It's because you have to use different muscles for those, right?

(I know nothing about fitness, but this seems to be the answer to all questions of the form "Why can I do X easily but Y only with great difficulty?")

I was reading one of the Olivia books to the kids last night and I realized that my mental image of LB is Olivia's sensible, helpful and often exasperated mother.

I would have guessed that Y is harder than X in this case because traveling at a steady pace on a bike is mostly coasting. You're moving your legs, but it can't take too much force to overcome wind resistance and the friction of your wheels on the pavement and the bikechain.

I said this before, but I was really gassed at first too. And then when I inflated the tires properly I felt like Superman.

This is the difference between jogging and sprinting, no? I've been doing sprint intervals lately, trying to get my speed back. It does poop you out.

LB, this will change pretty quickly, I expect.

Riding a bike on a flat, smooth surface with properly inflated tires is really quite incredibly efficient.

Going up hills though, you can't get around the basic physics of lifting your bodies weight against gravity. You're doing this typically much more quickly than you would walking, too...

It's because that hill is Evil, has a slight turn in it, and I believe that you have no momentum to get up it.

erm body's weight of course. Unless you've got a small passenger

Theoretically, if you have a small enough gear, you should be able to ride over a hill at an effort constant with your output on flat terrain, albeit at a slower speed. The huffing and puffing generally comes from the rider attempting to maintain the same speed, or as close to it as possible.

2: Pretty much accurate.

8: Or a trailer and a tendency to moonlight for the mob.

Theoretically, if you have a small enough gear, you should be able to ride over a hill at an effort constant with your output on flat terrain, albeit at a slower speed.

Maybe LB just needs to go faster on the flat parts.

Also, I agree with Annie that you'll find riding these hill significantly easier within a couple of weeks.

Also, set your seat at the right height, which is probably higher than you have it- your leg should be almost fully extended when the pedal is at the bottom. Unless you're standing on the pedals and not sitting when climbing the hills, in which case it won't make a difference.

Oops, I posted 13 before adding that, in my experience, other kinds of fitness are generally not transitive to riding a bike.

A few months after I started cycling, I invited an uber-fit friend of mine (military, body building, running, etc.) on a ride with me. I fully expected him to ride off without me, but instead I rolled along at a frustratingly liesurely pace while he huffed and puffed to keep up.

Gear down and slow down advice seconded. My 9.7 mile ride to work is down into a creek bed and then up again. Uphill is much harder in the early spring after not riding much through the winter.

My huge surprise about 2 years ago was how very much harder jogging is than cycling.

There are like a milliion excellent remixes of Shannon's 80s disco hit "Let the Music Play". Looking for a beat I heard from the Battery park acrobats.... Bloop, bloop, bl-bl-bl-bloopbloop maybe someone knows it? Is there a better free tool than hammerhead for making breakbeats?

Oh yeah, the advice in 14 will make a huge difference too.

3: Yes, also see riding into a significant headwind.

you can't get around the basic physics of lifting your bodies weight against gravity

As a Bronto-American who used to bike a lot, even slight slopes were a continuing source of frustration, especially when in the company of ectomorphs. (Not implying anything about LB, of course). It is also interesting how thoroughly the mountains in the Tour de France (and other races, of course) separate out the "incredibly fit but slightly more heavily muscled/boned" sprinters from the "incredibly fit and slightly less heavily muscled/boned" climbers.

This is the difference between jogging and sprinting, no?

Or, you know, the difference between jogging and jogging uphill. PANT, WHEEZE.

Additionally, I'd practice on some more gentle hills to help build the muscles required to get up the ridiculously steep one. Biking through the Marble Hill area or through parts of Central Park are good places to work on that--the West Side Highway bike lane is flat flat flat.

It is also interesting how thoroughly the mountains in the Tour de France (and other races, of course) separate out the "incredibly fit but slightly more heavily muscled/boned" sprinters from the "incredibly fit and slightly less heavily muscled/boned" climbers.

This reminds me, is there any logic to the theory that undergoing intensive radiation treatment for cancer made Lance Armstrong an even better cyclist because of the effect on lowering bone density?

Oops, I posted 13 before adding that, in my experience, other kinds of fitness are generally not transitive to riding a bike.

I disagree with this with respect to steep climbs. I was without a bike for 3 months during which time I was doing a lot of squats. I could lift about 30% more weight by the end of the three months, and when I started to ride again the steeper climbs were a lot easier.

20: See, I'm not even worried about the big steep hill -- what's surprising me is how quickly the tiny little interruptions in the otherwise unrelieved flatness of the West Side Trail slow me to a panting crawl. There are only a couple of them, and they're short, but they do make me feel pathetic.

5: I was doing sprint intervals yesterday and when I was done I had the very great pleasure of walking up an insanely steep hill, a hill up which even all the teenaged boys walk their bikes. I am fairly certain I resembled an eggplant once I got to the top. Blerg.

21: I thought I read somewhere that competitive cyclists all had (dangerously) low bone density -- as in osteoporosis in their 20s low. So his is even lower than that?

