Also, all of these plot-holes occurred to pretty much everyone the first time we saw the new movies. Most real fans just pretend the prequels were never made -- it's the only way, 'gg-d.
The SW movies sucked, so our older, wiser brains will click on that link and then our eyes will quickly glaze over and we will close the window.
Ogged, I take it all back. 6 is right, that is great. And there are lots of great little bits of dry wit: "The original plan does not survive contact with a large Imperial Star Destroyer." Sweet.
All this reminds me of this theory I had, after watching the 2nd Matrix movie, about how that whole series could be tied together without any loose ends. I figured that, after Neo exhibits magical powers at the end of the second movie, that the world we had taken to be 'real' must itself be another level of the same computer program. Also, I decided that all the characters (including Neo) that we had imagined were humans were actually, themselves, computer programs -- the story we had 'learned' in the first two movies was wrong, that the machines had actually lost the apocalyptic battle described in the first movie, and that they were being held captive in a computer-generated world of the humans' own design. This would explain the speech given by the architect at the end of the second movie, and also allow us (well, me) to ignore all the dumb plot-holes from the first movie. But! The third movie pretty much shot that to hell, and I learned to hate the Wachowski Siblings.
Okay, I'll go be a nerd somewhere else now.
Yeah, exactly arthegall. I too thought the Matrix 3 would fix everything--I didn't think they'd be computer programs, necessarily though. And I hoped somehow that it would become clear that the robots want to keep the humans captive to use their brains' processing power---not the stupid "combined with a form of fusion" battery nonsense.
I wish someone would still make a movie about that.
I too thought the Matrix 3 would fix everything
Yeah, I thought that about Hot Bods and Tail Pipe 29, but the joke was on me. I'm beginning to think maybe there just isn't any way to tie the previous 28 together into a coherent narrative. Which sucks.
My favorite reinterpretation of Episode 4 in light of other movies is still this one (10 min video, some language but mostly SFW). Favorite scene: the trench run.
WHY WOULD THE MACHINES USE HUMANS AS FUEL WHEN IT WOULD BE SO MUCH EASIER TO USE COWS - FOR ONE THING, CREATING A SIMULATED WORLD WOULD BE EASY oh never mind
I refused to see either the third Matrix or the last Star Wars because it was obvious by then that they were just fucking around to see how egregious they could get and still have people pay to see the next installment.
Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense.
I guess he thought about it, all right.
I believe this is what you find when you look up "fanwanking" in the Great Big Science Fiction Dictionary.
re: 15
Exactly. To this day, I still haven't seen the third Matrix -- because the second one was so awful* -- or the last two of the Star Wars prequels -- because the first prequel was one of the worst movies I've ever seen.
* One of my wife's colleagues said to me, in all seriousness, that I didn't like the second Matrix movie because I didn't understand it, and that 'you really need, like, two philosophy degrees to understand it' ...
19: Give Reloaded another go. It's not so bad. It's the third in the series that hurts.
Nah, Reloaded is crap. Here are my reactions at the time.
I always liked the David Edelstein review of Reloaded -- he panned it with sufficient ferocity that I still remember it these years later.
"This is the cue for a high-camp montage: a Fellini-esque slow-motion orgy intercut with Neo and Trinity making the beast with two backs. That sound you hear is Cecil B. DeMille whacking off in his grave."
Which is great.
I thought Matrix: Reloaded was so bad that I left the cinema feeling deeply insulted. Like I'd been shat on ...
Even the make-up and lighting are bad in Reloaded.
I watched the 3rd Matrix movie because skipping it is like turning away once the slow-motion footage of the train wreck is rolling and already halfway done. I had to see the ending in all its glorious wretchedness to complete the experience because I am an American and this is what we do: we rubberneck. I was having to cover my mouth to keep from laughing hysterically by the end.
I found Episode III tolerable, in part because I am not especially a fan of Star Wars any more than the average 25-40 year old so I really didn't have anything invested in it and in part because, despite that, I was just so desperate to be capable of liking one of them that I could forgive almost anything.
Yeah, Episode I had me watching aghast in horror. Not seen Episode II or III.
Me neither. Episode II was so ghastly that I just gave up and decided to pretend like the three prequels didn't exist.
Episode III had its moments. It had a couple of good lines. It also had the long spaces between those which inexplicably were still filled with what for lack of a better term I will call "movie." It was an election year*, though, and I was full of hope and easily suckered by the good lines, which seemed so obviously intended for our current times. It was also a lot darker than the other two, which appeals to the gothy core of my heart.
--
* Oh wait, I forgot, it is now and always an election year and we will never again be allowed any respite from the cycle.
OT, but tangential to 30: last night I saw an "OBAMA 08" bumper sticker in a parking lot in RTP.
The colours in Episode III were a great improvement over the previous two. Most of it was in a rather lovely dark red. The flower planet was pretty. If you focused on the parts of the screen not cluttered with talky muppets and Hayden Christensen it was quite pleasant.
talky muppets and Hayden Christensen
But you repeat yourself.
The Matrix sequels and the Star Wars prequels fail for the exact same bewildering reason; the creators proved to be less imaginative than their fans.
There are a lot of franchises that should just be turned over to the fans. Star Trek would be a good one. It would require an act of congress, but it would be in the nation's interest.
It's nice to see I'm not the only one who stopped after Star Wars I and Matrix 2.
Speaking of SciFi epics, does anyone here watch Battlestar Galactica?
Gods yes, though we're six episodes behind. I love the show but find preparing to watch an episode to be an uphill climb.
BSG is the best thing on TV right now. Baltar is one of the best drawn villains ever. The combination of cowardice and self-deception neatly matches the way most real life assholes think.
There are a lot of franchises that should just be turned over to the fans.
I can't help imagining Orpheus torn apart by the Maenads...
While we're talkin TV, has anybody else here seen It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia? It's on the FX Channel, so I fear I may be one of maybe 300 people in the country watching it, which would make me sad because it absolutely slays me.
41.--Yes, I suppose he's demonstrated that rather conclusively now.
Don't let them lie to you: Ep. III is TERRIBLE. That cannot be emphasized enough.
And I have sufficiently low-brow tastes that I enjoy Matrix Reloaded.
This IS brilliant. It doesn't patch the plot holes or rationalize them away; it gives them a reason for being. It doesn't ignore the disguised racism of the Star Wars universe; it uses the racism to explain how the despised races are able to operate under cover. This makes me like Star Wars again, because even George Lucas doesn't know what R2, Yoda, and Chewy are up to. They are using him for a front man too. Damn, they are good.
Why, I wonder, does my workplace filter not let me see a website of Star Wars plot holes?
Is my IT guy a devout Lucasian?
Is my filter oversensitive to the word "holes"?
Are these plot holes the marginal musings of a porn site operator?