I haven't begun my usual research
Posting on Unfogged is how I begin my usual research.
I think you can't go wrong with either choice--which I'd do in your position depends on what the specific plans were, and who you'd be visiting, etc.
It sounds like you'd rather go to Portland, and I think a half day of vacation burned in travel isn't too high a price to pay.
Choosing between the two is like asking me which leg I'd rather cut off. They're both fabulous; I'd go with your gut reaction, or, because I'm lazy, the easiest option.
Been to Seattle, have friends there. Love it. Great city, great nature. If you have any affinity for forests and oceans, Seattle + a ferry-accesible island.
Good friends are hard to keep is on the other side of the scale.
Other attractions to be beheld in Portland:
- Cajun food
- Strippers (or so I understand)
- A bookstore of some repute
- A bridge of some sort
- Ogged, who moved there several months ago
Unfortunately, I've never been to Portland aside from the airport. But: Seattle is gorgeous and fun!
There are zillions of outdoorsy things to do nearby: hike near Mt Rainier, or in the Olympics, or go to a quiet place along the coast and do some sea kayaking.
Downtown: wander through Pike Place Market, shop at Elliott Bay Books in Pioneer Square, go to the aquarium. Take the ferry to Bainbridge Island? Find tasty seafood somewhere. Check out the view from Kerry Park. Maybe the Experience Music Project? (Last went there ~10 years ago, and don't remember it all that well.)
It's a beautiful, walkable city, and absolutely stunning in summer.
Portland is cool enough to be worth the trip, and the journey between them can also be worthwhile, so I'd do it. Seattle is neat, but not as concentratedly interesting.
(also, something is weird on the site - I'm seeing a lot of literal "horizontal rule" phrases where I'd expect to see the lines, front page and comments.)
I've been to Seattle, but don't remember much about the city proper. I do recall Mt. St. Helens (not that I was there when it blew) and the rain forest that looked like where you would except to find the Mystery Machine stuck so Scooby and the gang had to stay at the creepy mansion.
The ~10yrs comment applies only to the EMP, if that wasn't clear.
You could also take a look at the wacky Rem Koolhaas Seattle Public Library.
Oh, right, can't miss the rain forests. Olympic National Park is one place for that. Good place to see bald eagles, too.
Seattle or Portland? I'm hurt that you even had to ask.
Unless strippers is a bigger appeal to you than I'm guessing, Seattle is way better. Sure, Portland has Powells, but who really likes books? Books suck.
Plus, the Sleater-Kinney sign is in Olympia, which is closer to Seattle than Portland.
Books suck.
ITYM "Books are a load of crap".
I thought about it - as opposed to the knee jerk hyperbole above - and I'd choose Seattle.
I'm dying to try out some of the breweries and pubs in Portland, and I did like the feel of the place last I was there, but I realized that I had much more fun, overall, in Seattle and the near vicinity. Essear nails many of the fun things, plus, I just love riding the ferry out to the islands. Also, there many restaurants that I would like to eat at.
6, 13: Just out of curiosity, is Portland renowned for its strippers? There seem to be strippers pretty much everywhere.
16: Portland has so many strip clubs that they actually have to compete on the type and quality of food. At one point, there was a vegan strip club.
If you visit Seattle and neglect the Olympic peninsula then you are a fool. I'm projecting here, but only because I'm in love with botany. Even if you aren't, experiencing a temperate rain forest should be up there on your priorities.
With regard to North by Northwest, it is interesting that Cary Grant plays a guy who is clearly in his young 50s and the female lead must be 22 or so.
With regard to North by Northwest, it is interesting that Cary Grant plays a guy who is clearly in his young 50s and the female lead must be 22 or so.
Becks, go to Portland. I'll send blackberries for you to swap with Jesus for wine.
Clearly we should have an Unfogged meetup in the Olympics.
17: And this is just general knowledge, like Chicago has pizza with too much crust or Akron smells funny?
I'd go for Seattle for the islands and ferries as well. I have no idea why Ogged opted for Portland; more affordable, maybe.
Why don't you just keep your blackberries and make wine out of it, will?
I have no idea why Ogged opted for Portland; more affordable, maybe.
Probably something to do with all the strippers, and I think he mentioned something about collaborating with Emerson on some writing.
OT: Any suggestions for things to do in Sedona in August? Places to see?
