I used to eat a lot of Morningstar Farm products and in general, a lot of packaged vegetarian food. It always has the flavor, texture, and convenience of mainstream packaged food.
But its expensive as hell and has little nutritional value. Basically, they are taking a vegie based starch medium and impregnating it with standard fast food flavors. You really can do the same for yourself using potatoes or dough and spices you mix to your liking.
Here is my new mode of cooking, which I feel replicates the packaged vegie pattie experience nicely.
One day I will be reading the kids to sleep while drinking a cheap American beer. I fall asleep basically as the kids fall asleep, and wake up with half a flat beer. I save that beer and mix it with flour, salt and spices to create a beer batter. I chop up some veggies to go in the batter, and then I fry little balls of the stuff while drinking the next night's beer.
My six year old's BFF recently announced to her "Your daddy's weird."
1: I hear you. Normally, the only Morningstar product I keep around is their black bean burgers, which are great and easy for surprise cookouts (which happen -- "Hey, come over; we're grilling!"), and I'll buy those only when they're on sale.
Riblets were on sale. I am a creature of whim. Stop judging me, rob.
I'm not judging! No judging! I am the least judgmental analytic philosopher you will find!
Yeah, I was yanking your chain. Go fry some old beer.
Uh. This is not a food thread, and is surely not a thread about vegetarian eating -- but STANLEY, Stanley, WHY?
Those things just look gross.
I do eat meat on occasion, but ribs have never appealed to me, and barbecue sauce less so, and something that attempts to approximate them? That's weird.
I feel that these must be pretty obvious sentiments.
Maybe Stanley doesn't feel as you do about bbq sauce. Shocking, I know.
6: I don't eat meat because I don't like the taste of meat. But barbecue sauce can be great. When I worked at a barbecue place (as a vegetarian), I discovered you can dip fries in it. Whoa! Better than ketchup. Admittedly not supremely healthy, but, hey, it's a treat.
In sum, I gather you don't like barbecue sauce, parsimon.
[and on preview I'm nosflow-pwned goddammit.]
Given that approximately 80% of people love ribs, and 90% of people love BBQ sauce, I'd say "obvious" is not the word I expected to see in 6.
I buy the Morningstar soysages because Cassidy will eat as many of them as I hand to her and at 5:30 in the morning while the coffee's still brewing, 45 seconds in the microwave is sometimes the most complicated maneuver I can accomplish.
I really, really, like the Morningstar farm breakfast sausage with eggs and Mama Lil's peppers.
It's a truly delicious combination but, unfortunately, it just isn't as good without the peppers, and I never have them in my fridge.
They are, however, ridiculously expensive.
No, I don't like barbecue sauce. It has a lot of sugar and chemicals in it. Maybe there's good barbecue sauce that's more vinegar-based or something, and maybe there's homemade barbecue sauce that's not all chemically. So I understand that I may be sheltered, barbecue-sauce-wise.
I will put in a plug for Morningstar. In an ideal world, it is probably not the kind of food that people would be eating. But its similarity to other kinds of processed food and wide availability makes it very useful for people who would like to eat less meat (with or without intending ultimately to become vegetarian) without suddenly introducing a radical change in their lifestyle.
Also, the "riblets" are pretty tasty.
8: I would dip fries in A-1 Sauce without a qualm, indeed with a wicked grin.
I may be sheltered, barbecue-sauce-wise.
No mortal sin, that. The place I worked at made their own barbecue sauce. Brown sugar, yes. But the only weird thing in it was liquid smoke, which would be a good name for a metal band in the 70s.
I think the word "barbeque" should be euthanized. BBQ sauce has nothing to do with meat or with BBQ. It is just a nice sauce.
Also, I gather that it is foolish to categorize Texas BBQ and Carolina BBC together.
Basically it looks like a bad descriptor all around.
maybe there's homemade barbecue sauce
Jesus H. Christ, parsimon.
Carolina BBC? BBC is in the Elizabethan era right now.
18: Go easy, Apo. I was well past college before I realized that you could make mac-n-cheese using pasta and cheese and milk that you purchased separately, without any oblong box and a container of orange powder.
19: The typo is evidence that I shouldn't do any more editing tonight for the online course I am teaching.
18: I take it you mean there's really good homemade barbecue sauce. I figured there was; of course there is. I'm sorry! I'm a mostly, almost-entirely vegetarian and have been for 20 years! When I make a marinade for grilled vegetables, it's not like barbecue sauce. Sauces for meats are not like sauces or marinades for vegetables, or for fish.
Why do barbecue sauces seem to be gooey? What's up with that?
21: "From the BBQ news in London, this is Beef Brisket. I am delicious to many people. The time now is ought thirty, GMT."
Verdict: not terrible! ... And, as a vegetarian...
If a celibate monk gave me an approving review of a fleshlight, I think I would ascribe to it roughly the same reliability.
I'm still trying to think smaller.
BBQ sauce on roasted root vegetables is pretty damn tasty.
