the next lifetime? are they banned to re-enter the US for the lifetime? how strange
my father 's been to Armenia in 1987 i believe, his impression was that of a beautiful country, friendly people, i did not know that the things were so bad with transition there to seek asylum
the boy can be back as an exchange student hopefully
Congress's failure to pass the DREAM Act is pretty shameful, even if I want to oppose it on principle because of the stupid acronym.
Funny, I was just reading the pretty good Village Voice article on Slick Rick's deportation travails. But unlike Rick, whose felony is a large part of the motivation for his deportation and who has therefore been greatly helped by Patterson's pardon, I guess Schwarzenegger can't intervene here.
After that last thread, I find regular injustice vaguely comforting, in that I don't have to argue that this is all kinds of fucked up, as opposed to say, Willow.
"Policeman" is likely a euphemism. Probably not the most deserving case. The family hedged their bets with the anchor baby. Whatever works.
But unlike Rick, whose felony is a large part of the motivation for his deportation and who has therefore been greatly helped by Patterson's pardon, I guess Schwarzenegger can't intervene here.
Similar to the debate over whether torturing "detainees" is cruel and unusual punishment and therefore unconstitutional. It turns out that it isn't, because nothing can be "punishment" if it is done to someone who didn't do anything wrong.
Yeah, every once in a while you hear stories like these. They suck. Not any more than the kids who arent class valedictorian, but still. Just fucking give people whove made lives here amnesty already.
Well, at least the deportee is white. That ought to be worth something.
are they banned to re-enter the US for the lifetime?
Yes. Generally, not even allowed tourist visas (because it's assumed that if they were allowed back in, they would stay).
Congress's failure to pass the DREAM Act is pretty shameful
Key senators have said publicly that they won't pass it precisely because it's so much more persuasive and sympathetic -- they want it passed as part of comprehensive immigration reform, or not at all.
6.2 appears to be ignorant of the massive statistical study
Sorry, trying again:
6.2 appears to be ignorant of the massive statistical study conducted last year (involving tens of thousands of asylum cases across the US) that basically indicated that gaining or being denied asylum was almost purely a roll of the dice.
Question for those versed in immigration law. If you were not a US citizen, and and a fiancee visa application for you was in the works, just how bad of an idea would it be to take a three-month job in Iran as a river guide? Somewhat foolhardy, or completely retarded?
Disclaimer: IANAL. This is way too important to be asking strangers on the Internet about. Go talk to a real lawyer, preferably a member of AILA.
Points in favor:
1. Having an American citizen willing to marry you (love marriage, willing to put up with intrusive, prying personal questions) is pretty much the gold-standard get-out-of-jail-free card.
2. This may be the last free window to visit Iran before the US government decides we are at war.
3. ::crickets::
Points against:
1. If visa is denied, US citizen will have to marry you overseas and then apply to bring you, or try to get you here on a tourist or employment visa (and those last two are nearly impossible if the K visa has been denied).
2. If during your three months away you are summoned for another interview, if they lose your biometrics and you need to have them re-taken, if they send a Request for Evidence that your fiancee can't fulfill on her own, if anything at all comes up in your visa application process that you must be present to deal with, bye-bye application.
3. If your application in any way contains information about how you are likely to be able to support yourself economically (may not, if your financee has to do an affidavit of support as is traditional), the footloose quality of tourguiding in Iran is not going to look sober and responsible.
4. If you are male, non-Anglo and/or non-Christian, your background check will be lengthened. How long? Who knows! Hope you don't have a wedding date set. Hope you weren't planning on having kids right away.
Despite all that, #1 point in favor is still true. With a US citizen spouse, almost all problems can be solved. Sometimes they take an extra year or two. Or four.
But again, IANAL. Go talk to one, in person. Maybe two.
7:
Torturing detainees is done to extract information from them, or because American guards are sadistic evil people (take your pick or mix'n'match). It is not done to punish them. I think Scalia is wrong most of the time, and I oppose torture, but the degree to which intelligent people willfully misunderstand the 8th Amendment is just confounding.
Let me give you an example. If you are walking along the street, minding your own business, and a policeman beats the crap out of you at random, he has not violated your 8th Amendment rights. You can sue him and the local government under Section 1983 for depriving you of your right to be free of an ass-whupping while acting under color of law, but not everything that is cruel is "cruel and unusual punishment."
