I consider myself a Muslim in some sense
This is an extremely culturally white thing to say, my brother.
You're going to be so surprised when I behead you.
With my dying thought I will mock your shoes, al-Honkey.
So will Florida Jews get the same treatment as WV hicks?
/troll
So will Florida Jews get the same treatment as WV hicks?
If only.
I think there was an "assimilated" character like Ogged in the last season of 24. If only Jack Bauer had tortured him in time.
Despite my parents not being very religious (father) or outright atheistic (mother), I consider myself Jewish in some sense. (And we know all about Catholics and their abominable Church.)
The truth of these things has no bearing on whether Obama considers himself Muslim "in some sense", or whether the sense in which he might or might not consider himself Muslim has fuck all to do with anything.
7.2: I'm not sure that's true; surely, regardless of Obama's feelings towards Islam as a religion, his background makes him more empathetic to Muslims than even a fairly open-minded American who doesn't know any Muslims personally.
You've all seen this, right?
Obama's gonna make you crackers sit at the back of the bus!
Obama's gonna make you crackers sit at the back of the bus!
Well, yeah. Why do you think black voter registration and turnout by blacks has been so high this year? It's not because of his health care plan.
My experience is that older blacks tend to be towards the front of the bus, but the younger ones (you know, the hip-hoppers - those ones) sit in the back.
Those who are ignorant of history, etc.
his background makes him more empathetic to Muslims
So you're saying the flag pin burns his skin, and that's why he won't wear it?
Apo will be able to ride in the front of the bus only when drunk.
My feelings on Jewish issues are influenced by my Jewish husband, and yet, if someone said: "she's slept with one of those Jews and you can't take that out of her" I'd think they were anti-semitic. Go figure.
Wow, the landscape in Eastern Kentucky is beautiful.
you crackers
This blog features a high incidence of the pot calling the kettle white.
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From TPM:
SurveyUSA has released another one of their statewide vice presidential match-up polls. This time of Virginia. In the straight match-up, Obama vs. McCain with no veep names, Obama leads by 7 points.
Holy shit.
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Obama's gonna make you crackers sit at the back of the bus!
My support for light rail over the years has been motivated by fear of this possibility.
15: Because you know your husband did take it out of you?
17.---They're glazed, Le Creuset pots and kettles, see.
Despite my parents not being very religious (father) or outright atheistic (mother),
So your father's not very religious, and your mother's not outright atheistic, you should be in the comfortable middle.
McCain's age in the campaign will be a bigger issue than Obama's race. White voter in support of Obama, in general, has been very optimistic. I've been surprised at Virginia being labeled slightly-leaning Republican. I think Obama's a clear winner there.
Is BPL white? Because I don't like it when the Muslims take Christian women into their harems.
17.---They're glazed, Le Creuset pots and kettles, see.
Sometimes Emile Henry.
So, you know, I don't see any contradiction between saying "she's totally being racist" and saying "having an empathetic connection to Muslims, because you're related to them, is a good thing"; what's racist about what she's saying is that she thinks it's a bad thing.
"she's slept with one of those Jews and you can't take that out of her"
Wait, Jewpenises are like bee stingers?
The guy frowning over the girl's left shoulder in 24 does look like Obama. If he had a big beard.
So your father's not very religious, and your mother's not outright atheistic,
Blast!
26 is correct.
The only thing that's new here is that someone believes both A) Obama is not a Muslim and B) Obama is not to be trusted, because Muslims are not to be trusted.
Wait, Jewpenises are like bee stingers?
Jewdorks are barbed; jewcunts are toothy.
24.---What did those perfidious Mohamatans done to that poor woman's pubic hair?
32: A better wax than Becks got, certainly.
Some problems forming tenses in my earlier comment, I see.
11: This matches my experience too.
And I must be trying to prove my youth and street-cred because I usually sit in the back of the bus too.
I sit on top of the bus, because I'm the oppressor.
Is the racism of a statement canceled out if its true? I didn't think those were mutually exclusive. Like Sifu said, it's more how the statement is being used, or whether it is being used in good faith, that makes it racist.
I sit on top of the bus, because I'm the oppressor.
I drive a car, because buses are for honkeys.
9- White working-class voters need to be patterned for number of teeth.
Should prejudice against Muslims be called racism?
I sit on top of the bus, because I'm the oppressor.
I am the uber-oppressor, because I own the bus.