LB, I am so impressed that you are doing this. I consider myself enough of a biker that I'll wear bike-themed t-shirts, but I don't ride more than an hour anywhere. Also, ease and speed will come without you noticing it. I don't know when my cruising speed got high enough that I have to watch whether it it comfortable for other people when I go somewhere with friends, but it did. I didn't deliberately learn to balance while stopped, but now I hover for several seconds at red lights without putting a foot down. That stuff just comes.

24: "I resembled an eggplant"

Purple? Covered in cheese? I don't get the expression.

27 was me. Sorry.

18: As a Bronto-American who used to bike a lot, even slight slopes were a continuing source of frustration, especially when in the company of ectomorphs. (Not implying anything about LB, of course)

So, so not an ectomorph. I'm not a terribly big person absolutely, but I am certainly characterized by an un-cyclist-like solidity.

LB, what are you doing w/r/t clothes? Do you get all sweaty on the way and have to change when you arrive?

I have thought about trying to bike to work, but it always seems complicated.

Work clothes in my bag, I bike to my gym, shower, change, and carry the bike a block to my office. This is facilitated by the slovenliness of my office -- having rolled up my work clothes in a bag doesn't really change my previously established levels of kemptness.

I would absolutely need a full shower and a change of clothes if I biked to work.

Aha! See, I don't belong to a gym, and if I did, I would join the one near my house, not near my work.

On the other hand, it's only a distance of 8.5 miles and the route is completely flat (lake path).

I suppose in NYC, the "One Less Car" (I know) stickers and t-shirts have less resonance. What would the equivalent be? Another Empty Subway Seat?

27: Purple.

Oh yeah. Like I said, ladies may glow rather than sweating, but I glow pretty damn brightly. I suppose if I were really committed, and the gym wasn't convenient, I could clean up with a washcloth in the office bathroom, but that seems over-the-top.

35: I guess I used 'beet' for that type of reference. I turn red after exertion or two beers. If I turn purple, I'm going to the doctor.

33: In your situation, if you were going to try it, I'd bring the change of clothes and do the washcloth or babywipes thing in the office bathroom. Sweaty is one thing, but the same clothes you were sweating into is worse. (Admittedly, there's a definite population of guys in suits on bikes on the trail, but I figure they're probably not going far at all.)

"(Admittedly, there's a definite population of guys in suits on bikes on the trail, but I figure they're probably not going far at all.)"

I'd bet not. The HR file probably says something like "Smells funny".

34: I can't think of how to put it snappily, but the public benefit would be more "One fewer person on the subway having to stand" than "Another empty seat" -- underutilized subways are no good, but getting them down to full rather than overfull would be nice.

(And of course, people shouldn't be impressed with me until I keep this up for more than a week. I'm talking big to try and shame myself into making it a habit, but it's not there yet.)

33: If you're thinking about the lake path to work, you should talk to Molly, who used to ride it from our old neighborhood (approx. 5400 North) to work in Hyde Park.

"One fewer person on the subway having to stand"

Isn't there a word for these people? "Straphanger"? I always liked that word.

Holy crap, to HP? I'm not in Rogers Park anymore; I've moved down to Edgewater (5600 north) and am very close to the lake. So the ride would be almost all on the lake path (work on Michigan).

My old work was about 2 miles from my old apartment and I rode my bike a few times. That was at the "glow" level. And that's in like March.

As a Bronto-American who used to bike a lot, even slight slopes were a continuing source of frustration, especially when in the company of ectomorphs.

On the other hand: as an ectomorph (more or less) who hardly bikes at all, even slight slopes are a frustration on the rare occasions that I do. And big hills are impossible. I should try to build the appropriate muscles, to avoid things like the bike ride I went on near Aspen a year ago (I got left way behind).

On the other hand, it's only a distance of 8.5 miles and the route is completely flat (lake path).

Is the lake path flatter than other places one could bike in Chicago? I wasn't aware non-flat places exist in Chicago. Except at the Magic Hedge.

LB, what are you doing w/r/t clothes?

This is funnier if you read it as "LB, what are you doing w/o clothes?"

M. Leblanc, it is hard to think of a nicer ride than a bike path by a lake.

"Used to be a straphanger"?

And of course, there are significant numbers of Americans of size blowing past me at high speed on the trail -- I'm out of shape enough that the fine details of exactly how much weight I'm moving aren't really the issue. Plenty of fat people I see are much faster.

How does your butt feel? Do you have a comfy girly seat?

Sore on the butt-bones, but not cripplingly so, and I have the seat that came standard, which seems pretty wide and padded as seats go. I just bought myself a pair of padded shorts at Modells this morning -- men's, because they didn't have women's. I'm hoping the location of the padding is similar.

49 should be addressed to Buck, I think.

Or better answered, anyhow.

Come to think of it, I suppose an alternative set of answers to 49 would be "Firm, round, and perky," and "Sure do!"

"Straphanger"?

This is a hard word to read, though. It misreads like it's an infection.

Alas, I don't think there are straps from which to hang any longer (maybe on the 1, still?). Another dead (wrt reality) MTA-related expression, along with my favorite, "That and a token will get you a ride on the subway."

55 -- Just another girl on the IRT.

40
the public benefit would be more "One fewer person on the subway having to stand" than "Another empty seat" -- underutilized subways are no good, but getting them down to full rather than overfull would be nice.