Clearly we should have an Unfogged meetup in the Olympics.
Seriously. We went there a lot when I was a child and I'm always impressed. Plus, Washington state parks (and of course the national park there) are fantastic.
I would like to go to the San Juan islands as well. A few years back my step-dad dangled the possibility of a kayak trip to the Broken Islands, due north. I'm still disappointed that it didn't happen.
24: Outside of the Pacific Northwest it's a completely obscure fact, but inside the Pacific Northwest it's well known. Though really, every single fact about the Pacific Northwest is an obscure fact outside the Pacific Northwest.
Wait, Emerson and Ogged are living in the same town? Strange.
My wife and I got married in the San Juans.
26.last: I have no doubt you are entirely correct.
I'm due for a trip to that area and northward, but there's no way it will happen this year.
A few years back my step-dad dangled the possibility of a kayak trip to the Broken Islands, due north
I've done this trip, it's amazing. I hear pretty crowded these days in peak season though.
The San Juans/Gulf Islands (the other half, in Canada) are beautiful. As is Olympic park, and Strathcona Park on Vancouver island. For that matter, most of Vancouver island.
Though really, every single fact about the Pacific Northwest is an obscure closely guarded fact outside the Pacific Northwest.
it is interesting that Cary Grant plays a guy who is clearly in his young 50s, while his mother is played by Jessie Royce Landis, in reality just eight years older than him.
The San Juans/Gulf Islands (the other half, in Canada) are beautiful. As is Olympic park, and Strathcona Park on Vancouver island. For that matter, most of Vancouver island.
Don't make me cry, you.
There's a fair bit of travel time involved in getting to the Olympics from Seattle. As in, if that's what a person with just a few days free wants to do, best give the city a cursory look and plan on spending most of your time on the peninsula.
Seattle's better for typical touristy stuff, I think, and it has a more spectacular location. But it also has lots of traffic, and hotels are really expensive. In Portland, you're a short drive from really great hiking in the Columbia Gorge, and a little over an hour's drive from the ocean, wine country and Mt. Hood. Our food and drink are as good as theirs. Plus, strippers.
Neb is having you on about ogged. No way would he move to someplace where it rains. And Will, you have a standing invitation any time you want to come out here and help make the damn wine yourself. Also, I'll repeat an offer to arrange tours to local distilleries for anyone who cares to visit me in my provincial outpost.
of a kayak trip to the Broken Islands, due north
Come to think of it, were you meaning the Gulfs Islands?
The Broken Islands aren't due north of there, they're on the west coast of Vanc. Island., so a fair bit west of there. The exposed pacific makes for some fun kayaking (I've done it in a canoe actually, a bit exposed for that).
The San Juans \& Gulf Islands group is so protected it's some of the easiest paddling around.... do have to watch the rip tides a bit (hits 14 knots in places) but beautiful and very accessible. Not enough parks in bits of them.
and a little over an hour's drive from the ocean,
And it is worth noting that Oregon beaches are spectacular.
I want to hike in a gorge and tour distilleries! Damn!
Come to think of it, were you meaning the Gulfs Islands?
The Broken Islands aren't due north of there, they're on the west coast of Vanc. Island., so a fair bit west of there.
Nah, I was being lazy about geography. I knew they were in Canada. Canada is always north.
Jesus:
BR and I looked at heading to Portland but it lost out to Sedona.
But, when we go there, we will make wine with you and we can go to the Lucky Labrador Brew Pub and see my friend. (A guy showed up to a party of mine last week with a Lucky Lab shirt. Small world.)
Don't make me cry, you.
It's one of my favourite parts of the world. Why does it make you cry? There is a nearly week long alpine route in Strathcona that might do that [make you cry ... it's exquisite].
I went kayaking somewhere in the San Juan islands area. Twice, possibly (it's possible the other time was elsewhere in the Pacific Northwest). I hate kayaking, but didn't know it until then.
But it also has lots of traffic, and hotels are really expensive.
But there's no particular reason to drive unless leaving the city. And ~$100/night hotels are not hard to find, which doesn't hit the "really expensive" mark for me, but maybe I've just stayed in too many places with insane hotel prices.
parenthetical is a northwest woman?
No, but my step-father had summers off (teacher) so we took very long camping vacations in our VW bus, and often our destination was Washington and Oregon.
