Oh my God, Becks. That's horrible. I have found that waxers, even at the high end, vary widely in quality and style. If it's something you're going to have done a lot or in sensitive areas, it really pays to find a friend who gets waxing done and find out who they've used and who's their favorite.
Holy crap, misery.
I wouldn't do anything until your underarms have a couple of days to heal. Then, assess.
I do feel compelled to note that if you were naturally hairless, like the ladies in the magazines, you wouldn't even have this problem.
See, if animal testing weren't banned, this would never happen.
When I started bleeding,
Holy crap! It's amusing the way you've recounted it here, but really not so funny, after all. You could end up with an infection or something (which isn't going to happen, I hasten to add, but still).
On the bright side, it did afford you the opportunity for some pretty sweet title-fu.
I wonder if waxing ability varies so widely because they don't get a great deal of training by watching other people do it, or by doing it with a lot of supervision first. Not many people would like to get their coochie waxed with someone barking "NO! THAT'S ALL WRONG!"
It isn't dental school. Couldn't they practice on themselves first? On the model of how cops are supposed to get tased, before they go around doing it to others.
Not many people would like to get their coochie waxed with someone barking "NO! THAT'S ALL WRONG!"
"THAT'S NOT EVEN THE RIGHT PLACE!"
Couldn't they practice on themselves first?
I like this idea.
AHHH KELLY CLARKSON!!!
What possible purpose would that serve, waxing-pedagogy-wise?
I think she makes your hair stand on end, for easier uprooting.
OT:
get tased
I made the mistake of picking up the paper NYT Magazine and found this awful consumer column extolling the wonders of the cute, pink or leopard-print versions of Taser. (Yes, really.) Not a whisper about the raging controversy over lethality or inappropriate use.
Holy cow, NYT, I get that it's a column about buying stuff, but have you no shame?
In 14 "consumer column" should be "re-drafted company press release." That column actually uses "the customer" as a serious subject of sentences.
The company has been fairly clever about drumming up nonscary publicity in recent months.
Having a Times reporter advertise for you hardly counts as clever.
See, if animal testing weren't banned, this would never happen.
Yeah well, rats are people too, you know.
You should have had three of your slacker buddies standing around during the waxing to crack jokes and give you encouragement. Then it would have been hilarious.
15: I can't believe I'm saying this, but I may need to see that movie.
I have noticed that if a post's title consists of a past participle, it's usually by Bex.
I may need to see that movie.
The quotations page at IMDB is so extensive, I feel as though I already have.
23 - No Obama here. I'll give you an Obama thread.
22 - I noticed. You didn't read the whole thing, did you? It sounded a little familiar anyway, I thought.
Oh, Becks. I'm so so sorry. However, hairless armpits are totally overrated.
You didn't read the whole thing, did you?
Ummmm....
this awful consumer column extolling the wonders of the cute, pink or leopard-print versions of Taser
When is the first documented taser mugging going to take place? It's going to be even more awesome if the mugger has a leopard-print taser.
There's already been at least one civilian dueling taser altercation in the news.
The pedicure was nice. For the second time in a row (at different establishments) I had a male pedicurist, which I'd never seen before DC.
I had a bad bikini wax recently--lots of bruising, but no actual breaking of skin. My husband saw the area, burst out laughing, and said, "uh, you want me to go to the salon and avenge your honor or something?"
But dude, this is the worst waxing story I've ever heard.
And I can't believe I'm writing this publicly, but it is a good idea to trim your body hair to less than an inch if it's all winter-pelt hairy. Leg hair is never a problem, but when the hair of the coochie and armpit hair get long, it's very difficult for the waxer to isolate small, workable sections. You end up waxing up too much real estate (and you wax it too high on the hair), and the science just falls apart. It becomes less of a hair removal situation and more a "let's use your hair to remove entire sections of your epidermis" situation.
And for more fabulous bikini waxing recommendations, please consult the Berkeley Parents Network. No, really .
Waxing sounds horribly unpleasant when it goes well. I can't imagine.
Becks, don't use antiperspirant for a few days. It hurts like a mofo on broken skin, which clearly you have. As an Asian woman my nerve endings have been too damaged on my underarms to feel the pain of tweezing, but from what I can recall of the first time I did that---owwww. Poor you. Let them heal. Use baby powder.
I'm sorry you had such a bad experience! I am too chicken to ever let hot wax near my girly bits, and now I vow NEVER to let hot wax get anywhere near my body at all. I hear that when you are pregnant, you can't shave your legs because of the belly getting in the way. Whatev. I will stay hairy, and my husband can deal.
I told w-lfs-n, who is also an epistolary geek, that I stopped using my wax seal because I dripped hot wax on my thigh (never wear shorts!) once and got, I swear, a 3rd, or 2nd degree burn. Never again. I will be like one of those kids who has to use velcro because he can't tie his shoelaces, and use sticker seals.
Also, where is Witt?! I wish I had her email. I am late on the Jezebel wagon, and found yet another store I can't shop at from this old article. I wanted her commiseration and sympathy, but also feel like a total tool for having ever bought into Anthropologie's bourgie boho (bobo?) schtick. Ugh, I am such a sucker. The stuff doesn't even look good on me.Especially since their store practices are just as bad as Abercrombie's!