The Boca breakfast links are really good. (I think it's because most of the taste of sausage is in the seasonings.)
25: So you're not going to explain about the gooeyness, then.
(Disclosure: I have enjoyed buffalo wings. Covered in buffalo wing sauce. It's not like I don't get the idea.)
There are many kinds of barbecue sauce, some of which are gooey and some of which are not. For example, eastern NC barbecue sauce isn't remotely gooey.
3 - One of their black bean burgers with an egg over easy is a fantastic lunch.
But the only weird thing in it was liquid smoke
Which, to be clear, is not an artificial product. It is smoke that is condensed (as in, run through a condensing coil) and bottled. I gather that some brands may add additional flavoring, and of course there's the question of what is being burned to create the smoke, but it's been around since before the artificial ingredient revolution.
(I think it's because most of the taste of sausage is in the seasonings.)
This is not, in fact, true. Or perhaps, not inherently true. Sausage can be as simple as salt, pepper, and pork.
31: Okay, babe. That non-gooey sauce is grand.
Also, for the record, KC is the epitome of gooey sauce. Most other regions are less gooey and sweet, some, as noted by apo, neither gooey nor sweet at all. Not clear to me why gooey and sweet became the default, except that it's the same reason that honey mustard and glazed salmon are the new mass market culinary cliches.
30: That's a truly hilarious episode. So much better than that rotten movie.
39: Sadly, the only links I can find to it are through weirdo Russian sites, and I'm afraid to click play.
I'm with apo in 10, except at the other end of the day with the Morningstar chicken nuggets. Daughter no. 1 is a picky eater for dinner, and it's either chicken nugget or tortilla and cheese for the entree. Based on the insane numbers I see on the sides of the Tyson box of nuggets, Morningstar looks practically like grapefruit by comparison.
Still damned expensive, though. (We push the tortilla/cheese.)
Also, "soysages" manages the difficult task of being both clever and repellent.
I like pretty much all the Morningstar Farms stuff I've tried and am especially a fan of their corndogs. I think it's silly to hold it up next to meat and try to make a comparison, though. I mean, yes, the comparison is inherent in that they are selling approximations of meat, but really the experience is so different that I don't try to compare them. That isn't to say I think Morningstar Farms corndogs are somehow inferior to "real" corndogs and I'm grading them on a curve, either; quite the contrary. I'll take a Morningstar Farms corndog over a "real" corndog pretty much any day. There are at least two local restaurants where I prefer the veggie burger to the meat burger because it's simply good on its own merit, but I am by no measure anything even resembling a vegetarian. I notice myself eating less meat over time but I deeply love what meat I do consume.
Barbecue sauce, though, is just delicious on pretty much anything short of cake.
Not clear to me why gooey and sweet became the default
Because cornstarch and HFCS are two of the cheapest ingredients, pound for pound, in the artificial foods universe.
Also, children like it, and children have strong purchasing influence in both the fast food and the condiments segments.
Barbecue sauce, though, is just delicious on pretty much anything short of cake.
There is ketchup cake so I bet you could make a cake with BBQ sauce. Although added on top might be a bit much.
IT'S PEOPLE! SOYLENT BBQ IS MADE OUT OF PEOPLE!
pretty much anything short of cake
Barbecue sauce and onion shortcake.
I think it's silly to hold it up next to meat and try to make a comparison, though.
If you expect potato flakes to taste like mashed potatoes, you're going to be disappointed. But if you expect them to taste potato flakey, then they're pretty good.
Barbecue sauce, though, is just delicious on pretty much anything short of cake.
Capers. Capers also fit the bill.
Anyone up for amateur medical/ethical advice?
We moved into a lovely old home with lead paint in its past. Most surfaces have been painted over, etc., although there are some small amounts of chipping near window sills and stuff. My 1 yr-old daughter was recently screened for lead and we've found she has a small, but detectable level of blood in her system. It is smaller than the amount considered "of concern", but damn near the entire internet (including the scientific literature) says that for kids, there's no safe level.
Question: when do we move out? Immediately? or when the lease is up? (10 months from now.)
Buddhists are insane; pass it on.
I had a damn good soysage meal tonight: Tofurky sweet Italian sausages in white corn tortillas with mustard. And I'm not even high, unfortunately.
50: There was a whole thread somewhere on this exact topic. Brock Landers was in the same situation. I'm terrible at finding things in the archives though, so I feign learned helplessness until someone else finds the link.
http://www.unfogged.com/archives/comments_6655.html#531203
Thanks. I knew someone here had to have covered this.
I'm sure I'm about to find the link...oh look, pwned by Apo. Too bad.
It was nothing. You should really thank Apo, not me.
Oh, shucks, okay, I guess I do do a lot around here.
Well, I thought I remembered the episode. But upon rewatching it, it doesn't contain that line. I was remembering the Pinchy episode (called "Lisa gets an F").
No, it was just a big sandwich and an ugly sweater.