People having to stand is overfull? Really? Bizarre. This seems to be an unreasonably and unnecessarily high expectation of comfort on public transportation. This morning I had to walk past one or two nearest metro cars to find a car further down with enough room to squeeze into - that was overfull. If able-bodied people have to stand for a few stops, though, that doesn't seem too bad.

People having to stand is overfull?

One fewer person having to stand, not no people having to stand. The more standing people you have, the closer to overfull it's going to be.

Oh, there's nothing wrong with having to stand for a couple of stops, but in an ideal world, the subway would have enough capacity that peak usage wasn't uncomfortable. Right now, there are plenty of lines where at rush hour people aren't just standing, they're leaning on each other.

I wasn't aware non-flat places exist in Chicago.

There are some very slight inclines here and there. Plus, you have to go up and down when you go over bridges and stuff.

This seems to be an unreasonably and unnecessarily high expectation of comfort on public transportation.

Depending on the public transportation. Standing on the subway? No big deal. Standing on a NJ Transit train for an hour? Seriously uncomfortable.

There are straps on the Pgh buses, and short people can hang on them instead of holding on to the bars that are about 6.5 feet off the ground. I've been trying to use the word.

62: The straps on the buses don't seem to work very well, probably because on a bus you get shaken in three dimensions instead of one. Anyway, the bars are not 6.5 feet off the ground as I can reach them without having to straighten my arm.

I just bought myself a pair of padded shorts at Modells this morning

Now you just need to add the Chamois Cream for the true cyclist feel.

64: I enjoyed the customer review.

"Its a great lube and is not menthol like others that chill your stuff."

Cause who wants chilly stuff?

Who ever thought of putting menthol on their stuff?

Moby, do you really think that there are many substances that someone hasn't put on their junk at some point in history? Really?

It's not a new idea.

I suppose I should have just made a joke about having to encourage a girlfriend who prefers Kools.

||

The Sears Tower is now the Willis Tower? Ugh.

|>

Whatchoo talkin' about?

People do, indeed, put menthol on their stuff.

71: Is that actually going to fly with anybody? One thing I like about Pittsburgh is the near-universal refusal to care when something gets renamed. I've yet to hear anybody refer to the 'old Alcoa' building as the 'Regional Enterprise Tower' except on the news.

I liked it that they renamed Town Lake in Austin as LadyBird Lake, after she died.

The Park Tower will soon be renamed the Arnold Tower, I expect.

So, I just last night watched the new harry potter movie, having seen only the last but one previously—I gather there's money in the wizarding world? What for? How do people earn it?

77: If only there were, say, a blog, where people might have discussed the realism or lack thereof of the economy in Harry Potter books!

e.g.

Yeah, that would be swell.

77: It appears that most wizards and witches work for the Ministry of Magic. There is no indication of how the ministry raises taxes. The only other employment in the wizarding world appears to be small-scale retail shops and manufacturing trades.

Since the wealth is in coins and these are kept in vaults, I'm guessing financial services isn't a very lucrative career path. Since wizard and witches can change their appearance at will, I'm guessing the fitness centers are also uncommon.

Wikipedia, as always, is fascinating in its, um, committedness?:

... This means that £5.12 = 1 galleon. However, the book's cover price is £2.50 ($3.99 US), or "14 Sickles and 3 Knuts," which implies either an exchange rate of £3.01 = 1 galleon or a 41% discount to Muggle purchasers.

And the talk page is not to be missed.

Oops. Missing link.

Darwinist.

77: What for?

So there could be a tiresome ongoing subplot about the Weasley's relative poverty.

I was always expecting to see Polyjuice Potion sold as a marital aid.

81: I figured that the fully & exclusively magical community, even though they are what the books are all about, was a small minority of the people who use magic at all. There must be some wizards and witches who marry Muggles, some Squibs who don't get completely ostracized from their magical families, some Muggles who get bit by werewolves and unwillingly inducted into the magical world, etc. If so, then there would be a lot more connection between the magical and Muggle economies than we see. The Ministry of Magic might be paid for out of England's general fund taxes. A bookstore run by a wizard might look like a mundane bookstore in the front window, do most of its business in pounds or Euros, and quietly herd its magical clientele to the back room.

Ha! As if you could make a living running a bookstore.

"The Ministry of Magic might be paid for out of England's general fund taxes."

Probably be easier to smuggle cigarettes on broomstick.

|| Ugh. Giant wasps' nest right above our backdoor. They divebomb me when I go outside, but they've been aiming for my head and my hair is too thick for them to get me that way. Fuck you, wasps! CA's response to my news: Use the front door. |>

LB, let me try out an idea on you and see if makes sense.

I was recently encouraging someone else who didn't have much biking experience to start (some) bike commuting. I haven't been successful, so far, but one of the things I said was this:

If you compare walking and biking as modes of transportation walking feels like moving primarily in time, and biking feels like moving in space. When you're walking, you just keep putting one foot in front of the other, talking or thinking, and eventually you get someplace. When you're biking, you can be looking at the 3-500 feet ahead of you, and then you actually travel through that space. You can pick a line, or decide where you want to speed up or slow down and then execute that plan while it's still active in your mind.

