I was thinking Post-Ogged and Post-Being Breaking News, but that works, too.
Awesomeness! Nursing causes the brain to release endorphins...maybe she got a little boost from that? It's too bad she had to nurse in the bathroom (been there, done that, ugh) but I suppose that's another topic entirely.
Note, this will be her fifth Olympics.. and she sat out two Olympics.
I donno. In high school coach always told us that breast feeding right before a match would blunt our competitive edge.
This probably only for the hard-core, but here is a 14-minute radio interview with her that I found last year. In it she discusses the scenario of qualifying in both the 50 and the 100 and her concerns about being able to do both (In fact she will not swim the individual 100 at Beijing) and the relays.
Torres is the most extreme, but looking through the results, I was shocked how the sprint swimming game has aged. Barely a a 20-yr old made the final 8 in the 50 & 100 free, while a number of folks in their 30s did.
I was shocked how the sprint swimming game has aged
Kinda gives the lie to ogged's whining about how his Master's race was too hard for a fogey like him, doesn't it?
Another Selfish Woman putting her career first and forcing her child to be raised in StrangerCare.
In high school coach always told us that breast feeding right before a match would blunt our competitive edge.
Well, yeah, everyone knows you shouldn't swim on a full stomach.
And nopple, I know I shouldn't feed the trolls, but that was really funny! She breastfeeds a toddler and then immediately leaves her for 25.98 seconds? What a monster!
The capital letters make me think nopple is making a joke. Ben is so mean!
(But if I'm wrong, I want pecan pie.)
Troll or not, it made me laugh. Can we share the pecan pie? That would go well with my cup of tea.
On a vaguely-related note, bought a pile of uniform for my daughter's new school yesterday. The thing that pissed me off the most was having to buy a new swimsuit, as they all have to have the same one. What is the fucking point of making everyone wear a black Speedo costume, when she already has a perfectly respectable navy adidas one?
Also had to sit through an hour of wanky speeches (this was an evening for the new parents) which made me want to hammer 6 inch nails into my head.
INTERCONTINENTAL PECAN PIE! COMING RIGHT UP!
12: Is she going to be on a competitive swim team? Or do they just require everyone to have the same swim suit for physical education?
My grade school girls school made us buy shorts, shirts and socks in school colors that we kept in our lockers. We had to buy two sets so that we could take one home to wash.
Everyone just has to have the same costume. Basically, everyone has to be dressed the same way, all the time. Most schools here have uniforms, and some are fussier than others. This is a fussy one. They can wear any plain grey skirt, but if they want to wear trousers, it can only be one particular style from one shop (which isn't even in the same town as the school). Still, I managed to get a secondhand PE skirt (compulsory. Short grey pleated thing) which is good, as new ones are £28 pounds. FFS. I hope she bloody likes it there.
Is this a private school? I'm convinced they have scams running with specialist clothing shops to rip off parents, as per your trouser place.
Nah, it's a grammar school with delusions of grandeur. Tossers.
Well shit. £28 for a twelve year old's PE skirt? This is approaching back door selection, I'd think. Tossers indeed.
Got any of that pecan pie left? I'm starving.
back door selection
Absofuckinglutely. There's also a request for a voluntary donation of £200 to the school fund, with the helpful information that most parents comply. There's a lot of competition to get in, and a lot of the girls (single sex, natch) would be going private if they hadn't got a place, so I'm sure there are plenty of loaded parents. I was pissed off enough with them asking for money, let alone with the guilt trip bit.
And they come from all over the place - out of 93 starting in September, 7 will be walking to school (including my daughter - it's our nearest school in fact), 2 will be cycling, and about a third going on the bus. Lots travel into town by train, and I told her that the ones who are coming by car have bad parents. Don't get me started on the clubs that you can join if you want to ... and then the headmistress checks up on them a few weeks into term to make sure they've joined a sufficient amount! Obviously I was never that into schools in the first place, having home educated for 7.5 years, but I'm starting to think this is a really bad idea! Daughter still horrendously enthusiastic though.
Because I ignore all swimming posts, I had entirely missed the fact that Torres is hott and her baby is adorable. Its like a whole new level of MILF.