63: It's "I'm Spelling as Fast as I Can", which I've cross-posted to Standpipe's blog.
I'll confess. I really like Morningstar Farms's vegetarian corn dogs.
Also: I totally pwned heebie and apo but without a link. You gotta have a link now? You guys got beef with me? I do not have truck with beef.
66: Is it the sweet? They practically taste like candy.
Also, "soysages" manages the difficult task of being both clever and repellent.
Also in this category: "soyrizo".
I'm now curious about south caroline bbq sauce.
I just remembered that I have two bits of food commentary that I've been wanting to share.
The first is that I ordered spices from Penzey's and I have to say, I like World Spice better. I may be biased, because I've met the person who started world spice and I liked him. I though that the basic quality of their spices was probably similar, but the World Spice orders seemed much fresher. When I tastes the spices from Penzey's I thought, "this is basically what I would expect from spices that had sat in my cupboard for 3-4 months." (considering that World Spice recommends not keeping any spices longer then 9-12 months, that's a big difference). I also like that World Spice makes it easier to order in smaller quantities.
That said, I thought the Penzey's blends were better in many ways. The World Spice blends are nice, but they feel like they've been created by a very specific palate, for a specific dish or style. The Penzey's blends seemed more generic and, therefore, a little more widely useful.
Also, inspired by AWB's passionate post a while back, I am taking up eating beans. At the risk of over-sharing, I have avoided them mostly because of the flatulence issue. But I have decided to make a sincere attempt to start eating them and see if my body will adjust.
I didn't get Rancho Gordo beans, but I picked up what heirloom beans I could find at the co-op (anasazi beans, in this case) and they are very tasty.
So, assuming that my body adjusts before I gas everyone around my, my thanks for all the encouragement.
I was well past college before I realized that you could make mac-n-cheese using pasta and cheese and milk that you purchased separately, without any oblong box and a container of orange powder.
I think you're conflating two completely separate dishes there: "mac-n-cheese" comes from gaelic, and is not even cognate with "macaroni and cheese".
Also: I totally pwned heebie and apo but without a link.
Oh really? Then why was I the one recieving copious gratitude?
Thank you, too, Stanley. 50 confused but also gave me hope.
50: We moved into a lovely old home with lead paint in its past.
Bring in an exorcist immediately.
DONE! Didn't even have to read the rest of the post! Is my shit together or is my shit together?
75: Yeah. That's more like it. [struts around]
50: and we've found she has a small, but detectable level of blood in her system
Everyone else is too busy being extremely literate empathetic to pluck this.
At the risk of over-sharing, I have avoided them mostly because of the flatulence issue. But I have decided to make a sincere attempt to start eating them and see if my body will adjust.
Your body may adjust, or it may not. Mine did. Shrug? There's Beano. And there's that stinky stuff you can add to beans, asafoetida -- be aware that that stuff is very stinky out of the jar. It works, though, for those who have problems with beans.
78: Oh, dear. Well, that's true too, I suppose.
but really the experience is so different that I don't try to compare them.
This is completely sensible.
The only really weird one I know of is hot dogs, as there exist vegetarian ones that taste identical to meat based one. The only discernable difference being the casing (which is quite different). 8-10 of us couldn't agree if there was a consistent texture difference on the interior either, so if there is, it's pretty miniscule.
I first thought they had done a ton of research to reproduce the taste or something (why???), but then I found out that the hotdog meat is sourced pretty variably so they just bleach it all somehow and add the flavor and color after anyway, so it made more sense...
Klug, when is the lease up? Don't stay there for years, but don't panic either. Bear in mind that until the middle of the last century everybody grew up in houses with lead paint and presumably had trace levels in their bodies. That would include every Nobel laureate and Olympic medallist before about 1960, so the risk can't be too high. Get out when you can with maximum grace and minimum inconvenience.
78: Curses. I was going to make that joke.
Vegetarian burgers: I make my own, with soup, rice, and breadcrumb, and since I use brown rice and homemade soup and (usually) quite good breadcrumb, I feel I'm eating something quite healthy. Ish. Depends whether I grill or fry them.
Eating out, well: when there's nothing else, that's what you order. And more and more places have vegieburgers, though it's kind of disturbing when they're made out of Quorn, because those taste sufficiently meaty that I worry I'm going to be ill.
That would include every Nobel laureate and Olympic medallist before about 1960, so the risk can't be too high.
And where are all these laureates and medallists now? I'll tell you where - they're dead! Or decrepit!
37 is NOT TRUE. KC Masterpiece is the only KC sauce most people have tried, but it is shit and everyone in KC knows it. We eat Gates (my favorite) or Zarda, which are the true local style, spicy, vinegary, and not gooey or sugary at all.
Quite often, I actively crave Gates Extra Spicy, but face the same problem as many vegetarians, that I don't have a huge lot of stuff to put it on.
those taste sufficiently meaty that I worry I'm going to be ill
So the fact that Quorn is meat-like is more disturbing than the fact that it's a soil mold grown in giant underground tanks?
