Actually I rather like cooking threads.

Ogged has a look.

3!

Does that dress count as an empire-cut, or whatever?

I'm totally confused and hearing complaints from the laydeez about these cuts of dresses that make them look preggers (which I don't understand; girl in photo: not visibly preggers [not that there's anything wrong with that, one way or the other]).

She is the person on the front page you single out?

I can share in your disappointment that he didn't choose this. But Ogged is his own special snowflake.

I would have gone for this, actually.

From the picture, she could be pregnant, like just beginning to show. The way that cut sits, you really don't know for sure how much tummy she has. Or doesn't. Which, frankly, is a plus.

4: It does, but the shape of the skirt and the deep V of the neckline saves it a little. This is more the silhouette that I gripe about, because it would make me look about seven months along.

The way that cut sits, you really don't know for sure how much tummy she has. Or doesn't. Which, frankly, is a plus.

See, that was my take. "It's just summery! And free!" But I've heard multiple complaints about feeling like one is wearing a maternal gown. I should probably just wear one to work tomorrow and see how I feel, rather than posting third-party rantings on a weblog.

It's also hard if one has any amount of boobage, because the waist is supposed to cut up just under the bust, and this is hard to do if one's bust is too large for the top if one wants to avoid the cups-runneth-over look.

Ogged has a look.

Redheads? She does appear to be wearing little to no makeup. Is Ogged into hippies?

11: isn't that what makes it look as if you're pregnant, that combination of boobage and tummy?

Combination of boobage and lack of a defined waist, yeah. (It doesn't make one look paunchy, it's just that one could have washboard abs or an eight-pound fetus under there for all the difference it would make.)

re: 14

Yeah, although the super-tiny-tiny empire line mini-dresses that have been around over the past couple of years are so small that the only way they can be worn is if the person wearing them is obviously skinny.

6: I really need to start standing in front of walls that match my outfits.

I remember walking around London with my mom a few years ago when she offered "Everyone... looks like a whore". She should have her own Shametorialist page.

Is there a reason Ms. Model's dress has flowers on it? I don't mean to denigrate the stripey/non stripey contrast, which works. But if those flowers were either a)abstract, b)arabic text, or c) gone altogether, it would be much more flattering. PS: (I am not a well-dressed person).

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11: Oh, quit bragging, Miss 38E.

I remember walking around London with my mom a few years ago when she offered "Everyone... looks like a whore".

Don't take her to Vegas.

Tommy Hilfiger, of all places, had some really cute tank-like things on a fabric with little eyelets, butmy cups runneth over.

22: OTOH, surely goodness and mercy shall follow you all the days of your life.

Shirley, Goodness, and Mercy, the Quaker triplets.

and Shirley has her very own candidate for the US Senate (as we saw yesterday).

20 to 22.

Where's B to brag about hers?

It's not bragging if you're bringing it up to say that NO SUMMER CLOTHES WILL FIT YOU.

The empire waist thing is the worst when it's got a bunch of tucks beneath the underboob seam. It's like all the designers forgot how to cut out a dress that has any shape, and they just make giant tubes for every dress. And then they have to fit all those masses of fabric onto the top part, so they gather and fold it all up.

The "looking pregnant" thing is real -- empire waists did that to me even as a bony teenager. They don't do it to everyone, and I'm not sure what the difference is between builds they flatter and builds they don't.

It depends how they are cut, too, I think. My wife has a (modern) 60s-styled vintage-looking 'flapper' dress that's cut with a sort of empire line shape* and it's quite tightly tailored with a flat front under the empire waist rather than gathered/tucked so it doesn't do the 'pregnancy' thing and I suspect it wouldn't no matter who the wearer.

* i.e. it's a modern take on a 60s take on a 20s cut.

11, 20, 22, 23, 26, 27; no fact more lamented by half the unfoggetariat, nor more celebrated by the other.

28. Right. I've witnessed women in those things being asked when the baby was due before now.

29: Oh, sure, but what you're describing is a fitted sheath with a seam under the breasts, not really what one would generally call an empire waist. Similar, but not the same. Fitted sheath dresses generally rule, or at least they're flattering on me.

re: 32

No, this isn't a sheath shape. The skirt is fuller and slightly pleated and the section around the bust is still fairly empire-ish. It's sort of a hybrid thing, like a cross between a 60s maxi-dress, a 20s flapper dress, and a classic early 19th century empire shape. It's just that the panel directly below the seam is tailored rather than 'ruched' but it's 'ruched' further down (like a classic empire line).

Googling, I discover, there's a name for this. A 'banded empire waist'. The band in this case is fairly deep.