I want to hike in a gorge and tour distilleries! Damn!
If only there were some way. You're welcome to sleep on our couch, neb.
I went kayaking somewhere in the San Juan islands area. Twice, possibly (it's possible the other time was elsewhere in the Pacific Northwest). I hate kayaking, but didn't know it until then.
Dude! You don't like kayaking BUT you got to do one of my dream kayak trips? So not fair.
(I am not the world's best kayaker, but I always have fun. I just like being in them - and canoes. You get to see so much!)
Port Townsend has a really nice post office. If you're killing 4 hours waiting for a ferry, it's hard to miss.
If you're renting a car, there are a million cheap motels along Aurora Avenue.
Nah, I was being lazy about geography. I knew they were in Canada. Canada is always north.
Fair enough. It's just that the Gulf Islands are actually due north of there -- -and have great kayaking.
But once you're on the West coast, both the Brooks penninsula and Cape Scott are pretty amazing places to paddle.
39: Neb is having you on about ogged.
Phew. For a minute there, I thought ogged had stopped being dead.
max
['Also, I don't think Emerson knows he's gay.']
We are kayaking this weekend on the James! About freaking time.
Dude! You don't like kayaking BUT you got to do one of my dream kayak trips? So not fair.
What??? How did you think I didn't like kayaking? It took me years of living places I couldn't ship it to before I finally sold my kevlar expedition kayak.
Portland does sound nice though. Pity that good excuses to go there never come up for me. Someday I'll just have to take a random vacation there.
And if you want to go way inland along the Columbia River, you can see Stonehenge!
But there's no particular reason to drive unless leaving the city.
Right. So for typical tourist stuff, not a problem, but if you want to get out to the wilderness, you have to deal with it. Nature seems closer in Portland.
Seattle does have Safeco Field, though, which counts for a lot for some people.
Soup:
Will you soon be in a kayaking friendly place?
never mind 57, I can't read.
Don't hate me Parenthetical, but for a while I was going paddling in the Gulf Islands a couple times a week. Sure miss that.
I'm not going to rent a car but both cities have Zipcar, of which I am a member, in case I want one for a couple of hours.
Will you soon be in a kayaking friendly place?
It's possible!
I'm thinking about when to go to Portland. This is going to happen.
39: Neb is having you on about ogged.
No way!
45: It's one of my favourite parts of the world. Why does it make you cry?
I just really like it there, and would like to go back. It moves me.
I just got back from Montauk today. It was great.
Wrong end of the country, of course, but I enjoyed it. You drive out on Long Island until all the trees get little and stunted and the fancy shops of the Hamptons disappear and all you have are a small huddle of hotels and pubs and a bunch of trucks full of surfcasting fishermen. Nice time out there.
59. If you can't see the real one, you should see the really fake one.
http://www.carhenge.com/
And if you want to go way inland along the Columbia River, you can see Stonehenge!
We go right by there when we pick up our grapes. Pretty striking location, with an interesting little museum.
I just really like it there, and would like to go back. It moves me.
this place I miss.
__
O hai, does anyone know why Balloon Juice is making my browser give a malware warning?
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Don't hate me Parenthetical, but for a while I was going paddling in the Gulf Islands a couple times a week. Sure miss that.
I will try to restrain the hate. Actually, that's awesome. If I ever get the chance to get up there again, I'll be making a plea for advice on here!
No way would he move to someplace where it rains.
You don't know the half of it.
73: "We are still apparently dealing with the malware thing, and to be honest, I am at my wits end. We are flagged, but there is no malware on the site according to all the malware sites and google. A false flag, I guess. Just give it time."
Portland is fine, but it seems to me a nicer place to live than to visit (e.g. when you visit you probably won't have a bike). Certainly there's no reason to go out of your way to go their instead of Seattle. I'd suggest splitting time between Seattle and nature near Seattle. If you like hiking there's Olympic national park and Rainier, but even just a ferry ride across the sound is spectacular on a nice day.
39 is right about wine country though, that is a definite plus of Portland over Seattle.
72: I can see why. Ahem. You're trying to hurt me now, aren't you? (kidding)
I have friends on the B.C. coast, on Hornby and Saltspring Islands, and on the inner coast of Vancouver Island. It's been 3-4 years since I visited. The time I've otherwise spent in the coastal pacific northwest ... well, the only other blow-you-away and/or shut-you-up-and-look, be quiet, coastline I've found is in Maine, way over here in the northeast.
