I meant to mention that, turns out, the weirdest thing is hearing my own voice. I still sound funny, after all these years.
But, holy shit would I have trouble being consistently in front of a camera and then trying to remember exactly what I said.
Are you just trying to establish plausible deniability for some upcoming testimony, Stanley?
3: I don't even remember writing this comment. Fact.
I still sound funny, after all these years.
Not so much funny as unfamiliar. When you listen to a recording of your voice, you aren't hearing the reverberations from your sinuses and facial bones that characterize the sound of your voice in your own ears when you are speaking.
5: I guess you've never heard Stanley's voice.
I have a rather flat voice, so I feel justified in finding it unpleasant to hear. I don't know how AB can stand it.
I have a voice like a late-night Quiet Storm DJ.
That's how I hear your comments in my head, complete with the hushed thunder in the background.
That's excellent, baby. Now just lay back and enjoy this thread.
Wouldn't it make more sense to worry about what you're about to say than what you've said?
11: Well, I worried about that, too, sillyhead.
That's similar to my big break on TV. It was a puff piece on a local morning news program for work. They came by and watched me do what I do. I stumbled once, blathered soothingly, and got one good line off. I still haven't brought myself to actually watch the thing.
The thing that really helped me out was that I was physically working at the beginning of it, so I had a plausible reason to be sweating.
You should have been worrying about Darfur and global warming too. You just have a terribly narrow, selfish perspective.
Oy. I find my voice hideously unpleasant in recordings (high pitched and breathy, but in a cartoon duck rather than a Marilyn Monroe kind of way), and I'm particularly self-conscious about it because I just came from oral argument on a big case.
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No more masturbating to everyone's favorite home of eyeball-cutting web design and rage-inducing popup ads.
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14: John, I tried to work a carp angle into the thing, but I'm telling you, the reporter had laser-like focus.
I have a genuinely unpleasant voice, I think. My ex-wife inadvertently (?) compared it to Neil Young's singing voice in the process of saying that she hated Neil Young's singing voice.
18: Well, John, lots of women love Neil Young's singing voice. You just happened to marry one of the ones that doesn't.
My voice is apparently more attractive than my person. Several women have openly expressed disappointment when they met me after having heard my voice.
I have a voice like a late-night Quiet Storm DJ.
You're the Rev. Walt "Baby" Love, aren't you?
You're the Rev. Walt "Baby" Love, aren't you?
Rev. Walt "Baby" Love: We don't play the explicit, filthy versions of the songs.
Obviously not me.
How this thread ended up with me at this video is not an interesting story, but you should watch it anyhow.
It's the verbal tics and stumbles that always freak me out. You don't even notice too much when you slip up slightly in conversation and roll into a correction, nor does the person you're speaking to, but it just looks odd on television. I think part of the reason is that you're being put into direct comparison with people who were specifically chosen for their ability to speak steadily, without noticeable filler, and without jumping thoughts on camera. That they've often got pre-scripted remarks or are running the interview certainly doesn't help.
That said, being on tape instead of live is always a life-saver. Your 5-15 minutes of footage will be cut down to a minute of airtime, tops, and the producer probably has no interest in making you look like a fool.
The producer probably has no interest in making you look like a fool.
I would never think that way. I would assume the opposite until proven wrong.
25: Is anybody surprised that John would have that attitude?
For the past 6 or 7 years (since the mistake has been plausible) callers on the phone have assumed that I am one of my sons often asking if "my dad" is there. So I apparently have the phone voice of a teenager.
callers on the phone have assumed that I am one of my sons often asking if "my dad" is there.
Telemarketers always call me "ma'am."
My voice is slightly nasal, but I don't think it's notably feminine.
It's always annoying that one's recorded voice fails to match the voice in one's head. None of the body resonance, etc, so it always sounds higher pitched and thinner.
29: Exactly. I want to get vocal coaching before going into oral arguments because I'm afraid I wouldn't be taken seriously with the voice I hear played back to me. It took three tries to get my voicemail message at work to sound professional instead of tinny.
re: 30
I have been told I have an attractive voice, more than once. But the voice I hear in my head is still quite different from the one I hear on 'tape'.