I have that feeling more on hills or curves than flat parts. Biking on flat sections can also feel like a process of working a bit, and waiting and you will get there. But I'm curious if that description matches up at all with your experience?

90: A friend of mine dealt with this sort of situation by improvising a small flamethrower using hairspray and a barbecue lighter. Set some other stuff on fire, too, but got rid of the wasps.

92: This is the sort of fearless solution of which I'd like to avail myself, but never could. Like the advice I once read about fending off a dog attack -- if it's an unfixed male, grab its balls and twist! Sure! In this case, however, I'd have to be really fearless, since the nest is attached to the back wall of the house and I would probably end up burning it down.

I remember hairspray being effective against winged insects even without flame, because it gums up their wings. This depends on actually having hairspray, of course.

if it's an unfixed male, grab its balls and twist

Works on other species, too.

The terminology here (Balls gone = Fixed) has always bothered me.

One of the few times I'm actually willing to reach for poison is this kind of situation. Just go get some Raid Wasp killer--it shoots like 20 feet. Spray it at night, when the wasps are somnolent. Problem solved.

94: Yes, but it's a very short range weapon and will screw up contact lenses and such if it blows back. The long range wasp killer Chopper mentioned is good if your markspersonship is adequate and you're not shooting into a strong wind.

CA's response to my news: Use the front door.

"Gee, thanks, sweetheart!"

I was a little confused about what exactly an ectomorph was, so I googled. From the first link:

"The extreme ectomorph physique is a fragile and delicate one. The bones are light, joints are small and muscles are slight. The limbs are relatively long in proportion and the shoulders droop. The ectomorph is a linear physique. Straight up and straight down, and may appear longer than he or she really is, due to the length of limbs coupled with lack of muscle mass developed on those limbs. The ectomorph is not naturally powerful and will have to work hard for every ounce of muscle and every bit of strength he or she can gain."

It's a body-building site, so, yes. But I'm amused by the fact that they then list Brad Pitt as a classic ectomorph. I never realized he was so fragile and delicate.

94/97/98: Hmm! We have no hairspray. CA ups his helpfulness by suggesting I only go out the backdoor whilst smoking a cigar. Poison is sounding good.

I had a very simliarly placed nest once, which I solved with a high powered hose jet. It's a solution that may require dexterity ....

102: OK, you come over and do that while I hide at the library.

Hmm! We have no hairspray.

Lysol?

which I solved with a high powered hose jet

...laydeez.

Make a wasp trap out of a soda bottle?

Use diet cola and Mentos to make a jet to get the wasps?

Invite Heebie over. She's the Pied Piper of wasps.

if it's an unfixed male, grab its balls and twist

Wasp colonies are predominantly female, though.

Roll a newspaper into a long tight tube and light the end on fire. Blow in the other end to smoke them out. Who says print media is dead?

Certainly grabbing a wasp by the balls is an advanced technique, jms.

106: That was CA's third suggestion! I want someone to come take the nest down and then, uh, take the wasps home to live with them on their farm. It seems sort of weird that we didn't notice them until now -- as recently as a couple of days ago we were sitting on the back steps with no problem. Today that same place is wasp Grand Central. Fuckers.

106/112: Those glass bottles seem to work well (I don't have/use them, but a family member who lives in high-density wasp country does)

get a soda bottle, pull in some drano, insert aluminum foil.

Put cap on and throw at wasps

Wait:

Are these Anglican Wasps or Episcopal Wasps?

I was going to suggest that you get a whole bunch of tarantulas, but so much for that idea. Wait, maybe black widows! Yeah, that's the ticket. So: get a whole bunch of black widows. One per wasp, ideally.

Sometimes it's possible to knock the nest down when there are no wasps on it. Naturally this is easier with small nests as there are fewer wasps and a greater likelihood that they'll all be gone at the same time.

You can set out some bait to lure them away from the nest. It depends on the type of wasp, of course, but canned tuna can be effective.

Also good for attracting tigers. They're dumb that way.

Also depends on the time of year, apparently.

Got any crazy redneck relatives living nearby?

Most importantly, please have someone film your efforts at wasp removal so we can critique you later.

Not to be earnest (or anything dreadfully embarrassing like that), but biking feels like flying and standing in a subway car feels like being surrounded by sweaty angry strangers.

And a piece of anecdata: I have an uncle, 300 lbs maybe?, who has biked between Cleveland and Cape Cod, Alaska to Cape Cod, and multiple other long-distance rides. Being slender is not necessarily called for when going long distances.

We once had a yellowjacket gang that built their nest on the back door, such that anytime you opened the door, they got really mad. I got stung on teh ear once and so for a few days I had one normal ear and one that looked like some kind of inflated novelty ear, or like the ear on that side had been painted by Botero.

I had one normal ear and one that looked like some kind of inflated novelty ear

That was you?

120: Holy shit. I think the closest we have is CA's cousins in Australia. We'd have to fly them in, but I bet they'd be game.

124: Yeah, but you shoulda seen the wasp.

Being slender is not necessarily called for when going long distances.

It definitely isn't. Mostly what's needed is perseverance and gearing for big hills (e.g. the continental divide).