As for this kid, I say split the difference: deport the mom and let the kid go to college. Not because he won the asylum, but under the "we need more smart, motivated people in America" public policy justification.
PG, I'm liking your posts, but I'm going to go all Lizard Breath on you and ask you to please change (or at least lengthen) your pseud. It's really confusing.
12: Hey, I'm a little drunk, but the short answer is it depends.
When you apply for a fiance(e) visa, one of the things you are required to do is list everywhere you've lived and worked for the past ten years. I believe, though totally not looking it up now, that if you've lived in a place more than six months you also have to submit a police certificate from them. But a three-month trip shouldn't trigger that.
So there's no question of keeping it secret.
So, there's no official thing that says 'if you go to Iran or any of the other countries we're pissed at, expect a delay' . Realistically, it depends. If your explain it well in the cover letter as to what you were doing there and can substantiate it with paychecks and shit, your friend will probably be okay. Worst case sucks, but reasonable worst case is a long time (12-18 months) in namecheck while they try to figure out whether your friend is a terrorist. If your friends have a good solid relationship, and the evidence and such suggests it's ridiculous to expect that thsi si a Secret Al-Qaeda plot, they should be fine.
This is assuming your friend is a first-world kid going to Iran for some reason. The story's a lot more hellish if he's Muslim, from the Middle East, etc.
Not a lawyer, but handled shivbunny's entire fiance visa process on my own.
Also 1 of 13 is false, two is true, three is false (they look at the sponsor, not the immigrant) and four is sorta false, in that it matters more whether the country is known as a high risk of fraud or on the list more than the person's actual religion. (Christians out of Egypt have a bitch of a time. Muslims out of Canada, not so much.)
A lawyer is good. You can get a consulation for between 100-159 bucks. Go here and read through the guides. Read all the paperwork, even if you have a lawyer; it's your life.
Hey, I'm a little drunk
That's okay, Cala, I wikk forgove thee.
I would certainly talk to a lawyer about this situation. If the application is already in the works, there may be travel restrictions, or at least the need to obtain advance parole. And even with advance parole, an applicant can be refused entry by an immigration agent, and it could be a real hassle to fight that.
And the cruel part, OT, is that it's taken since 1992 to get this decision. Most asylum appeals are rejected, because it's a fairly easy path to apply for even if it has a low success rate: you don't even need to con an American citizen into wanting to fuck you. But the fact that it takes 14 years is just immoral. Disruptive to people's lives and livelihood. (My opinion on illegal immigration is similar. I can't get all worked up about it either way, but the fact that people aren't being deported after two weeks in the country but after 20 years makes me think they have a right to stay.)
18: They won't have advanced parole until they have the visa and have applied for the green card; that's a ways down the road. Bouncing it off a lawyer is a good idea, esp. if the person is still comtemplating it. My sense: go somewhere else, there's lots of whitewaters in the world.
Also, fuck USCIS.
Cala - why do you say 13.1 is false? Have you known K visa cases that got re-filed or appealed successfully as Ks?
Yes, actually. if the person doesn't get a K the employment or touristt visa is more likely to be fucked, because in the case of the tourist, one of the things you have to sign says it that you have 'no immigrant intent' and the K kinda gives the lie to that, and the in case of employment, if the person were eligible for a dual-intent employment visa, they would have done that instead of the K since it's twice as fast and half as stupid.
Usual path off a failed K, ime, is either the couple breaks up (mail-order brides) or the couple files the waiver (illegal entry, crimes) or the couple gets married (if they just didn't have enough evidence.) IME, at least. Again, not a lawyer, but that's my sense of it.
Usual path off a failed K, ime, is either the couple breaks up (mail-order brides) or the couple files the waiver (illegal entry, crimes) or the couple gets married (if they just didn't have enough evidence.) IME, at least.
OK, yeah, that's not too far off from my sense of it. It's just that if it is a love match, they usually just get married and then try to sort it all out. That's what I was trying to say, but maybe did so badly.
Yeah, sorry. I'm just ridiculously pedantic on this issue. But they ain't gonna come as a tourist 99% of the time with a pending K-1 or even a boyfriend*, let alone a failed one.
*Yeah, yeah. If the foreigner is male, it's a good bet that they're from a country that doesn't need a visa to visit the U.S., or if they're not, they ain't getting a visa. Point being, if your mail-order bride is from the Ukraine, she's going to need a fiancee visa, because, well, if she could manage an employment, student, or tourist one, she wouldn't be with you. (90% of the time.)