I did have some voice-coaching for telephone use when I worked doing telephone stuff for a bank. It was quite useful, I think. My 'phone' voice is bad-ass.
You're probably not as bad as you think you are. From experience, I do fine despite the voice.
I would like vocal coaching, though. You know who has a great voice? AWB -- she's got this astonishingly clear diction and ability to project audibly without shouting, and from stuff she's said, I believe it's at least partially due to theatre/voice training. As a breathy mumbler, I'd love to sound like that, but I've never quite psyched myself up for finding a vocal coach. (And of course, I don't really need it professionally. It just seems like it'd be an improvement.)
25: Is anybody surprised that John would have that attitude?
He has the advantage of being correct.
32 to 30.
to 31:I have been told I have an attractive voice, more than once.
By people from Unfogged, no less. But Americans don't count -- most of us react that way to anyone with an attractive accent.
re: 34
It works on other Brits, thankfully.*
* to the extent that it works at all.
Check out "Stop Yer Tickling Jock" for a full dose of insanity.
People have told me I have a voice for radio (and a face to match!), but when I hear it on tape it sounds excruciatingly nasal. A few nights ago I was listening to some audio from the long walk I went on and noticed that the guy leading the group has the same kind of quality to his voice that I find objectionable, so at least listening to the two of us talking I can reassure myself that I'm not the only freak out there.
Nosflow is on these same recordings with a very nice-sounding voice. And it's true what Liz says about AWB.
People have told me I have a voice for radio (and a face to match!), but when I hear it on tape it sounds excruciatingly nasal.
Sounds like you've got a voice for "This American Life". The only regular contributor to that show whose voice calls up a mental image of someone who weighs more than 120 pounds is Jack Hitt.
25, 33: I admit that I have had the advantage of being pulled on as an "expert" the couple times I've been on TV. In those cases, the producer generally doesn't want to make you look like a fool because it would make them look like a bad producer for putting such a stupid and unhelpful expert into their segment.
Still, for a human interest fluff piece? If you avoid saying anything downright foolish they'll probably prefer to put a flattering piece together since there won't be enough footage for something entertainingly disastrous.
37: Huh. Nasal isn't wrong, but your voice isn't nasal in an unpleasant way; it manages to be nasal without sounding whiny at all.
Heh. I once organized and hosted a panel at a Mormon-studies symposium based on the TAL format. It was back in the late '90s, when I was completely obsessed with the show, and I found that by pitching my voice higher than usual I could absolutely embody the disembodied voice of Ira Glass.
the same kind of quality
Yikes. If I can't get my Unfogged comments right, I'll never make it in a live broadcast situation.
AWB -- she's got this astonishingly clear diction and ability to project audibly without shouting, and from stuff she's said, I believe it's at least partially due to theatre/voice training.
Running out the door, but would like to say, aw shucks! I hated hearing my voice when I was younger, but can appreciate it better now.
Bave's voice is a very sexy baritone. We have discussed doing audio porn.
I once talked to a Guyanese woman on the phone who had such a great accent, it made my knees weak. Best accent ever.
I met up with a former Unfogged commentator* a couple of years ago and was shocked/stunned at his voice. Which was almost parodically nerdy/nasal. I don't want to say who because it would be insulting/rude. But I just didn't expect the voice [which didn't match the appearance or what was being said].
* no longer comments here, I believe.
CA has a lovely baritone voice. I sound like a giddy teenager. I was interviewed on All Things Considered and wanted to die of shame.
You just happened to marry one of the ones that doesn't.
I've married two of the ones that doesn't.
I sound like a ditzy valley girl with a pretentious overlay of overenunciation. Years ago I bought a dictaphone, thinking that talking through my ideas would help me write papers, but I could not stand to listen to the tapes: so painful.
I sound like a ditzy valley girl with a pretentious overlay of overenunciation.
Yes. This. I am surprised my students don't choke me.
27: often asking if "my dad" is there
What I meant to say: I'm 17 where it counts.