21: The new exclamation to herald a double post!
well, the only other blow-you-away and/or shut-you-up-and-look, be quiet, coastline I've found is in Maine, way over here in the northeast.
I agree (where North America is concerned), with the addition of Big Sur.
If you do end up going to Seattle, make the time to check out the Underground Tour (undergroundtour.com). Very cool. San Juans are as advertised. If you like sushi, it's wicked-fresh and not necessarily expensive.
That was supposed to end with a question mark.
Like Parenthetical's, my family took a few car camping trips to the northwest, and I've been to Vancouver and Victoria a couple of times, but thinking about it, I've barely spent any time in Seattle or Portland. We had relatives in Vancouver, WA, but when we visited we went into Portland maybe for a day. I spent the night in Seattle once, but only on the way back south. We did do a little tourist stuff in the afternoon/evening.
80: with the addition of Big Sur
I thought about adding that.
The American southwesterners will rightly note that this leaves out, well, the canyons. But I was wisely specifying coastline, I see.
As for ogged's whereabouts, y'all are being mysterious, and I figure at this point that he's moved to the desert.
"I figure at this point that he's moved to the desert."
On a horse with no name?
addition of Big Sur
Outside of North America, Northwest Norway is pretty amazing. The end of the train ride from Sweden had an almost western North America kind of feel (in contrast to other train rides in Europe I've been on): only a few passenger departures, freights hogging the track, and a town at the end of the line (Narvik) in a gorgeous setting with a huge transhipment port at its center for sending extracted natural resources out into the world.
"O' Horten" is a great movie with great computer-aided footage of Norwegian train travel.
86: http://www.lyricsfreak.com/a/america/a+horse+with+no+name_20007105.html
A few years ago Becks posted some pictures of spectacular desert coastline in Australia.
And Scotland (and Ireland, from what I hear) also has some awe-inspiring spots. As does the south of France.
The train ride from Seattle to Portland (and back again) is wonderful. Okay, it's not the most active part of a trip, but it's beautiful and scenic and the clam chowder you can buy from the dining car is really not bad. I wouldn't consider that half day wasted at all. It's such an incredible coastline.
And Scotland (and Ireland, from what I hear) also has some awe-inspiring spots. As does the south of France.
Not to mention the mountains between Pakistan and Afghanistan. Seriously awe-inspiring. Everybody should go there. Now.
I know you're joking, but when I was younger (ie, between the Russia-Afghan war and 2001) that was definitely on my list of places I desperately wanted to see.
Also, those were meant to be specifically coastline awe-inspiring spots. I should have made that more clear.
Only half joking. When I was sixteen I was lucky enough to spend a holiday here. It was unbelievable.
And now WP has deleted the tourist section of its article (rightly). So sad.
Also, if you go just a bit south of the southernmost tip of Puget Sound, you get Pyramid-Kemper breweries. Pyramid has the best porter I've ever had, Thomas Kemper has the best root beer I've ever had. They also provide meat.
Not sure if this has been suggested above, but a great way to spend a couple of days is devote one to doing tourist stuff in Seattle and another to taking the ferry from Seattle to Victoria--both for the ferry ride itself and for visiting Victoria. One day in Seattle if sufficient in my view and if you are going to spend time travelling, spend it on the ferry, not on I-5 driving to Portland.
94: they are indeed awesome. The Iranian mountains, especially up near the Turkish border, are probably more practical though. (Climb Mt Ararat!)
I loved both cities -- I don't think you can go wrong either way. The Columbia River gorge is a must if you choose Portland. The Underground Tour in Seattle was definitely worthwhile. I stayed at The Heathman in Portland and loved it. The only hotel I've ever stayed in that had a French press for the in-room coffee. In Seattle, we had a great dinner at Salty's. Seattle was my honeymoon, I puked for no known reason for half the trip, and I still really like Seattle, so it has to be pretty good.
I puked for no known reason for half the trip
Isn't that ironic?
Does Portland still have that Chinese restaurant Hung Far Lo? I remember seeing that there when I was about 12. We were on a car/camping trip from Austin to Vancouver, BC for an algae conference.