86: Cheese is rotten milk. Eggs are squeezed out of a hen's bottom. I mostly try not to think about the awful genocide I commit every time I bake a loaf of sourdough bread. I cultivate a paste of flour and water to which I add very ripe fruit or cooked potato at irregular intervals, in which a thriving colony of yeast is living, in my fridge. I drink real ale.
Either you eat nothing but raw leaves, vegetables, and fruits, or you accept that with food processing comes a certain amount of stuff that's quite appalling when you think about it.
But the fact of the matter is: I have on occasion tasted food that contained cheap processed meat, and I've been fed quorn, and they resembled each other far too much for my peace of mind.
Besides, I try to avoid battery-produced eggs, and that's what they use to make quorn. Yuck. Give me a free-range organic egg from a happy hen every time.
Actually, battery eggs were phased out of all UK Quorn products in 2004. I'm not freaked by Quorn, and as meat substitutes go, it's a pretty good one. Not enough to fool anybody, but good enough in a pinch.
85.1: I wasn't going from KC Masterpiece; I had read elsewhere that KC-style BBQ is sweet and gooey (or, at least, sweeter and gooier than that of other places). Obviously, I'll take your local testimony, although I really feel that a road trip is called for....
85.2: The same source told me that in KC they bake beans under the grilling meat, resulting in drippings and sauce going into the beans. Is this true? Regardless, I made it and it was tasty. And you're Unfogged's own Bean Lady, so get to it.
89: I looked at the Wikipedia page and it verifies your claim that "KC Style" means the disgusting KC Masterpiece and Hunt's type of sauce, but it just doesn't fit with what I grew up eating there. It could be a white/black thing, though. There seems to be a divide between the styles of BBQ offered at African-American-run places like Gates (and white-run places like Zarda's that are more in that tradition) and several other places that have the more sweet style. As a family, we just didn't go to the latter. My folks are Southern and grew up with more traditionally Af-Am foods than most white KCians.
I have fond memories of giant plates of sliced beef, turkey, and pork spread out on slices of white bread with dill pickle spears and pools of mouth-watering extra spicy vinegary sauce. Being vegetarian sometimes sucks, but I have my memories to comfort me.
88.1: Really? Oh well, shows how long I've hated quorn. I used "battery eggs" as an excuse why I wouldn't eat it for years. I hadn't realised that had gone out of date.
88.2: I'm not freaked by quorn. I've just disliked it since 1986. (I think that was when I first ate it: I was staying with a non-vegetarian friend who was delighted to be able to buy "Vegetarian Meat Pie!" for our evening meal. He was slightly less delighted when he had to produce the box it came in and show me the green V from the Vegetarian Society to prove to me that he wasn't trying to feed me a real meat pie.
88.3 I think that's the point: quorn is for people who like meat. I don't.
shows how long I've hated quorn
Heh. I mocked it when I first heard of it because the concept was just so weird (really? mold patties? mmmm). But when vegetarian friends made dinner for me with it, well, it wasn't that bad. Which isn't to say I've gone and bought it or anything.
I think that's the point
Yeah, I get that.
Having grown up in a family where we ate onions like apples, I am wicked stoked to try that barbecue sauce and onion shortcake recipe. I am not even a little bit kidding.
neb, SC-style sauce, being high in mustard content, is extremely delicious.
I endorse 93.2. It's odd, but deliciously odd.
Quorn is people!
Bob Mould, maybe.
Though a carnivore, I like Quorn because it reminds me of the Isaac Asimov and Robert Heinlein novels I used to read as a child. "As you know, Bob, on our overcrowded planet/space colony we have no room to raise animals for food - in fact, we regard it as slightly unethical to do so. This 'steak' you are eating is in fact composed of highly treated and processed mycoprotein."
Brief excursus into predictive ability of Golden Age SF: Heinlein in 1947 failed to predict the electronic computer: he thought that one of the reasons to go into space was that computers would operate much better in free-fall, because there wouldn't be so much strain on all the gears and cams. He did, however, predict the mobile phone; however, he erred badly in predicting that future etiquette would make people step aside to use it, rather than simply gazing blankly into the face of the person opposite.
Quorn is people!
But it's no Kevin Bacon.
Quorn is the only form of Chicken McNuggets I'll let myself eat anymore.
Chicken McNuggets
I'm pretty sure McDonald's uses real(ish) meat in their McNuggets, Bave. However, Wikipedia tells me:
In 2004, McDonald's introduced a Quorn-branded burger bearing the seal of approval of the Vegetarian Society, an endorsement criticised by the Vegan Society. However, the product proved to be less popular than the company had envisaged and was soon removed from the menu.
it's the same reason that honey mustard and glazed salmon are the new mass market culinary cliches.
Honey mustard is an abomination upon the land, a Frankenstein's monster of two otherwise wholesome aliments. It is evil and it must be eliminated.
Fond as I am of SC-style mustard BBQ, I ate the best BBQ ever in Missouri, which must've been KC-style, I imagine.