The Unfoggetariat should be informed that at age 62 I've just got my first sinus problem ever. I've always heard people talking about sinus problems without knowing what they were. I do not recommend them.
I've had a persistent sniffle forever, probably an allergy, but this is new. Presumably it's just part of the progressive auto-deconstruction of my physical form.
I had my very first (and so far, only) sinus infection last year. I had no idea just how unpleasant they are.
51: Sorry to hear about that, John. At this rate of degeneration you may not live to see your 200th birthday.
Actually, I'm the same way about heartburn. It seems like I must have had it, but I really don't know what it is. Maybe someday I'll have it, and then I'll know.
51: Try a neti pot. I've been sniffly my whole goddam life, and it's made a huge difference. Took a while to get started, and it is really gross, but it's gotten to the point where at the end of a day where I have the sniffles I'm waiting impatiently to get home and fix it by pouring a pint of water through my nose.
I'm waiting impatiently to get home and fix it by pouring a pint of water through my nose.
IYKWIMAITYD
46: I sound like a giddy teenager. I was interviewed on All Things Considered and wanted to die of shame.
It may be my imagination, but it's been seeming to me that there are increasing numbers of female commentators on NPR who sound like, uh, giddy teenagers. It's weird; they sound super-young although in fact I think any number of them are in their 30s.
I'd begun to wonder if this was a new way of speaking among the younger female set. It's particularly disconcerting to listen to when the commentator/interviewer is talking about something rather serious.
Try a neti pot.
Ayup. But don't' do what I just now did with my neti pot (added too much salt). HOLY CRAP! TEH BURNING!!!
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If anybody out there with JSTOR access were to email the full text of this article to me, I would be eternally grateful.
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But don't' do what I just now did with my neti pot (added too much salt). HOLY CRAP! TEH BURNING!!!
Also I find that sea salt burns less than iodized salt.
I'd begun to wonder if this was a new way of speaking among the younger female set.
Indeed, younger female (and to a lesser extent, male) speakers of American English tend to produce more rising intonations than their older counterparts. Many of us associate this dialect feature with giddy teenagerhood, but as speakers age, the divide is no longer aligned with adolescence vs. adulthood. But that's not really the same thing as "a new way of speaking among the younger female set," which suggests a deliberately adopted passing fashion.
60: Hmmm...maybe George Will could get a column out of this -- like denim, this could be a sign of Americans' pathological refusal to grow up.
as speakers age, the divide is no longer aligned with adolescence vs. adulthood
I'm not quite understanding this. As speakers *these days* age, the divide is no longer aligned? So that women in their 20s and 30s may now tend to speak that way as well (maybe because it's not as deprecated as it once was)? Is that it?
62: Right. If it's a characteristic of people born in the 1980s, until recently it would have been a characteristic of teenagers only. Now it's a characteristic of twenty-somethings. And so on. Kind of the way rock and roll isn't that damn music the kids listen to anymore.
58: Okay, I just downloaded the pdf. Where do I send it?
58: Oops, sorry, I just realized that there's an e-mail address attached to your pseud. If that's the wrong address, let me know. Otherwise, you should have it by now, compliments of the University of California (I asked John Yoo if he thought it was okay to send you the article. He had no problem with the idea.)
Yes, as LB says. Speakers age, they largely retain their dialects, the dialects are magically transformed into no longer being the dialect of teenagers. It's not because it's not deprecated, it's because the same people speak (largely) the same dialects over time. What I'm saying is that this is a dialect feature, not just a "talking young" feature.
Okay rfts, we are convinced. The fact that you talk like Moon Unit Zappa does not make you sound unprofessional.
63, 66: Okay. Makes sense, obviously. Still sounds weird to me! But it would be the case that it would sound weird primarily (only?) to those of us older than the group in question. Huh.
She comments just like a woman, but she "likes" just like a little girl.
(only?) to those of us older than the group
Well, y'all and space aliens.
Ari rules, as does the lurker who also sent me the pdf. Thanks to both.
Okay rfts, we are convinced. The fact that you talk like Moon Unit Zappa does not make you sound unprofessional.