That being said, I suspect biking a few thousand miles (especially if you are carrying all of your gear and camping out) might do a lot to make you slender(er). On a 3000ish km trip, my food intake approximately doubled from normal and I still lost a little weight (maybe 10 lb? I didn't weigh) over a month.

127.last modulated as needed by genetics, activity level, etc.

125: You'd want to make sure your house wasn't flammable first, obviously. I don't suppose you had the foresight to buy an asbestos house?

127: I think I've mentioned a guy whom I met when he was three years into a four-year bike trip. He was rail-thin, and said that his biggest challenge at that point was keeping his weight up.

57

... This seems to be an unreasonably and unnecessarily high expectation of comfort on public transportation. ...

Since only poor people use public transportation and they are used to discomfort?

130: I can see that. On the other hand, it depends a bit how you do it. While touring I met a retired couple who'd been biking more or less continously at that point for five years or so. They had a slow and steady approach though, and made recuperation breaks.

If you try and keep a 100 mile /day pace up for any length of time (assuming packing your gear) it's going to be pretty wearing though. But that's not the only way to do it.

Shearer, public transportation isn't just for poor people.

I don't want to get on my bike and make my measly two-mile, entirely flat commute today because it's already feels incredibly hot, and it's only the mid-80s. It is going to get up to 103° ... which of course will be right when the library closes and I have to come home.

He definitely gets skinnier on trips (as do the rest of our bikey-bike family) but manages to make up for it later. I think that it's partially because of getting used to needing to eat like a teenager while on a bike trip, and then while stationary, continuing the trend.

130
Since only poor people use public transportation and they are used to discomfort?

This makes no sense in light of the two sentences following the one you quoted.

As does the rest...

and then while stationary, continuing the trend.

Common effect, that. I used to know a bunch of roadies, and around November they would all suddenly develop little tummies as their activity level dropped off faster than their appetites did.

88: Ha! As if you could make a living running a bookstore.

Word.

To the OP, about the red-faced and laboring to push the pedals around up the small hills -- I am not a fitness expert, but if it were me, I'd either try to let the biking take care of thigh-strengthening, or do some weight-training at the gym that involves the thing where you sit at a slight recline in front of a weighted vertical panel, plant your feet in front of you on that panel, and push it forward with your legs. Whatever that's called.

Long-distance Harry Pottering consumes calories at a lower exchange rate than hill-Harry-Pottering.

Leg presses, which are a poor substitute for squats.

But my plan is mostly to let the biking take care of it. I'm just mildly horrified by my starting point.

"where you sit at a slight recline in front of a weighted vertical panel, plant your feet in front of you on that panel, and push it forward with your legs"
twysasrifowvppyfifoyotpapifwyl

Actually, my father-in-law just fixed-up a 40 year old Schwinn (sp?) that I'm supposed to use to inspire the little one to use this trike. Lots of hills and a three-speed. Wee.

That's the train station near Snowdon, right?

Leg presses, which are a poor substitute for squats.

Really?? I'm horrified. Even when you gradually increase the weight on the leg presses? I guess you can do squats bearing weight(s).

Maybe these things (presses vs. squats) serve slightly different purposes.

145: That ends in 'fwyll' not 'fwyl'.

I guess you can do squats bearing weight(s).

In several different ways. The most common one being the back squat. And yes the leg press is a poor substitute for the free weight version.

Although I'm just being snobby about it -- I'm not actually lifting weights at the moment. I should start again, but the only exercising I've been doing the last six months or so is running and now biking this last week.

148: I don't belong to a gym now, but when I did I always avoided the free weights section. I was always afraid they'd make fun of my arms or try take my lunch money if I went over there.

Long-distance Harry Pottering consumes calories at a lower exchange rate than hill-Harry-Pottering.

Harry-Pottering with your daughter, your ex, and his girlfriend, however, burns the most calories of all.

And yes the leg press is a poor substitute for the free weight version.

Since only poor people use weight machines and they are used to inefficiency?

Since only poor people use weight machines and they are used to inefficiency?

Because it is basically an isolation exercise as opposed to a compound exercise.

151: Have you heard of the Fran Lebowitz High Stress Diet?

The extreme ectomorph physique is a fragile and delicate one. ... The limbs are relatively long in proportion and the shoulders droop.

Just because: Austin Daye, recently selected in the first round of the NBA draft, is 6' 10" (without shoes), with a standing reach of 9' 2", and weighs 192.

For some reason I didn't quite figure out just how skinny that is until watching this and seeing him in motion.

153: I know. I was just doing my hilarious Shearer imitation.

156: I thought you were funny, M/tch!

But then she realized she was wrong.

The few tiny little hills on that ride -- other than the one big hill I've been walking up, we're talking maybe a twenty foot change in elevation a couple of times on the trail?

Wow. I figured Manhatten was flat, but whoa. Manhatten is flat. I would build up some speed in the quarter mile prior to hill and when I passed whatever I was using as a marker, I'd downgear to the very bottom, stand up and start running the pedals around as fast as possible. When forward motion stops somewhere on the hill, get off and walk.

The idea would be to make it a little further up the hill each day; you can measure you progress. ('I made it to the bagel shop today!')