33 - You could have your husband shave your legs. That could be hot. Or a bloody mess. Depends on your husband.
You could shave your husband's head. It's fun!
Oh. My. Fucking. God. Becks, that sounds truly, truly awful. Not that I needed any further reason to entrench my beliefs, but I am so never getting my armpits waxed ever.
I don't think your armpits are going to scab, though. It seems that scabs are less likely to form in very sensitive/potentially moist areas. Even so, I would abstain from anti-persp and, uh, give them a break.
I'm rather fond of my armpit hair.
You could have your husband shave your legs.
This is the best idea.
Isn't this the sort of thing feminists are supposed to be against?
Yikes, Belle, that article is something:
Almost any man who worked the store and was not white was assigned to the stockroom or put on the "loss prevention" team which meant that he stood at the front of the store, looking nonwhite (and therefore extra-aware of the shoplifting prowess of fellow nonwhites)
As an Asian woman my nerve endings have been too damaged on my underarms to feel the pain of tweezing
?
I was going to ask about that, too, Sir Kraab.
I do still feel a bit guilty every time I shave my legs. But then the sheets feel extra-smooth and I rationalise it once again! It's not as though my honey notices.
You could have your husband shave your legs. That could be hot.
Indeed. (How quickly we forget, and do not return to the archives.)
Husband shaving legs is a good idea. He can't be that bad at it, if also he shaves his face. Right?
I told my boyfriend that I will do whatever I want, but am pleased to stay groomed and pretty for him--because it is one of the things I want to do. But if he ever told me NOT to wear makeup or told me I HAD to shave my legs, I would rebel. He of course says that he infinitely prefers me to have shaved legs, but "go ahead, go Eastern European." This will be tested when I can't shave my legs due to pregnancy.
44: Asians have invented all sorts of painful ways to remove hair (threading, sugaring, plucking), and plucking is most common among the Vietnamese for the armpit region.
My sister actually plucks her bikini line. No joke. I'm too much of a wuss to ever try that. But I sucked it up and started plucking my armpits around 15, and 12 years later--no pain. Seriously, you do it often enough, it doesn't hurt anymore, because you've damaged the follicle nerve receptor or something.
From what I've heard, having hairy legs is the least of one's worries during late-stage pregnancy. My sisters gave me graphic explanations for how they got through boxes and boxes of panty liners towards the end. Ew.
Asians have invented all sorts of painful ways to remove hair
I don't know whether it's limited to one ethnicity, but boy was I shocked to see the arm-hair razors and whatnot when I went to the Japanese grocery store. Holy moly.
47: I am not going to read the archived comments to that, at this time.
A guy can shave his face, but he's not going to be at a good angle to do anything but carve the hell out of your legs.
Your loss, parsimon. It's a good thread. Mr. B is in there! And matt weiner (PBUH) and ttaM before he reversed himself!
It would if you read the thread. Mostly.
51: Yeah. Sigh. Also, lots of whitener products. Those freak me out. But again, I look like a peasant according to mom.
Not limited to one ethnicity, no. I do recall this being something I was able to bond over with my Persian friends. I dunno why there are so many hair removal products and methods in the stores, when by all accounts most of my siblings have very fair hair (even our eyebrows) on our arms and legs. I would compare myself to other Asian women, except that they also seem hairless, either by design or accident. Either the methods work well, or there's been a cottage industry built around a non-existent problem.
If I can shave standing up, how is it possible a guy can't shave your legs if you're reclined in a bathtub with a leg propped up? Or even if you are standing up, can't he just do the same? Even if he shaves with the grain, which is not how I do it.
38, 40: I, too, am rather fond of your armpit hair.
there's been a cottage industry built around a non-existent problem
For women? That's crazy talk!
Oh, 55 to 53.
54: At this time, at this time.
That thread was also before Bostoniangirl began capitalizing her name.
There seem to be a lot of threads on body hair.
There seem to be a lot of threads on body hair sex.
Fixed.
There seem to be a lot of threads on body hair.
On a blog run by an Iranian? Shocking.
It's almost like nobody here ever has sex, which I know is not correct, so I really don't get it. I just don't.
I never have sex, and that's enough.
But you have your standards, Ben, and that's almost as good.
Why don't we take off our body hair using fire? That would be awesome.
Although even more troubling if you had a crappy technician.
How would that work, exactly? Plus, stinky.
Although, I have to say, having gotten my face too close to a fire more than once, wiping off your own eyebrows after they've turned to ash is actually pretty cool. (Not my whole eyebrows.)
Fire is a common method for removing the hair from a slaughtered pig.
First, we tie up Ogged. Then, we put a big pile of straw on him...
72: How would that work, exactly?
YouTube has the answer(s). I like this one.
75: Everyone listen to ogged, he has the conch.
76: So, seriously, what is wrong with young men?
78: They know that some day they will be old men.
You're missing out, Sir Kraab. Seriously, it's a lot of fun.
I recommend Quick Start.