Totally.
LizardBreath @ 32.1 -- thanks.
39: Still, for a human interest fluff piece?
If it were the TV equivalent of those NYT sneak attack pieces about upper-income folks, John Emerson has the right attitude of paranoia.
74: Yeah, but no one has a good reason to sneak attack Stanley's band. He's just too gosh darn lovable.
I once did some American radio, and the joke is that my voice, which sounds OK on English radio, sounded really, fantastically, weak and (as my daughter said) gay beside all those mayunly baritones which are apparently obligatory if you're going to talk professionally into an American microphone. Then I developed in self-defense the theory that the English officer class accent was a costly signal, like wearing shorts in winter. But I still hate my voice when recorded because it sounds nothing like the voice I think of as my own, and hear in my head when I am writing. Because, essentially, that's the voice from which I take dictation, and it's the one I want other people to hear. Whic is an odd sense of "mine".
Oh dear. The end of a long week, and I am exhausted.
76: A long week I'm sure -- but a pretty good one, no?
Congratulations!
Then I developed in self-defense the theory that the English officer class accent was a costly signal, like wearing shorts in winter.
Dude, costly signals are so gay.
Yeah, but no one has a good reason to sneak attack Stanley's band. He's just too gosh darn lovable.
But if they weren't intent on mockery, why did they talk to the drummer?
In light of 71, it occurs to me: I can now legitimately claim that lurkers support me in email.
or, rather, !stargnoc.
I like the way the word looks either way.
one eventful week it was it seems for all, congrats
all eventees
Foxy's right (and I sound like a fast-talking valley girl, too).
It would appear that I have a paced, alto voice. Some of this may be due to something like what ttaM said in 31:
I did have some voice-coaching for telephone use when I worked doing telephone stuff for a bank. It was quite useful, I think. My 'phone' voice is bad-ass.
I did telemarketing for a solar energy company back when, and what they taught me -- to speak more slowly than you think you need to, among other things -- seems to have taken. This has come up here before.
Anyway, alto. I had occasion to speak to a New York mile-a-minute talking person on the phone today: man, slow down! Spell your name, please! Let me read that back to you. In a slow, measured tone.
Nworb: there is nothing more gay than the standard issue US male radio baritone.
Congratulations Nworb!
(What is it exactly that we're congratulating him on.)
Congratulations Nworb! Very impressive.
I had occasion to speak to a New York mile-a-minute talking person on the phone today: man, slow down!
I love the way New Yorkers talk, I really do.
It's fine in person. On the phone, with a stranger, not so much.
Evidently, we all now need to go out and learn about Swedish political life!
Also, British people seem to be able to just cruise into American speaking roles. The other day while NPR was being annoying, I tuned into the Rush Limbaugh program for shits and giggles and was astonished to hear a Oxbridge-type voice subbing in. He was guffawing about being an illegal alien and plummily proclaiming his love for like the tenth amendment or some shit.
M/tch & I were just looking at the Flickr pool -- for no particular reason; it's not like we just uploaded some fabulous photos of ourselves in '40's-era garb -- and, as I have remarked before, there are lots of pseuds that don't obviously correspond to pseuds used on threads.
I DEMAND TO KNOW WHO THESE PEOPLE ARE:
jjesterb
perca fluviatilis
epugachev
twintom
pharc
cjbakker
Please?
Those are cute photos. Also,
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Yoooooouuuuuuuuk!
I'm sorry that my girls, having just gone to bed, missed out on an opportunity to learn what a walk-off home run is, but I was reading the Sermon on the Mount to S during the 10th inning, and she thought it was pretty great. He's telling people to give their shirts to people who steal their coats? That's funny.
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94: Don't talk shit about the tenth amendment. Furthermore, yooooouuuuk!, and nnnnnwooorb!, respectively.
And, 95: Where is your secret stash of geeblet pics, and why are they not on the pool?
98: You'll get the pics when we get the info requested in 95, fm.