You learn a lot about dress-making (between brawls) growing up on the mean streets of (little town near?) Glasgow.

Yeah, that would avoid the pregnancy look while still being empire-ish. Sounds pretty.

Growing up on the mean streets of (little town near) Glasgow is not actually great for avoiding either pregnancy or its look, I hear.

Alas. Even today my 58-year-old baby sister has a lovely slender, busty figure that drives men wild, but when she was young she got no value from that because that was the Twiggy era. Or so she says.

See, reality sucks. Nobody can win. We are particles of light trapped in a world of darkness and evil, as Mani pointed out.

Apparently eating melons is one thing that you can do to moderate the evil effects of Being. (You'll still be too busty, but you'll care less.)

re: 34

Yeah. You need to watch for the razor gangs. One disparaging word about Vionnet's work and they'll bias cut your face.

More seriously, my wife works in fashion retail so I have to listen to a fair bit of clothes/shoes/handbags talk.

Melons ameliorate the tragedy of melons? Wouldn't have figured.

And, obviously, I'm all metrosexual and shit.

The ladies here ought to try the melon treatment. It probably won't work, but mmmmmmmmm. Celibacy and vegetarianism are other Manichaean precepts, but the melon part is easier.

Cucumbers, squash, pumpkins. All liberating.

I had melon soup with mint for lunch yesterday. It was awesome.

Oh, she looks so good.

You're fantasizing about eating granola with her, aren't you?

max
['And then: the satisfying bowel movement!']

Melon also works well when taken as part of a freshly-made sorbet or gelato. It really is the cure what what existentially ails ya.

43: Does reality now seem a little less grim?

Jimi Hendrix expressed the Manichaean principle as "There ain't no life nowhere".

42: Where do tubers fall on the liberation scale?

speaking of pregnant, where on earth can I find a maternity black skirt or tailored pants I can wear with a suit that won't cost $100? I have two black suit jackets which should fit for a while longer & the fabric ought to be fairly easy to match, but I can't find maternity business-type clothes at all. Ann Taylor only sees fit to make cutesy sundresses, which pisses me off.

Potatoes and yams are African and New World plants, so there was probably no ruling.

48: Congratulations! ...right? Did I miss an earlier announcement?

You know, I just looked at the picture from the post, and while I'm sure that woman's pretty, that isn't a very good picture.

(It's also charming to have your "business wear" dep't carry mainly capri pants. What the hell? What do women who have to wear suits regularly as opposed to a few times a month do?)

50: geez, heebie, do try to keep up. I bet you don't know Emerson's pregnant, either.

Does reality now seem a little less grim?

I'd like to give the world a bowl of melon soup with mint.

The sweet potato is more closely related to the morning glory than it is to the yam. Some African yams are toxic and require special preparation.

That's going to have to be one big-ass bowl of soup.

I bet you don't know Emerson's pregnant, either.

Of course I do. Are you questioning my virility?

50: yeah, a month or so back....I'm not even really showing yet but my regular clothes are ceasing to fit except for a few pairs of pants that sit at the hips.

56: no, regular size. Bastards should learn to share.

58: you know what would be kind of a cool look, is if you bought a bunch of used suits that belonged to really short, fat guys, and did kind of a deconstructed Orson Welles drag kind of thing.

melon soup with mint is great, but I can't imagine it being substantial enough for lunch.

I use my melons for granita, which can also include mint but more frequently lime and rum.

my regular clothes are ceasing to fit

If your body behaves like either of my babymamas', you've got a couple or three months left before you'll have to permanently replace your entire shoe collection.

re: 51

Yeah, I thought the same. Some of the Sartorialist shots are pretty good, but after a while the formula -- both the shooting style and the stuff that catches his eye -- gets really tired.

kind of a deconstructed Orson Welles drag kind of thing

That would be totally, totally professional.

Of the recent pictures at Sartorialist, this woman is pretty wow. And this picture is great.

#61.1. I also had half of a Bahn Mi sandwich.

64: I know, right? Think how off-balance you could get opposing counsel.

tubers

Potato is genus Solanum, which also includes eggplant, tomato, and nightshade. Eggplant cooks like squash, but is pretty much totally unrelated.

ebay is good for reasonably priced clothes (often new, sold by people who buy a little bit wholesale or remnant) IFF you know sizing for a particular brand. So, going somewhere expensive, trying on three brand names to get sizing/ quality gauge, and then clicky-clicky saves money at the cost of some hassle and waiting. Congratulations, Katherine.

Mani does not condone rum drinks, with ot without melon.