Has anyone here tried No!No! It's expensive, but it sounds cool.
Very sorry to hear about the hurty ripped-off-ness.
Is this hair-removal thing something that women do in anticipation of men looking at them? Or other women looking at them? Or is the relevant gaze not gendered in any particular way? Or is the whole gaze thing kind of a red herring here?
Because if it's the first of these, it may be socially beneficial for me to go around wearing a metaphorical "Don't do painful things to look hot to my gender!" T-shirt.
50?? I have no idea what your sisters might have been talking about, JM. Not that late pregnancy doesn't suck, mind.
82: It's about this thing called "social norms," Neil.
re: 48
He of course says that he infinitely prefers me to have shaved legs, but "go ahead, go Eastern European."
What's funny about that is how the stereotype gets it soe completely wrong. Actual Eastern European women are from a planet with a whole other higher level of personal grooming. Take some British/American girls to Prague, go to a few clubs where actual Czechs go [not touristy places], and see how quickly they get to feeling really slobby and inadequate.
Hangover from old Cold War stereotypes, innit.
in fairness, Eastern Europe's a big place and not all of it is like former Czechoslovakia; I suspect that "Eastern European" here might mean "East German".
re: 88
Yeah, I know the stereotypes. East German female shot-putters, and the like.
I was just commenting [amused, mostly] on how stereotypes date, and long outlive any underlying 'facts' that originally grounded them.
Take some British/American girls to Prague, go to a few clubs where actual Czechs go [not touristy places] anybody who isn't British or American goes, and see how quickly they get to feeling really slobby and inadequate.
Fixed.
becks, I'm so, so sorry. that fucking sucks.
Actual Eastern European women are from a planet with a whole other higher level of personal grooming.
Indeed. Eastern Europe was way ahead of the curve on the hairless pudenda look for adult women. I have previously hypothesized that Hungarian porn was the Ur-Quelle of the shaved twat trend.
FWIW, I think Becks could totally rock the Scandinavian unshaved pits look. Maybe a little peroxide now and again to keep the hair color close to the tone of the skin.
The problem is that most American men have only seen body hair on women who are unsexy for other reasons, e.g. hirstute East German shotputters, smelly hippies, or feminists making a "statement". Once you become familiar with "normal" attractive women unselfconsciously leaving their bodies in a natural state, you can lose the unerotic associations.
Short of a national education program to acquaint the American public with the sight throngs of hairy legged nordics on the beaches of the Balearic islands, I suggest that one of the cutting edge, up-and-coming designers do a show with ungroomed models as a way to create "impact" and "buzz". Then it will become a trend! Hell, they sold us on emaciation and heroin chic; a little body hair doesn't seem like much of a stretch.
82, 85: Social norms, yes. Also that smooth feeling of hairlessness. Also (I theorize, for me anyway) a little of the same type of OCD that makes picking at loose wallpaper so irresistible. Specific to waxing, maybe a little masochism. There's no one reason, I don't think.
Before I get pilloried here, let me clarify that I was attributing the belief that "feminists making a 'statement'" are unsexy to the average man, not subscribing to it myself.
94 was me. Also, I advocate the do-it-yourself at home waxing. Though, caution is advised with that microwave stuff -- dripped some overheated wax on my hand once and got a nasty burn. Which, you know, then you have to pull the cooled wax off of at some point.
96: It helps if you can squirrel away some Vicodin or Percocet for such occasions. Or so I have heard, anyway.
I used to date a guy who shaved his armpits, and it took me eons to figure it out. 'Something's different here... but what?!'
After I figured it out, of course, every time he took his shirt off, all I could think was, 'really?!'
72 my sister did that once when she was 5-6
it was not fire, a candle and not the whole brow too
i remember i once cut her hair to the roots from the top of her head when we were playing hairdressers, was very surprised to see the bare scalp, b/c it did not supposed to look like that
good thing she couldn't see that place in the mirror and was not that upset
44: Asians have invented all sorts of painful ways to remove hair (threading, sugaring, plucking), and plucking is most common among the Vietnamese for the armpit region.
Threading is awesome. It's faster than waxing and can be more precise. I think it hurts less.
Unfortunately there are only one or two places in Boston to get it done. I found a nursing student whose mother made her learn on family trips to India who's very good.
I've thought about getting my bikini line waxed, and there are a couple of places that I've heard are good, but one of the people there left, so I don't know what it's like. It hurts, but shaving there (which is what I do) is likely to lead to ingrown hairs.
I am not ready to have my butt hole waxed, and I actually saw a case report on pubmed of someone who had a terrible infection from getting a full Brazilian.
97: Vicodin makes me desperately want to vomit.
the belief that "feminists making a 'statement'" are unsexy to the average man
You get into a chicken and egg argument here. Men found women perfectly sexy as they come for tens of thousands of years, but now you can assert as conventional wisdom that average men demand depilation. Well, whose dumb idea was that? And is it even true? Does anybody ask around?
I have to say I find shaven vulvas fairly squicky because if it's done for the benefit of men, I see faux-paedophilia issues. OTOH, somebody here once said that it made sex much better for the woman, in which case it's got to be a good idea. But I remain to be convinced that this is really why it's become fashionable.