40- Because brown peoples get lumped in, yes.
40: yes.
Because (a) it would have a very different flavor if most muslims were white and (b) there's no nice, short word for religious prejudice. Also, (c) that woman is clearly racist.
A bigot, a racist, let's call the whole thing off.
Sifu is right in 26, but I take the point of the post more to be that while the woman is saying a racist thing the racist thing she is saying is racist because it is a negative interpretations of something liberals are apt to give a positive interpretation to. That is, she is not making a prejudicial statement about Muslims, so much, as she is saying having empathy for them is bad, where I think it is good. The truth value of her statement, however, is not something that can be played up as a selling point on a national electorate scale, so instead, the truth value of her statement has to be denied for maximum political efficacy. And that is a weird thing.
43: Yes, but......well, I'm remembering the part in Malcom X's autobiography when he goes to Mecca and discovers that there are lots of lily-white Muslims.
My favorite rat back dialogue
Dean: "Oh, get in the back of the bus, Sam"
Sammy: "Jews don't ride in the back of the bus"
Frank: "Yeah, dey own the bus!"
The Driver on the bus says "Move on back,
move on back, move on back."
(The above link courtesy of the U.S Government.)
Racism is funnier with a New York accent and a glass of ice-clinky whiskey.
The only way the bigoted among us can come to understand that Muslims are just people is to bring the funny-looking neighbors some pie.
49: racist white Americans do not often take their cues from Malcolm X.
55: Speak for yourself, honkyWhite Devil!
54: Most Americans hate and fear architects. If you bring me some fresh-baked pie*, we can talk it out.
* No pecans, please. I hate that Southern shit.
Learn to take the win, ogged. I'm pleased by the woman's statement. That's how people move on issues: they think that gay marriage is an abomination, but their friend's daughter is gay, so maybe they'll withhold their horror just to see. And then the sky doesn't rain fire, and they shift a bit. I didn't click through, so maybe the joke's on me, but this seems like a happy story, not a nutpicking story.
And your argument on identification with Muslims for Barry Obama is strained.
No pecans, please. I hate that Southern shit
Just so you know, JRoth, I'm going to take a shit in the Monongahela river and let it float north to you just for that comment.
From the link in #54:
"in your heart of hearts, whatever vanishingly small worries you have about terrorism involve a guy on a bus who doesn't look like Tim McVeigh."
My mom was one of McVeigh's elementary school teachers. She said that little bastard was trouble from the start.
Just think: if only Populuxe's mom had been able to use corporal punishment, maybe that building would still be standing.
59: Actually, I recently enjoyed some pecan pie - if the filling's not too heavy, and the crust is right, they're OK. But I don't much like nuts (or raisins) in my desserts.
As I attested recently, I'm really a sucker for Southern food.
This is a confusing post -- there's nothing, *nothing* racist about saying "his father was a Muslim and you can't take that out of him." Islam is a religion, not a race, and there is a world of difference between the two. It's racism to assume that a person's skin color is determinative of their behavior, but it is certainly not racist to say that the ideological/religious environment in which one grows up is indelibly written on his mind.
It's not the case that people always wind up with the views of their parents, obviously, but the whole question has nothing whatsoever to do with racism.
This is what Jeffrey Goldberg's interview with Obama was about. More than any actual issue Goldberg wants Obama to say that he intuitively sides with one ethnic group over another.
I think the back-of-the-bus youth are taking those seats for the same reason they'd take the seats in the back of a classroom.
there's nothing, *nothing* racist about saying "his father was a Muslim and you can't take that out of him."
The adage"You can take a boy out the country, but you can't take the country out a boy" is considered a truism in that part of the country, so you can see how the same thought process works for religious heritage.
That said, the distinction between the Muslim religion and the Arab ethnicity is pretty commonly elided in the population at large, and probably even more so Down South. And the phrase "sand n****rs" for arabs was pretty common in my recollection.
Well, considering the muslim father to which Obama had some connection growing up was not his biological father, and considering Obama had only an extremely tenuous connection to a muslim "ideological/religious environment" growing up, it might be a teesy bit racist even under your perspective of what counts as racist. It seems you made the same assumptions as the woman Ogged quoted. Brown guy with a funny name? We really need to dig into his religious and ethnic past.
but it is certainly not racist to say that the ideological/religious environment in which one grows up is indelibly written on his mind.
Questions get raised when (a) you can't define "grows up" or describe the ideological/religious environment very well.