Torres has been universally disliked for a long time. I suspect mostly due to her single-minded focus and relative haughtiness and Type A++ personality. But, since I do not know her, I can only relate what others have said.
She has always had amazing talent. But when you add in a $100,000 a year support team, you can really help yourself.
Her $100,000 a year support staff includes: Swim Coach, Sprint Coach, Strength and Conditioning Coach, TWO Full-Time Personal Stretchers, Physical Therapist, Masseuse and last (but certainly not least) a Nanny.
I'm a little surprised she can get that big a staff for only $100,000, especially as two full-time stretchers must take a big chunk of that straight away when payroll taxes, etc. are included.
I do hope she finds something she likes to do after olympic swimming, and that she doesn't focus her energy too strongly on the kid. That seems like it could be a bit... overwhelming.
I'd never heard of a personal stretcher before. It sounds like that support team would cost more than$100K per year. The nanny alone has to cost around $60K.
The $100,000 number comes from her. I agree that the number is probably higher.
(for what it is worth though, the nanny wouldnt cost $60,000. I suspect that you are thinking about Boston costs. )
Just another reason to move south!!
Seriously, what is a personal stretcher? Why can't one just stretch oneself? What on earth could anyone need more than one for at a time?
two full-time stretchers must take a big chunk of that straight away
Extravagant. She should buy a rack. One person can operate it with very little training.
I believe that she actually has one stretcher, one masseuse, and one "soft tissue specialist."
Partner stretching can be extremely helpful.
But focus BG! The most important part was "Move south!"
Well, yeah, everyone knows you shouldn't swim on a full breast stomach.
(20 comments to make this joke? Wake up, folks!)
In memory of ogged: Juiced.
Tripp already assured us that's she's a man in an earlier post.
That is: Tripp already assured us in an earlier post that she's a man.
Ambiguous antecedent. Sue me.
I'm cranky today, it seems. Also, chatty.
I've heard of other serious athletes having personal stretchers. It does seem extravagant, but it's hard to argue with the results in this case.
How much time does a full-time personal stretcher put in for one client? Or does she keep them available for on-call duty in case she needs an emergency stretch? Or maybe she gives them full-time employment to keep them from stretching her competitors?
People spend their money of many less lucrative concepts.
For her, she will make back the cost in endorsements.
I note without further comment that her first two husbands were high wage earners and her current husband is a high wage earner.
With regard to her build, just look at the female track stars or the female beach volleyball players. They all have abs like Torres does.
22,25: I had heard about this almost exact setup from someone with connections in the swimming world. My further take from them is that she is simultaneously feared, hated and held in awe by her competitors.
She has been very aggressive (as she seemingly is in all things) in counteracting the drug rumors, volunteering to be some manner of drug testing guinea pig.
Some of the coverage that irks me is how "agonizing" it is for her to leave her child with the nanny to go train.
ObTrivia: In the '90s she did Tae-Bo commercials with Billy Blanks.
I would marry for money if it meant I got a personal stretcher. Oh man, I love assisted stretching.
When my arms were falling off from computer, my fi and I did a private yoga and got prescribed daily partner stretches. The ones with the strap in downward dog are good, although a terry bathrobe tie makes an awkward substitute.
We did some partner stuff in one of my yoga classes. The downward dog one was great.
(Fi? I demand that you not only spell it "fiancée," but pronounce it fee-on-SAY.)
Add it to the list. Unfogged DCon III activity: Partner Downward Dog
asilon,
I suspect the uniform thing is to dodge the bullet of having to make individual judgments as the kids push the envelope. My private health club has a dress code for crying out loud, but the price is so low nobody complains.
Interesting that most of the swimmers are now in their 30's instead of 20's.
The naive youngsters must feel they don't need the juice. The oldsters are more realistic.
And Will, c'mon, you know this is not just about the abs. It is about the total package - age, looks, unbelievable performance.
I've been around track and field a long time. (Nobody even asked me about how I did in my last meet. sigh.)
Smoke - fire - incredible performances are not credible.
Yeah, maybe I'm cynical. Time will tell.
My further take from them is that she is simultaneously feared, hated and held in awe by her competitors.
All the a-holes of the world claim that they are disliked because of jealousy.