That really sucks, Becks. Don't give up on the idea of waxing, though; if it's done right, it's not that painful and is over quickly.
Since I've tried everything, a ranking of hair removal methods: threading (only done my face; less painful and more precise than waxing for brows and no mess), salon waxing (with auxiliary plucking), laser (takes too long, only partially effective, but fairly permanent), Magic Shaving Powder (good for delicate areas, but messy), regular shaving, home sugaring/waxing, home plucking. That Nads infomercial stuff is probably the least evil home strip method.
103: they have infomercials about removing hair from your nads? American mass culture is heading in a weirder direction than I thought, faster than I thought.
104: I think that nads, a particular brand of a sugaring product comes from Australia.
Aussies cutting to the chase as usual. I'm surprised they get away with the name in America.
What, so this nad-depilating stuff is an already successful product in Australia being marketed to the Americans? Australian culture is moving in a weirder, etc etc.
My wonderful new swimsuit has low enough hips that I don't need to worry about pubic depiliation. I would rather wear 1930s-style little shorts than go through that shit.
Men found women perfectly sexy as they come for tens of thousands of years, but now you can assert as conventional wisdom that average men demand depilation. Well, whose dumb idea was that? And is it even true? Does anybody ask around?
You misread me, OFE. I assert that the average American man expects to see depilation (of the pits and legs, though demographic aging seems destined to add the pudenda to the list), and that he associates undepilated legs and pits with various things he finds unerotic, one of which is vocal feminism.
No, I don't have any data to support this, but I would confidently wager that public opinion surveys would support my claim.
Whose dumb ideas was that? Dunno. Seems silly and patriarchal enough to me. That said, it took a fair amount of resocialization for me to come around to that viewpoint.
Re-read the last paragraph of 93 and you will see that I advocate measures to roll back the depilation trend and make natural hair a mainstream taste.
American mass culture is heading in a weirder direction than I thought, faster than I thought.
The coal minor is a traditionalist who likes things to stay the same and does not seek out new experiences. People still remember the riots of ought six, which began when a lunch room employee decided to cut the men's sandwiches diagonally rather than horizontally.
Men found women perfectly sexy as they come for tens of thousands of years, but now you can assert as conventional wisdom that average men demand depilation.
I don't know what to say to this beyond 'humans, go figure.' Beauty standards aren't ordained on high, obviously, but that doesn't mean that modern beauty standards can't be different from what was fashionable on Stone Tools Runway, or that someone brought up to find one feature beautiful might associate the lack of that feature with some other negative trait.
109: Re-read the last paragraph of 93 and you will see that I advocate measures to roll back the depilation trend and make natural hair a mainstream taste.
But what moneyed interest would profit from such a campaign? Sheesh, academics.
But what moneyed interest would profit from such a campaign? Sheesh, academics.
No imagination, JPS! 1 is a partial answer. Specialist underarm colours (exactly the same chemicals as used for head hair, but marketed in a different shaped dispenser). Ditto pubic colours. Curling, straightening, incorporating real hair into tat designs. Shit, there's a huge new market there, completely untapped.
But what moneyed interest would profit from such a campaign? Sheesh, academics.
You insult me, JRoth! The only thing I have in common with an academic is the amount of time I spend posting blog comments!
The thought of how some moneyed interest could profit from hairy legs was the origin of my suggestion that an edgy fashion designer should be the innovator. Others would imitate the look to profit from the halo effect, fashion magazine publishers would run features on it (Vogue: "The Herstute Look"; Glamour:: "The Hair and Now"; Cosmopolitan: "Leg Hair: The New Aphrodesiac to Drive Him Wild").
New fashions would have to emerge to accomodate and show off the hairy appendages and recesses. New products would emerge to keep underarm hair soft, silky, and appropriately tinted. A whole new category of underarm deoderant would have to be invented that doesn't leave unsightly white streaks on the underarm hair.
The more I think about it, the more mysterious it is that no one has considered this as a business opportunity.
A whole new category of underarm deoderant would have to be invented that doesn't leave unsightly white streaks on the underarm hair.
Dr. Haushcka makes a lovely, lovely floral-scented one.
JM, Dr. Haushka products are obscenely expensive. I have a jar of their lip balm that a rep gave me; it's $8 for .14 oz. I like it and keep it by my bedside for occasional treatment, but I like kiehls a lot too (more depending on teh situation) and will stick with that.
The new Rose Day cream light is not that great.
Trader Joe's was out of their deodorant, so now I'm looking for an alternative and am not sure what to buy. I don't want an antiperspirant.
Tom's of Maine makes a nice deodorant, BG. (It might not be a bad idea for Becks the next couple of days, too, as it's a little less irritating than regular deodorant.)
115: You insult me, JRoth!
Yeah, JRoth, as you can see, you have no imagination, insulting KR along the way, plenty of money to be made off of body hair. Sheesh, typical of a small-minded 'burgher.
Dr. Haushka products are obscenely expensive.
I know. But I really like the way the deodorant smells!
120: Oops, sorry for the misattribution, JP.
I think JR is probably owed the apology....