Sybil Vane, marry me.
And yes, of course what she's saying is racist (or bigoted), I was just contrasting it with "plain tainted-blood racism."
Ogged, get my kid to start napping again. And erase my memories of cigarettes. Then, yes.
Actually, do those things *and* don't wear those dork ass toe shoes.
>And yes, of course what she's saying is racist (or bigoted)
Contrast with, "His father was a Christian and you can't take that out of him."
I have nap room experience, Sybil. And have had now two girlfriends who smoked when we started going out, but no longer do. Strange that your dream guy is named "ogged" but life is funny sometimes.
have had now two girlfriends who smoked when we started going out, but no longer do
Because they're dead, right?
IT'S A TRAP, SYBIL! IF YOU SLEEP WITH HIM, YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO GET THE SHI'A OUT OF YOU!
Sybil, please move to Virginia for 6 months before you act on Ogged's proposal.
two girlfriends who smoked when we started going out I set them on fire, but no longer do
Sybil, do you have good teeth? Because Arabs really care about that.
Because they're dead, right?
that made me laugh out loud.
Smokes smoked while bicycling don't count. The jolly useless security guard in my building caught my eye and returned my bicycle helmet this morning, I had left it on a bench last Friday. I always thought he disliked me, so a doubly nice surprise.
Many people hate the idea of rootlessness, both personally and for society, but want to keep its benefits. Thus lip service to traditions and attitudes to which people are actually indifferent. There are probably dirt-eaters somewhere consistently opposed to rootlessness, too, but they can eat the lead paint offa grandpappy's windowsills for all the difference they make.
I have lovely teeth. One crooked one on the bottom, which is charming.
Will, I am prepared to accept ogged's proposal, no more questions asked, but would like to act on your cock-blocking. Instead of moving to VA for 6 months, (as I assume ogged will be moving to me, given my lucrative academic career), could we modify it so that you move to, say, GA for 6 months? And we see how it goes?
could we modify it so that you move to, say, GA for 6 months?
You mean, you're only 14?
Eisenhower's parents were Jehovah's Witnesses and the evidence seems to be that he was raised as one, although that was somewhat covered up while he was in the military and running for the Presidency. (He was confirmed into the Presbyterian Church just days after taking office in 1953.) In addition to the later political concerns of being from a "nutty" sect, there was the conflict between his role in the military and the JW position on military duty. Clearly, not completely analagous, and absent the racist overtones, but it does have some elements in common.
84 is a pretty good Emerson imitation.
Instead of moving to VA for 6 months, (as I assume ogged will be moving to me, given my lucrative academic career), could we modify it so that you move to, say, GA for 6 months? And we see how it goes?
I am torn between lust for money and lust for sybil. Fortunately, lust for sybil combined with lust to cock-block ogged totally destroys the money factor.
Plus, I have kin in Savannah.
Nixon, as we know, was a Quaker.
I am torn between lust for money and lust for sybil
I feel almost certain that people get divorced in GA.
I think there is something in At Ease—a startlingly well-written book—about one of Ike's brothers telling him about his mother's grief and anguish, which she hid from him, on his leaving for West Point.
Nixon, as we know, was a Quaker, and a shaker, a mover and a love-maker.
Was Nixon a practicing Quaker? as an adult, I mean.
Was Nixon a practicing Quaker? as an adult, I mean.
Don't you remember his ardent embrace of pacifism as President, Mary Catherine? His legendary probity in his dealings with others?
84: Interesting, considering that he authorized the controversial "under God" addition to the pledge (apparenty after his conversion to Presbyterianism, and this: "In 1940 the Supreme Court, in deciding the case of Minersville School District v. Gobitis, ruled that students in public schools could be compelled to recite the Pledge, even Jehovah's Witnesses like the Gobitases (whose name was misspelled as 'Gobitis' in the court case), who considered the flag salute to be idolatry. In the wake of this ruling, there was a rash of mob violence and intimidation against Jehovah's Witnesses. In 1943 the Supreme Court reversed its decision, ruling in West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette that "compulsory unification of opinion" violated the First Amendment."
I like the Barnette case. Damn you, Ike.
He practiced and practiced, but he never got very good at it.
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What's with the Methodists? 844 to 20
Damn.
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93: [Eisenhower, Jehovah's & the Pledge]
Yes, that is an interesting connection. This is a pretty extensive account of Eisenhower and the Jehovah's but it does not cover that aspect other than to note that Eisenhower did reference "God and religion" quite a bit during his presidency.