You can be amazingly competitive, amazingly focused, and amazingly intimidating without being universally disliked.
The real key is injury recovery.
And all the testing now will not reveal drugs taken to speed injury recovery six months ago.
Injuries are what make athletes retire.
I love training. Love it. But, I hurt my shoulder and it is easily re-injured. So I am limited in what I can do. (Plus, I am fat.)
She has been very aggressive (as she seemingly is in all things) in counteracting the drug rumors, volunteering to be some manner of drug testing guinea pig.
Tripp, maybe time will prove you right, but she did volunteer for this, as, I think, did Phelps, which means testing her blood and urine like every 5 minutes.
(Fi? I demand that you not only spell it "fiancée," but pronounce it fee-on-SAY.)
Sir Kraab, only the old people recognize your reference. Kids these days!
Tripp, maybe time will prove you right, but she did volunteer for this, as, I think, did Phelps, which means testing her blood and urine like every 5 minutes.
It isnt performance enhancement that I question. She has the ability and she has the support.
It is injury recovery. That is why her drug testing now doesn't exactly impress me.
Will, can you rank the Olympic swimmers in terms of assholery? this would be useful information for my incipient/nascent sports blog.
wait, I think there is already a sports blog. Well, tell us anyway. Very interesting.
Will, can you rank the Olympic swimmers in terms of assholery?
No more than I can rank Olympic swimmers (or elected officials) in terms of whether they are good, family people.
OK, do that too. but which elected officials?
45, 48: Yeah, and it is kind of funny the comments made by the trainer in that article:
"Look at the way her scapula is traveling!" O'Brien enthused, noting the place where she just had an operation. "Dara repairs 10 times faster than most athletes. Considering her age and the length of time she's been training, it's pretty amazing."
I mean, some people are genetic freaks. Apparently Schwarzenagger had the metabolism of a mutant even before the 'roids. But still, crazy.
48: Will, what kind of drugs help with injury recovery? Steroids, or something else? I don't know much about the actual chemistry of these things.
HGH
also, being frozen in some sort of waxy ice. Don't see Wanted, by the way. it is far worse than Beowulf.
52: I hear Jesse Helms spent hours dandling his (acknowledged, white, straight) grandchildren on his knee.
All the a-holes of the world claim that they are disliked because of jealousy.
Dara don't come to the meet to make friends.
and yet he voted against all Supreme Court justices who wanted to legalize dandling.
30: You're right, she had to nurse to get a more streamlined shape.
I still say she is hott.
When Roy Jones Jr. has to make weight for a fight, he doesn't just have a smaller person nearby who can suck fluid from his body. This woman is breaking all kinds of rules of sportsmanship. Soon everyone will be having babies just before their important athletic events.
I am not suggesting that she used drugs.
I am simply saying that her current drug testing should not be viewed as conclusive proof that she has not been assisted in some way by some substance.
I'd think (hope) that the breastfeeding is the biggest argument against her being juiced.
Being an aging athlete (I like the category of "Master") I've picked up a fair amount of info on training and injury recovery. They know a lot but they still don't know everything. Alas.
Anyway when I said "juice" most people think of steroids and that is the most common but there are other methods.
Back to injury recovery - it depends on the injury. testosterone or other steroids definitely help your muscles recover faster from minor injuries, including the normal injuries caused by training. They won't help with broken bones, and they will have limited use for the recovery of tendons, ligaments, and cartilage. Their are still unknowns.
Many serious weight lifters use deep tissue massage to try to break up any scar tissue that is forming between the muscle fibers. I've tried it. It hurts. It is not for me.
In my opinion many professional football players juice and train in the off season to bulk up. During the regular season they are subject to random tests so they stop the juicing. That is why during the long season they tend to 'wear down.' They can't maintain what they had without the juice.
Because juicing and the use of performance enhancing drugs (or even the injection of one's own hemoglobin stored earlier) is hard to detect and must be detected while it is happening the only truly effective proof of being off the juice is frequent random blood and urine tests. Scheduled tests are easily fooled.
When Roy Jones Jr. has to make weight for a fight, he doesn't just have a smaller person nearby who can suck fluid from his body.