Ow ow ow. No way should the salon have let somebody so inexperienced go near your sensitive bits. The waxer should have practiced on the other staff members first, and their first customer should only have been, say, a half leg wax (easiest and least painful area). Underarms are actually pretty sensitive, IME equivalent to the upper bikini line.
Re special beauty products - there is that "Betty" stuff for collar and cuffs issues and IIRC, the characters in Marian Keyes last-but-one book are careful to use conditioner on the hair if expecting a night of passion.
Ow! Ow! Ow! Ow!
I tried plucking a few of my underarm hairs once, kind of testing it out to see if plucking or waxing would be an option, and the immediate and resounding answer was NO.
Repetition of emir's ows completely unintentional!
My representatives will be calling later to remove the DRM-non-complaint parts of your brain. You will not remember any pain.
You will not remember any pain.
Still, now I'm all worried that I'm gonna let out an unintentional 'ow' when they put in the brain sucking device.
I would rather wear 1930s-style little shorts than go through that shit.
And we're back to the board shorts and tankini.
131: Word. I got hipster bikini bottoms. Trimming + shaving is enough. Being "groomed" is enough for me as I don't care about social norms about the bikini line if no one else is going to see that but my boyfriend or me. Part of why it is so awesome being in a crunchy granola place is that no one here ever talks obssessively about grooming the nether regions. I don't miss being in Los Angeles.
Although my boyfriend and I went to a clothing optional hot springs retreat in Calistoga, and it was hi-larious the variety in male and female junk. And the women were either au naturel or super groomed. The super groomed looked weird to me, actually, especially when it was coming in different shapes, like how poodles are groomed.
Of course, we were tools and kept on our bathing suits.
hirstute
Herstute
It's "hirsute".
Herstute
You got me on the superfluous "t", but "her" was meant as a joke about bad puns in magazine headlines. Maybe I should have added a hyphen to make it clear.
I understood that, Knecht. Give a guy some credit.
I quoted them both to demonstrate that the first time it wasn't a typo, but a genuine misapprehension regarding the correct spelling.
You need to find yourself a good Brazilian place.
I think that I have mentioned before that a Brazilian shop owner tried to convince me to get a Brazilian.
I declined. But I did let her lasor my back since it was free. I didn't really care about the hair, but it was free so I figured why not.
Quick, w-lfs-n, point out the spelling error in 136!
Knecht:
Ben needs raw meat. If we don't give it to him, he feels neglected.
138: That's why you didn't use "Brasilian" I assume.
Heh, I caught the spelling error in 136, but assumed it was the spelling of a specifically branded procedure, sort of like Lasik.
JP:
Geez. Do I have to explain everything to you?!?! I included a "r" after the B.
138: Ben needs raw meat. If we don't give it to him, he feels neglected
And perish the thought that "Ben w-lfs-n, the Unfogged grammar Nazi" became merely "Ben w-lfs-n, an Unfogged grammar Nazi." At least Screamin' Jay Hawkins was dead when it happened to him.
New fashions would have to emerge to accomodate and show off the hairy appendages and recesses. New products would emerge to keep underarm hair soft, silky, and appropriately tinted. A whole new category of underarm deoderant would have to be invented that doesn't leave unsightly white streaks on the underarm hair.
I can't remember the author or the title, but there was a science fiction story of the 30's involving this idea. The end of the story reveals (of course) a future society where thick, shiny, expensively groomed fur is the conventional standard of beauty.
Harrison Ford feels your pain, Becks.
Gack! My first and last salon waxing experience was similar, but not as bad. She was only doing the lower half of my legs, but she just could not get more than 25% of the covered hair off with each strip. She went over the same area over and over. And over and over. It was insane.
Finally she started plucking. It was a like a slow-moving scorpion was stinging me repeatedly on the backs of my calves. Several times her manager came back to check on the progress, and they chatted in an Asian language I didn't recognize. I imagined she was saying "This lady covered in hair like warthog. Wax cannot conquer it. Tweezers getting bent, please bring spare."
I told her to stop before she finished, because it had been going on for an hour and I still had about 50% of my original hair in place. I paid for the whole thing, though, and tipped her just because I felt guilty for how much time she'd spent.
I told her to stop before she finished, because it had been going on for an hour and I still had about 50% of my original hair in place. I paid for the whole thing, though, and tipped her just because I felt guilty for how much time she'd spent.
Ugh, I have been in this position. My sister in warthoggery!
"Perish the thought" might serve well as an example of subjunctives as main verbs.
7:
Not many people would like to get their coochie waxed with someone barking "NO! THAT'S ALL WRONG!"
You coulda stopped at "coochie waxed."
Once again I am thankful I am not female. A ball to the crotch every now and then is a small price to pay in order to get out of waxing my sensitive areas.
93:
Short of a national education program to acquaint the American public with the sight throngs of hairy legged nordics on the beaches of the Balearic islands,
Don't throw that idea away so quickly. I'm game to learn something new. For the sake of education. Of course.