Are we talking about the fat man belt-under-the-armpits look? With a cigar and a fedora?

I'm not a 38E.

Sundresses are the worst because the seam for the cups (empire or whatever) tends to be not only intended to go under the boobs, but usually banded with a cheerful contrasting color that will hit most women with boobage at the nipple line.

(often new, sold by people who buy a little bit wholesale or remnant off the back of a handy truck)

68: yeah! And a watch chain across the pregnant belly!

You would obviously want it to be a fake cigar, either candy or exploding.

I say again, extra Katherine! woo..

Eggplants are indigenous to Iran, I think, and I'm confident that Mani would approve. There hasn't been a Manichaean governing authority since about 1300-1400 AD, due to the lack of living Manichaeans.

I wasn't talking about a rum drink, Mani. Just a little alcohol in there to inhibit freezing solid.

If there were a Manichaean governing authority, you would be so condemned, w-lfs-n.

Speaking of Orson Welles, we watched 'The Lady from Shanghai' recently and contra-preconceptions, Rita Hayworth looks great with blonde hair and, also contra-preconceptions, it's rubbish.

Wow. Who knew there were so many things to consider?

I know pretty much nothing about fashion and women's clothes and I'm not sure I really 'get' what the point of the article was but if it was something like 'perfect' doesn't work I will add this personal insight.

As far as faces goes there is a scientific definition of what people consider most attractive. Interestingly enough, though, that 'look' doesn't work very well for leading ladies. In general the 'perfect' look comes across as plastic and phony.

The key to the best leading lady 'look' is to start with perfection and then have one small difference. Julia Robert's horse mouth for example. That small flaw is enough to make the person seem perfect and yet human.

How this applies to fashion I really have no idea.

77: dress perfectly in every detail, and then wear Crocs?

51/63: what's wrong with the photograph? (Actually, I think I understand the complaint in 63. but 51 confuses me.)

79: she doesn't look good, is what's wrong.

You know what she screwed up? Her shoulder bag strap is disastrously long.

First, your bag is going to bang into your thigh as you walk, and how annoying is that, and second, it's going to make your dress bunch and ride up as you walk. Bad news blues.

What doesn't look good about her? She looks good to me.

82: maybe you're looking wrong.

I just don't think the lighting or the pose or the composition of the photograph particularly flatters her.

I definitely agree with 63. The sartorialist seems like he was trained in the narrow school of too-edgy-for-J Crew.

re: 85

Yeah. There's a very specific look he seems to seek out in men and an equally specific look in women.

There are also a lot less of the classic looking dapper old men these days, and a lot more fashion-buyers in trousers 3 inches above their ankle.

katherine,you can buy pants extenders that make ordinary pants into pretty serviceable maternity pants. also, spending $100 on one pair of black, stretchy maternity pants might pay off if you end up wearing them the whole time? and pace the apobabymams, while my feel swelled somewhat, they returned to normal afterwards. and yay babies!!

You can buy pants extenders that make ordinary pants into pretty serviceable maternity pants.

I.E., old man pants. And wear suspenders, and hook your thumbs in them.

and an equally specific look in women

Right, and this one is something of a departure, which is one reason I liked it so much.

Katherine, I see awesome maternity clothes all the time at the goodwill and salvation army. Park Slope's thrift store are JAMPACKED with really nice stuff (silk suits, organic cotton dresses, linen wraparound shirts) the new mothers chuck out. Sometimes I've been tempted to try them on, just to see if there weren't some way to belt it? tuck it in? cut bits off? But I forbear because my honey has enough to worry about without my bringing home maternity clothes.

BTW, everybody should look at the Unfogged photo section for Nakku's adorable three kids, including one who mugs it up trying to steal the scene from the innocent newborn.

And this picture is great.

Hey, I have that recorder. Never thought of wearing it with my horizontally striped pants, though.

I live in the gayest neighborhood in Chicago. There's a great secondhand clothes store nearby--consignment store type selection at Salvation Army prices, great women's clothes as well as men's--but absolutely no maternity stuff.

Katherine it's like you aren't even considering my deconstructed fat banker concept.

She wouldn't have to smoke a real cigar. But she could wear a top hat like Liza Minelli in "Cabaret."

K - Find out where the Junior League Thrift Store is - there's bound to be one (or more) somewhere in Chicagoland. There you will surely find businessy maternitywear - it might be a bit Talbots-ey for your regular life (I dunno) but it should be perfect for office life.