It was near Hung Far Lo that a scruffy looking, probably homeless guy on crutches gave our scruffy looking been-on-the-road-for-a-week family the once over, grinned menacingly, and said "You rich people should be shot!"
Even then I knew he was just trying to freak out the squares though.
Does Portland still have that Chinese restaurant Hung Far Lo?
Sort of. It recently moved (along with most of the rest of Chinatown) to the east side. The iconic sign was taken down as well, and there's a campaign to get it put back up. They'd probably restore the "tails" to "cocktails", though, which would be a shame.
Whoo hoo! How perfect!
I'm going to Seattle in the first week of September. Arriving Aug 31 and leaving on the morning of the 8th. My girlfriend and I will probably spend the last 3-4 days in the city, but we're looking to spend the first half of the trip in the rainforest.
Olympic Park sounds great, but do you all have any recommendations for how we should stay out there? Will we need to secure some camping gear? Should we just be able to sleep in the car, so we only have to worry about decent hiking gear?
Come on, there are lots of awe-inspiring coastline spots in California, from a bit south of Big Sur all the way up the coast north of SF.
Corsica might have the greatest coastline I've ever visited in person...part is that it is backed by massive snow-capped Alpine mountains looking inland, just 20 or 30 miles from the beach.
Come on, there are lots of awe-inspiring coastline spots in California.
California coast is pretty but boring in the south. A bit more interesting as you head north, and bits of Oregon. Generally the west coast improves as you go north for sheer aesthetics alone.
The combination of mountains and coastline in close proximity is pretty hard to beat (see Vancouver). I've never been to Corsica, but it sounds beautiful.
Seattle plus Victoria. Don't forget to bring your passport.
So can anyone help me on the best way to shelter one's self at night while exploring Olympic Park around Seattle? Please?
108: How long are you going to spend there? I haven't been at all recently, so don't have a feel for current state of local facilities.
108: The carcass of a large, recently gutted animal.
111: Bigfoot will come if you do that.
re 108, if you're looking for day hiking sorts of exploring, you could stay in or around port angeles... lapush is really worth a look too (nearby park on the coast). I remember 15-20 camping areas in the park, some would require tents certainly but I think not all. My info is out of date though, as noted.
erm, lapush is a place on the coast anyway. i can't remember if it's technically part of Olympic park, or another one. There is a whole strip of park on the coast there, at any rate.
113: Now if I could just get the cryptozoologists to look at the sample, I'd be famous.
So can anyone help me on the best way to shelter one's self at night while exploring Olympic Park around Seattle? Please?
These are now available for $100,000 off.
109: We've got 8 nights in Seattle overall. We're looking to spend the last 4 in the city and the first 4 in nature.
Securing a tent and doing a 2-day trek or something would certainly be a possibility, but we're probably looking for a nice campsite or middle-of-nowhere-hotel pretty far in the park to stay in and hike around.
118: Our REI rents tents. They may not do that in Seattle because the mildew kills the tent too quickly.
It's famously very difficult to get cryptozoölogists to come out of hiding.
120: Mr. Umlat, I've got a picture of one, but it is kind of blurry.
As for ogged's whereabouts, y'all are being mysterious, and I figure at this point that he's moved to the desert.
But after 40 years he'll lead us to the promised land, like a true Mexican.
The Seattle REI rents camping equipment.
123.2: Hooray! Thanks, Michael!
Soup, any particular recommendations for campsites or regions of the park to visit? They may be old, but I figure nature changes over much slower time periods than we do.
124:
Hurricane Ridge is beautiful
Staircase or Hoh area for real old growth rainforest
I think I mentioned the coast around La Pus
tide tables (online prior, or at trailheads probably) useful in some coastal areas. Beach trails to submerge. The beach hiking there is great, and a real scramble in places.
THe 'rainshadow' area is harder to get to, likely to be quiet, and also beautiful.
oh, and take a filter or pack your water, as Olympic has giardia in the water.
PMP -- I don't have much to offer for camping recommendations (particularly south of Seattle), but I'm in the area and you should drop me an e-mail if you like (and Becks as well, but I just sent you an e-mail).
