the term Alexandria is used for both Alexandria city and for parts of Fairfax county. The former has a fixed definition, the latter doesn't.
It could be good for her to know where she's going to be working before picking a location.
Yeah, I'm not sure how likely this is to happen that way. She has some interviews lined up, but they're in many diverse areas of employment.
Does DC have well-defined neighborhoods? Is there something like 'X is where all the newcomers and students tend to live,' 'Y is for lawyers with money', 'Z is not safe.'
30: I'd describe her as your basic pro-life wingnutty Republican, except that she's related to me, and so as she ages her wannabe wingnut exterior is eroding leaving basically the conservative counterpart of me. Still pro-life, but more likely to go 'wtf' when someone describes their diet plan as the Lord wanting them to be thin. And she's realizing young conservative men tend to be dicks.
I'm hoping she settles somewhere somewhat libertarian, mentally.
Takoma Park was ok for me commutally - I was going to the Library of Congress and the red line goes to Union Station and I lived not so far from the metro - but the mile and a half to the Safeway was a pain. Fortunately, the house was so awful and my roommates made such a mess of the kitchen that I gave up on cooking. As long as you avoid a house like the one I was in, the neighborhood is nice, but pretty residential.
I'm currently in Adams Morgan which is nicer in a lot of ways, but not great for metro access.
Sorry, that was a mile and a half round trip, not one way to safeway.
You can live in DC without a car. You can live in DC with one leg, if need be.
I'm impressed with the rents. In 1989, I rented a two bedroom apartment near Catholic for $890. Since then, houses out where I live have trebled in value, and the rent on that same apartment hasn't even doubled.
Since a few people think the prices I listed are high, well:
1: Yeah, my food prices were high ... a little. Sure, it's possible to find an $8 burger or chicken sandwich, but good luck finding an actual plate of food (non-sandwich, non-takeout) in a restaurant with chairs for much less than $12. My girlfriend and I eat at a lot of divey places and it's rare for the total food tab to be under $20 (excluding drinks).
1.5: Once you live here a little while you find the half-price X nights various places and you can save a bit with planning (I'm a fan of the happy hour at Chef Geoff's, for instance, and when I lived in Arlington we hit half price burger nights at Whitlow's a lot -- although I have no idea if they still have them). But if you assume you can find a lot of $10 meals you're going to run out of money fast.
2: Housing estimates were based on personal experience in the market recently. Anything less than $600/mo/person in today's market is going to have big flaws, either in its accessibility, safety, or functionality. The house I lived in my first year here had one electrical circuit spanning from the living room to the kitchen -- you couldn't make toast and coffee at the same time, or do anything in the kitchen if the TV was on. An English basement in Columbia Heights or Mt. Pleasant at about 800-900 sq feet (usually two bedrooms) is going to rent for $1000 minimum, and $1400 and up if it's in decent shape. If you want something that isn't half underground, it'll cost more.
Oddly, though, while the rents might seem high they're quite cheap compared to sale prices. Now is an excellent time to rent in DC. It's not such a great time to buy.
Does DC have well-defined neighborhoods? Is there something like 'X is where all the newcomers and students tend to live,' 'Y is for lawyers with money', 'Z is not safe.'
Yes, for the most part. It helps if you ignore Realtors, who like to concoct names like "Dupont East" (euphemism for Logan Circle, now no longer in use because Logan itself became fashionable) and the aforementioned "Capital Hill North." DC has official neighborhood boundaries, and many neighborhoods have historic associations.
Columbia Heights and Mt. Pleasant are popular with the young folk these days (I've lived in Columbia Heights for nine years now). Shaw, Bloomingdale, U Street, and Florida Ave are all coming together lately too. There is a lot of development going up Georgia Ave, but of all the recently popular neighborhoods I'd be most wary of the side streets of Georgia once you're more than a few blocks north of Howard U. Also, for that matter Realtors are doing their neighborhood stretching thing by saying that properties on the east side of Sherman Ave are in Columbia Heights. Um, no.
There are a lot of expensive properties on the Hill, but there are also a number of group houses and smaller apartment buildings scattered about, so it's incorrect to generalize that all of the Hill is expensive and/or lawyered up. Dupont Circle also has some less expensive places, but it's probably more consistently expensive than the Hill. Adams Morgan is less expensive than Dupont Circle, but it's also less accessible (the 42 bus goes right downtown, but it takes forever to get there). There are group houses near AU and in Glover Park (north of Georgetown) that probably aren't too expensive, but they're even less transit accessible (two bus lines from everywhere, in other words).
The DC neighborhoods that are truly expensive would include Georgetown, Chevy Chase and/or Friendship Heights (I'm *still* not sure where one ends and the other begins between those two), and leafy places like Crestwood.
DC has neighborhood and crime data on its "Citizen Atlas" web site, but be warned that the server it's run on appears to be powered by hamsters. It's a good way to find out if a house isn't in the neighborhood it claims it is, though, and some crime data is better than none.
Does DC have well-defined neighborhoods? Is there something like 'X is where all the newcomers and students tend to live,' 'Y is for lawyers with money', 'Z is not safe.'
The thing about DC is that it's a very physically small city undergoing very rapid gentrification. That makes for a whole lot of border areas between different types of neighborhoods, and outside of the very well-established areas in Northwest and Georgetown, those border areas are changing year by year. In Capitol Hill, the area I know best (underrated and has some terrific areas, my block is fantastic), E Street NE is very different from G Street NE, 10th Street is very different from 13th Street and *very* different than 16th Street, etc. So there's no substitute for walking your neighborhoods to get the feel, looking at crime maps, talking to people, and so forth.