That said, the comment above that one really good pair of maternity pants is probably worth $100 is pretty much right, especially if you're planning on another pregnancy someday. Think of it as buying a garment you will wear 2 or 3 hundred times, plus lend to some dear friend if she times her pregnancy well. Half my wife's pregnancy wardrobe isn't hers, but comes from a couple other friends (augmented by some of their friends), and I can tell you how happy she is that Lawyer Friend K invested in some nice pants.

And congratulations.

Is $100 dollars a lot for a pair of trousers you'll get months of wear out of? Serious question?

Because you 'd be struggling to get a pair of jeans here for that.

It is here. Well, for me.

Huh. My (regular, not maternity) jeans cost around $100, but I never have more than two pair at once, and buy new ones about every two years.

I'm pretty cheap about clothes. And I was originally thinking a skirt rather than tailored pants, which for whatever reason I'm more willing to spend money on. And I won't actually get hundreds of wearings out of these--these will be when I need a suit, during pregnancy, which isn't common. I had figured on getting some free maternity stuff from friends or family but everyone I know has either never been pregnant, is still pregnant, or has had kid 1 but will soon try for kid 2.

(also, "you'll wear it so often it's a good investment" doesn't really hold when you figure in dry cleaning.)

It took my wife years to get me to spend more than $12 for jeans. I'm up to $25 now. I am convinced that all look totally fabulous on me, because I buy them black instead of blue.

Bonus fact: socks last twice as long if you turn them inside out and wear them again before washing.

it's like you aren't even considering my deconstructed fat banker concept.

Someone should market a line of maternity wear under the name "Violet Beauregarde."

(Seriously, congrats, K!)

I'm up to $25 now.

That's pretty much my limit too.

Primark jeans -- pretty much the benchmark for super-cheap-but-serviceable here -- are about $40 - $50 a pair.

I am reminded [as in many threads past] that cost of living is very very different.

I tend to buy everything on sale (never fashionable), but even adjusting for that, the most expensive pair of jeans I have cost $60. Shopped too much at K-mart as a kid to ever feel comfortable spending money on clothes.

Levi's run 30-35 dollars here.

re: 107

Yeah, more like 90 - 130 (US) here.

I'm trying to think what the most expensive jeans I've ever bought were (hoping for something ridiculously bourgeois to ride the swipple backlash) but I think, to my chagrin, I've never spent more than $40 or so. I have bought some ridiculous raver pants for like $60 (or more? It was years ago), and I've bought sort-of regular non-work pants for at least that, so I guess I'm partially there.

Yeah, more like 90 - 130 (US) here.

Holy shit! And I stopped wearing Levi's because $35 seemed completely insane to drop on friggin' denim pants.

And I stopped wearing Levi's because $35 seemed completely insane to drop on friggin' denim pants.

I think I've spent $40 on jeans a couple of times. But it hurt.

(also, "you'll wear it so often it's a good investment" doesn't really hold when you figure in dry cleaning.)

Oh, well good lord, I never contemplated dry cleaned garments. Lawyer Friend K (who, I would assume, had comparable suit needs to yours) did not seem to have any dry clean only maternity wear.

My wife's experience, as a professional who had to run public meetings while pregnant, was that a basic pair of black pants worked fine, as long as she had something recognizably dressy/professional for the top.

It's not like (non-asshole) people are judgmental about how a pregnant woman dresses, as long as she's not flashing preggo belly at a judge.

Fancy Levi's run about $60-120 here, and those are the ones that usually end up overseas.

If ever I become pregnant, it's going to be muumuus for nine months.

For years I wore (to work!) a pair of pants I got for $1 at Kaufmann's - super-duper, ultra-reduced. Just a normal pair of simple cargos. They were actually a bit small in the waist, but they looked fine*.

Even my dress linen pants only cost ~$40, I think on sale, at the same store (which is now a Macy's).

* Honest, or AB would've said something

113: Good point.

114: Feel free, but you know that your belly doesn't grow for the first few months, right?

Fools, the lot of you. If you're willing to exchange time for money, you can do the Garment District/Buffalo Exchange thing and walk out of the store with twenty dollar pants. My '70s pants look fucking awesome on me, but apparently they hadn't yet discovered the technology to sew the small pocket in the right pocket, so I have nowhere to stick my lighter.

I have nowhere to stick my lighter.

There's always nature's pocket.

After losing like 15 pounds (yay depression!) a couple of years ago, I went out and bought my most expensive ever pair of jeans for maybe $80. The angel on my right shoulder kept protesting, "$80 for one pair of jeans?!" The devil on my left shoulder prevailed with, "Yeah, but holy shit, they actually make you look hot!" I still love those jeans, all the more so because, being low rise, they still fit despite the inevitable return of my squishy tummy.

yay depression!

