It's all on a very directed track, under my control. When it comes to discussions, I feel like I can't mandate a pace that keeps me engaged.
I was at a conference recently held at an elite B-School, though attended overwhelmingly by non B-School types. One of the speakers began his talk by saying that he had to go to immense efforts to locate a lectern to speak from, because, he was told, the faculty at this B-School did not lecture from behind a lectern. It was a far more open, facilitative and communicative process, he was told, "perhaps best thought of", he said, "as 'hegemonic discussion.'"
When I taught and the discussion dragged, I just let them know they were making me feel insecure and unloved. Most of them rather liked me, so they faked their way through discussion -- fake it till you make it -- to make me feel better. I learned the guilt trip method of pedagogy from my mother.
Does "it's so slow" mean "it takes so agonizingly long for a room full of freshmen to fumble their way through an elementary set of conclusions, with many false starts and sometimes false conclusions"? Or does it mean "there are so many pauses and it's hard to get people to talk"?
Because if it's the latter, I will for the forty-seventh time endorse B's brilliant Post-It-note strategy. I would link to it, but I am on borrowed wireless and borrowed time.
the easy cure to slow discussions is to cold call and humiliate. makes the time fly for me, anyway.
3 - it means the former. They're happy to talk, and I can get everyone in the room to participate by saying, "Someone we haven't heard from yet..." There aren't any super timid kids in the class. But the fumbling! The restatements of the same goddamn thing the previous kid said!
"it takes so agonizingly long for a room full of freshmen to fumble their way through an elementary set of conclusions, with many false starts and sometimes false conclusions"? Or does it mean "there are so many pauses and it's hard to get people to talk"?
When you are actually there, the contrast between these two situations couldn't be stronger. In one case, people talk a lot, relating things back to their own short experience, but generally say things that are irrelevant or make no sense. In the other case, people are sleeping, texting, or staring.
These are really only the two outcomes when teaching undergrads at non-elite institutions. The first outcome counts as winning, the second and losing. Someone who isn't trying will never learn. People who stay engaged and keep trying will ultimately find some knowledge that solves their needs, that moves them forward in life.
6 cross posted with 5.
You're doing fine Heebie. Just let the little babies keep trying to pull themselves up on the furniture. Be sure they don't pull anything down on their heads, and wait for them to start walking on their own.
5: Threaten to fail anyone who says "um," "uh" or "perhaps."
The first book was "Idiot in a Canoe", right? What was the second text? The procrastination one?
It's funny, most teachers don't to seem to have these problems Heebie talks about.
Well, you know what the math book said to the history book.
1. "perhaps best thought of", he said, "as 'hegemonic discussion.'"
Sounds lot like "dictatorship of the proletariat," which seems inappropriate for a B-School.
re: 8
Until they get to graduate level seminars, when the 'um', 'uh' and 'perhaps' begin to be deployed as weapons.
Probably Heebie's just been been having a statistically-possible string of bad days, like in one of those science fiction stories.
The odd thing is that pregnancy among physically normal humans hardly ever happens in science fiction stories.
I thought that Jammies was some kind of alien.
What seemed to work for some of my profs was focusing the questions more. Kinda dampens the whole free-form aspect, but, tradeoffs.
Well, you know what the math book said to the history book.
"Lipstick."
Well, you know what the math book said to the history book.
Fuck you, clown.
Maybe I should have used quotation marks there.
6, 7: I'm with Rob. It all sounds about right for freshmen or a non-elite institution. Get them to participate, sorry if it's slow for you; just how it is. The job is to facilitate discussion and then structure their remarks for them.
Gonerill's comment 1 is freaking me out.
Traditionally, in my department, the quietest, least interesting, most hapless of my colleagues takes the task of teaching the "Welcome to College" class. We like to start boring students right off the bat.
Populuxe is also a professor? Cripes.
"Well, you know what the math book said to the history book. "
"What's your Dewey Decimal Number?"
"Well, you know what the math book said to the history book."
"Can I get a date?"
"Well, you know what the math book said to the history book. "
"Pshaw. Applied numbers. How gauche."
Populuxe is also a professor? Cripes.
I have managed to avoid those duties, mercifully.
28: It's not funny if it's actually funny, heebie.
The fumbling and repeating others thing is kind of standard. You can get a little bit less of it by being really super duper prepared and, when someone hits an important idea, pausing to really emphasize it and then following up with a question that leads them in another direction.
I confess that I haven't had the energy to be that prepared on a consistent basis in about five years, though.
I've heard that if your life starts violating the laws of chance, there's nothing much the doctors can do but give you aspirin. Apparently when the statistics go, they never come back. Sort of like having a bad back.
"Well, you know what the math book said to the history book."
"That M/tch is such a wet blanket."
I call them opportunities, Emerson, because I like to grow as a person.
Is a person with a growth better off?
Did you know the Chinese character for "problem" is made up of the symbols for "scrubbing" and "bubbles"?