Potential wingnuttery complicates matters. Do you think her disillusionment with conservative men is likely to continue to expand? If so, all my previous advice applies. If not, she should go ahead and look for apartments in Georgetown, sign up for kickball, and after games head to McFadden's to do carbombs with Chet and his buddies from the sailing team.
More seriously, for the upwardly mobile conservatette who is looking to do her time in DC until a husband and suburban lifestyle can be secured, any apartment along the orange line in Arlington will be ideal, particularly in Ballston. You will be tempted to dismiss this advice because it's so clearly dripping with contempt, but you shouldn't: Georgetown is too expensive. Ballston/Clarendon/Courthouse is where she wants to be. My favorite bar, Galaxy Hut, is there! (don't tell her that)
Cala, I'm sorry to be such a jerk. I know you're a nice person, so I'm sure your sister is, too. But in a city that's overwhelmingly Democratic, the young Republican elite can often feel like an occupying force. They do their time and then get the fuck out of here. They contribute nothing to the city, hold most of its residents in contempt, and generally make life here worse. I hope that your sister doesn't fall in with that crowd.
LB's suggestion of Cato as a source for conservative drinking buddies is a good one, but comes with provisos. There are a ton of smart people affiliated with that institution. But their ideas are not at all consonant with those of the callow junior Republicans who dominate the city's social scene. Cato folks arrive at their political orientations because they live entirely in their own heads, not because their dads own dealerships. An emphasis on free thought, free drugs and often free love follows -- it can be pretty far out there. Unless you've read Hayek while stoned I don't think seeking them out by virtue of their ideological compatibility makes a ton of sense.
Unless you've read Hayek while stoned I don't think seeking them out by virtue of their ideological compatibility makes a ton of sense.
And if you haven't, you should get right on that.
"Alexandria" covers a multitude of sins. Where in Alexandria? Old Town is quite walkable, has Zipcars and is accessible to Metro. The West End not so much. South of the Beltway not at all. Most areas described as Alexandria, she'd need a car.
I believe that Angela Valdez wrote an article full of tips on dating DC Republicans.
Columbia Heights and Mt. Pleasant are popular with the young folk these days (I've lived in Columbia Heights for nine years now).
Old guy, that should read "Columbia Heights and Mt. Pleasant were popular with the young folk nine years ago".
I agree that wingnuttiness complicates things. For example, it might make it harder to get a group house with compatible people. And Takoma Park, which some people have mentioned, is stereotyped as the hippie neighborhood, which would be fine for lots of people but probably not a good choice for a Republican.
46: Thanks for assuming I was young folk when I moved in.
48: She's a weird variety of wingnut, but that's good to know. She has two friends moving down at the same time, though, so I'm not sure that would be likely to come up. (And hey, McArdle-types have to hang somewhere, right?)
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CNN is reporting that Ted Kennedy is in the hospital with stroke-like symptoms. He was in Hyannis and after going to a hospital on the Cape, he was medivac-ed to MGH.
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Sorry to burst anyone's bubble, but the young Republicans are taking a walk on the wild side these days.
OMG, that's funny. LNS is a great reminder that there are young people who actually talk about how gross the chicks they want to fuck are (as opposed to the well-bred types they want to marry) with no self-awareness at all.
They might want you as some sort of ironic experience. Most of these girls turned to hipsterism because preppy boys like you never took them to prom, so they may secretly harbor a desire to date an all-american boy.
54 seems pretty true the other way around, too. Lots of hipster boys will get their heads turned by beautimous all-American girls.
Good heavens. Who talks like that?
What about people who look at both beautimous hipster girls and beautimous all-American girls, get extremely interested for approximately 0.27 seconds, then swear viciously under their breath because they know that the twin barriers of artificial social division and crippling shyness guarantee that they'll never manage a conversation with those girls, let alone get busy with them?
I think that we should send out some of our hipster girls to infiltrate the LNS ranks and report back.
I think that we should send out some of our hipster girls to infiltrate the LNS ranks and report back.
Didn't Catherine have something of a regular feature along these lines, and didn't Becks link to several such reports? Hmmmm?
I don't remember catherine doing anything so cool.
That was a feature on wonkette, though.
Uh, Catherine, Wonkette, whatever.
Ogged's love for Wonkette was displaced onto Catherine after AM Cox stopped being Wonkette, and now he confuses them.
Angela Valdez did the definitive report on LNS, right?
A lot of those guys may gradually be realizing that their run in big time politics will be finished for good about eight months from now. Maybe they're trying to retrofit for the new DC. The ones without family money or real-world abilities are going to be SOL.
Also have a slight fetish for arm tats on them (gross i know, would NEVER marry one for the record).
See, that's the sort of thing that drives my sister crazy. She's a good Catholic girl who wants to find a good guy and projects 'wholesome', but she's at the weird Venn diagram intersection such that all the guys that are attracted to her are either wingnut assholes, or not looking for the same sort of relationship she is. She didn't go to college for her MRS degree, has too much self-respect to date an asshole, and reacts about as well as I do to condescension, which is what assholes like to do. (Yes, handsome. You're so smart, keep bragging.)
63: I, uh, I have a friend! who will be glad to hear that.
As I suggested at the beginning, have the Flophouse set her up with an appropriate liberal. She doesn't have to know about your nefarious plan, or that he's a liberal, or anything.
66: And everyone knows the left doesn't have any clean-cut, wholesome, woman-respecting 'good guys' among their ill-mannered, tattooed, filthy hippie ranks.
I would be perfect for your sister, Cala.
65: I was just trying to google angela valdez late night shots to see what that was about, and I repeatedly typed late night shits.
69: The word is "nice guys", Mr. Eelful, and they're hated by all decent people.
"Last fall, I got invited to Late Night Shots and joined, thinking it was a pretty hilarious website (especially if you ignore the blatant homophobic and racist commentary)."
Wow.