IME, the most effective fad diet of all.

116.---I think I just want to wear muumuus.

120: geez, I wish. Always found just the opposite to be true.

"Yeah, but holy shit, they actually make you look hot!"

The cut of the more expensive jeans does make you look better. Really, I'd love to go to Garment District and pick up some cheap used jeans, but they're not going to fit me right or look nice enough for the dressy casual look I wear to teach in.

121: well then you damn well should, JM. Why wait? Start now!

100: Actually, how far along are you and what size? I have some maternity stuff still sitting in the closet (nothing terribly stunning -- I was but a starving law student at the time) that I'd be happy to send you. Magi 8 Ball says my chances of needing them again are "not good."

Blume let's go get me some expensive jeans so I can flaunt my tight little ass. I'm feelin' this.

126; If you flaunt properly, you won't be the only one feeling it!

Magi 8 Ball says my chances of needing them again are "not good."

Aww, c'mon, Di. There's always drunken hookups and bad judgment! Don't give up on loveMurphy's Law!

Sifu has a sick onion.

129: ?

I'm currently trawling eBay for my preferred brand and cut in the short length. But I'd happily accompany you to the expensive jeans store, Sifu.

There's always drunken hookups and bad judgment!

Hey, who told you?!

125: really? 13 weeks and a bit. 8/10/medium on bottom before, small/medium on top, 5'5.

130: And a-one and a-two.

Garment District Meetup. Let's strip them fuckers of all their usable pants. We'll put them out of business!

I love this muumuu, but will my schlumpy cardigans work over those shoulder ruffles?

Expensive jeans are, unfortunately, kind of awesome. I'm wearing mine today, and they look good and make me feel pretty.

132: Email me. 2kotimy at gmail.

re: 110

Most of mine are bought at the GAP, when they have a sale. But that's still more like 25 - 35 quid ($60 US a pair).

Expensive jeans are, unfortunately, kind of awesome.

I take that line except for the ones that I cannot possibly squeeze my ass and/or thighs into. Those I am totally dismissive of: Scoff! Who would pay that much for jeans?!

Bave, unfortunately, gets it exactly right. His first sentence, anyway, that is. I'll take his word on the second.

Yeah, more like 90 - 130 (US) here.

Just the other day my friend was telling me that Europeans all go buy jeans as soon as they get to the States, because they're so relatively cheap here. I don't think the price disparity in clothes is quite that stark more generally. Could be wrong.

I don't think the price disparity in clothes is quite that stark more generally. Could be wrong.

It's hard to do apples-to-apples because there's less truly cheap clothing over there, but I'd say this is generally right. The bulk of clothes go for something like 1.5X as much, but for whatever reason jeans start at 2X.*

Are CDs still weirdly expensive over there? For a shockingly long time, they cost the same in pounds as they did in dollars. An expat friend of my dad's, who's a big music fan, spent practically all his disposable income on CDs while he was stationed here.

* Obvs, the weakening dollar is screwing with this approximation.

re: 142

I suppose the official full price for CDs is about 15 quid [30 USD] but it's pretty rare you'd pay more than about 10 quid for anything popular. I'd normally expect to pay [in pounds] 8.99 or 9.99 for a heavily promoted new release. However, a new jazz or classical release [not on Naxos] would be 15 quid, definitely.

Primark jeans -- pretty much the benchmark for super-cheap-but-serviceable here -- are about $40 - $50 a pair.

But you can get much cheaper jeans than that in Tesco, of the same quality, stitched by the same delicate hands of Indian or Vietnamese children.

Who still buys cds these days?

re: 144

Until someone develops a decent download business model, I'm still buying CDs. By 'decent' I mean DRM-free high kbps MP3s or lossless downloads at a price less than CD and with a big catalogue of new releases.

At the moment the pricing isn't that much cheaper than a CD [or, in many cases, the download is as expensive or more] whereas with a CD you get the ability to rip to a decent format, free backup media [the CD itself], the assorted liner notes, etc.

EMusic is pretty good, and I'm a member, but it doesn't cover everything.

Othermusic also sells DRM-free MP3's, and has a really interesting collection, but no, not everything.

re: 146

Interesting. I did a quick search on about a dozen or more CD I've bought recently, and they had, erm, none of them.

But they do seem to have some interesting-ish stuff.

I rarely pay more that $10-15 for a CD, and if I do it's a rarity of some sort that I must have. Not only that, after I download them I can often sell them for $5 or more. Just, now, buy good luck, I bought a $20 CD right now just as it went out of print; it was listed at $77 on Amazon and I'm offering mine at $49.99. But that's rare.