Oudemia: I want someone to come take the nest down and then, uh, take the wasps home to live with them on their farm.

Heh. See, I am more than content to let wasps live on without interference in a natural setting, as part of that big natural cycle of all life thing. OTOH, if they're under the eaves and buzzing me, they're more akin to the mafia or gangbangers trying to horn in on my civilizational action. In which case, they need to be sent to the morgue; I imagine they're just working off bad karma from their previous incarnations.

Anyways, the problem with the hairspray & lighter trick is that it's a little dangerous, and too short range. Starter fluid in a squeeze bottle (for lighting off the BBQ) will work pretty good, provided you've got a way to reach in and ignite it (lit newspaper?). Chopper is right; the 20-foot chemical spray shit works best.

If, however, you are lacking the materials, you can get all medieval/middle ages and use the Flying Broom method. That is, you grab the broom, and aim it such that the brush end is going to knock the nest down (which is all you need) and then you launch it into space. Then: RUN. Provided the nest is actually knocked down, the wasps should eventually move on in a coupla hours since they do not like their nests being on the ground.. If not, you can still gas the little bastards or hose them down, but from a much safer physical position.

max
['Just fulfilling your role in our interrelated ecosystem.']

||
Yesss!!
CalPERS is suing the big three ratings agencies for negligent misrepresentation.
Not as good as jail time for the principals, but better than nothing.
|>

Wow. I figured Manhatten was flat, but whoa. Manhatten is flat.

Manhattan is hilly. The Hudson river, which this trail runs along, is flat.

Haven't read the thread yet, since I'm on my iPod in the hospital waiting room waiting for my ride. I've started to wonder about my total lack of fitness. I am about to join the Y. There's this set of stairs (which is not that long) at Park Street station which leaves me slightly tired and a little sore. I don't normally feel this way after walking up stairs; it may just be because they're kind of short steps.

I've started to wonder about my total lack of fitness.

Robert Maynard Hutchins had the right answer for that.

CalPERS
Discovery is going to be interesting. But investment-grade ratings for bonds are built into ERISA and other regulations, aren't they? If the ratings agencies collpase, what happens to funds controlled by those rules?

Robert Maynard Hutchins had the right answer for that.

Apocryphal.

164: I have no idea what you just asked. All I know is that I want as many of those sumbitches to suffer as possible. I want wailing and gnashing of teeth, rending of garments, and bitter, bitter tears from those people. The ratings agencies are at the center of this mess, and since the people responsible will never receive the full measure of justice for their deeds, I'll settle for some lawsuits by deep pocketed plaintiffs.

Wait, maybe black widows! Yeah, that's the ticket.

Interesting that the black widow hangs out near the pointy end of the wasp during the fight.

I always avoided the free weights section. I was always afraid they'd make fun of my arms

Naw, darlin'. Come on over! We're all nice and friendly and would love to talk to you about protein.

166: He's saying if you destroy the rating agencies, it would unsettle the financial system even further. Which doesn't seem like a problem to me.

That said, I'm guessing the rating agencies don't have anything like the amount of money you'd need to pay for CalPERS's loses, even if CalPERS got put in front of every other pension plan.

167.last: And tell me long stories about your decisions in the area of more weight vs. more reps?

Yes! But if you were in the free weights section, you would want to hear them.

167: Megan if you keep talking about power lifting, someone is going to ask you to post pictures of your biceps.

SHOW US YOUR GUNS!

someone is going to ask you to post pictures of your biceps.

Why? biceps aren't that involved in power lifting. Pictures of her quads and glutes on the other hand.

173: Pictures of whose hand on her glutes?

Pictures of her... glutes on the other hand.

Precedent, in the case of In re Heebie's Ass, establishes that she should send any such pictures to me, and I'll forward them to anyone who admits that I'm right whenever I call something misogynist.

Heh. Such pictures exist. But so far I have had modesty and discretion and have not posted pictures of me in the singlet on the internets.

doesn't seem like a problem to me.

Bond issues are how local governments and smaller entities like hospitals and sewer districts stay afloat. CalPERS wants public shaming, not money, I think.

So how does one figure out how much weight to use? I figure 2 sets of 10 is about right, but my basis is high school gym memories. Clipboard carrying seems nuts. Websites seem uniformly terrible, so do books, worse than teach yourself to be a Java dummy in 21 days.

175: you forget about the precedent set by In re B's Tits.

Oh, lw asked...

Distinguishable on the basis that while tits and ass are linked concepts, tits are not ass.

"Bond issues are how local governments and smaller entities like hospitals and sewer districts stay afloat."

Our local government is going under quicker than CA's and I'd be happy if they couldn't dig the hole any deeper. As for the sewers, our district is so bad that we got nailed by Bush's EPA. Something about raw sewage in the river whenever it rains.

148: I guess you can do squats bearing weight(s).

In several different ways. The most common one being the back squat. And yes the leg press is a poor substitute for the free weight version.