Sleater-Kinney Rd is a really sorry excuse for a tourist attraction, but it's just under an hour from downtown Seattle if you must. Driving from Seattle to Portland pretty much sucks, so with limited time I'd stick to Seattle and environs. In addition to the other suggestions that have been made, going up to the Skagit Valley, cutting over to Chuckanut Drive and up it to Bellingham, and poking about Bellingham a bit could be fun. Not a whole lot there, but lots of scenery and last I knew a pleasant bookstore and cafe, pottery and woodworking shops, and the like in Fairhaven, the part of Bellingham where Chuckanut ends up.
as Olympic has giardia in the water.
Doesn't pretty much the whole of the West Coast have giardia in the water? Or do you mean even the stuff that comes out of the taps in the camp ground?
Doesn't pretty much the whole of the West Coast have giardia in the water?
Depends where you are, and it's range has been growing. But I just mentioned it because I'm not sure where Po-Mo is coming from, and if that would be obvious to them (it isn't to everyone).
I have no current information about what water supplies there are and where; besides most camping I've done there was no facilities, anyway.
Huh. I don't camp much at all, but I thought giardia was worldwide by now.
131: Ah. I figured if they were going to be in a car they'd probably be camping at a place with facilities. But it hadn't occurred to me that people might not know that the water isn't generally safe to drink without a filter; I guess I had fear of giardia et al. instilled in me at a very young age.
i mention things like that on a better safe than sorry basis, not that I really expect people to be surprised. There was talk of an overnight into the park, so I thought of it.
NickS - I didn't get your email.
Odd, I sent it from this address to becks@unfogged.com about three hours ago.
In any case, there's probably no reason to keep my location secret. I'm in the town NPH mentioned in 129, and I wanted to encourage anyone who's in the neighborhood to stop by and say hi.
130-134: Warning well taken. I've never been in the habit of drinking river or lake water unfiltered, given my youthful travels to a number of exotic places populated by equally exotic diseases, but we'll be sure to pack a filter with the 1-micrometer pore size.
Does giardia pose danger even for just swimming/bathing in streams or lakes? Or is it mostly a concern for drinking?
NickS, I'll definitely shoot you an email if we're heading up that way. I haven't had time to look at the map and see where all these places are relative to one another yet, but that should be soon.
Does giardia pose danger even for just swimming/bathing in streams or lakes? Or is it mostly a concern for drinking?
My understanding is that as long as you're not swallowing the water, you're ok to swim in giardia infested waters. And I've been doing it since I was small and never gotten it, so I'm guessing that's a correct understanding.
(It's spread through fecal matter. Once you're infected, if you don't practice good hygiene you could infect someone else by touching, etc, but I don't think just being in the water is a problem. Wash your hands with soap after.)
There's a really nice state park with cabins on the Olympic peninsula, Kalaloch lodge.
Bellingham is indeed beautiful, and if your car breaks down, I can recommend a good mechanic.
but I don't think just being in the water is a problem
Sadly, this turns out not to be true. But it is a low risk.
Some information on giardia and swimming from the CDC.
Sadly, this turns out not to be true. But it is a low risk.
Really? I just went looking for information on it and didn't see that! Now I'm going to be paranoid.
Bellingham is indeed beautiful, and if your car breaks down, I can recommend a good mechanic.
For that matter, there's a new auto shop run by a friend of a friend that I would definitely recommend.
143 re 141. The problem is that any ingesting of water can do it, through mouth, nose, maybe ears (dunno about that last). So you don't actually need to drink the water to get it.
However, it's a very low risk. Drinking contaminated water is much, much higher risk.
145: Oh, ok. I knew about the problem of ingesting it even in small quantities. It is for this reason that I generally don't stick my head underwater in giardia infested waters, and then get made fun of.
(I am overly paranoid about these things, yes. In most instances I am as far from a germophobe as can be, but giardia scares me.)
The tactic in 146 is hard to manage if, for example, your canoe has just capsized in the rapids or you're forced to roll a kayak.
But if you're not driving some schmancy european "car", then check out M/lls Automotive.
146: True enough. Then I'm too busy wondering how to get back up/in to worry about the prospect of diarrhea for six weeks.
fwiw, 147, iiuc you're much more likely to get it in a swimming pool or (highest risk) day care than that case.
But if you're not driving some schmancy european "car", then check out M/lls Automotive.
Yes and, really, since I don't have a car nobody should take my recommendations anyway.
152: I can think of an even higher risk swimming locale.
As far as I understand, you're much more likely to catch pretty much anything in a daycare center. I'm kind of amazed that France's systems of childhood creches haven't produced some form of super-plague yet. On the bright side, everyone I know who worked with young kids for a while says that they've been the picture of health ever since they left.