I like the Morningstar products, but I rarely buy any. There are too many other good things to eat on a vegetarian or largely vegetarian diet.
Bob Mould, maybe.
More like Moldy Peaches.
93: neb, SC-style sauce, being high in mustard content, is extremely delicious.
I'd think neb is tough enough though that you'd want the smoke him with the tomato-based sauces.
90: 89: I looked at the Wikipedia page and it verifies your claim that "KC Style" means the disgusting KC Masterpiece and Hunt's type of sauce, but it just doesn't fit with what I grew up eating there. It could be a white/black thing, though. There seems to be a divide between the styles of BBQ offered at African-American-run places like Gates (and white-run places like Zarda's that are more in that tradition) and several other places that have the more sweet style.
[To this and comments above] 'KC-style' (which is similar to Texas-style) is basically a glaze. Or to go for the the comparison, the Carolinas have lots of pigs and not so many cows, so they're smoking pork quickly and putting a sauce over it. On the plains (along the route traveled by Texas Longhorn, source of tough meat), beef is predominant, and that's much tougher than pork. So you have to smoke it for far longer, which means it needs a glaze to keep from drying out and turning hard on the outside. So, sorta like glazed carrots, mix some tomatoes and brown sugar and reduce and the result will be thick enough to adhere to beef and keep it moist for hours or days on end.
Sauces used as a condiment might be completely different, but the KC-style glaze stuff seems to have mutated into a weird form of ketchup for some people.
My favorite sauce was from Black Man's barbeque - a very smooth, moderately thick dark red stuff that was more spicy (with a little bit of vinagar and a little bit of smoke) than anything. That said, both the NC and SC sauces sound tasty.
max
['Fun with BBQ.']
I'm pretty sure McDonald's uses real(ish) meat in their McNuggets, Bave.
yes, it's one of 80ish ingredients, iirc.
it's the same reason that honey mustard and glazed salmon are the new mass market culinary cliches.
No, these are both over-featured because they're both fat-free and thus can be incorporated into the Healthy Option at whatever restaurant. (I know salmon's not fat free, but it's got that healthy omega aura.)
Salmon fat may be healthy, but it is still fattening. Look at bears (of course, I think they only eat the fat if they have enough salmon).
Grass is fattening. Look at cows!
There's nothing unhealthy about being fat.
Also, I think literally the only meat I have ever tasted and thought "That's delicious, what is it?" was smoked salmon.
112.2. When I was a kid I had a bunch of friends from localish Indian bands. One of them had a grandmother who made the most amazing smoked salmon and he would usually bring me back a few pounds when he visited. Heaven.
Speaking of mock meat, here is one of the places I plan to have dinner in Montreal this August. Yum.
(I started looking up vegetarian restaurants on Happy Cow as soon as I booked my lodgings. Also, location of nearest Eggspectations, because really, what is a trip to Montreal without at least one brunch there?)
There's nothing unhealthy about being fat.
It's tough on the knees over the long haul.
smoked salmon
Smoked salmon is good. My brother came over last night and made us the best tuna steaks I think I have ever tasted. Barely seared on the outside and like sushi on the inside. So, so decadently awesome.
Jesurgislac: where in Montreal are you staying? I used to know a bunch of good veggie places there, on the plateau. Knowledge is out of date, but I bet some are still there.
Grass is fattening. Look at cows!
I know this comment is meant in jest, but it really isn't true. While it is true that cows (and other ruminants) can derive nourishment from cellulose, they also consume a tremendous amount of energy in grazing and digesting their food, so their net energy intake is barely enough to create any fat. As a consequence, a cow eating a pure grass diet, even in very rich pastures, simply cannot eat enough to become obese.* One evolutionary consequence of this is that cows have no satiation response; if they break into the feedbin, they will literally eat until they drop.
U.S. cattle producers typically "finish" beef cattle with higher protein feeds (chiefly corn and soybeans) to create the fatty, well-marbled texture that US consumers are accustomed to. Grass-fed beef tastes notably different; one reason is that it is notably leaner. Similarly, lactating dairy cattle generally receive supplemental grain in their diet to stimulate milk production and milkfat content.
*Fodder is a slightly different story; you can fatten cattle up with a combination of forage and fodder, though not as quickly as if you add grains to their diet.
Barely seared on the outside and like sushi on the inside.
A good way to achieve this effect is to use a propane torch. Really!
It also helps to cut the steaks into slides as soon as they come off the heat, so that the residual heat in the flesh doesn't cook the middle.
U.S. cattle producers typically "finish" beef cattle with higher protein feeds ....
....such as chicken shit.
corn is I think primary by volume though and is a big problem for finishing, as cattle can't naturally digest it well if at all. So they get a bacteriological cocktail when they show up at the feedlot and a ton of antibiotics as well, since the process typically makes them ill as well.
fun stuff!
There's nothing unhealthy about being fat.