Saroyan was from the Fresno area, I think. I wonder if there's been a Armenian community there continuously since his time. (I'm guessing yes, but the Soviet Union's restrictions probably slowed down the addition of new immigrants for quite a while.)
What sucks, aside from being deported, is that the kid, if he's been in proceedings since 1992 and is just graduating high school, was four or so when he got here, and is going to be deported to a place where he doesn't share the culture or speak the language. He's as American as I am at this point, culturally, but it took them 16 some years to get through the paperwork.
Oh, and speaking of deportation. From earlier this year:
Immigration and Customs Enforcement has held Warziniack for weeks in an Arizona detention facility with the aim of deporting him to a country he's never seen. His jailers shrugged off Warziniack's claims that he was an American citizen, even though they could have retrieved his Minnesota birth certificate in minutes and even though a Colorado court had concluded that he was a U.S. citizen a year before it shipped him to Arizona.
He was eventually freed.
Follow up: "Feds admit to jailing U.S. citizens as illegal immigrants, but call incidents rare"
1. This story is one of a very long line of prop. articles designed to support the DREAMAct. They all follow the same pattern, and they're probably placed in papers by attys, school admins, and the like. Sounds incredible? See my category about that type of article for examples.
2. The anti-American effects of the DREAMAct are illustrated - with helpful, understandable paint.exe graphics - here: youtube.com/watch?v=WZkvEmSy1vk
3. This site is supporting "brain-draining" foreign countries rather than supporting bright students helping those foreign countries prosper.
Really, it helps when you think this through and know what you're talking about.
The DREAMAct is completely moral and right and every argument to the contrary is flawed.
I'd give you more, but that's pretty much what it boils down to. One can't 'brain drain' someone who's been here since infancy.
Really, it helps when you think this through and know what you're talking about trolls bring baked goods.
Yeah, the argument 'you don't know what you're talking about' isn't likely to carry much water with me, ever, since besides being a little bit arrogant, 'fuck you, I know more about this anyone else in the room' is likely to apply to everyone I run into except maybe Napi and Katherine.
Lonewacko is literally the first internet troll I was aware of. Haven't seen him since...wow, 2002?
OK; it sounds like a lawyer is a requirement and speculating is pointless. FWIW, the person engaged is my sister, and her fiancé is not white, Anglo, from the first world, or as far as I know Christian. They were going to try to get married in his home country (that just got rid of its monarchy in the last week or two) but found the size of the bribery requests excessive given the early point in the wedding license application process.
Really, it helps when you think this through and know what you're talking about.
See Cala's 27. In this case, and others like it, kids who are basically American and sometimes (as in this case) don't even speak the language of their ancestral homeland are sent back. You haven't added a brain in that case, you've added a foreigner who needs to learn the language. As for "college discounts," you'll have to say more about where the money is coming from and whether immigrants and citizens are drawing from the same limited pool of resources before that's convincing.
Seriously, water moccasin, the site I linked to is an invaluable resource. Your sister shoudl be perusing it, and more importantly, the official government docs linked off of the page.
She may not need a lawyer for the whole thing; but a consultation is probably wise (Laurel Scott is name that often comes up with these, but no recommendation here, as we did it without a lawyer.) Which country, if you don't mind my asking?
Cala knows more about the fiance process than I do. The DREAM act is a good thing. So, to any jerks out there bitching about "anchor babies," is the 14th Amendment.
Dude, any jerk bitching about anchor babies gives up their intellectual right to talk about this on the grounds that uttering 'anchor babies' murders the brain cell that would have stored your knowledge of immigration.
Katherine knows more about the lawyer end but seriously, I spent 18 months researching this shit because I didn't have $10K for a lawyer.
From the link in the update:
Once he is back in Armenia, Arthur could return to the United States on a student visa. Or he could ask a member of Congress to introduce a private bill on his behalf to grant him legal residency, Silverman said.
Yeah, one of the weird things is, and one of the reasons the DREAMAct makes sense, is that according to current U.S. law, illegal time accrued when one is underage just simply doesn't count. So if the kid get deported based on his parents' status, he has a clean slate as far as the U.S. government is concerned, as long as it's said and done before he's 18.
(And 18 starts a new clock. if you leave at 18 and three days, you've overstayed three days, which is basically bupkus as far as future penalties go.)