152: Two places I do not spend much time in. I suppose that will change if I have kids. And, I'll have to wear mom jeans. Oh, the horrors.
I live in Seattle, and visit Portland beaucoup.
Both are fab destinations. I'd characterize Portland as a more livable city (peerless public transportation, smaller and easier to get around), Seattle a better visitor's city -- waterfront, restaurants, scenery, outdoors activities, etc. Do you hike or fish? Seattle for sure.
Eating at the spinning restaurant at the top of the Space Needle is spendy but you'll never forget it.
When you get to either city, just ask any local the Top Ten things they do when visitors come to town, and then just follow their list. You won't be disappointed.
You can't lose with either, whichever you choose.
You can Amtrak between 'em easy, btw.
Oh, and Portland strip clubs are renowned because you can look at naked women, AND they'll serve you beer and burgers. For some, it doesn't get any better than that. For some.
ok people, I still need Sedona recomendations! Please.
"You can Amtrak between 'em easy, btw."
I'm sort of pissed that I can't really Amtrak anywhere easily. It is much quicker to drive to Philly than take the train. As for Chicago, forget it. You have to leave at midnight.
ok people, I still need Sedona recomendations! Please.
I've never been. I can tell you all about Flagstaff, though.
I think what I meant about I can tell you all about Flagstaff is that there's a great VW repair shop there, so when you break down on your Southwest family trip, you can have your car towed there, because there's no place to fix a VW on the Navajo reservation, which is where you originally broke down and then spent a week going to Monument Valley every day. By the time you get to Flagstaff, you'll be so pleased about the prospect of a working vehicle that you'll be jumping for joy, and even if you take in a few of the sights you won't really remember them by name.
(That said, I enjoyed the hiking).
161: If you go a bit north of Flagstaff, there is a geologically important and scenic ditch.
ok people, I still need Sedona recomendations! Please.
Stevie Nicks' Fajita Roundup?
Eating at the spinning restaurant at the top of the Space Needle is spendy but you'll never forget it.
We found the service rude and inattentive and the food mediocre at best. You're right, though. I've never forgotten it...
Like Parenthetical, I've never been to Sedona but have been to Flagstaff. But don't remember much about the town itself. Aside from the obvious, you could go to the Wupatki National Monument and to Sunset Crater.
Aside from the obvious, you could go to the Wupatki National Monument and to Sunset Crater.
Yeah, I felt bad about my not helpful at all comment so I just went looking at the map to see if I could place what we did. We went to those places, and I very much enjoyed it.
Sadly, though, my knowledge of Arizona is really limited to the more Northern and Southern parts of the state - I can recommend the North Rim of the Grand Canyon most enthusiastically, as well as Kayenta and surrounds. I enjoyed the Sonoran Desert Nation Monument, but farther south is the best, as far as birding (and scenery, in my mind) is concerned. Tucson, Madera Canyon, Chiricahua National Monument, all recommended.
Aside from being pretty, Sunset Crater gives you the rare opportunity to use the words a'a and pahoehoe in context, which is always fun.
Montezuma Castle Nat'l Monument not far south of Sedona is a nice cliff dwelling. I've not been, but Jerome, Arizona is a nearby former mining town now art center. Potentially quite touristy, but I've heard it is worth a visit if you are out that way.
Sleater-Kinney Rd is a really sorry excuse for a tourist attraction, but it's just under an hour from downtown Seattle if you must.
I live a mile away from Sleater-Kinney, and I don't think I've ever gotten to Seattle in less than an hour. On a summer afternoon it would take closer to two. Definitely not worth it. Then again, I don't like the band.
I recommend Portland along with a trip to the coast. Very nice this time of year.
The Experience Music Project is a waste of time and money.
ok people, I still need Sedona recomendations! Please.
My recommendation is to keep driving, but then, I don't like Santa Fe either. I must admit I drove straight through Sedona when I was there a few years ago.
Jerome was interesting, in a little-more-on-the-hill sort of way. I mean, I always expected to fall off.
If you are going through Winslow (and who wouldn't?) I've always intended to stay here but never have. I also like the Salt River canyon drive from Globe to Show Low.