Uh, serious question now: if I have so-called degenerative disk disease ("mild" so far) in my lower back, accompanied by a partially herniated/about to be herniated/sometimes herniates disk back down there, does it make sense that I do leg presses rather than squats? I'm kind of assuming that the p.t. prescribed leg presses with never a mention of squats for this reason. In much the same way, I do modified push-ups (on my knees rather than full plank position), and use the recumbent bike rather than an upright bike -- and indeed am shy of outdoor biking for back-stress reasons.

I'm hoping the answer is just a flat "yes, that makes sense", if indeed anyone is qualified to say. Otherwise I'm going to have to check out these squats of which you speak!

182: That sounds like a good question to ask the PT and not a group of ass freaks.

161: The Hudson river, which this trail runs along, is flat.

Ah. OK. Dallas is flatland (but not really), as people never cease to remind me, but biking around city streets it was not that flat.

182: I'm hoping the answer is just a flat "yes, that makes sense", if indeed anyone is qualified to say.

Yes, that makes sense. I assume the PT wishes you to avoid repeated flexing and/or stress on the disk, so anything that would involve your lower back (which is, oh, everything) is out. Squats would definately involve working your back muscles.

max
['Ow.']

Uh, serious question now: if I have so-called degenerative disk disease ("mild" so far) in my lower back, accompanied by a partially herniated/about to be herniated/sometimes herniates disk back down there, does it make sense that I do leg presses rather than squats?

Yes, a leg press puts no stress on your lower back, whereas a squat will.

183: Yep. I'm not seeing him any more, though.

184.2: Yeah. I've found that exercising/working out is as much about understanding what not to do -- knowing when you're going too far or doing too much -- as understanding what to do. I imagine this is the case whether you have a particular musculoskeletal issue or not.

(which is, oh, everything)

The funniest caution I have from the p.t. is: limit bending over from the waist. It turns out that if you attend to this, you notice that you normally bend over from the waist, like, constantly. (low hanging fruit, I know)

(but not really)

Well, maybe if your comparison is, like, Lubbock.

Texas is mostly pretty damn flat. The "hill country" in little tiny bumps.

Oh, and parsimon, the leg press vs. squats thing to avoid back stress makes sense.

I could ask [family member who is a PT] about it if you'd like, but suspect they will not hazard an opinion without actually seeing you...

188: Thanks, soup. I'm satisfied, though, that leg presses along with a variety of other things suffice. I can conceivably move on to more back-risky things if/when I'm confident that my core body strength is up to snuff enough -- which basically means, to me, a core body of steel! in which I'm completely confident -- to protect the lower back.

My p.t. did say at some point that there was no reason I couldn't eventually do yoga in every conceivable posture again (which made me laugh, but hey, it's a goal, and I still think he must have been joking, even though he wasn't).

knowing when you're going too far or doing too much

Yes. Don't kill yourself.

187: Well, maybe if your comparison is, like, Lubbock. Texas is mostly pretty damn flat.

Compared to SF, the mountains above LA, WV, PA, etc: yes. Compared to the Imperial Valley, central Nebraska, western Kansas, and apparently, the Hudson River bike trail, not so much.

max
['I biked home from school and it was uphill all the way... in 105 heat!']

Oh, there are lots of other parts of the country that are flat too, no doubt.

190: Central Nebraska isn't that flat in places. It isn't mountainous by any means, but it isn't all like you'd see from I-80. The sandhills are accurately named.

You know, in case anybody is planning a vacation or something.

183: Yep. I'm not seeing him any more, though.

It can get tiring seeing ass freaks. All my girlfriends have told me this.

And they were right, rob. Some of us just have strong noses.

172:

http://home.att.net/~hwill/ninemm.jpg

Uh, serious question now: if I have so-called degenerative disk disease ("mild" so far) in my lower back, accompanied by a partially herniated/about to be herniated/sometimes herniates disk back down there, does it make sense that I do leg presses rather than squats?

Just repeating other people, but yes in this case it definitely makes sense to do leg presses instead of squats.

197: Yes, I'm happy in what I'm doing. Generalized advice about what's right seems rarely right.

Kansas is officially flatter than a pancake, but which side of the pancake did they use?

The only bit of official advice that stuck with me, from reading several books, was to keep my pedaling at a constant rate and rather fast. This seems to work very well; I frequently pass 'stand on the pedal'ers who look fitter than me -- and are definitely riding faster bikes -- either as we leave a stoplight heading up a hill, or near the top of a hill.

192: Central Nebraska isn't that flat in places.

I know. Neither is OK or TX. It's not Colorado though. (And after much searching Google refused to turn up the website of a town in panhandle Nebraska which, when I saw it last, indicated the town consisted mostly of corn and had pictures to prove it. Dammit.)

198: Generalized advice about what's right seems rarely right.

Well, giant shoe conglomerate or not, 'Just do it' seems to work pretty good.

max
['Provided you check with your doctor about your heart condition if your over 40.']

Is it just me, or does It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia start to suck as the McPoyles begin to play a more and more prominent role?

201: You don't think the one where they try out for the Eagles is the funniest thing in the world? If so, then yes, it is just you.

when you get into shape you should try riding up the hudson. Route 9W is pretty nice. You also get semi real hills (not like mountain stages, but ranging up to a mile plus in length). Also, there's a reason why French biking lingo has a term for seemingly flat, but not really stretches 'faux plat'.