It's really gross when you get a Brazilian and they decide to "clean up" by pulling over the big magnifying mirror so they can individually tweeze every single tiny leftover hair on the entire pudendum. All I can think in that situation is "Has anyone ever spent this much attention on my crotch? No, not one. No, not one."
i really don't get why i wrote my cherished childhood memory in the body hair removal thread
i blame ogged's burnt brow
For someone who has been gone awhile I must say that while this comment section has been painfully funny to read it has also been very useful at determining the gender of some of the commenters. I think.
Still I'm not ready to assume anything just yet.
150: While I like attention as much as the next girl, I can't say I'd want that much attention to any part of my body.
Becks, you should see if that spa is registered with the BBB and then make a formal compliant. That new rookie should have known, FROM SCHOOL, how to friggin' wax someone. Her boss should have been with her the entire time. That really sucks. At least she didn't do a Brazilian on you first. THAT would've sucked.
"Perish the thought" might serve well as an example of subjunctives as main verbs.
Or "Far be it from me."
85: I get that, but I'm wondering what these social norms are grounded in, if anything at all.
Often when we have norms, we have them for a good reason. For example, there's a norm that I ought not pick my nose in public, both for sanitary reasons and to keep from grossing everybody out. And various other norms exist for crappy reasons, like because a certain arrangement satisfies powerful interests. I'm trying to figure out how to classify the hair-removal one.
"No reason at all" is, of course, a possible answer.
My sister in warthoggery!
Come, let us polish our tusks together! My, you have the most delicate hooves.
It's really gross when you get a Brazilian and they decide to "clean up" by pulling over the big magnifying mirror so they can individually tweeze every single tiny leftover hair on the entire pudendum.
Do they have one of those harsh lights on a flexible arm as well? You might as well hand them a speculum and a swab.
156:
Why the hair-removal norm?
I'm no authority but it sure appears to me that Americans are sold on many of our 'beauty' and 'attractiveness norms' based on who can make money off them.
I'm thinking soap, shampoo, razors, perfumes and cologne, deordorants and cosmetics.
In Kenya where some people are too poor for soap they bathe in plain water (a sponge bath) twice a day and they really don't smell.
Axe spray has proven what we have already known - if you really want to sell something to guys simply say "The way to get females is to use this."
The same seems to be true the other way around.
"Deordorants" are used to disarm any ordinances a person may have of course.
"Has anyone ever spent this much attention on my crotch? No, not one. No, not one."
You're dating the wrong guys. Hopefully the new boyfriend will fix this problem.
85: I get that, but I'm wondering what these social norms are grounded in, if anything at all.
This isn't really mysterious, is it? Men tend to emphasize those secondary sexual characteristics that set them apart from women, and women tend to emphasize those secondary sexual characteristics that set them apart from men. So men, being more muscular, pump iron, and women, being less hairy, remove their hair. Etc.
Men found women perfectly sexy as they come for tens of thousands of years, but now you can assert as conventional wisdom that average men demand depilation.
Those women of earlier millennia would have been even sexier, though, if they elongated their neck bones or earlobes, or tattooed their faces, or broke their foot bones, to make them even more feminine.
Ouch. Ouch ouch ouch. Your story reminds me of once when I gave blood and the phlebotomist managed to wreck two veins before I gave up and walked out.
Me, I shave my face about five times a year. If I shave more than three times in a row during the hot months (Florida: April through November) I get heat rash under my chin.
162. Men tend to emphasize those secondary sexual characteristics that set them apart from women... So why do I see these billboards off the Interstate advertising hair removal for men, showing a guy with a depilated chest (ouch ouch ouch) and a smiling babe hanging off of him?
162: This is obviously tongue-in-cheek, right?
162
"... So men, being more muscular, pump iron, and women, being less hairy, remove their hair. Etc."
So that's why women shave their heads.
Gee, you guys got me. Come on, this is basic stuff, no?
Shaven-headed women are, or can be, hot.
Once again I am thankful I am not female. A ball to the crotch every now and then is a small price to pay in order to get out of waxing my sensitive areas.
Not so fast, Trippy.
/apostropher
Jeepers, it is basic stuff. Women depilate because it makes them appear more like children, which is desired because it signals fecundity and a malleable nature. It's become something registered as sexy (such that women who don't do it are unsexy, per KR) because it's so prevalent, highly marketed as requisite to beauty, because of peer pressure upon males as well as females, and all that jazz.
Adjust 171 to acknowledge the fact that pre-pubescent girls actually aren't of child-bearing age.
171
"Women depilate because ..."
My theory is because they are nuts.
Back on the veldt (and in the Utah basin), you want to catch the females when they're young and bind them with a contract before they get to running-around age. That way you'll ensure that at least the first few children will be yours.
I don't know what it means that Shearer and I have similar attitudes toward body hair.
176: It means you should mate.
SHEARER ROBOT DOES NOT MATE. SHEARER ROBOT WILL CONSIDER EXCHANGING SERIAL COMMUNICATION ON RELATIVE UTILITY OF MATING FUNCTION IF BANDWIDTH PROVES ADEQUATE
I thought Shearer was married, and I know Jackmormon's dating. Not that they shouldn't mate, of course. Body hair preferences are a serious thing.