It definitely correlates with a number of health problems. The jury is still out on whether there is a direct causal relationship between them, or whether they are both common effects of poor diet and lack of exercise.
From a practical perspective, it doesn't matter, because either way people need to eat better and get some exercise.
?From a practical perspective, it doesn't matter, because either way people need to eat better and get some exercise.
Dammit Helpy-Chalk, don't be sensible about this, there's a billion dollar industry that relies on irrationality about it. Don't you know there's a recession on?
I have found that intense cardiovascular exercise such as running or ellipticizing, 1.5 times a week, does not help me become less fat. However, it does enhance sexual performance.
123: Not surprising. 1.5 a week really isn't enough to shift your metabolism much; and unless you are starting from 0 you won't put on much muscle mass from such a routine, and that's the primary thing that will move your resting metabolism.
1.5 a week really isn't enough to shift your metabolism much
Especially when you've been dead for 140 years.
on the other hand, a regime of intense cardiovascular exercise colloquially known as sex, for 15min to 1hour at least 3 times a week can help your running performance. So there is that.
Especially when you've been dead for 140 years.
James's is an inordinately difficult case, yes.
Also, don't overestimate shifting your metabolism through exercise. Muscle is metabolically active, but we're talking very small amounts of calories per pound of muscle.
117: I'm staying five minutes walk from Yuan - the restaurant I linked to. Also about five minutes from the Eggspectation in Complexe Desjardins.
121: No. Going on diets - ie, eating less than you need to stay alive, losing weight rapidly, then eating normally again and gaining even more weight than you lost - that correlates with a number of health problems. As does eating bad food. As does not getting enough exercise.
Being fat correlates with an increased life-expectancy: you are much more likely to survive a serious operation or a debilitating illness if you have a nice, comfortable, healthy layer of fat. If you get swine flu? Better hope you're obese: stats say it gives you a noticeably better survival rate.
There's nothing unhealthy about being fat. There is considerable evidence to show that there's a lot unhealthy about being skinny.
128: Well sure, it's a small effect, but it's pretty much the one practical and not drug-induced way you will your metabolism. But in terms of changing your body's capabilities and/or shape, it's the fundamental shift in what you do with it that changes things radically, not an hour here and there in the gym.
129.last: I don't know for sure about that. I can say that apostropher is right as rain that being heavy is hard on the knees. Just to be clear, I'm not saying that because I'm heavy and have knee problems. I'm only slightly over-weight and my knees are fine. I have seen the relationship apostropher mentions in a couple of datasets.
I think the 129/121 exchange is probably suffering from vague terminology. There is some good medical literature related to this stuff after all, but it's pretty narrow in scope and often popularly mis-applied.
132: Agreed. It doesn't help that what pop culture pushes is a strong correlation of "thin=healthy", with an image of "thin" that's actually seriously underweight.
There is considerable evidence to show that there's a lot unhealthy about being skinny.
As far as this goes, there is considerable evidence to show that there are health problems associated (i.e. correlated) with both extremes of the spectrum of human body fat distributions. But it is clear that what these extremes actually are, and how they are represented and thought about popularly, are two very different things.
I think that Jesurgislac's basic point is fine, it may just be worded overly strongly.
Also, the important thing on this thread is actually serious recommendations for good Montreal restaurants.
134.Last: I don't know all of that literature well, but that would be my impression. What I have seen linking being obese (as opposed to overweight) to better outcomes if for the really old.
133 and 134 are going the same place roughly, I think.
Re Montreal. Further up St Denis, ChuChai was excellent when I was there yonks ago. There was a good ethiopian place near by too. Probably (like every other town) called the "blue nile" or something.
Yes, everyone gain 80 pounds of fat. Your back and knees will thank you. And what could be better than a giant new endocrine organ?
Bah, I have stuff to do. This stuff has been hashed to death. But really, that weight isn't just a passive energy reservoir.
135: Moishe's? Queue de Cheval? Be sure to order the lentil burger! FYI, it's "le faux filet, saignant", in French.
Also you could get a good veggie meal at the student run (CIA sort of place) restaurant near there. BYOB like much of the city, and it had a cheaper/basic service and more expensive/fancier service section, same food. I'm trying to remember the name.
There is some good medical literature related to this stuff after all, but it's pretty narrow in scope and often popularly mis-applied.
The basic ideas are: high levels of body fat (BMI sucks, but BMI in the mid 30s or above) are correlated with certain diseases; high levels of visceral fat (which doesn't have much to do with how you look) are worse; eating poorly and not exercising seem to be the real keys; and, all of the population-level data is mostly useless on an individual level.
The trouble is that all of this goes on in a culture where the ideal body type (especially for women) is significantly underweight. To put it another way, the acceptable weight range for a woman my size is nearly 40 pounds according to BMI, but only the lower third of that range would be media-acceptable.
Being fat correlates with an increased life-expectancy: you are much more likely to survive a serious operation or a debilitating illness if you have a nice, comfortable, healthy layer of fat.