He does, but semen doesn't weigh that much.
63: There are fairly frequent random urine tests for olympic athletes, since they're under the WADA. The tests have to be administered by a medical professional, who basically agrees to be callable at anytime during any day and sent to an athlete's house. Once there, the doctor has to stick with the athlete at all times until they actually see the athlete piss into the two urine sample cups, which are sent to two different labs for analysis.
A family friend did this for a while, and has a couple hilarious stories from when the athlete had a shy bladder, including one time when he ended up dragged to a wedding where the guy was the best man.
He does, but semen doesn't weigh that much.
Speak for yourself, man-lover!
And Will, why the reluctance to be judgmental? This is the internet, no?
People, people. Swimmers don't juice. They just wear increasingly fancy suits.
Po-Mo,
I hope your friend was aware of the Whizzinator. And when does one become an Olympic athlete subject to random drug tests? When one is selected to compete at the Olympics?
(or even the injection of one's own hemoglobin stored earlier)
Usually injection of one's cryogenically preserved red blood cells, not just the hemoglobin molecule.
I'd think (hope) that the breastfeeding is the biggest argument against her being juiced.
Wrong! She is giving her future 8-time gold medalist child a head start against the other children.
68: That's a good question. Probably depends on whether one's sport is covered by the WADA normally or only for the olympics. I wouldn't know about swimmers.
And yeah, I'm sure the testers were aware of the whizzinator. That's why they just showed up at the home unannounced for random testing, and were not allowed to leave the athlete's side until they got the urine sample. I mean, there are only so many precautions one can take, but it was a pretty impressive-sounding set of rules.
67: Clearly, the only solution is to make them all swim naked.
Tripp:
I am not willing to say that she is cheating because I believe that a 41 year old can do the things that she is doing without cheating.
Older athletes are doing amazing things.
5 or 6 years ago, I saw a 50 year old guy swim a 9:50 for a thousand free. (ie he had to hold :59 seconds per 100).
At that same meet, I had a 95 year old lady trash talk to me about how she was swimming the 1000 and I was only swimming the 200.
Nutrition. training methods. Computer assistance. Video-taping. Attitude. So many things have helped people continue to compete at high levels as they age.
Clearly, the only solution is to make them all swim naked.
In that case, please add a (female) fluffer to my training team on standby prior to any post-swim interviews.
I think that a lot of the effects of aging are the result of untreated injuries, various sorts of abuse and neglect, and inappropriate training methods.
Kareem, Nolan Ryan, and Gordie Howe all competed at the top level well into their forties. They couldn't match their earlier performances, and they no longer were the top players in their respective leagues, but they all still could outplay the vast majority of young guys.
re: 72
I was judging at a s avate competition a few months back, and one of the weight categories was won by a guy in his mid 50s [white hair and everything]. He beat a bunch of guys 20 - 30 years younger.
Will,
Fair enough. As I said, I consider the complete package, not just the athletic performance.
Aren't all those things you mention available to younger athletes? Why is she doubly exceptional?
FWIW, though, in elite sports -- swimming, cycling, Olympic events, etc., i.e. those where there's a significant depth of participation and serious financial incentives for the top younger athletes to compete -- I'd be pretty suspicious of anyone significantly outside the normal age range who continues to compete at the highest level.
74: Warren Moon for the Vikings and then other teams.
Still, a much older athlete that is near the best in the world against all athletes is very rare.
I just looked at the shot put records, because that's an area where older athlete compete. The recordholder, Randy Barnes, set the record in 1990 and was shortly afterwards banned from the Olympics for life for juicing, though his record apparently stands.
Before that time the oldest recordholder was Uli Beyer at 31.
During the 18 mediocre unjuiced years there have been recordholders aged 36, 33, 32, 31, and 30.
I just read something that clarified to me something that I had half-understood about doping in cycling. PEDs have been around forever, of course, but they were never game-changers as such - you couldn't leap-frog ahead, just do a little better. When EPO came in, in the early 90s, it was improving hematocrit (blood's O2 capacity) ~10%, which has a more-or-less straight line relationship with performance in a sport like cycling. Now you did have leap-frogging effects: a scrub who could never win a race on his own could consistently beat someone who would win the occasional race, and the occasional winner becomes an elite. At that point, it becomes almost literally impossible to compete clean - you simply never win anymore. This is why it took over the sport so completely - it was more or less impossible to keep your job if you were clean (interestingly, French teams have been the cleanest for over 10 years, and French riders became a joke, never winning anything. This year, the Tour is plainly cleaner than in the past, and the French riders and teams are much more competitive).