You can get a little bit less of it by being really super duper prepared and, when someone hits an important idea, pausing to really emphasize it and then following up with a question that leads them in another direction.
Right. Write the important points on the board when they come up. This is called, um, directing discussion.
40: Yeah, I do that. They seem very exceeding obvious to me, though.
The linguistic roots of the word "problem" become more apparent if you understand the components: "mank" and "ind". They're a mystery, and that's why so are problems.
See, if you only prepared for class the way you prepare for these threads, heebie, you'd have no problems (other than the occasional what is called, um, condescending pedantry).
Heebie, remember that the odds are that these kids are not only less conversationally sophisticated than you are now, they are less conversationally sophisticated than you were when you were their age.
I choose the word "conversationally" as carefully as I can with a 3 year old around. The problem isn't intellectual sophistication in itself. Their problem comes from being able to listen to and respond to others, without thinking about themselves. This skill is often used as a litmus test for intellectual depth, although it is really only one aspect of it.
I've been trying to develop techniques for teaching how to ask really good questions. I think emphasizing the aspects of conversation not normally treated in logic and critical thinking is a key area for improvement.
A math teacher without problems is no math teacher. That's the specific problem Heebledy is facing. I can see her breaking down crying and screaming "I'm sorry! I'm sorry! I don't have any problems for you! No problems! I can't teach math any more!"
And then the students would say "I din't think that math teachers had emotions. I thought that they were coldblooded like reptiles."
45: That's not very good slash fiction at all, Emerson.
44 - good points. I really do hope they're getting something useful out of all of this.
Well, you know what the math book said to the history book.
"What's your trick, dude?. I can't even get girls to look at me."
Slash fiction has to involve *two* people that haven't hooked up in real life &/v the story you are reading.
"McManus/Heebie" is slash.
"Heebie/some random student" is not slash.
"Tweety/Blume" was once slash.
Oddly, the "reptile brain" is the source of the hotblooded, stupid emotions. Science is fun.
49: Well, non slash fiction is bad slash fiction, right?
Education is like nutrition. We know there is something good for you in here. But all attempts to isolate a single magic nutrient have failed, and no one can explain how all these different ingredients interact.*
In situations like this, the best thing to do is to stick with the traditional diet in all its heterogeneity and randomness, and hope that the magic gets there.
___
* Example: The thought that beta carotene prevented cancer, because carrots in your diet correlated with lower cancer rates. But it turned out that beta carotene on its own didn't do anything for cancer.
I would never hook up with a random student.
Jammies was not a random student. He was chosen because he's the sum of two primes.
Jammies was the captain of the soccer team! Is the captain of my soccer team, I mean.
Have you tried corporal punishment?
I hope the rest of the team doesn't resent you for getting undeserved playing time.~
The rest of the team resents Jammies for getting undeserved playing time.
They seem very exceeding obvious to me, though.
Well, yes, of course. That's why you're the one teaching the class.
When I was teaching low-level English in Taiwan, I heavily favored the students who were the least little bit interesting. That wasn't good teaching, though, because I wasn't supposed to be teaching any kind of content, I was just supposed to bring them up to speed in basic English.
It's funny in a way: when I've taught classes for students who are coming from all over the place, who are engaged but don't know where to go with it, I don't find myself mind-dead over it (unless it's really, really bad, but then that would be my fault), but rather really on my toes.
You have to be "on": in the best courses I taught for that level of students, I wrote a sort of discussion outline (bullet points, really) on the board when I got to class. I made us all refer to it. Helped a lot to foster a sense that we were trying, collectively, to get somewhere. For the course Heebie's teaching, that might be a little too directive, though.
Use the Foghorn Leghorn voice when things get slow. WE HEARD THAT ALREADY, SON, GOT ANYTHING NEW?
5/:
They're happy to talk, and I can get everyone in the room to participate by saying, "Someone we haven't heard from yet..." There aren't any super timid kids in the class. But the fumbling! The restatements of the same goddamn thing the previous kid said!
Sounds like every other business meeting I've ever attended.
John,
I'm pretty sure emotions come later than the reptile brain. The reptile brain is ritual and instinct and smell. Emotions are after that, but before reasoning.
Being in the reptile brain can be fun, like a vacation. Same with then emotional brain. Like the Vegas strip I think they are fun to visit but I wouldn't want to live there.
And Heebie, I know just what you mean. One of the biggest burdens of being an Alpha is being around the betas and gammas. The Deltas are not so bad actually, cause they don't really waste our time. Give me an amusing delta over a tedious beta any day.
I like the phrase "hegemonic discussion." Brad deLong called it the Germanic Model (for weblog comments sections, to be sure, but applicable):
The Germanic Model: The weblog proprietor is Herr Doktor Professor or Frau Doktorin Professorin. The proprietor runs the virtual seminar with an iron hand, eager to have students bring out the important points (for they are much more likely to be remembered when they emerge out of the seminar than when they are handed down from on high), but still more eager to make sure that the important points are brought out and that the seminar discussion is kept on track.