173: I have no idea, will, no idea. With respect to shaving the face, I hear that beardedness is considered to be uncivilized, and that beards are hot/itchy in the experience of some.
A bearded man is easier to kill. Plain and simple. It's fashion that's driven by survival.
Jackmormon says that but does she date a hairy man or a hairless man?
such that women who don't do it are unsexy, per KR
Please, please, respect the is-ought distinction here. KR does not believe unshaven bodies to be perforce unsexy. I personally am pretty indifferent to body hair; I've dated unshaven women whom I found quite sexy, and not despite their hair, but in part because of it.
As a swimmer, I was around women who couldnt shave during the season and men who shaved at the end of the season.
Leg hair on women doesnt really bother me.
I was around women who couldnt shave during the season
Really? Why not?
Shaved men bother me much more than hairy women. ("Bother" may not be the right word.)
185: don't you know any swimmers, Sifu?
So that they had something to shave when they got to the end of the season.
"And Jacob said to Rebekah his mother, 'Behold, Esau my brother is an hairy man, and I am an smooth man'".
Genesis 27:11
185: don't you know any swimmers, Sifu?
I guess I don't understand why swimmers would have a different practice according to gender either.
189: so their times would be better, I guess?
I think it's ridiculous to do any kind of evo-psych reading on things like depilation. It's just fashion, and debates about why this or that way is more respectful of women or whatever have been raging for hundreds of years.
I like the novelty of being able to do stuff with my pudenda hair or not. It's like growing a beard, trimming it, shaving it to a mustache, keeping it hairless; it's just fun, not a big ideological problem for me unless I'm under orders to do this or that thing from a partner. I've never really found an ideal state for it.
Even leg hair and armpit hair---I don't like the way they feel when they're totally grown in, but I'm not super-careful about keeping them shaved down unless I have romantic plans, and even then it's more for me than for my partner.
Yeah, I still don't get the women swimmers thing. Male swimmers shave the legs to reduce drag. But female swimmers don't shave them because different laws of physics apply to them and their leg hair actually reduces drag?
Sorry, don't mean to be obtuse.
194: huh! Wild. What a weird sport you people enjoy.
Oh, I don't swim. I just know people.
195: neither male nor female swimmers shaves until the end of the season, at which point they both do.
I dont pay:
The practice isnt different according to gender. Both keep the hair until the end of the season, then they shave it off.
Jackmormon says that but does she date a hairy man or a hairless man?
He is currently sporting the Ahmadinejad beard, pretty much, and has just the perfect amount of chest hair.
194 is officially my "what I learned today." Thanks.
202: indeed!
I would have learned other things, if soup were around for me to bug him.
What is the perfect amount? I enjoy a wide range, there.
204: one would assume you aren't Jackmormon, though.
But could we come up with a pithy rule of thumb along the lines of "enough to fill a champagne glass"?
What is the perfect amount of chest hair? Lessee. A furriness directly between the nipples, so that the gold medallion has something to nestle in, and a happy trail. Perhaps a bit more dusting here and there, but not too much!
207: and the inter-navel-pube railway?
I prefer to think of it as a commuter line.
More than a mouthful is wasted.
What AWB means is that she likes a gradient of increasing hairiness when going from left to right.
But, women are agreed that ear hair is bad, right?
My default position is that ew, ear hair, gross, but then I may be persuadable as I age. God, I doubt it, but never say never!
God, I doubt it, but never say never!
At least, not loud enough that they can hear you, with that fucking forest in their ears.
I like the novelty of being able to do stuff with my pudenda hair or not. It's like growing a beard, trimming it, shaving it to a mustache, keeping it hairless;
That made me laugh. I'm thinking about getting a perm and growing my bangs out.
216: blond surfer poonstache, c'mon.
Let's just pretend I already have one.
AWB:
no fair trying to jump start AWB porn fantasies. I'm telling BR!
Wouldn't it be rather difficult to grow a pubic Fu Manchu? And whydoes pubic hair stop growing after however many milimeters? Is it because of underwear constriction and thighs rubbing together?
222: there's a lot you should be telling BR.
BR: hey, I'm down with the foursome. I just want you informed.
Mine seems not to stop growing, and therefore requires trimming. Plus, it's curly, so I suppose my Fu Manchu lie is evident.
And whydoes pubic hair stop growing after however many milimeters?
Presumably for the same reasons that arm, leg, armpit, and eyebrow hairs stop growing after however many etc.
BR: hey, I'm down with the foursome. I just want you informed.
She does like an excellent pair of eye brows!
AWB:
Next Unfogged DCon: $100 to any woman who shows up with a Foo Man Chu!
||
I'm pretty sure the Red Dawn thread is dead, but the "egregious plot flaw" issue in Casablanca came up today at "Altercation." Funny.
|>
All human hair seems to follow a three phase cycle: growth (anagen), rest and shedding. The times in each of these phases varies for hair on different parts of the body. It appears that all hair spends most of its time growing, but in "short hair areas" it goes through the cycle more rapidly, limiting its length.