Anyway, I bring this up because what we've seen in the past 10-15 years is the science of doping getting much better, and leap-frog effects becoming more realizable. When you compare what Bonds did, in terms of doping technique, with what, say, Lenny Dykstra did in '88, it's night and day. Ball sports generally have too many compounding factors to create a bicycling-type atmosphere (a major league-quality batter can hold his own against a minor league-quality batter on the juice), but I think it's clear that, in most Olympic sports, leap-frog effects are achievable and presumably the norm, with anti-doping agencies able to keep up only in low-rent sports where no one can afford a $100k/yr doping regimen.
The discus record is now 22 years old, by an East German who eclipsed the earlier mark by 2+ meters. Olympic champions since then have tended to be 28+.
79: By "recordholders" I meant "year's best holders".
The 1986 GDR discus record was an unmistakable leapfrog.
Aren't all those things you mention available to younger athletes? Why is she doubly exceptional?
Trip, this assumes that the younger athlete should always beat the older athlete.
I don't agree with the assumption.
Moveover, as we age, we often know our bodies much better. Age gives one several advantages.
Di:
I am not 41 yet!!
The 1986 GDR discus record was an unmistakable leapfrog.
Well, to be clear on one point: sometimes leapfrogs do happen naturally - Bob Beamon being the iconic example.
But generally they are suspect, and the East Germans were, of course, famous for the intensity of their doping programs. I doubt their technology was especially advanced, but since the athletes were state-controlled, I think that the application was world-class.
Hmm. It occurs to me that the Golden Age of Doping began at the fall of the Iron Curtain. Probably coincidence. I'm not aware of any relationship between ex-Warsaw Block doping doctors and doping in the West.
I don't agree with the assumption.
It doesn't hold as an absolute rule. 23 year olds aren't a certainty to beat 25 year olds, and so on.
But it does hold more broadly. People in their early 40s generally aren't going to be able to compete with the best athletes 10 or 15 years younger than they are. It doesn't apply in quite the same way in sports that rely more on skill than pure athletic prowess, but it still applies.
I am somewhat conflicted in my whole attitude towards Torres, both the a-hole and drug accusations. In ways it mirrors my attitude towards Florence Griffith-Joyner (who was either the most unfairly maligned runner ever (who died an early death) or one of the earliest practitioners of the super-doping that JRoth describes). The gap between those two views is so extreme that you cannot really hold onto both. (Landis was there in my mind briefly.) Flo Jo shared with Torres the gaps in competition and the shocking reemergence (this is Torres second, 2000 was somewhat similar).
Also the few truly extreme world-class athletes and coaches that I have known at least were all utter assholes at the personal level, but it was also clear how they channeled that self-absorption into their results.
In my gut I think she probably did some kind of Flo-Jo routine in her hiati, but I have no proof.
Did everyone go on vacation? Why is it so slow here today. In Boston it's too hot and humid to "enjoy the summer weather," so the computer is much more attractive than venturing out.
Still, a much older athlete that is near the best in the world against all athletes is very rare.
Sure. But so is an athlete who's near the best in the world, period. But then, "exceptional athlete performs exceptionally" doesn't satisfy people emotionally somehow.
Why is it so slow here today.
Too hot to type. Also, swimming posts are DON'T LISTEN, WILL! boring.
re: 90
Yeah, but it's that double exception that makes it even more unlikely. Especially in popular sports with a lot of people participating.
It's not impossible, we can all probably think of great athletes with very long-lived careers, but I'd be surprised if many of them were contemporary athletes.
FWIW, btw, I know very little about Torres. She's not really someone who's hit the news here in the UK. My comments are just about older athletes in general.
I've met only one world class athlete in my life, Rick Sanders the wrestling silver medalist (twice), and he was a super nice guy. Over the years I ran into several people who knew him better than I did, and the reports were unanimous.