It does hve one quote from an article form the Watchtower magazine, complaining about the VFW and American Legion participating in his mother's funeral (1946) when they claimed those organizations had a history of fomenting violence against Jehovah's Witnesses.
Was Nixon a practicing Quaker? as an adult, I mean
It appears he swore, rather than affirmed.
Was Nixon a practicing Quaker? as an adult, I mean
It appears he swore, rather than affirmed.
Hoover was a Quaker also, I think, with a public career much more consistent with the sect's principles than Nixon's. Did he affirm, does anybody know?
Did he affirm, does anybody know?
Doesn't look like it. Wikipedia cites the Washington Post: "Hoover Plans to Swear on Bible, Taking Oath."
More interestingly, a transcript of a press conference by a government historian on the history of the oath of office. The Q&A towards the end is particularly good, except for the part when he gets the dates wrong.
As an atheist, I would demand that whatever oath I swore just be fuck and shit and so on.
so even liberals who understand it have to read her comment as straight racism, and denounce it, which leads to people Ogged saying that they're naive idealists.
"People" tend to say "that's not racist!" The hangup about naive idealism is pretty much all Ogged's.
Also I'm pretty damn impressed with the skinny hat-wearing white guy in the Yglesias post who says straight up that it's b/c "white people have been making black people sit in the back of the bus for years" and he's (?) afraid that if blacks get power it'll be time to turn the tables. Most honest thing I've heard about racism in ages.
Most honest thing I've heard about racism in ages.
Honest, yes. But it isn't clear to me what he thinks the 17 black people in West Virginia are going to do to him, exactly.
104: But it isn't clear to me what he thinks the 17 black people in West Virginia are going to do to him, exactly.
Lose to Pitt.
I admire honesty, though. And mmmmmmaybe he's just talking about why people are racist, in general terms, rather than saying he thinks that way.
In any case, it's easier to have a discussion with an honest man than with the woman at the beginning of the clip, who's all, "I would never vote for a . . . . I'm not racist, now."
105 was, it pains me to admit, awfully funny.
105 shows the proper role for sports trash-talk in our society.
106.2: That cracked me up -- it was just so cliche.
Also, since this seems to be the political thread du jour, I just want to say I'm taking the safety off my Hillary hatred gun* again, and resting my finger lightly along the side of the trigger guard.
* Note to Secret Service: This is a purely metaphorical gun, and it shoots vitriol instead of lead. Please do not tackle me to the ground.
Damn it. "Clinton" for "Hillary" above -- I've been trying very hard to use it consistently. :(
111, in light of the content of 110, is kind of funny.
It also makes me think that I've been meaning to start a big, pointless fight over the fact that everybody in Massachusetts calls the senior senator "Teddy".
Note to Secret Service: "vitriol", in this context, means "angry invective". Please do not hurt Mr. Lovecraft.
And, uhh, "invective" means "harsh words".
113: Note to Secret Service: Knecht Ruprecht doesn't think you're stupid or anything. He's just trying to make things perfectly clear here.
112: In light of the postscript to 110, I'm not going to quote Lazarus Long here.
Note to Secret Service: "invective" refers to angry speech. It's not some kind of radioactive super-poison, you fucking morons.
everybody in Massachusetts calls the senior senator "Teddy".
You can call her "Hillary" if you're a big fan.
118: sweet. I'm a huge fan. I wish Hillary would knock it the fuck off with the driving the party apart.
Fun Fact: the superdelegate I know lost the position that gives them aforesaid right because a bunch of Hillary supporters wanted revenge for superdelegate-I-know's support of Obama.
What was her superdelegatepower?
The ability to be stripped of office!
120: wait, why did you say "her"?
#27: Wait, Jewpenises are like bee stingers?
They're actually a bit larger.
127: They're actually a bit larger.
Don't sell yourself short, that's only true for really big bees.
This, you realize, is why Jerry Seinfeld made Bee Movie. He was jealous.
As I read "Dreams from my Father", it was Barack's paternal grandfather who was the last real Muslim in the family. His dad was by all accounts agnostic. Furthermore, he only met his father once in his life, around the age of ten, as shortly after he was born, his dad left to attend school at Harvard.
This entire conversation seems about due for a Seinfeldian, "not that there's anything wrong with that" disclaimer.