The DREAMAct would obviously brain-drain other countries since those *foreign citizens* wouldn't return to their home countries and contribute to those countries' growth. And, it would encourage others to come here, furthering the brain-drain.
And, very very basic math will show you that given a) limited educational resources (whether financial aid or spots) and b) more applicants than resources, any aid or spot given to a foreign citizen who's here illegally will deprive a U.S. citizen of the aid or spot that they could have received. If that's hard to understand, let me suggest finding a math tutor to help you think this through, perhaps a 2nd grader.
Let me also suggest taking a gander at the comments here:
alternet.org/rights/80643
youtube.com/watch?v=TBuTxE2kDwQ
Only zombie countries are able to effect a real brain-drain.
Or he could ask a member of Congress to introduce a private bill on his behalf to grant him legal residency, Silverman said.
Good luck with that. I used to work for a Canadian who for various complicated reasons (including that she was with her American husband for 25 years, and ran a business with him for almost that long, but had a legal marriage only when he was on his deathbed) had just the hope of a bill rider introduced by a member of Congress. Despite the work of an immigration lawyer and plenty of political connections, she ended up leaving for Canada on the eve of her deportation, and nearly five years later she's still there, waiting for something.
26: I wonder if there's been a Armenian community there continuously since his time.
Yes, Fresno has been a center of Armenian migration since the early 20th century per this article at Armeniapedia. Also you can see it if you map California and Armenian on this great language mapping site from MLA. (LA is the real center now.)
The only thing that could make that map site more awesome than it already is would be a choice of all languages other than English and Spanish.
God, not TLB. Which one of you has betrayed God, thus leading to this pestilence? I need to know who to blame. My money is on Cala.
One of the Saroyans worked for the same restaurateur I mentioned in 44. We didn't overlap, but I knew him. He played minor league baseball and had a hell of an arm. After work a couple of us used to hurl lemons onto the marquee of the movie theater across the parking lot from the restaurant; he joined us one night and threw not just well over the marquee but nearly over the entire building, like one and a half blocks.
I was supposed to be set up with Str/wberry Saroyan, a Saroyan daughter, but I found true love before it could happen. And yes, that is her name.
49: Ar/m's daughter, the journalist. I'm pretty sure she's the cousin of Ad/m, the guy I knew.
40, 44: It's not impossible. My boyfriend and his family were permitted to immigrate because of some letters his grandmother wrote to Alan Cranston. I don't think their circumstances were unusual or compelling -- not white, not European, not well-off, no asylum issues -- but for whatever reason it worked. Although that was thirty years ago, and things are probably different now.
37: Ne/pal. I don't know why I'm paranoid about my sister googling and finding this discussion; she DID say it'd be helpful if I asked the people I knew who knew something about it, but paranoid I am.
Nepal isn't particularly known for being a high fraud consulate, rumor has it. But the basic picture any couple has to overcome is 'is the marriage entered into primarily for immigration benefit?', and while there are successful visa petitions from almost every part of the world, some take longer than others.
Things they'll need to show: how they met, how long they've been together, backed up with evidence (phone bills, airline tickets, leases, receipts, anything that puts them in the same place at the same time.) Most of the paperwork is pretty straightforward.
If they have any unusual issues: not speaking the same language, large age difference, known each other only a very short time (the number of people who meet once and then decide to marry while not knowing the language, culture, religion, etc. is a little striking, but that's why God invented divorce lawyers), they should be prepared to explain it. But again, 60 year old guys with 20 year old brides get through; they're not interested in adjudicating anyone's happiness, just making sure the US citizen isn't being taken for a ride.
I know someone who was adopted from Canada by an American family, in infancy I think, but never naturalized. When she was past 40, with an a American husband and a grown American daughter, La Migra started bugging her. It ended up being no more than a big nuisance, but it's amazing that they paid any attention to her at all. Immigration people vie with prison guards to be the lowest form of bureaucrat.
51. Alan Cranston, despite being a mummy, kept getting reelected on the strength of his constituent service. He also was the last pol to be able to retire on his campaign fundraising warchest.
54: I have a cousin-in-law with nearly the same story. Lived in Canada his whole life, assumed he had dual-Canadian-British citizenship, went to the UK to work (as was easy for Canadians to do), came back, and was denied on the grounds that he had immigrant intent and not a proper immigrant visa. It took nine months to sort out.