This goes against my personal belief that most highly successful people are driven and obsessive, and that most driven, obsessive people are jerks and creeps. I can rescue my theory by arguing that American Olympic wrestling is one of the purest of sports, with little bling involved.
People also told be that Sanders was a game-changer both for American wrestling and even for wrestling worldwide. (Scuttlebutt, no link). He died in a Yugoslav auto accident not long after his second silver. Yugoslav drivers are crazy.
Also the few truly extreme world-class athletes and coaches that I have known at least were all utter assholes at the personal level
In my experience with elite athletes, that has been true more often than not.
89: Carnal desires, BG. I try to warn people, but right now they're off pleasuring themselves any way they can. My transformational message has found the Unfoggetariat to be hard ground indeed.
There isn't much bling from rowing either. No real lucrative endorsements, and there aren't any stars in a boat.
I've met some very good rowers who were jerks, but most weren't. People who break course records and compete in the Olympics often plan to go on to business school and medical school.
I can rescue my theory by arguing that American Olympic wrestling is one of the purest of sports, with little bling involved.
And indeed, Kurt Angle was supposed to be a super-nice guy. Terrible sports anchor, but nice guy.
http://www.rhubarbpie.typepad.com/
Whoo!
100: And Kobe is a fucking prince!
Sure. But so is an athlete who's near the best in the world, period. But then, "exceptional athlete performs exceptionally" doesn't satisfy people emotionally somehow.
I think the interesting part is "person's body does not decline with age".
101: Don't be fooled. He has little to say about rhubarb pie.
My transformational message has found the Unfoggetariat to be hard ground indeed.
I still believe in your message John.
So Torres is swimming markedly faster today, at the age of 41 and training full time, than she was in 1992, at the age of 25 and training full time. Since she's been swimming her entire life, she was experienced at both ages.
Does that seem natural to people?
98: A fair number of top rowers I met were jerks, but I think that's also because rowing was so respected at my college. Always rarer to be nice if you're big man on campus.
I'm also confounded by the lack of commenting today, since I really don't want to get this work done. Shouldn't all these people be sating their carnal desires after work?
79: Shot-putting
John,
Precisely. I shot put. My son did a report on the sport. He asked my the Olympic performances peaked and declined (I can't recall exactly when, sometime in the 70's I think). That is when they started testing for juice.
You mention Randy Barnes as well.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
Will,
Moveover, as we age, we often know our bodies much better. Age gives one several advantages.
Bwahahahahahahahaha. Oh man. Se me when you are fifty. Then sixty.
C'mon, quit kidding around. Elite athletes know their bodies very well, even as a young adult.
Yeah, some couch potato slob can coast and then shape up and be better at 40 then he was at 20 but he won't be as good at 40 as an elite 20-year old.
I sympathize with your sentiment, and one thing that has kept me going in Masters (now Senior) track and field is the brilliant attitude and camaraderie of the older athletes. They are friendly and yet serious about what they are doing and they are very inspirational but they are also realistic. They mostly compete with themselves.
Also the few truly extreme world-class athletes and coaches that I have known at least were all utter assholes at the personal level, but it was also clear how they channeled that self-absorption into their results.
This has not been my experience with elite athletes. In swimming, I've known and trained with several Olympic gold medalists and know a couple world record holders (former now).
I also know a couple of elite cyclists and triathletes.
In my relatively narrow experience, 75 percent were very enjoyable personally.
Before continuing this discussion, we should all realize that Will is an asshole and that Tripp is juiced. Thus, their testimony may be unreliable.
107: It depends on what you do for work.
tripp:
I simply do not think that you can compare what we were able to do with our bodies and our training twenty years ago with what we can do now.
I was a good swimmer. Not great, but a small fish in big ponds. I trained with people who were at the elite level. I did the elite level training.
It simply doesn't compare with what we know now. Video taping was only done sporadically. Nutrition consisted of the book Eat to Win. Science simply hadn't been applied to the sport in the thorough, dedicated way it is now.
So, an elite swimmer in the late 80s left a lot on the table, even at their best swims. It does not surprise me that you could tap into that potential now and show improvement.