While I've only passed through, let me just say that I found Bellingham to be an exceedingly pleasant place to spend an afternoon. (We detoured there on our drip through the PNW so I could buy a laptop bag at the Brenthaven store--totally worth it.) I seem to recall a really good burrito place.
I found Bellingham to be an exceedingly pleasant place to spend an afternoon.
And, just to remind everyone, if you happen to be passing though Bellingham you should visit my brother's ice cream store.
I can give the full sales pitch if anyone is interested, but I will say that I'm not recommending it just because of the family connection, it really is worth a visit if you're even considering heading through Bellingham.
170.1: Huh. I have it stuck in my head that it's almost exactly an hour from the NE 45th on-ramp to the downtown Olympia off-ramp, assuming no traffic delays, but it's been a long time since I drove that route routinely.
I think of S-K Rd. as roughly the halfway point on a drive that should be way more scenic that it is. Taking the train between Portland and Seattle is so much better than driving, especially north along the sound from Olympia.
the words a'a and pahoehoe
Geologic onomatopoeia. I love those words.
Portland is home for me. Seattle's a fun visit. Here's what I like about both:
Portland: don't dismiss Powell's on SW Burnside. That bookstore is extensive and full of hard-to-find books. Find the Half and Half coffeeshop nearby: tiny and full of hipster art students. Cuban food at Pambiche. Beer at Hopworks. Local boutiques on N Mississippi Street (and food, e.g. Miss Delta's cajun cafe, Mexican food at Por Que No). The food carts in downtown Portland have taken over several street blocks, and you can get some of the best, cheapest ethnic food during the workday. Worth the trip downtown. Quirky stores on NE Alberta Street. If you like hippie more than hipster, you can head out to McMenamin's in the Gorge. Portland's easier to get around than Seattle (less traffic, smaller area), and feels more like a group of unique neighborhoods than an urban center. If you can drive to the coast, it's an hour and a half away, and it's wild, rugged and beautiful.
Seattle: go to the San Juan's if you can. Most beautiful natural area I've ever seen, vast and dramatic. The shopping in Seattle's better than Portland. The cherries are better. Seattle is much more urban than Portland, and therefore feels more rushed and cosmopolitan. Portland's known as it's hip, eclectic, younger-sibling city, and I think that's fairly true. The Wenatchee wilderness is a few hours east of Seattle and is beautiful, full of rugged mountainous wilderness. And it has the faux-German village of Leavenworth. I mean, you can't beat that.
175.1: If you're talking Portland to Seattle, it's way past half way.
And the vast suckitude that is buzzing up and down I-5 is all the worse after one has acclimated to a place where it's virtually impossible to drive much over an hour at a stretch.
The Quinault Lodge is nice if you're on the rainforest side of the Olympics. The Olympics are fantastic, and Port Townsend is a cute little town. I think the Alpine Lakes region is even nicer (near Leavenworth) and you can car camp there and hike up the ridge and swim in Icicle Creek if you are warmblooded. Mt. Baker and Mt. Rainier are about 2 hours' drive away from Seattle (in opposite directions) and are both spectacular. You can pick up a book of Washington hikes from the REI that you really can't go wrong with. Victoria is quite cute and the fish and chips are awesome. No one should even think about getting any Chinese food in the PNW unless it's in Vancouver, BC, and it may well be an even more interesting and beautiful city than Seattle.
Without reading any of the above comments, here is my "local" perspective:
PDX has public transit that is to die for. It's also sales tax-free and generally cheaper. And the Portland Saturday Market is a great way to kill hours upon hours. Plus, Voodoo Doughnut! 24 hour sketchiness and where else can you get a voodoo doll-shaped jelly doughnut AND learn Swahilli, AND get married? And enough people seem to have mentioned Powell's....
That being said, I'm in Seattle so I have a much bigger list of "to-do" possibilities for this city, including the EMP/SFM. I interned there last year so if you do decide to play around in SEA, I can send some free passes your way if you want to check it out. Right now there is a traveling Muppet exhibit from the Smithsonian. There is shopping and general craziness in downtown/Capitol Hill (fantastic drag show at Julia's every Fri/Sat night) and more museums and live music venues than you can shake a stick at. If you want, feel free to email me-I am pretty sure I can help find entertaining events in town to match any preferences you might have.
How is the EMP doing? I'd assumed from its unpopularity when I lived there that it was doomed.