200: 'Just do it' seems to work pretty good.

It doesn't, sweetheart. That's my point. It all depends on what you do. I wouldn't want to go running if I had a heart arrythmia; I might switch to swimming. Nor would I go jogging if my lower back were slowly disintegrating. But whatever; I'm sure we see each other's point, and are just glancing off one another, and I'm being grumpy. The "just do it" routine can be annoying.

204: Yes, care is warranted. One thing to keep in mind: Muscle and bone can usually heal. Cartilage and nerve tissue, not so much.

Cartilage and nerve tissue, not so much.

God yes. Or no, in this case. Funnily, I'm mostly trying to keep my comments in line with the post title, "Fitness is weird."

Well, take care. My knowledge is so far only professional.

207: Oh, thank you. Care is taken. I hope I haven't given the impression that I'm a physical basket case -- not at all. I'm just so aware of the danger of permanently damaging my sciatic nerve that I err on the side of caution with respect to certain forms of exercise.

"hope I haven't given the impression that I'm a physical basket case -- not at all. "

You hadn't.

Route 9W is pretty nice

Also the answer to the question: "So, Herr Wagner, do you spell your name with a V?"

In other news, padded shorts are wonderful things, and I made it halfway up the bad hill (it's a steep bit, a flat bit, and then another steep bit. I got up the first steep bit before having to walk.) Tomorrow, I do the round trip -- in and back the same day.

And while I was being snobbish about leg presses, certainly if your back is a worry, weighted squats are a bad idea. (Body-weight squats -- just deep knee bends, essentially -- might still be an exercise you'd look at.)

Swimming is GREAT exercise! Biking leads to bike accidents. As the old saying goes, there are two kinds of bikers, those who have been in accidents, and those who will be in accidents.

I separated my shoulder badly in a bike accident.

As the old saying goes, there are two kinds of bikers, those who have been in accidents, and those who will be in accidents.

The sneaky thing is, you can be in both classes at once.

I was trying not to stress that aspect too much.

As the old saying goes, there are two kinds of swimmers, those who have had accidents, and those who will be wondering why the water was warm in that one spot.

204:But whatever; I'm sure we see each other's point, and are just glancing off one another, and I'm being grumpy.

Giant Shark vs. Mega Octopus.

The "just do it" routine can be annoying.

The commercials are annoying, yes. However, the disc in your lower back will continue to degenerate even if you become a true couch potato. But becoming a true couch potato will also damage the rest of you, and your back will not be any better.

If you prefer you can make it, 'Just do something but talk to the doctor first.'

214: I was trying not to stress that aspect too much.

In the long run, we're all dead.

max
['Oops.']

Swimming is GREAT exercise! Biking leads to bike accidents.

Yeah LB, you should just jump in the Hudson and swim to work instead! How many swim commuting accidents are there every year? Not many, I bet!

I've got to work on swimming. I've never been able to do it. I get tired after a few laps, even if I'm just going slowly--I'm fine with the breast stroke, but my free style/crawl is a disaster. Plus, I can't swim in a straight line. I'm going to take some lessons again, but I'm afraid that I wouldn't be able to manage the etiquette of proper open lap swim time.

I offered to give swim lessons at Unfogged DCon.

219: I think it was the air quotes you put around "swim lessons" that scared everyone off.

91: What a great description. Also, something to tell pedestrians who are nervous that a cyclist may hit them. A cyclist won't; he or she will see pedestrians coming a mile off and will just go around. I will, however, confess to having recently bullied a pedestrian on a zebra crossing ('crosswalk') to a stand-still mid-crossing. I was attempting to time my braking so that he would cross just in front of me, but it didn't work. So I cycled around behind the man, just as he stood there; this - I later learned - was nonetheless a violation of his right of way.

Cycling on the flat is a joy. Hills are a horror. I recently took the bike to the country (visiting the parent) and found that even minor slopes were cripplingly tough to cycle up. Every gram of body fat is working against you in such situations.

Hrm. The thirteen mile commute one way isn't bad. Oddly, however, thirteen miles in the morning and then another thirteen miles back home at night? That got long.

Oh well, if I keep doing it, it'll get easier.

I don't suggest doing it every day. But it does get easier; alternatively, you just find yourself going quicker. I was surprised to find that no amount of gym will do what cycling will do in the leg department. It must have good cv effects also, but that's not something you can see in the mirror, which is, let's face it, the only kind of result a rational person wants.

Oh, my day-to-day life involves enough stairs that cv fitness is nice -- it makes grocery shopping much less laborious. I'm not expecting much in the way of weight-loss, given my somewhat expansive diet.

Well, since one should always have a goal in mind, why not plan to enter this?

Rules for the event are pretty straightforward; helmets are a must, as are a blazer or suit jacket, collared shirt and tie.

That does sound like my speed, bike-racing wise.

Hills on bikes are harder than you expect. I can outrun bikers on sufficiently steep hills. I found biking frustrating because the flats were too easy, but the uphills were ridiculously hard.

When I spend a lot of time biking I find that I prefer hills to flats in a headwind. Winds are endlessly frustrating, and hills cut the wind. Also, there's the gratification of reaching the top, which you don't get on the flats.