Note that "being overweight helps you survive other illnesses" is not the same as "being overweight means you're healthier overall." It just means that the relationship between weight and health is more complicated than popularly acknowledged.
I'm going to get lunch at the 'O'. For some reason, this thread has given me a craving for hot dogs.
I also like MSFarm's corn dogs and cannot tell the difference between those and "real" corndogs. I had some of the chicken nuggets last night, and it was just like being back in an elementary school cafeteria. All that was missing was the spitballs. I prefer Mcnuggets, on the whole, but these were not bad.
My new beau is a vegetarian, so I've been trying a lot of these lately, and, sadly, gaining weight*. I doubt it's the soystitutes, though--more likely the inordinate amount of cookies, cereal, etc that now sit on my shelves. I have a real weakness for carbs.
*This despite the more regular, ahem, horizontal exercise. Which, as previously discussed, can also be hard on the knees. More fun than an elliptical, though.
can also be hard on the knees
You said hard-on.
140: Lentil burger / le faux filet, saignant . Cool! Thanks.
141: Le Commensal, I think. (Happy Cow lists it: sounds good.)
What about good breakfast places that aren't Eggspectation?
138: I think I went to ChuChai, when I was last in Montreal. Thai restaurant with pages of "Vegetarian Meat" dishes t hat actually tasted wonderful - that was where I fell in love with Thai green curry, I think. (A comment from one of my fellow diners, faced with pages of vegetarian pork curries: "Ah! Kosher traif!")
106: On the plains (along the route traveled by Texas Longhorn, source of tough meat), beef is predominant, and that's much tougher than pork. So you have to smoke it for far longer, which means it needs a glaze to keep from drying out and turning hard on the outside.
As another transplanted native KCian, I'd like to note that this isn't quite right. BBQ sauce in KC is generally the tomato-based, sweeter sort, but is definitely not a glaze intended to endure hours of smoking. The sugar content makes it exclusively for finishing or even only applied at the table. Not as much of a tradition of moppin'-sauce during cooking as in the Carolinas. We've also got a fair amount of pork (esp. ribs) going on. This is making me both hungry and homesick.
You said hard-on.
If I say it three times while looking in a mirror, will you appear and try to bone me? And if so, why didn't I have that info before I started dating again?
146: To be sure, 140 was a cruel, vegetarian-baiting joke (the two restaurants are famous steakhouses, and "faux filet, saignant" is "sirloin steak, rare").
I more than half suspect that you got the joke and are joshing right back at me, but I just wanted to remove any doubt.
If I say it three times while looking in a mirror, will you appear and try to bone me?
Possibly, but text messaging is far more reliable.
text messaging is far more reliable
I don't have a cell phone. May as well just post a request in the comments here.
will you appear and try to bone me?
There is no try.
150: *bursts into Internet tears*
You mean you were ribbing me? With BBQ sauce?
154: Ribbing, boning -- this thread's got it all!
You mean you were ribbing me?
Ribbing, boning, all just parts of the process.
The basic ideas are: high levels of body fat (BMI sucks, but BMI in the mid 30s or above) are correlated with certain diseases; high levels of visceral fat (which doesn't have much to do with how you look) are worse; eating poorly and not exercising seem to be the real keys;
See, this is what I was getting at in the first place. You can talk about the details of what correlates with what and what causes what all day, but in the end, we all just need to eat more veggies and get up and move around every so often.
get up and move around every so often
Rob hates us for our freedoms.
Rob hates us for our freedoms. fries.
NickS--I've never tried World Spice, but I like Penzey's and find that it's cheaper than lesser quality stuff at the supermarket. Plus, there's an actual retail branch in my town.
re 162: My favorite is the spice house which is related to Penzey's in a complicated way I can't remember quite (e.g., it may be more the original Penzey's than the current one under that label is. Same family tied to both of them, anyway).
-I've never tried World Spice, but I like Penzey's and find that it's cheaper than lesser quality stuff at the supermarket. Plus, there's an actual retail branch in my town.
If there's a retail store close to you then I'm not sure that the difference would be enough to justify paying shipping -- it depends on how much you like spices.
If you are tempted to order from World Spice, however, e-mail me and I can suggest some favorites. If nothing else the cumin and chipotle are both consistently superb. There is more I could recommend if anyone is interested.
For anyone who likes tea, however, I would strongly recommend trying the world spice teas. I am not much of a tea drinker, but I have been told that it's worth asking World Spice when they get new crops of tea in (I think, for some reason, that it's late spring, so it might be almost a year away, but I couldn't tell for sure) and ordering really, really fresh tea.
Aw heck, a few more Wold Spice recommendations:
Most of their chili peppers are good.
The world spice Cardamom is great, and ideally you should plan on doing something with it within a couple of days of getting it. The pods will keep for a couple months, but the flavor is distinctly stronger and more complex in the first week.
Their chopped ginger is nice, and very convenient to have around.
Their nutmeg, orange peel, and, not surprisingly, chai tea and mulling spice blends are quite good.