Will,
I agree with you. I just think the rising tide of better training, etc lifts all boats, young and old.
Out of curiosity has your performance increased compared to the younger you?
On the elite athlete as asshole question -- here's a theory: Assholes who happen to be elite athletes are almost certain to make sure you know they are elite athletes. Others may very well be elite and you never know it because they aren't assholes who go around talking about their eliteness.
Out of curiosity has your performance increased compared to the younger you?
Yes. But viagra is legal.
With regard to swimming, I injured my shoulder during college. So I've never applied anywhere near the same level of training.
What is your track event?
On the elite athlete as asshole question -- here's a theory: Assholes who happen to be elite athletes are almost certain to make sure you know they are elite athletes. Others may very well be elite and you never know it because they aren't assholes who go around talking about their eliteness.
Di! I made clear that I was not an elite athlete!
Will,
What is your track event?
100m, 200m, shotput, discus, javelin, with the field events being my best. The sprints are really just an after thought.
I was excited to find out about the Senior Olympics (although I hate the word Senior) because the results are kept globally. Otherwise local events or the State Games of America events are published but not really tabulated.
Tripp, do you find that your sprint juicing interferes with your weights juicing?
I wish that swimming had a Clydesdale Division. Running and tri's were wise to add it.
Tripp, do you find that your sprint juicing training interferes with your weights juicing training?
We regret the error.
I was excited to find out about the Senior Olympics (although I hate the word Senior)
Is "Fogey" really any better? Though I suspect once I hit my late 50s, I will find myself liking the word "coot" just as much as Emerson.
Out of curiosity has your performance increased compared to the younger you?
Will can now get a divorce finalized before the "kiss the bride" is complete. It's all in his superior training.
119: They figure the extra flotation helps you, especially if you specialize in backstroke.
I think "codger" has a nice ring to it.
John,
I'm too poor to afford the under-the-counter juice, and my Doctor won't prescribe me some because "I don't need it." Whey protein and creatine are all I use.
One misconception many people have is that juice is all it takes to improve performance. Juice allows one to train harder with better results. Juice without the training won't do much except put pimples on the back and shrink the nads.
put pimples on the back and shrink the nads.
Wow, it's like recreating the feeling of asking a girl to the prom!
So your nuts fell off for some other reason, Tripp?
You can speak frankly to us, Tripp. We're on your side. But we need to know the facts.
People in their early 40s generally aren't going to be able to compete with the best athletes 10 or 15 years younger than they are. It doesn't apply in quite the same way in sports that rely more on skill than pure athletic prowess, but it still applies.
This guy has stayed at a pretty incredible level despite being old and, when not training hard, kinda fat (beer is not necessarily performance-enhancing). It's partly that he excels in races where skill matters a lot, but he's also just a pretty incredible athlete.
Long ago I met people who knew the legendary kayaker John Day, who was competing into his fifties. By their descriptions he seemed to be the larger than life charismatic asshole type.
Oscar's larger than life and charismatic; opinions differ as to whether he's an asshole. I tend to think not, but I don't know him, just people who've paddled/worked/dealt with him.
88: Also the few truly extreme world-class athletes and coaches that I have known at least were all utter assholes at the personal level
Thinking about this some more, I realize I have overstated.
1) Far and away the most assholish and driven were two absolute top of their profession coaches (swimming & basketball), the athletes less so.
2) I managed to overlook 3 absolute top athletes (1 track & field and 2 figure skating!) that I met in other circumstances who were very down to earth. For future reference: I lie to make my points.
Hey, you're an asshole too, Stormcrow.
132: Don't flatter yourself Mikey.
And sure I'm an asshole, but a drifting, aimless one. More pathetic, but less objectionable (if you aren't depending on me for anything that is).
and 2 figure skating!) that I met in other circumstances who were very down to earth
Tonya Harding is famously down-to-earth; I don't know of any other elite figure skaters who can rebuild a truck transmission. Arguably an asshole, though.
134: Is she still in the area? Maybe visiting candidates can rebuild a transmission with her to prove their white working-class cred.
135: Still around, AFAIK. I'd like to see her go mano a mano with McCain, but she'd wax his ass for certain.