Hair follicles on different parts of the body produce hairs of different lengths by staying in anagen for varying periods of time. Scalp follicles remain in anagen for many years and can produce hair fibers over one meter in length. Hair follicles on the body, which generate shorter hairs, are in anagen for only a matter of weeks or months. The hairs that appear to "know" to grow back after being trimmed just happen to be in anagen when you cut them
How great it is to get older as a guy:
To the consternation of most men, later in life, follicles in the nose and ear become sensitive to testosterone and also enlarge, thus yielding large hairs. Paradoxically, hair follicles on the scalp of genetically predisposed men respond in the opposite manner: they miniaturize and spend less time in anagen, which leads to baldness.
Come on, this is basic stuff, no?
Members of both sexes strive to look like what is considered perfection for their sex, and the sexes are often defined in opposition to each other. But what doesn't follow from that is that 'perfection' corresponds to amplifying the natural differences between the sexes in most fashion.
The sexes are only rarely defined in opposition to one another. That is, what is associated with the female will be avoided by men until fashion begins to associate "feminine" attributes with male beauty, and then the pendulum swings again. This is made even more complex by how heteros coöpt homosexual fashions, which often begin as parodies of either the opposite or one's own gender. (70's hypermasculinity was a straight fashion, then a gay one, the Sex and the City women wearing lesbian-chic stuff like do-rags and whatnot) All I'm saying is, fashion isn't natural. High heels were once a man thing, and now they're a woman thing. Depilation is sometimes a woman thing, sometimes a man thing. I never would have guessed in 1995 that male models of 2005 would be pretty little sissyboys with 27-inch waists. And they'll go out of fashion, too. Fashion is a response to fashion, not to gender or sexual desire or any of that, though it affects gender-performance and sexual desire. It's aesthetic. But like all aesthetic possibilities, it has deep effects on how we view one another as people.
231: Any chance for nose and ear hair coming around in the male fashion cycle sometime in the next 10-20 years? Just asking for this guy I know.
Aging, unfortunately, never seems to be in style.
But also, fashion is very regional. I used to work with a couple of Staten Island chicks at the spa who would go on and on about how disgusting their boyfriends were because they had hairy ahms. One chick expounded at length upon the virtues of an entirely hairless man's forearm. "I like 'im to be, y'know, smoooooth." I cracked up.
"Like, you're into chicks? That's cool."
"No, like a man's ahm; it should be smooth, and tan. Like mine!"
Ha! Staten Islanders are so fucking weird. Also, apparently boys from Jersey tend to slick their hair back with lots of gel and shave their balls. Don't ask me how I know this. (It's not first-hand knowledge.) And if they don't, they look faggy to other NJ boys, which is hilarious because in NYC, dudes with overly fastidious hair-care-and-removal systems are considered... pretty faggy.
Even between Queens and Brooklyn, fashions like that are really hard to read. I'll often make guesses about students in the other borough based on their grooming, and later find out I'm dead wrong. What signifies "masculine" and "feminine" just varies so widely from place to place that it's hard to keep track.
Fashion is a response to fashion, not to gender or sexual desire or any of that, though it affects gender-performance and sexual desire. It's aesthetic. But like all aesthetic possibilities, it has deep effects on how we view one another as people.
Weird. Do none of these effects feed back into comsumers' tastes and designer's products? Is fashion supposed to be a transcendental element in history?
Do I think fashion designers are really in tune with the sexual zeitgeist as their source of inspiration? No, I don't. I don't think they think for a moment about what men want from women's bodies or vice versa.
198, 200: why the end of the season? Or do I just not know what a season is, because I never played sports (because my parents were paranoid I'd get hurt or slack off in my studies)?
So does that mean you swim with hairy legs, arms, chest, etc., and then when you are done with swimming (the "end of the season") you wax it off? Isn't the point to swim hairless, so why don't you wax/shave at the beginning of the season?
boys from Jersey tend to slick their hair back with lots of gel and shave their balls
Yeah, and the whole state looks like the turnpike.
(I know AWB isn't seriously claiming this, but I'm powerless in the face of my home-state protectiveness.)
My guess is that end of the season means "the really important race." You practice all season with the extra drag from body hair, and then get a burst of speed when it matters from the end-of-season shave. But I don't actually know.
So when an Ogged shaves, he gains more than a normal person would.
So when an Ogged shaves, he gains more than a normal person would
The weight loss alone is good for a tenth of a second per lap.
My guess is that end of the season means "the really important race."
I see; I was taking it to mean "when the season's over," implying shaving would be some sort of impediment. And the syntax implied a difference between male & female swimmers, at least in what they were aiming at.
Some years ago I remember reading the published diaries of top American female cyclists in Velo News, and how much they struggled to control the development that followed from training, which thickened the thighs and gluteals. They tried to eat very carefully, but of course there was a tradeoff with strength and energy.
Swimming has two basic seasons. Long course (50 meters) generally ends in August. Short court (25 yd pools) generally ends in March.
A male swimmer might shave down for their conference meet (February) and then wear panty hose in the pool until they go to Nationals where they would shave again.
Dancers and volleyball players really want muscular legs. A lot of jockish guys dislike jockish ladies. Fear of being outperformed is only part of it.