The smoked cherry peppers are good, but I don't use them much because I don't have a spice mill, and you definitely need one for (whole) dried peppers.
As for blends, the one's that I get most consistently are: Fajita Seasonings (ask them to add extra chipotle), Italian Sausage seasonings, Sri Lankan Curry, and Chinese Five Spice
I order from them once every two years or so, and that really wouldn't be my recommended behavior. Whenever I do I always think that my old spices are way too old and that I really should order smaller quantities once every 9-12 months. But I am occasionally neglectful.
I feel guilty about spices all the time. Really, I think what I should do is throw out everything in the kitchen, order a small amount of everything I think I'm likely to use over the next year, and do the same thing every year. As it is, I replace stuff when I run out and my kitchen is full of gummy jars of tasteless, ancient dried herbs.
gummy jars of tasteless, ancient dried herbs
You could probably still grind the stuff for the keef.
I feel guilty about spices all the time. Really, I think what I should do is throw out everything in the kitchen, order a small amount of everything I think I'm likely to use over the next year, and do the same thing every year.
Yes, yes, yes.
The last time I placed an order the total was around $65 (which included getting some new jars along with the spices) and when it came I had no doubt that it was money well spent.
I always forget how different fresh spices are until I have them around.
I've been experimenting with vegetarian foods lately, and just did four days straight w/o any meat. I ended the experiment last night due to feeling stressed and depressed, which could have been either the change in diet or the shitstorm of stressful and depressing things going on around me. Today I feel less stressed and depressed, but in addition to eating some dead animal I also dealt with some of the other potential contributory factors. Gotta do a better job of isolating variables.
One of the things I haven't tried in my experimentation is fake meat. That seems to me like a really silly idea. If you don't eat meat, don't eat meat. It's like nudists wearing transparent clothing or atheists praying to the void.
Another thing I've discovered in my exploration of the meatless lifestyle is that the only form of tofu that doesn't suck is dried, which is really quite nice. The regular kind that I've encountered has a texture that activates my lizard brain spit-it-out reflex fairly strongly.
If you don't eat meat, don't eat meat.
Eating fake meat isn't eating meat.
171: It's *almost* eating meat. It's buttsecksin' for virginity.
If buttsecksin' is wrong, I don't want to be a virgin.
170: The regular kind that I've encountered has a texture that activates my lizard brain spit-it-out reflex fairly strongly.
Heh. This is my response in general to slimy foods. Not that tofu is slimy, but when you have that spit-it-out response, there's really no way around it.
With respect to 'raw' tofu, which I'm also not a fan of, you can freeze it; then thaw, wring out the moisture (almost literally like a sponge), marinate, and bake. This gives it a chewier, denser texture, but obviously is a bit of work. I think you can buy tofu pre-baked, actually. And someone -- soup? -- had a recommended receipt or two for tofu marinades for baking.
I think I've lost access to AWB's food wiki, where I believe soup had posted his recipes. There's a new login/password system there?
175 has serious Country Ballad potential.
Their chopped ginger is nice, and very convenient to have around.
Wait, people dont' just have fresh ginger around like garlic? How bizarre.
As for the spice thing, we try and roll them over every 6-8months or so. We cook basically every day, so it's possible to buy amounts that make this reasonable.
It makes a huge difference, and is often even cheaper than buying the stale stuff at a random grocery, 'cause usually you aren't buying jars etc.
I found spice house to be fresher than world spice, but ymmv and they were both good. Also they minorly screwed up an order once and went to great effort an expense to make good on it, which made me happy.
relevant point: california bay leaves kind of suck, get some turkish ones if you can.
176: yes, i think i posted some very simple yummy baked tofu recipes there. Meaning ones approved by many non vegetarians...
The regular kind that I've encountered has a texture that activates my lizard brain spit-it-out reflex fairly strongly.
There are several regular kinds with different textures, and ways of preparing that make it quite different.
Otoh, nobody has to eat the stuff if they don't like it.
Wait, people dont' just have fresh ginger around like garlic?
I do, but grating ginger can be a hassle if, for example, you just want to add a little ginger to a cup of herbal tea.
I found spice house to be fresher than world spice, but ymmv and they were both good.
Good to know. I've ordered from World Spice several times, but not so often that anyone should take my experience as definitive.
I don't have anything bad to say about World Spice, mind.
We don't tend to buy spice mixes, even ground spices, so I can't say much about the comparison, but all of these retailers have a bunch of them and that's probably something worth experimenting with if you like to buy pre mixed stuff to have ready.
also, ground spices really don't last well under the best of circumstances. 3 months if you're lucky before it's really noticeable.
also, ground spices really don't last well under the best of circumstances. 3 months if you're lucky before it's really noticeable.
Very true.
I really need to get a spice grinder. They aren't hard to find but, again, occasionally attentive, generally neglectful towards my spices.
I really need to get a spice grinder.
I mostly use one of those cheap ($10 ish) coffee grinders you can find everywhere. Works great.