95: Two on your list are revealed near the bottom of the "Apparently, one can 'post' a 'topic'" thread in the Flickr pool.
jjesterb: A private investigator
perca fluviatilis: His saucy secretary
epugachev: The mysterious foreigner
twintom:And his henchman Tomtom
pharc: A wealthy philanthropist
cjbakker: A baby porn magnate,
There. Now cough up the goods!
101: Well, okay, thanks. But the rest of you are still in hot water.
Hey apo, as a North Carolina guy, do you know anything about Bob Timberlake furniture and whether it's generally considered well made or shite? I'm thinking about buying something I found on craigslist.
I just made Kriston a contact on the flickr, and if he's paying attention he can add me to the group when he acknowledges that. I'm Don Feduardo over there so if I show up in the group, there's your answer.
Also, I am *not* holding out on any mini-heebie photos. I would never. Look, right here, where heebie says: "There are many more photos, but I need to fish them off other people's cameras."
Er, if that needs to be anonymized, anonymize it, overlords. I use the same pseud everywhere so I'm not very good at keeping track.
Also contributing: a coupla black-eyed Susans. We had pineapple juice to use up and the Cocktails+ app on my iPhone had the recipe as a viable candidate.
do you know anything about Bob Timberlake furniture
Nope.
95: What I want to know is, who is janegalt?
A belated congratulations to nworB!
re: 88
Yes, this. Slowing down, definitely. Also, keeping the pitch of your voice in the lower end of your natural range, and, more deviously, asking questions without raising the intonation at the end. Ask a question --- "so, you'd like to attend an appointment with one of our mortgage advisors?" --- but use the intonation pattern you'd use for a command. Basically, employ a crypto-imperative intonation mode.
It's supposed to make it easier to manipulate people into doing what you want. They didn't show us any research backing this up, but we did spend hours with tape recorders working on our voice technique, so I presume someone, somewhere, had persuaded them it was useful.
I'm apostropher perca fluviatilis on flickr.
ynam sknaht rof lla eht dnik snoitalutargnoc If only I could bottle the civility and wit of people here and force the graundia's commentators to drink it -- no: force would be wrong. Choice is good -- they could drink it or quaff sulphuric acid.
I love ttaM's technique of asking a question in a tone appropriate for a command. Must try that some time, mustn't I?
What did nworb do?
He's pregnant.
http://www.theorwellprize.co.uk/the-award/winners-books.aspx
122:Amazon needs some reviews. I certainly don't take Amazon reviews as gospel, but it does bother me when a book has none.
I don't feel I know the author well enough to offer congratulations.
Even though I know better, I usually read Nworb Werdna as Norbert Wiener.
Even though I know better, I usually read Nworb Werdna as Norbert Wiener.
Let your inner cybernetician run free Walt; I'm sure Werdna doesn't begrudge his readers their fantasies. Personally, I read Unfogged as Warren McCulloch.
Congratulations Nworb! Wow, we're just full of famous people here.
Re: voices, I'm told I have a voice for radio. It's sometimes hard to say, though, because one's register(?) changes depending on the audience. My parents tell me I talk too quickly, but no one else has complained about it.
re: 127
Cool. He's riding a lot in the area directly around the university campus. Bristo Square and that area has been used by skaters and BMX guys since at least the late 80s.
Belated even among the belateds: congratulations!
It's like parcours on a bike. Wow.
Belated even among the belateds: congratulations!
I'm more belated than you are, so nyah. Congrats, nworB!
Hey, congratulations, Nworb Werdna! How great!
He's riding a lot in the area directly around the university campus. Bristo Square and that area has been used by skaters and BMX guys since at least the late 80s.
Heh. I used to hang out there sometimes during my year in Edinburgh, watching the skaters and thinking, "Not bad. For a European".
Actually ,while there were of course plenty of beginners messing up badly, there were also some awesome skaters. It made me want to buy a skateboard and show off some skillz (It's just like riding a bike right? It'll come right back!), but that probably would have ended badly.
Anyway, I'm horribly nostalgic for Edingburgh now.
I don't remember seeing many many bikers, and especially not anyone like MacAskill. Holy mother of shit he's impressive. I can only imagine the number of horrible spills it took to reach that incredible level of control and excellence. The man's a bike genius.
136: Um, heebie? Nworb's not really pregnant.
Here's some video of my awesome bike skills. I threw in some parkour moves too, just to spice things up.
I'm actually quite a renaissance man when it comes to these sorts of skills.
You live near Halifax? Have you ever been to the church where Ari is a rabbi?
137: MacAskill's good, no question, but a lot of his stuff isn't particularly noteworthy for a trials rider. This guy does a lot of the same stuff, in an environment where it'd hurt even more to fall. (And here's some more stuff in an urban environment.)
And then there's the guys who do it on motorcycles...
143: Oh Josh, so jaded.
The setting of that Javi Alonso video makes me think that whitewater biking would be an awesome sport.
Re: both Javi and the dude in the second video, somehow it looks more impressive on a larger bike like MacAskill rides.
And I personally find the human-powered stuff more impressive than the motorcycle stunts.
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Heh.
|>Here are the big issues for normal people: the war, the economy, the environment, mending fences with our enemies and allies, and the rule of law.
And here's the list of Republican obsessions since President Obama took office: that his birth certificate is supposedly fake, he uses a teleprompter too much, he bowed to a Saudi guy, Europeans like him, he gives inappropriate gifts, his wife shamelessly flaunts her upper arms, and he shook hands with Hugo Chavez and slipped him the nuclear launch codes.
Do these sound like the concerns of a healthy, vibrant political party?
It's sad what's happened to the Republicans. They used to be the party of the big tent; now they're the party of the sideshow attraction, a socially awkward group of mostly white people who speak a language only they understand. Like Trekkies, but paranoid. [...]
Look, I get it, "real America." After an eight-year run of controlling the White House, Congress and the Supreme Court, this latest election has you feeling like a rejected husband. You've come home to find your things out on the front lawn -- or at least more things than you usually keep out on the front lawn. You're not ready to let go, but the country you love is moving on. And now you want to call it a whore and key its car.
That's what you are, the bitter divorced guy whose country has left him -- obsessing over it, haranguing it, blubbering one minute about how much you love it and vowing the next that if you cannot have it, nobody will.
But it's been almost 100 days, and your country is not coming back to you. She's found somebody new. And it's a black guy.
The healthy thing to do is to just get past it and learn to cherish the memories. You'll always have New Orleans and Abu Ghraib.
145: Indeed. And the photo at the top of the post is awesome.
I also like this part:
I know. It's not about what Obama's done. It's what he's planning. But you can't be sick and tired of something someone might do.
Republican Rep. Michele Bachmann of Minnesota recently said she fears that Obama will build "reeducation" camps to indoctrinate young people. But Obama hasn't made any moves toward taking anyone's guns, and with money as tight as it is, the last thing the president wants to do is run a camp where he has to shelter and feed a bunch of fat, angry white people.
. . . .
The thing that you people out of power have to remember is that the people in power are not secretly plotting against you. They don't need to. They already beat you in public.
143: Okay, but the video in 127 is much lovelier to watch.
"Hat-tip Bill Maher"? That is the exact text of an entire LA Times op-ed by Bill Maher. I think it should be attributed a little better than that.
139 & etc.: Why, why would they not wear elbow and knee pads? Surely it isn't manly to have scabby elbows.
Aren't all non-fatal scars manly?
in an environment where it'd hurt even more to fall
Not actually a mark of talent or grace, just of risk tolerance. Also, what rtfs said. Not that all of these people aren't completely impressive.
150: Or so Big Mecurichrome would have you believe.
147: No question, but that's all down to the choice of music.
Also editing, choreography (or whatever you would like to call it), and quality of camerawork.
150: Does having one eye ripped out count as a scar?
154: I mostly responded to the music because it's such a nice change from the vast majority of those videos. But yes, it's overall quite well-done. (And the bit at the beginning where he's riding across the top of the fence is a really impressive bit of skill.)
Aren't all non-fatal scars manly?
Not ones from C-sections.
And is a vasectomy scar manly or not?
Does having one eye ripped out count as a scar?
